The Way

[RayPlan]

Anyone who saw my first swing thread knows that I had some issues going down rabbit holes and losing my way.

 

Since then, I've learned a lot, and I've discovered an approach that may be the key to unlocking the entire golf swing. 

 

It boils down to this: the point after impact, about P7.5, is where the clubhead is furthest from the body. If you have the club in the right orientation at that point, you can work backwards to trace the necessary club orientation through impact, back to P6, the final gateway of control before impact. P7.5 is the key reference point. Since there are limited ways you can get to the desired orientation at P7.5, this creates a sort of funnel for the swing. A funnel has some forgiveness, the entrance can be tightened up over time as the movements become more precise. 

 

This may be the solution to the problem of improving mechanics while also being able to play by feel. 

 

Comparison of October 2024 vs. June 2025

 

My swing has been improving as I've developed these ideas, but it's still a ways off from where it could be. I'll be sharing my journey here and providing more on the underlying ideas, which I'm happy to discuss and answer questions.

[joedizzy1978]

28 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

Anyone who saw my first swing thread knows that I had some issues going down rabbit holes and losing my way.

 

Since then, I've learned a lot, and I've discovered an approach that may be the key to unlocking the entire golf swing. 

 

It boils down to this: the point after impact, about P7.5, is where the clubhead is furthest from the body. If you have the club in the right orientation at that point, you can work backwards to trace the necessary club orientation through impact, back to P6, the final gateway of control before impact. P7.5 is the key reference point. Since there are limited ways you can get to the desired orientation at P7.5, this creates a sort of funnel for the swing. A funnel has some forgiveness, the entrance can be tightened up over time as the movements become more precise. 

 

This may be the solution to the problem of improving mechanics while also being able to play by feel. 

 

Comparison of October 2024 vs. June 2025

 

My swing has been improving as I've developed these ideas, but it's still a ways off from where it could be. I'll be sharing my journey here and providing more on the underlying ideas, which I'm happy to discuss and answer questions.

 

The premise has merit as I’ve reverse engineered things using a similar ideology.  Curious as to what you come up with without having an extensive background in instruction.  Willing to explore and test is important, as is willing to question what others say are rules.  Enjoy the journey.  

[sundaypins]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

 It boils down to this: the point after impact, about P7.5, is where the clubhead is furthest from the body. If you have the club in the right orientation at that point, you can work backwards to trace the necessary club orientation through impact, back to P6, the final gateway of control before impact. P7.5 is the key reference point. Since there are limited ways you can get to the desired orientation at P7.5, this creates a sort of funnel for the swing. A funnel has some forgiveness, the entrance can be tightened up over time as the movements become more precise. 

 

And after impact is where many greats felt the swing was the fastest, and for good reason.  If that exit funnel presents any type of obstruction the brain can attempt moving the fastest part of the swing feel back toward the ball and the toe of the club loses its mind, it knows.    Don't block the exit signs are posted for good reason.   

 

43 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

 Willing to explore and test is important, as is willing to question what others say are rules.  Enjoy the journey.  

 

+1

[GoGoErky]

Are you using p7.5 as a starting point for the swing in drills? or is there a position you’re aiming to be in at that point during the swing?

Edited July 9 by GoGoErky

[getitdaily]

Ray, are you saying impact is all that matters?

[Pnwpingi210]

[TheDeanAbides]

Are you using P7.5 in video as a reference or are you trying to contrive P7.5? 

[biker74]

Your before and after would make 95% of the posters on here ecstatic to look that way.Do what works for you. Many of us need a heck of a lot more than impact and post impact speed. Be thankful of what you have.And don’t forget to work on putting chipping and pitching 

[TheDeanAbides]

Regarding your swing, Ray, you're doing so many things so much better. What are you working on right now? I think you're still getting a bit deep with your arms, but it's so much better than before. Well done.

[RayPlan]

7 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Are you using P7.5 in video as a reference or are you trying to contrive P7.5? 

Sure, so P7.5 is contrived in the sense that the condition is being artificially created as a starting reference point, but by reverse engineering the movements necessary to get there, it becomes a dynamic part of the actual swing. 

 

The idea is that you must first know what the destination is before you can actually create a motion that arrives there as a natural consequence of what came before. Because the path from P6 to P7.5 passes so quickly, it's unlikely that one could dynamically arrive in the correct position through active manipulations.

[jonsnow]

Isn't reverse engineering how we got all that alien technology from the UFOs we recovered at Roswell in the late 1940s?

[Pnwpingi210]

46 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

Sure, so P7.5 is contrived in the sense that the condition is being artificially created as a starting reference point, but by reverse engineering the movements necessary to get there, it becomes a dynamic part of the actual swing. 

 

The idea is that you must first know what the destination is before you can actually create a motion that arrives there as a natural consequence of what came before. Because the path from P6 to P7.5 passes so quickly, it's unlikely that one could dynamically arrive in the correct position through active manipulations.

Not going to lie.  I read this as if it were wrote by the soothsayer….located in a cabin high in the Himalayas.  With a British accent and the ability to levitate and bend a spoon….

 

[Pnwpingi210]

I will add - you’ve made more progress form a swing development standpoint in the last 6 months than most will of the course of their golfing life so well done!

[sundaypins]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

The idea is that you must first know what the destination is before you can actually create a motion that arrives there as a natural consequence of what came before. Because the path from P6 to P7.5 passes so quickly, it's unlikely that one could dynamically arrive in the correct position through active manipulations.

 

You have discovered the first of 7 symbols needed for access to the other side of the portal. 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

Sure, so P7.5 is contrived in the sense that the condition is being artificially created as a starting reference point, but by reverse engineering the movements necessary to get there, it becomes a dynamic part of the actual swing. 

 

The idea is that you must first know what the destination is before you can actually create a motion that arrives there as a natural consequence of what came before. Because the path from P6 to P7.5 passes so quickly, it's unlikely that one could dynamically arrive in the correct position through active manipulations.

Okay, so it's an end goal rather than you're trying to steer the club into that position. Gotcha.

[vernon]

Good work!

[jonsnow]

13 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

You have discovered the first of 7 symbols needed for access to the other side of the portal. 

Did you mean 7.5 symbols?

[virtuoso]

46 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

You have discovered the first of 7 symbols needed for access to the other side of the portal. 

I think Rayplan has already snuck across the portal with a forged digital ID.

[TheDeanAbides]

5 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I think Rayplan has already snuck across the portal with a forged digital ID.

Check his trench coat for UZIs and sunglasses. If he starts spinning in the air and climbing the walls...

[jonsnow]

It's RayPlan's simulation, we're all just living in it...

Edited July 9 by jonsnow

[RayPlan]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Okay, so it's an end goal rather than you're trying to steer the club into that position. Gotcha.

A bit of both, actually. I AM steering it right now, but the goal is to be able to take my hands off the steering wheel at some point. Not unlike other practice to develop specific movements. 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, RayPlan said:

A bit of both, actually. I AM steering it right now, but the goal is to be able to take my hands off the steering wheel at some point. Not unlike other practice to develop specific movements. 

I’m not sure that will work except at veeeeeeery slow speed. I would argue that there’s little value in doing something in practice that you don’t ever want to do in a real swing. 

[wagolfer7]

What's the indication of improvement?  

 

Scores aren't considered anymore.  Ball flight is often said to be ignored.  So is it just how you look on camera?  

 

At some point are you really improving at the game of golf if you aren't actually hitting the ball better with results included and your score getting lower?  

[TheDeanAbides]

5 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

What's the indication of improvement?  

 

Scores aren't considered anymore.  Ball flight is often said to be ignored.  So is it just how you look on camera?  

 

At some point are you really improving at the game of golf if you aren't actually hitting the ball better with results included and your score getting lower?  

As I understand it, this mission is primarily about changing Ray's swing. He rarely gets to golf, but this is what he has time to do, so he's doing it. 

[dpc]

Well done, @RayPlan.  Just the thumbnail of the before and after video illustrates for me the folly of trying to fix things yourself.  I would look at your before setup and think, "it looks OK", but not be able to point out where it should be improved.  But put it next to the after, and wow, that is a remarkably improved set up.

[Nickc]

Are you sure the p7.5 position you are using is correct?

 

[joedizzy1978]

21 minutes ago, Nickc said:

Are you sure the p7.5 position you are using is correct?

 

Lets say it isnt. Theres value in that as the amount he'll learn from adjusting that "p7.5" will be immeasurable.  On the other hand, let say it is, then potential for improvement over a shorter period of time is a possibility.........but will he learn as much?  Imop, theres so much potential positive that can result in his p7.5 being incorrect early on. Of course, he'll need a large amount of discipline as the majority tend to dislike those who attempt to color outside the lines.  Not attacking your question, as they are important.....merely providing a perspective from an individual who has experience performing the OP's stated task. 

Edited July 9 by joedizzy1978

[Pnwpingi210]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

As I understand it, this mission is primarily about changing Ray's swing. He rarely gets to golf, but this is what he has time to do, so he's doing it. 

Mac ogrady-esque

[RayPlan]

4 hours ago, wagolfer7 said:

What's the indication of improvement?  

 

Scores aren't considered anymore.  Ball flight is often said to be ignored.  So is it just how you look on camera?  

 

At some point are you really improving at the game of golf if you aren't actually hitting the ball better with results included and your score getting lower?  

The measure of improvement is to step up to the ball, visualize the shot, then manifest the vision. The manifestation will never be perfect, but it will be better more often with focused practice.

 

The rest follows naturally from that simple concept. 

[wagolfer7]

20 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

The measure of improvement is to step up to the ball, visualize the shot, then manifest the vision. The manifestation will never be perfect, but it will be better more often with focused practice.

 

The rest follows naturally from that simple concept. 

There is nothing simple with golf. You can practice all you want and still not improve.