Give the People what they want

[rsballer10]

4 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Now all the info will be solid and has proven to be effective, but the marketing makes me sick because it’s what people buy

IMO don't feel bad for one second. You've given away information for free that's more valuable than most paid information.

[BSI99]

6 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

If you mentioned the name "Short Game Chef" to Tom Seguto, he would say, "Who?"

Is that the guy who does all his videos like 90s VHS's?

[virtuoso]

2 minutes ago, bortass said:

If I watch a bunch of high level/generic tips, I can pretend/delude myself into thinking that I'm doing something about my game. I get the slight feel good about myself that is meaningless in the long run. If I really wanted to improve, I'd have to watch more in depth videos and actually think about it and learn something which is not easy mode. Like many have said there's gotta be a magic/silver bullet in social media somewhere! Overall most people are lazy....

But that initial hit off the crack pipe is good, no?

[virtuoso]

Just now, BSI99 said:

Is that the guy who does all his videos like 90s VHS's?

How dare you, sir?

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, virtuoso said:

No, they want a quick, easy secret fix that no one has ever mentioned that will allow them to try it the first time and suddenly hit it as straight and long as a tour pro……because after all, it is “the secret the tour pros never told you.”

 

If I’m a 14.7 hdcp, I want that.

I see. Well. I agree with that.  
 

it’s ALL just part of the dystopian nightmare that the internet brings.  The robuts are next.  Enjoy golf  while we can .  Tomorrow we die.

 

i went on a D1 college tour yesterday with my son.  Had an hour long meeting with the track coach before the schools tour. We talked at length.  And when I mentioned “ culture of the team “. It was as if I slapped the man in the face. My son and I have spoken at length about its importance. He values it possibly more than me. This coach said “ well. The members just do their thing … we get together to travel , and that’s about it “.  Hard pass bro. Don’t care how much $ you’re offering.  What’s he’s describing is dickish cliques and lack of leadership , direction and planing … all of society is this way now. Blows my mind.  And yet. Somehow I’m the one that can’t monetize himself anymore. It’s a trip.  The new “ honest “ is to be as dishonest as possible…. People do not want to hear the truth.  To be held accountable.  

[MidwestHacker]

23 minutes ago, BSI99 said:

I actually think the short game instruction stuff is in a good spot. Parker is really the only one I see making those videos on youtube but his stuff is pretty good and widely applicable. 

Dan Grieve is also putting out good stuff on short game. 

 

I wish Brad Faxon hadnt given up posting Youtube videos, his insights on putting were insanely good. Every once in a while a big youtuber will have a lesson with him and post it and it always has lots of really good stuff from one of the best putters of all time. 

[virtuoso]

4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I see. Well. I agree with that.  
 

it’s ALL just part of the dystopian nightmare that the internet brings.  The robuts are next.  Enjoy golf  while we can .  Tomorrow we die.

 

i went on a D1 college tour yesterday with my son.  Had an hour long meeting with the track coach before the schools tour. We talked at length.  And when I mentioned “ culture of the team “. It was as if I slapped the man in the face. My son and I have spoken at length about its importance. He values it possibly more than me. This coach said “ well. The members just do their thing … we get together to travel , and that’s about it “.  Hard pass bro. Don’t care how much $ you’re offering.  What’s he’s describing is dickish cliques and lack of leadership , direction and planing … all of society is this way now. Blows my mind.  And yet. Somehow I’m the one that can’t monetize himself anymore. It’s a trip.  The new “ honest “ is to be as dishonest as possible…. People do not want to hear the truth.  To be held accountable.  

Don't let Baby Groc hear you say stuff like that. You'll be logged with a "Resistance" ID.

[BSI99]

3 minutes ago, MidwestHacker said:

Dan Grieve is also putting out good stuff on short game. 

 

I wish Brad Faxon hadnt given up posting Youtube videos, his insights on putting were insanely good. Every once in a while a big youtuber will have a lesson with him and post it and it always has lots of really good stuff from one of the best putters of all time. 

Good shout, forgot about Grieve. Seems like there's room in the market if anyone wants to make clickbaity short game instruction. "Never duff a chip again!" and it's just playing hot bullets off the back of your stance with a super hooded face. 

[TheDeanAbides]

11 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

But that initial hit off the crack pipe is good, no?

But not as good as...

[TheDeanAbides]

4 minutes ago, BSI99 said:

Good shout, forgot about Grieve. Seems like there's room in the market if anyone wants to make clickbaity short game instruction. "Never duff a chip again!" and it's just playing hot bullets off the back of your stance with a super hooded face. 

Where's that video? Asking for a friend...

[virtuoso]

2 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

But not as good as...

That's how some of the Grovelers showed up and Legends Bar and Grill.

[Ty_Guy]

YouTube has always been an interesting beast.

 

I'm lucky to have grown up with YouTube's many evolutions while having who knows how many hobbies over the years that all have bits to learn from YouTube. Early YouTube, and internet blogs for that matter, was more about specialists in their fields sharing what they've learned over the years than it is now about the social media shift over the past decade. If you can spot the YouTubers who already have an established career and then decided to share their knowledge on the internet, those are always the winners. The YouTubers who operate in the "content generation" sphere are lousy for advice. If you can discern between the two types, there is good info to be had out there. If not, I guarantee you'll have a Hack Motion, Swing Buddy, ProSendr, Viktory Insoles, and a Tour Striker arriving at your door soon.

 

YouTube is free. If you feel like you're a customer, maybe it's time to watch a different channel.

[virtuoso]

How is this not great content?? Kinda bummed i can't get into the members only content.

 

[wagolfer7]

I think you guys are looking at it too deep.  It's the internet.  What do people do right away when they don't know what something is, where something is or how to do something?  They will Google / YouTube it.  

 

This is only going to become more prevalent with AI.  

 

I finished my basement 13 years ago by watching YouTube videos on sheet rocking, drywall, electric, etc.  I didn't know anything about that kind of stuff.  Did I do it as well as a professional?  No.  Did it take me 5-6 times as long?  Yes.  But at the end of the day I got it done and for less than hiring it out.  

 

It's no different with golf, other sports and all kinds of things.  People will first look to do it on their own because of the information available online. 

 

It's not because they don't want to know the truth.  It's because that is how a lot of things are trying to be learned now.   

[joedizzy1978]

3 hours ago, virtuoso said:

I think the current trend in golf instruction YouTube/instagram content is exactly correct. The people don’t want what they need, they want what they want. 
 

Tell me I’m wrong.

Current trend?  How about always been the trend. Eg. Instructors have historically followed the half hour/hourly method.  If they were truly giving the students what they need, wouldn’t it be standard to communicate to the prospective student the minimum number of hours in order to achieve desired change/level of play?  The same individuals who detest the marketing will also have no issue thumping their chests about how swiftly they “solved” the issue.  Diagnosing and solving are two different animals but speaking as if they’re the same lends to the same style of get rich quick marketing.  The people in this forum aren’t any less responsible for the issue than the “bad” people outside…..we are all complicit.  Enjoy the taste of that accountability pill as it goes down.  

Edited July 10 by joedizzy1978

[bladehunter]

8 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

How is this not great content?? Kinda bummed i can't get into the members only content.

 

I’m convinced that guy is a spook.  He’s one of the ones watching us 

[virtuoso]

8 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Current trend?  How about always been the trend. Eg. Instructors have historically followed the half hour/hourly method.  If they were truly giving the students what they need, wouldn’t it be standard to communicate to the prospective student the minimum number of hours in order to achieve desired change/level of play?  The same individuals who detest the marketing will also have no issue thumping their chests about how swiftly they “solved” the issue.  Diagnosing and solving are two different animals but speaking as if they’re the same lends to the same style of get rich quick marketing.  The people in this forum aren’t any less complicit than the “bad” people outside…..we are all complicit.  Enjoy the taste of that accountability pill as it goes down.  

Taste it!

[virtuoso]

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I’m convinced that guy is a spook.  He’s one of the ones watching us 

If so, we're all fine.

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Instructors have historically followed the half hour/hourly method. If they were truly giving the students what they need, wouldn’t it be standard to communicate to the prospective student the minimum number of hours in order to achieve desired change/level of play?

 

Not sure what you're saying since… it's going to take months for the desired change/level of play to take hold. Should I have only one to three golf students a year, and each one moves in with me and pays me about $60k each so I can spend time with them until they get it?

 

Communication doesn't have to be in person. You can find the "solution" in an hour (or even five minutes), then spend some time making sure the student understands what they need to do, then send them on their way to go practice and work on that "thing."

 

No?

[bladehunter]

9 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

If so, we're all fine.

Very true. He’s a few bricks shy of a load. For sure.  

[virtuoso]

5 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Very true. He’s a few bricks shy of a load. For sure.  

Best content in the business though. No one can argue that.

[MidwestHacker]

36 minutes ago, Ty_Guy said:

YouTube has always been an interesting beast.

 

I'm lucky to have grown up with YouTube's many evolutions while having who knows how many hobbies over the years that all have bits to learn from YouTube. Early YouTube, and internet blogs for that matter, was more about specialists in their fields sharing what they've learned over the years than it is now about the social media shift over the past decade. If you can spot the YouTubers who already have an established career and then decided to share their knowledge on the internet, those are always the winners. The YouTubers who operate in the "content generation" sphere are lousy for advice. If you can discern between the two types, there is good info to be had out there. If not, I guarantee you'll have a Hack Motion, Swing Buddy, ProSendr, Viktory Insoles, and a Tour Striker arriving at your door soon.

 

YouTube is free. If you feel like you're a customer, maybe it's time to watch a different channel.

Hack Motion seems like it would actually be useful for self guided use, but maybe Im just easily sold on tech. 

[joedizzy1978]

.

Edited July 10 by joedizzy1978

[joedizzy1978]

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Not sure what you're saying since… it's going to take months for the desired change/level of play to take hold. Should I have only one to three golf students a year, and each one moves in with me and pays me about $60k each so I can spend time with them until they get it?

 

Communication doesn't have to be in person. You can find the "solution" in an hour (or even five minutes), then spend some time making sure the student understands what they need to do, then send them on their way to go practice and work on that "thing."

 

No?

When a prospective client walks in the door, how many instructors provide a pre interview before jumping into the “solution”?  I understand you wouldn’t know exactly, but your years in the business would allow you an educated approximate.  If you don’t bother to uncover how much time/effort the client can provide, is it not irresponsible and misleading?  If a new client walks through the door and you discover they wont be able to put forth the time and effort to implement the change/obtain goal how do you respond?  What is your opinion on how instructors as a whole respond?  Saying you’d have to change your business model to three clients per year at 60,000 says youre quite aware that the business isnt quite honest, no?  That’s my point.

[BSI99]

Every new lesson I've had starts with the instructor asking me about myself and my game. You can glean a lot from that conversation. If someone tells you they're a bogey golfer who gets out 1-2 times a week, well you can build the lesson around the fact that they probably won't be able to put 5-10 hours a week into practice. 

[bladehunter]

24 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Best content in the business though. No one can argue that.

🤣.  Is that really true ?  I haven’t followed his following.  Does he really get more eyes?  If so that’s both hilarious AND sad. 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Yeah, i don't know how it works. Lets just say "forever." I think when he said 2 days, he was talking about when he made 20 racks for all the guys in his Bible Study group.

 
So rest on the third day now?

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

When a prospective client walks in the door, how many instructors provide a pre interview before jumping into the “solution”?

 

I don't know (nor do you), because I haven't polled every instructor out there, or even a statistically significant number of them.

 

All of the good ones I know do, though. So 100%. And it's often not even during the first lesson, but BEFORE that, when they're scheduling or just asking questions before scheduling their first lesson.

 

14 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

If you don’t bother to uncover how much time/effort the client can provide, is it not irresponsible and misleading?

 

Sounds like you're making (negative) judgments based on a massive assumption that instructors just immediately jump to a solution without any conversation with the student.

 

14 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

If a new client walks through the door and you discover they wont be able to put forth the time and effort to implement the change/obtain goal how do you respond?

 

These feel like the type of questions you should ask before the assumptions and judgments, no?

 

Part of my interview is to ask how much they have time to practice, and what facilities or things (a net in a garage, 100 acres, a range 2 minutes away, etc.) they have, and part of my notes at the end includes how they can do as little as 3 minutes, 5 times a day and get better at golf, and it doesn't have to be a huge time commitment.

 

14 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Saying you’d have to change your business model to three clients per year at 60,000 says youre quite aware that the business isnt quite honest, no?  That’s my point.

 

I don't know that you've made a point.

 

I will say I slightly misread your original post, though. I took it as having an issue with the standard 30 minutes or hour, and that the instructor should communicate with the student until they achieve the desired level of play. My mistake - I see now you were saying that the instructor should communicate how much work it will take the student to make the change.

 

I do that. So do the other good instructors I know.

 

So please tell me how your post isn't based on a massive and quite often incorrect assumption that instructors don't do those things?

[MonteScheinblum]

My next instragm post

 

Why do you suck at golf?

 

Video plays…

 

You don’t put in enough effort

You’re uncoordinated 

You’re stupid

You’re ugly

……and your mom dresses you funny.

 

Aim right, put all your weight on your left foot, anchor it there, strengthen the grip, roll your wrists just before impact and go buy a new driver.

 

How long before I can buy a Ferrari?

Edited July 10 by MonteScheinblum

[swh0507]

5 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

My next instragm post

 

 

Why do you suck at golf?

 

Video plays…

 

You don’t put in enough effort

You’re uncoordinated 

You’re stupid

You’re ugly

……and you’re mom dresses you funny.

 

Aim right, put all your weight on your left foot, anchor it there, strengthen the grip, roll your wrists just before impact and go buy a new driver.

 

How long before I can buy a Ferrari?

Well never if you keep forgetting to tell them to "Like, comment and subscribe."