Give the People what they want

[virtuoso]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Not till you said it. Thanks a million 🤨.    I find that the sure fire way to remove an ear worm like that is with the baby shark song.  Or Jenny.  Talk about crossing some generational lines.  My brain is a messed up place.  But spice girls ain’t staying !  No matter what the cost.  😂

Now you guys triggered my Mossy Nissan worm....

[jonsnow]

46 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Wrong, in the sense that you're assuming people want out of ignorance. Prudent people won't listen to anyone that thinks they know what we need without talking to us first.

I guess you know a lot more prudent people than I do.

[MonteScheinblum]

There are two phrases that are taken as gospel and it’s the main reason why the vast majority of golfers are nowhere near what their skill and effort level dictate. 
 

1.  There is more than one way to swing a golf club.

2.  I’m entitled to my opinion.

 

Put these two together and you have a morass of people promoting 🐶💩

 

On number 1, that’s only partially true.  Nearly all effective  golf swings adhere to a fairly short list of parameters and those parameters have a range.  The length of list of parameters and the range of acceptability shortens as more and more data becomes available.  Yes there is more than one way to swing a club, but the majority of things said about what happens in a good swing are objectively wrong.

 

On number 2, also partially true.  You are can say anything you want, but if you say your opinion is there are only 3 hours in a day, Russia is smaller than Rhode Island and Rosanne bar is the most attractive woman in the world….no, you are not entitled to your opinion and many of the things said on the golf swing on this forum, on social media and I’m sorry to say, lesson tees across the world…are as bad as those 3 ridiculous examples I gave. 
 

On topic.  Every effective swing I have ever measured with a driver has an initial shift to the right.  I would bet so would the individual who is the central subject in this thread.

 

So while my two numbered points at the top seem like absolutes, they are far from it.  

[MonteScheinblum]

8 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Now you guys triggered my Mossy Nissan worm....

This is a family show.  Keep it down and in your pants.

[Pepperturbo]

8 minutes ago, jonsnow said:

I guess you know a lot more prudent people than I do.

Maybe prudent should be replaced with responsible. LOL 

[RayPlan]

3 hours ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Current trend?  How about always been the trend. Eg. Instructors have historically followed the half hour/hourly method.  If they were truly giving the students what they need, wouldn’t it be standard to communicate to the prospective student the minimum number of hours in order to achieve desired change/level of play?  The same individuals who detest the marketing will also have no issue thumping their chests about how swiftly they “solved” the issue.  Diagnosing and solving are two different animals but speaking as if they’re the same lends to the same style of get rich quick marketing.  The people in this forum aren’t any less responsible for the issue than the “bad” people outside…..we are all complicit.  Enjoy the taste of that accountability pill as it goes down.  

[iacas]

30 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

If we’re both stating our opinions, and I assume, and you assume, am I the only the bad guy… or can we agree its ok when we’re stating opinions based on our experiences?

 

I don't think I've made any assumptions (except that you've not been in the golf industry for over a century; not gonna lie, I'm feeling pretty safe about that one).

 

30 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Sometimes, a question is merely posed because the person asking is interested in your response.

 

I'm generally not a fan of meta discussions.

 

30 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Yes, people dont pay for “stuff” here and its possible some are doing so out of the goodness of their heart… its also possible they’re doing it to filter potential clientele to their online instruction business. Because of that possibility, it’s not silly to want to see interview questions asked from time to time.

 

These aren't lessons, so judging them as if they are is folly.

 

30 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

I used the incorrect word, then the correct word…..I am fallible!  Please dont throw me out with the bathwater. 🙂

 

Not sure what this is in reference to. Hopefully, your "over a century" in the golf was your mistake. If so, regardless of how long you've been in the golf industry… it's almost irrelevant. Your experiences matter a little, what you actually say and do matter a good bit.

[BSI99]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Wow.  
 

it does make me wonder though.  I think I heard the rule of thumb is somewhere around $1k earned from YouTube for every 150k views.  Assuming that’s correct , he’s probably not making that much money.  I guess he could be making $4k a month before taxes . But I’d have to see the paperwork to believe it. In my opinion, it’s not a great deal for the amount of hours he puts into the production of that dumpster fire. But I also don’t desire to be famous.  So that might be my disconnect on why it’s worth it. He may enjoy the attention.  
 

It’s all fools gold in my opinion anyway.  I know a political personality personally ,that once had 6 million subscribers before moving platforms.   It took a 20 person team - full time employees - to Produce it and track the stories , and finances.  In the end. He told me several times that a job managing a Costco would have paid the same to his personal pocket.  

He's also pretty popular on instagram I think. And I'm sure the youtube drives a lot of in person lessons and he's able to charge more per hour than he otherwise would. 

[virtuoso]

1 minute ago, BSI99 said:

He's also pretty popular on instagram I think. And I'm sure the youtube drives a lot of in person lessons and he's able to charge more per hour than he otherwise would. 

Yeah, I'm sure Seguto is killing it, and rightly so.

[joedizzy1978]

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I don't think I've made any assumptions (except that you've not been in the golf industry for over a century; not gonna lie, I'm feeling pretty safe about that one).

 

 

I'm generally not a fan of meta discussions.

 

 

These aren't lessons, so judging them as if they are is folly.

 

 

Not sure what this is in reference to. Hopefully, your "over a century" in the golf was your mistake. If so, regardless of how long you've been in the golf industry… it's almost irrelevant. Your experiences matter a little, what you actually say and do matter a good bit.

Hoping those in this forum and industry follow through on what they say they do.

[virtuoso]

This one is crazy good. He leverages Dechambeau's power moves to bring in the audience but then also adds to it by showing you the missing piece that is hardly ever discussed. This first move is the thing that really sets the stage for amateurs to tap into the power that we see Bryson use on TV every week. Who wouldn't want to watch this?

 

[bladehunter]

19 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Yeah, I'm sure Seguto is killing it, and rightly so.

Hell.  Why don’t I just do the same 🤣.  I’ll go the Dave Ramsey route though. I’ll charge $20k for lunch and 18 holes with me. A BLT while I repeat “ it’s all in the hips “ to 3 students as  I proceed to shame them into betting me $1k per side , and then as they’re arranging their Venmo payments.  I’ll drop a “ bow to your sensei” for good measure.
 

 

  

[virtuoso]

17 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Hoping those in this forum and industry follow through on what they say they do.

Hey, looking at your avatar, do you swing left and right handed like Phillip MacClelland O'Grady?

[bladehunter]

15 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Hoping those in this forum and industry follow through on what they say they do.

I think it’s very very safe that the ones here do.  Extremely confident in that statement. 
 

BUT. I do know what you speak of.  My next door neighbor is now a master pga pro. All the perks of seniority etc. and I love the guy. Played thousand of rounds with him. Truly a good stick .  In a sea of teaching pros he’s one of the best I’ve seen in person.  But. No chance I’d take a lesson from him. Or let someone I cared about take one. I’ve even quietly guided an athletic young man away from him via his dad.    He literally gives a lesson like chubbs on happy Gilmore.  He’s so  jaded from years of hopeless swings , that he just cannot engage unless it’s the rare talent that happens in front of him. 
 

I’ve seen a few more give lessons like that.  Stand  and talk to a buddy on the range while  you hit balls. That’s not a lesson.  That’s collecting $50 for a bucket of balls.  So your point is valid. But I do believe it’s very rare anymore.  Most younger Guys are great about the bedside manner.   And like I said. The guys here - zero doubt.  Most of them have given me more free time in private than I deserve.  

[sundaypins]

@virtuoso

 

The video from Saguto.

 

 

The kid is close with his message but is missing why the chain reaction occurs, what holds it together.   I would argue this might be the ultimate swing construct-model for WRX.   It's not two turns and a swish, it's one flexion between two extensions, but that is not why it works either.  This is what people need to hear instead of some of the other noise. 

Edited July 10 by sundaypins

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

@virtuoso

 

The video from Saguto.

 

I think he knows. 🤣

 

 

[Ty_Webb]

6 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

We live in a microwave society.  We don't want to go that low and slow overnight brisket in the smoker. Microwave is cheap and fast and smokers and brisket are slow and expensive . Both and result in culinary disasters but people accept the cheap disasters. The expensive ones will scar them.

 

Microwave done right is almost an accident but results are still meh. Smoker brisket done right is amazing.Same thing for golf and other educational products..

 

Edited July 10 by Ty_Webb

[NosajNeelik]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

This one is crazy good. He leverages Dechambeau's power moves to bring in the audience but then also adds to it by showing you the missing piece that is hardly ever discussed. This first move is the thing that really sets the stage for amateurs to tap into the power that we see Bryson use on TV every week. Who wouldn't want to watch this?

 

I get into that position he talks about and it’s not pretty 

[joedizzy1978]

3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I think it’s very very safe that the ones here do.  Extremely confident in that statement. 
 

BUT. I do know what you speak of.  My next door neighbor is now a master pga pro. All the perks of seniority etc. and I love the guy. Played thousand of rounds with him. Truly a good stick .  In a sea of teaching pros he’s one of the best I’ve seen in person.  But. No chance I’d take a lesson from him. Or let someone I cared about take one. I’ve even quietly guided an athletic young man away from him via his dad.    He literally gives a lesson like chubbs on happy Gilmore.  He’s so  jaded from years of hopeless swings , that he just cannot engage unless it’s the rare talent that happens in front of him. 
 

I’ve seen a few more give lessons like that.  Stand  and talk to a buddy on the range while  you hit balls. That’s not a lesson.  That’s collecting $50 for a bucket of balls.  So your point is valid. But I do believe it’s very rare anymore.  Most younger Guys are great about the bedside manner.   And like I said. The guys here - zero doubt.  Most of them have given me more free time in private than I deserve.  

I appreciate your post and whatever we happen to disagree on, isnt worth the argument.  If my opinion is correct, I don’t stand to gain anything personally.  I hope it’s less than I believe and continues to diminish with each day that moves forward.  

[golferdude54]

YouTube killed how the search function used to be.
 

It used to be you searched for somewhat obscure tour player’s swing from the present or past and the video results would output that. 
 

Now instead you got “CAN I BEAT SCOTTIE SCHEFFLER IF I GET 5 STROKES?” by Grant Horvat that’s completely unrelated to the search.

 

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Chanting... stupid tips! Stupid tips!

[RayPlan]

1 minute ago, golferdude54 said:

YouTube killed how the search function used to be.
 

It used to be you searched for somewhat obscure tour player’s swing from the present or past and the video results would output that. 
 

Now instead you got “CAN I BEAT SCOTTIE SCHEFFLER IF I GET 5 STROKES?” by Grant Horvat that’s completely unrelated to the search.

 

It's horrible. And you also get the AI generated slop about golf in there. You can spot them from a mile away

[virtuoso]

3 hours ago, sundaypins said:

@virtuoso

 

The video from Saguto.

 

 

The kid is close with his message but is missing why the chain reaction occurs, what holds it together.   I would argue this might be the ultimate swing construct-model for WRX.   It's not two turns and a swish, it's one flexion between two extensions, but that is not why it works either.  This is what people need to hear instead of some of the other noise. 

Wait, are you saying Saguto doesn't understand cause and effect?

[sundaypins]

16 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Wait, are you saying Saguto doesn't understand cause and effect?

 

If he does he sure ain't letting on during the video.  

[virtuoso]

13 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

If he does he sure ain't letting on during the video.  

Yeah.....my main concern is that Tom might accidentally get everyone digging trenches while they hit trap smother hooks....with his re-heated version of S&T.

[RayPlan]

31 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Wait, are you saying Saguto doesn't understand cause and effect?

I certainly don't. Someone once called me a rascal from the future, and the implications of that are very troubling and confusing to me

[rsballer10]

42 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Yeah.....my main concern is that Tom might accidentally get everyone digging trenches while they hit trap smother hooks....with his re-heated version of S&T

I know S&T works for a ton of people, but those were some dark times for me. 

[RayPlan]

55 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Yeah.....my main concern is that Tom might accidentally get everyone digging trenches while they hit trap smother hooks....with his re-heated version of S&T.

yeah Seguto calls his version "Sack and Stilts"

[virtuoso]

5 hours ago, rsballer10 said:

I know S&T works for a ton of people, but those were some dark times for me. 

The good news about Saguto S&T is that he offers “training patterns” for:

Breaking 100

Breaking 90

Breaking 80

Breaking 70

So, you can be shooting 95, take the course on breaking 90, and  for a little extra money just skip to the breaking 70 pattern. That way you don’t really have to bother with the stagnation that a lot of people get in the 85 to 75 range. 
 

I assume in the breaking 70 phase he helps you get rid of the snap hook he gave you to break 90.

Edited July 11 by virtuoso

[TheDeanAbides]

2 hours ago, virtuoso said:

The good news about Saguto S&T is that he offers “training patterns” for:

Breaking 100

Breaking 90

Breaking 80

Breaking 70

So, you can be shooting 95, take the course on breaking 90, and  for a little extra money just skip to the breaking 70 pattern. That way you don’t really have to bother with the stagnation that a lot of people get in the 85 to 75 range. 
 

I assume in the breaking 70 phase he helps you get rid of the snap hook he gave you to break 90.

You win the internet today.