Grant Horvat not playing in the Barracuda

[Mr.Cleeks]

3 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

 

 

I don't know his entire ledger - you look up his company details since it's all public record in FL, and he's the owner of his company, on top of being part owner of For Welness and Takomo.  I'm sure he pays a salary out to his production crew, and with taxes and all that I'm guessing he's still raking in well into the low millions.  Much less stressful way to make millions compared to the average tour guy you pointed out who is grinding away at it...and if he misses the cut this weekend he makes $0 - where Grant is probably still raking in thousands from doing nothing because his business has a lot of passive income built into it.   You just seem to be against all of it, which is fine, ignore it, but to think it's not something that's taking off, taking off fast, and will be a pretty big thing for the foreseeable future, is foolish. 

 

 

He's got a stake in takomo, primo, for wellness and is also sponsored by taylormade. Probably raking in more in endorsements then 95% of pro golfers

[MountainKing]

5 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

What is the value to prop to get in the space with these guys?  
 

the pga tour is a billion dollar entity and media rights agreements all ready in place over the next 10 years or so will net them billions (plural) more. What grant is pulling in is Pennie’s in comparison.  Grants leverage is zero to negative, as he’s really the one that gains something from this.  

 

the argument people are making for partnering is like asking Starbucks to let a couple of teenagers setup their own coffee stand in one of their stores….like why????

 

All good points - I guess the way I look at it, is just this one event alone doesn't offer anything to either side, it's more getting into what potentially could be the future.  What does Grant get out of it if he can't do his thing with it?  At that point he's just another guy who will be south of the cut line.  

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

He's got a stake in takomo, primo, for wellness and is also sponsored by taylormade. Probably raking in more in endorsements then 95% of pro golfers

To be fair we don’t know if Takomo, primo, or wellness make a profit so the stake in those companies might worthless

 

We also don’t know the details of his tm sponsorship.  5k,50k, 500k?  Atleast we know they are profits or though.

 

you are hitting on something though.  If the pga tour does do something with hims, they are going to want a part of his company in sure

[Pnwpingi210]

Just now, MountainKing said:

 

All good points - I guess the way I look at it, is just this one event alone doesn't offer anything to either side, it's more getting into what potentially could be the future.  What does Grant get out of it if he can't do his thing with it?  At that point he's just another guy who will be south of the cut line.  

He gets to make a content series about it….which is what he does…..

[Frank Newport]

1 minute ago, MountainKing said:

 

 

I don't know his entire ledger - you look up his company details since it's all public record in FL, and he's the owner of his company, on top of being part owner of For Welness and Takomo.  I'm sure he pays a salary out to his production crew, and with taxes and all that I'm guessing he's still raking in well into the low millions.  Much less stressful way to make millions compared to the average tour guy you pointed out who is grinding away at it...and if he misses the cut this weekend he makes $0 - where Grant is probably still raking in thousands from doing nothing because his business has a lot of passive income built into it.   You just seem to be against all of it, which is fine, ignore it, but to think it's not something that's taking off, taking off fast, and will be a pretty big thing for the foreseeable future, is foolish. 

 

 

I'm not against content creation, influencing, etc. Honestly, I just don't watch a lot of content in general regardless of the creator or platform. I also assume GH is one of the more popular golf influencers in the world so comparing him to the #76 PGA Tour golfer isn't fair either. A more fair comparison might be what the 76th most popular golf influencer makes.

 

I just get a little frustrated when people assume that social media personalities are raking it in because they have a lot of followers. Like a lot of other professions, I'm sure the top content creators are making millions, but for the most part, many are making ends meet at best. 

[Frank Newport]

7 minutes ago, Mr.Cleeks said:

He's got a stake in takomo, primo, for wellness and is also sponsored by taylormade. Probably raking in more in endorsements then 95% of pro golfers

Do those companies make a profit?

[Pnwpingi210]

6 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

Do those companies make a profit?

Bingo.  Generally when companies can’t pay you for endorsing them when they have no money/cashflow they give you ownership stake…..

 

we know tm turns one but the rest🤷

Edited July 16 by Pnwpingi210

[Frank Newport]

9 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

 

All good points - I guess the way I look at it, is just this one event alone doesn't offer anything to either side, it's more getting into what potentially could be the future.  What does Grant get out of it if he can't do his thing with it?  At that point he's just another guy who will be south of the cut line.  

 

This is probably the center of our (me and you) debate. I'm arguing GH needs celebrities and other outlets/venues more than the PGA Tour needs influencers/content creators (non PGA Tour types). GH's videos clearly indicate this fact. (The PGA Tour also wasn't the one who extended the invite so its probably not fair to throw them in there, but it is the discussion after this week.)  

[PedronNiall]

To recap: the Tour already partners with Youtubers in many different ways. Horvat has been included in the party previously, his choice not to come along for the ride in ways that work this time is on him. 

 

Reality is for reasons others have pointed out, a channel's success for the channel owner does not mean it will bring big dollars for and entity like the Tour. Taylormade and other companies can afford to float checks that are big for an individual or team because they get a lot more impressions per dollar than via traditional media so it can be useful. An entity like the Tour makes its money on ticket packages, sponsors paying for viewership from the one of the wealthiest segments there is, and parlaying both of those things into high dollar golf trips to the courses they own and partner with. Horvat alone isn't at all going to replace that, nor will the whole of the YouTube golf world working with them, so there are simply limits to what makes sense for them to go in on. 

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, Frank Newport said:

 

This is probably the center of our (me and you) debate. I'm arguing GH needs celebrities and other outlets/venues more than the PGA Tour needs influencers/content creators (non PGA Tour types). GH's videos clearly indicate this fact. (The PGA Tour also wasn't the one who extended the invite so its probably not fair to throw them in there, but it is the discussion after this week.)  

You get it!

[Yuck]

16 hours ago, Shilgy said:

I will add to @Yuck what is a “solid am”?
 

2025 Arizona Amateur Strokeplay scoring. 72.2/130

https://www.golfgenius.com/pages/5082063

Below an “Elite” Am, but better than a WRX 4 Capper…….

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

 

This is probably the center of our (me and you) debate. I'm arguing GH needs celebrities and other outlets/venues more than the PGA Tour needs influencers/content creators (non PGA Tour types). GH's videos clearly indicate this fact. (The PGA Tour also wasn't the one who extended the invite so its probably not fair to throw them in there, but it is the discussion after this week.)  

That’s a good point that the PGA tour wasn’t the one that extended the invite. But do we know who did?!?! 

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, NetBogey said:

That’s a good point that the PGA tour wasn’t the one that extended the invite. But do we know who did?!?! 

Barracuda networks.  it was a sponsors invite….

[bcjim]

People watch this yt stuff because it's essentially free. Very, very few people would pay to watch GH or any other yt golf "celebrity".

 

 

[Frank Newport]

I believe the future of golf content is going to look somewhat similar to Full Swing where the stars are PGA and LIV Tour Pros and I think most of the influencers will be cut out and left behind as the tours and other creators learn to develop content for the tours. The players will likely support it because it will bring more dollars to the individuals and the Tours overall. It would be naive for the tours to pay influencers to star in their content when they can just have their own members be the stars. The influencers deserve credit for growing the ecosystem that is golf content creation but they'll likely have to go back to making standalone content without Tour stars. The popular channels will still be popular, but their viewership is likely going to plummet. 

 

Some of the influencers will be onboarded to the Tour platforms, but most likely in a behind the camera advisory role. Remember, they are the ones who created/nurtured the whole ecosystem so they definitely have valuable knowledge, but they're not likely to remain the stars in the future. 

 

Most content doesn't age well, especially comedy, so I would expect a lot of the creators that rely on humor to age out over time. 

Edited July 16 by Frank Newport

[bscinstnct]

6 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

I believe the future of golf content is going to look somewhat similar to Full Swing where the stars are PGA and LIV Tour Pros and I think most of the influencers will be cut out and left behind as the tours and other creators learn to develop content for the tours. The players will likely support it because it will bring more dollars to the individuals and the Tours overall. It would be naive for the tours to pay influencers to star in their content when they can just have their own members be the stars. The influencers deserve credit for growing the ecosystem that is golf content creation but they'll likely have to go back to making standalone content without Tour stars. The popular channels will still be popular, but their viewership is likely going to plummet. 

 

Some of the influencers will be onboarded to the Tour platforms, but most likely in a behind the camera advisory role. Remember, they are the ones who created/nurtured the whole ecosystem so they definitely have valuable knowledge, but they're not likely to remain the stars in the future. 

 

Most content doesn't age well, especially comedy, so I would expect a lot of the creators that rely on humor to age out over time. 

 

That’s not the right take 

 

GH and certain other social media producers have huge followings because of their personalities and the unique qualities of the videos they produce. 
 

It’s alternative content with its own creativity in its own right and it will continue to grow. 
 

The tour can’t and shouldn’t try to be social media content producers. They should focus on their own business and how events can reach the biggest audiences. 
 

The tour can partner where it makes sense to with social media producers to promote their product 

 

The same way other sports leagues do. 

[WesternRacing]

4 hours ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

 

That's revenue based purely on viewership. They make 5 times that in endorsements. He has shares in tokomo and other companies.

 

Well I doubt he’s getting $7.5 million in secondary endorsements for just his YT, but none of that would accrue to a partner like the PGA Tour.  The value of YT viewing audience from a monetization standpoint is still very small relative to the broadcast TV audience.  If it wasn’t, every major sports network would be negotiating with YT to stream their games over that platform.

[WesternRacing]

4 hours ago, straightshot7 said:

you’re not factoring in sponsorship money/product and apparel deals at all?

 

That’s personal sponsorship.  It has nothing to do with the value of media rights.  Does the PGA Tour get a cut of Scottie’s Nike money?

[WesternRacing]

The reason Horvat isn’t playing in this tournament is simple: control.  If he can film the event and produce media about it, he can control the entire narrative around his play and the tournament.  If he just plays in it, he has no control and likely gets zero attention other than a slot at the very bottom of the leaderboard.  It’s obvious that he wasn’t in this to compete in a tournament, but to leverage a billion dollar property to make money for his YouTube channel.  He knows he won’t be competitive in the event, so there is zero upside to him playing.  Only downside.  The only head scratcher in this whole situation is how it even got this far, as both parties should have known from the outset that filming wasn’t going to be allowed.

[Titleist99]

Note to the new head guy of the PGAT:

 

Create your own YouTube influencers and cut the Grant Horvat's completely out of the picture.

 

The PGAt has its own studio and production crew and endless content.

[Frank Newport]

15 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

That’s not the right take 

 

GH and certain other social media producers have huge followings because of their personalities and the unique qualities of the videos they produce. 
 

It’s alternative content with its own creativity in its own right and it will continue to grow. 
 

The tour can’t and shouldn’t try to be social media content producers. They should focus on their own business and how events can reach the biggest audiences. 
 

The tour can partner where it makes sense to with social media producers to promote their product 

 

The same way other sports leagues do. 

Don;t look at their subscriber numbers. Look at their viewership. Their most viewed videos are the ones with other celebrities and tour golfers. That can't sustain itself. People are going to want a cut. Also, tours would be naive to keep allowing their stars to collab with influencers if they don't see any benefit.

 

The videos they produce without famous celebs don't do that well and their viewership overall doesn't appear to be growing. It may even be shrinking. 

Edited July 16 by Frank Newport

[Frank Newport]

5 minutes ago, WesternRacing said:

The reason Horvat isn’t playing in this tournament is simple: control.  If he can film the event and produce media about it, he can control the entire narrative around his play and the tournament.  If he just plays in it, he has no control and likely gets zero attention other than a slot at the very bottom of the leaderboard.  It’s obvious that he wasn’t in this to compete in a tournament, but to leverage a billion dollar property to make money for his YouTube channel.  He knows he won’t be competitive in the event, so there is zero upside to him playing.  Only downside.  The only head scratcher in this whole situation is how it even got this far, as both parties should have known from the outset that filming wasn’t going to be allowed.

It got this far because the son of a Barracuda Networks Executive is a huge GH fan. (Probably)

[bscinstnct]

8 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Note to the new head guy of the PGAT:

 

Create your own YouTube influencers and cut the Grant Horvat's completely out of the picture.

 

The PGAt has its own studio and production crew and endless content.

 

This is not what they should do at all.

 

Its the independent creativity that resonates with their followers 

 

“Corporate” produced content has corporate guidelines and inevitably a corporate feel. 
 

Just partner with the best, most original producers that add value to the tour

[bscinstnct]

10 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

Don;t look at their subscriber numbers. Look at their viewership. Their most viewed videos are the ones with other celebrities and tour golfers. That can't sustain itself. People are going to was a cut. Also, tours would be naive to keep allowing their stars to collab with influencers if they don't see any benefit.

 

The videos they produce without famous celebs don't do that well and their viewership overall doesn't appear to be growing. It may even be shrinking. 

 

These videos with tour players enhance the tour and they don’t need to pay a dime

 

It’s a win win for the tour

 

In this case, it made no sense to let him bring in his own crew to film, actual event footage and run it on his channel

 

But letting the players appear in his videos because they actually want to and show their personalities and share golf tips and stories with viewers definitely is a good thing for the tour

 

And the content doesn’t compete with the tours. It’s alternative content that viewers actually seek out.

[LoganG663]

I’ll miss his pearly white teeth

[Pnwpingi210]

3 minutes ago, LoganG663 said:

I’ll miss his pearly white teeth

[Frank Newport]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

These videos with tour players enhance the tour and they don’t need to pay a dime

 

It’s a win win for the tour

 

In this case, it made no sense to let him bring in his own crew to film, actual event footage and run it on his channel

 

But letting the players appear in his videos because they actually want to and show their personalities and share golf tips and stories with viewers definitely is a good thing for the tour

 

And the content doesn’t compete with the tours. It’s alternative content that viewers actually seek out.

 

The tours aren't getting that much out of it. That's been my argument the whole time.

Those players are either getting paid or will be looking to do so if GH is really making money hand over fist. Last I check, pro golfers car about getting paid for their services.

 

8 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

This is not what they should do at all.

 

Its the independent creativity that resonates with their followers 

 

“Corporate” produced content has corporate guidelines and inevitably a corporate feel. 
 

Just partner with the best, most original producers that add value to the tour

 

Full Swing was good. Didn't feel corporate at all.

TV shows that don't have a corporate feel get produced all the time.

Why trust someone else if you can control the content yourself?

 

[Titleist99]

12 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

This is not what they should do at all.

 

Its the independent creativity that resonates with their followers 

 

“Corporate” produced content has corporate guidelines and inevitably a corporate feel. 
 

Just partner with the best, most original producers that add value to the tour

I can guarantee you, if there's money to be made or eyeballs to be had, corporate will somehow get involved ...... even if they have to buy Grant Horvat's likeness. 

[bscinstnct]

3 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I can guarantee you, if there's money to be made or eyeballs to be had, corporate will somehow get involved ...... even if they have to buy Grant Horvat's likeness. 

 

Yes well that’s what happens 

 

They will pay GH like 20MM for his channel 

 

It will become lame, get no views, shut down

 

Then he will start another one 🤣

 

 

[Titleist99]

12 minutes ago, Frank Newport said:

 

The tours aren't getting that much out of it. That's been my argument the whole time.

Those players are either getting paid or will be looking to do so if GH is really making money hand over fist. Last I check, pro golfers car about getting paid for their services.

 

 

Full Swing was good. Didn't feel corporate at all.

TV shows that don't have a corporate feel get produced all the time.

Why trust someone else if you can control the content yourself?

 

100%.

 

Grant Horvat is using PGAT players and players from other tours to produce content.

The purpose of PGAT Enterprise was established for things just like this.

 

PGAT Enterprise has access to courses all around the world. I'd wager that they could create content to rival anyone.

 

As an example:  PGAT could have Max Homa, Joel Dahman play celebrities on a YouTube channel. I'm sure the Bryant Bros wouldn't mind playing a duel with those guys.

Edited July 16 by Titleist99