Early Wrist Set Kills Your LAG & Causes You To Cast (Do THIS Instead). AMG recommends Hack Motion.

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

 

 

 this from the early wrist set thread.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Okay, I can see how that can be misinterpreted. I do not think the wrists should be fully set at p2 unless that doesn't cause you a problem later.

Yeah agreed, I don't see anything about "90*" there, unless that is how "set" is being interpreted which I can see how that could introduce confusion. "Fully set" would be the red flag as virtually no one does that by P2 save for a couple outliers. 

I'll continue beating the drum of "right vs. wrong" in terms of wrist fundamentals, encouraging them to be done very early as a learning tool for those that do it incorrectly so you can feel what "right" feels like early, then ingrain the feel and allow the player to implement it wherever feels comfortable e.g. setting fully somewhere between P3 and P4. That btw is a "natural flowing tour amount of wrist set" as Sean said in the AMG video, which is *anything* but natural to someone that hasn't learned it yet. 
 

2 hours ago, MK7Golf21 said:

I suppose it's a feel to try but I will say this, people that have inside takeaways are rolling the lead forearm in right off the ball. Probably 99% of them. If you are rolling the lead forearm in, then you will have to feel a massive amount of early setting the wrists right off the ball so it doesn't suck inside too much.

That's a fair point. I might disagree with the percentage but otherwise you're not wrong. I do think a lot of people have this issue and you're right in that you need to feel a LOT of early wrist set to make it work (see Viktor Hovland), but there are definitely a big chunk of people that also set their wrists incorrectly causing this issue in takeaway, namely the excessive extension of the trail hand (folding back) which is sometimes paired with a lot of flexion in the lead hand (bowing). The rolling forearm crowd is probably bigger than this group, but i'd hesitate to something as overwhelming as 99%. You're right though in that this crowd needs to fix that and your suggestion is good one there. 

Edited July 18 by Valtiel

[TheDeanAbides]

22 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

This is where AMG says you should be at P1.  "Feel like you do nothing".  They don't show ulnar deviation of the lead wrist but it does not look like there is not much set at this point.  It appears that the ulnar deviation is set at address and does not change much in the backswing? 

 

They are talking about not adding flexion or extension of the lead wrist.  They show a 6 degree decrease in extension which is in line with the idea of slightly less then toe up at this point. 

 

It seems that they are demonstrating how to do a one piece takeaway correctly?

 

It's an illusion. I look pretty much like that - maybe 5* more angle - but I'm doing it very actively off the ball to get there. It doesn't look early because it's married with the turn and shift. The problem occurs when a players actively stops the wrists setting and they look like that at P4. 

[Mark58]

In terms of wrist set and when, what happened to the TGM mechanic of when the right elbow begins to fold the left wrist will set? This was a staple of Lynn Blakes site for many years. The TGM crowd felt that the folding triggered the wrist set.

 

In addition, Mike Adams has a drill for wrist set timing. Take your address position, remove your trail hand and place it behind you and then start your backswing. Your wrist will set when the weight of the club demands for proper control and leverage. For me, this begins around P2 and is fully set at P3. I do not know if that is considered early, appropriate or too late.

 

I think the desire for "width" in the backswing may have caused wrist set problems in the past. I know it did for me. Keeping the trial arm straight for too long never worked for me.

[MK7Golf21]

38 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

 

Yeah agreed, I don't see anything about "90*" there, unless that is how "set" is being interpreted which I can see how that could introduce confusion. "Fully set" would be the red flag as virtually no one does that by P2 save for a couple outliers. 
 

 

 

lol, let's not play games, what else could "the set" of the wrists mean other than 90*. Maybe he means some other arbitrary number like 75*, right lol.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

That's a fair point. I might disagree with the percentage but otherwise you're not wrong. I do think a lot of people have this issue and you're right in that you need to feel a LOT of early wrist set to make it work (see Viktor Hovland), but there are definitely a big chunk of people that also set their wrists incorrectly causing this issue in takeaway, namely the excessive extension of the trail hand (folding back) which is sometimes paired with a lot of flexion in the lead hand (bowing). The rolling forearm crowd is probably bigger than this group, but i'd hesitate to something as overwhelming as 99%. You're right though in that this crowd needs to fix that and your suggestion is good one there. 

 

here is the thing, you can pretty much put those two groups together. Rolling the forearms with the inside takeaway causes extension of the trail hand (folding back). 

 

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

 

lol, let's not play games, what else could "the set" of the wrists mean other than 90*. Maybe he means some other arbitrary number like 75*, right lol.

 

 

 

here is the thing, you can pretty much put those two groups together. Rolling the forearms with the inside takeaway causes extension of the trail hand (folding back). 

 

I just really don't see it that way, because 90* isn't "full" as any kind of standard, plenty of people get the wrists set in a good place and produce less angle than that. The point I interpreted from that (again, it could be explained better) is that you need the wrists setting *correctly* by that point which normally means having the proper blend of upwards deviation/extension/flexion. Basically getting and keeping that ratio correct (which most people don't) so that when wrist hinge increases up the backswing it does so correctly and in the right proportions. 

I'll tag @GoGoErky in to clarify, but I guarantee he didn't mean 90* at P2 unless it was for a specific drill. And if what I said above is what he meant then it's just a need to clarify better and not a "this forum regularly advocates for extreme wrist conditions". 

As for the forearms/wrists, I agree with that, although there are exceptions but i'd say that's mostly accurate. The rub comes from what people actually feel in relation to that "real", but that's a different can of worms. 

Edited July 18 by Valtiel

[NosajNeelik]

2 hours ago, Nels55 said:

This is where AMG says you should be at P1.  "Feel like you do nothing".  They don't show ulnar deviation of the lead wrist but it does not look like there is not much set at this point.  It appears that the ulnar deviation is set at address and does not change much in the backswing? 

 

They are talking about not adding flexion or extension of the lead wrist.  They show a 6 degree decrease in extension which is in line with the idea of slightly less then toe up at this point. 

 

It seems that they are demonstrating how to do a one piece takeaway correctly?

 

That’s p2

[bladehunter]

17 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

 

I'm going to try responding to these together. First, and *maybe* this is just how i'm interpreting it, i've never interpreted anyone here advocating for anything "extreme" in terms of early wrist set, so I disagree with that @MK7Golf21. Setting the wrists earlier is recommended to people that set them either late or incorrectly and for really good reason; if you don't learn how to do it *correctly* you very likely need to learn it early because it's extremely difficult to fix moves like this without stepping back to the beginning and getting it right immediately off the ball. And i'll say it again because apparently it isn't sticking...

Advocating for an earlier wrist set is neither recommending an extreme NOR is it even recommending that their golf swing needs to get the wrists set "early". 

To your point @bladehunter I agree, this shouldn't be talked about in binaries, but not in the way you're suggesting. Early/late doesn't matter nearly as much as right/wrong, and while AMG is speaking to one particular "wrong" here (excessive and early), i'd argue that the opposite is far more prevalent in the golfing public (passive and late). You can set your wrists literally *whenever* you want so long as you have the right combination of deviations/extensions/flexions. You can do it immediately in takeaway like a Danny Willett or later at the top like Tiger Woods or on the more extreme end someone like Bryson. If you don't know how to get your wrists set properly then late/early is pointless, it's just "wrong" at that point and it's really difficult to learn without starting early since most of the "wrong" crowd as often wrong right off the ball. 

That brings us to what Sean says in the video that kinda irritates me at 2:20: "This is just a natural, flowing....I would say "tour" amount of wrist set going to the top". For the person that doesn't know how to set their wrists correctly ....there is nothing "natural" about a "tour amount of wrist set going to the top". That. Is. Earlier. It nearly always is. And I KNOW that AMG knows this because they've literally made several videos about preset drills and setting the wrists earlier, so this little trend they've had of jumping on the "everything sounds contradictory" bandwagon is actually pretty frustrating. If you take the average (and very common) overrunning backswing 15hdcp they will have noticeably LESS wrist set at the same point in the backswing than most pros, and often less than even the later setting outliers. To them the idea of a "natural flowing tour wrist set" would be completely foreign...because if what came naturally to them was correct then they wouldn't be a 15hdcp, ergo "natural" is a s*** word to use for any of this and needs to be stricken from the golf teaching record. 

Wrist set has to be learned because it rarely if ever comes naturally, and worse what DOES come naturally like so many other things in the golf swing is often backwards. If someone is setting their wrists late *because they don't know how to set them correctly* then early is usually necessary to help recalibrate. That doesn't mean they have to stay early, just that it's far easier to learn "right" at that point than in the middle of the swing. 

All that is fair enough as far as opinions go. But as per usual with me. It brings up more questions. 
 

 What is “ correct “. ? And why is it not something I see shown anywhere?  I believe that I preform “ correct “. But much like riding a bicycle. I couldn’t tell you what I’m doing on a technical level . I just do it. That isnt me claiming perfection. It’s me sayin that correct must be a moving target. Or a spectrum. Or a wide range of something.  Otherwise I’m one of those naturals that doesn’t exist. And I’m not the only one . I play with others. 😂.  
 

 

Edited July 18 by bladehunter

[GoGoErky]

59 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

I just really don't see it that way, because 90* isn't "full" as any kind of standard, plenty of people get the wrists set in a good place and produce less angle than that. The point I interpreted from that (again, it could be explained better) is that you need the wrists setting *correctly* by that point which normally means having the proper blend of upwards deviation/extension/flexion. Basically getting and keeping that ratio correct (which most people don't) so that when wrist hinge increases up the backswing it does so correctly and in the right proportions. 

I'll tag @GoGoErky in to clarify, but I guarantee he didn't mean 90* at P2 unless it was for a specific drill. And if what I said above is what he meant then it's just a need to clarify better and not a "this forum regularly advocates for extreme wrist conditions". 

As for the forearms/wrists, I agree with that, although there are exceptions but i'd say that's mostly accurate. The rub comes from what people actually feel in relation to that "real", but that's a different can of worms. 

Correct not saying 90* and as noted it was stated around

[sundaypins]

2 hours ago, Mark58 said:

In terms of wrist set and when, what happened to the TGM mechanic of when the right elbow begins to fold the left wrist will set? This was a staple of Lynn Blakes site for many years. The TGM crowd felt that the folding triggered the wrist set.

 

First off welcome.   Second, probably still around in those circles and no reason why it shouldn't.  Pretty basic wrist range material both individually and coupled.  Reading some replies in this thread can be pretty funny at times and could make one believe our civilization is doomed. 😉

Edited July 18 by sundaypins

[mizunotpz]

On 7/16/2025 at 8:28 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

All they are saying is the other extreme is bad too.  As is over hinging.  The pushing down as well. I had this discussion with them last year.

With pushing down you mean, push down on the grip to try to hold or increase lag a la Sergio Garcia?

[Valtiel]

23 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

All that is fair enough as far as opinions go. But as per usual with me. It brings up more questions. 
 

 What is “ correct “. ? And why is it not something I see shown anywhere?  I believe that I preform “ correct “. But much like riding a bicycle. I couldn’t tell you what I’m doing on a technical level . I just do it. That isnt me claiming perfection. It’s me sayin that correct must be a moving target. Or a spectrum. Or a wide range of something.  Otherwise I’m one of those naturals that doesn’t exist. And I’m not the only one . I play with others. 😂.  
 

 

It's a good question that honestly is probably better defined by looking at all the ways people perform it incorrectly, when, and what it leads to. Like many swing elements there is no one singular set of numbers or parameters that equal "correct", but rather an acceptable range with acceptable matchups. And again like most elements...what is intuitive/comes naturally to a vast majority of people is *outside* that range, ergo you have to learn how to get within it. I linked this reel previously in this discussion because Saban and Freeze both have a pattern I see over and over and over again; a bad concept of how to load the trail hand in the backswing and a wild/damaging reroute at the top of the swing as a result. These are two classic and common cases of "wrong" that simply involve not knowing how to use the hands properly. There is no arguing that this is a "good" way to swing the club that can be managed, it's all for the bin. I'd wager $100 that If you tried to get either of those guys to set their wrists correctly they'd make basically the same busted first half of their backswing and then try to do something different in the second half, likely changing very little. You'd have to get both feel things very different VERY early to undo this.

This was discussed and illustrated a bit with a poster here with a similar common version of this wrist problem. It is just flat out *unintuitive* for a majority of people to hinge the club upwards/swing the arms up. Almost everyone starts at one point or another, junior or adult, by swinging "around". So ok....fine, that's a lot of "wrong", so what can we do to define "correct"? IMO you can look at it like this; the wrists need to satisfy certain immutable conditions on the golf swing. There needs to be *some* component of:

1) Both extension and radial deviation in the trail hand for the necessary "release" of the club in the downswing to occur
2) Both radial deviation and stability in the lead hand via a predictable/stable amount of either flexion, extension, or "neutrality"
3) A similarly stable predictability in *when* these conditions appear (i'll go into this more)

The main problem I continue to see is that when the wrists are passive and/or allowed to set "naturally" without learning what should and shouldn't happen, little to none of the above criteria is met. This usually manifests as some component of "late", but again not because "late" is bad, but late as a product of ignorance/passivity *IS*. And this all usually starts immediately in the takeaway often with the intuitive "flatness" of the amateur golf swing killing the necessary "up" that is partially facilitated by hinging the wrists upwards i.e. radial deviation. I agree with @MK7Golf21 in that the equally common excessive rolling of the forearms makes this very difficult as it tends to point everything around/behind you as opposed to upwards where it needs to. Now without the necessary deviation-based load you are not and WILL not be in a place to unload the club in the downswing, because the release the club with the trail hand is one part ulnar deviation (throwing away the radial i.e. casting) and one part moving from extension through neutrality (impact) to flexion (follow through release). If radial isn't present at the top you can't do ulnar (cast), AND critically the lack of radial going back usually corresponds with the excessive extension and inside takeaway discussed before, so when radial is forced by the weight of the club at the top of the swing and nothing else has been consciously or deliberately set then you the cascading failure of:

1) Loss of trail hand extension
2) Increase in lead hand extension
3) Radial arriving late

All three of these combine to form the unholy trinity that causes the complete loss of stability of the club at the top, and I could fill a Sistine Chapel ceiling mural of backswing positions that look like versions of this:



Nothing consistent can ever happen from here. Sh*** broke and there ain't no fixin' it but hoping and praying in the downswing. Matthew Wolff is the only one that gets into a similar(ish) position and he has a deeply ingrained and MASSIVE reroute as we all know that you would never teach anyone combined with very aggressive and equally ingrained lower body fundamentals the most can't even physically do that makes this work enough to have won a weak field event and bag some Saudi money. 

The reason this matters and the reason "early" is advocated for in learning is that it's part of the critical process that is unlearning all the ways we want to intuitively swing the club (wrong) and learn all the unintuitive things that make up a fundamentally sound golf swing with enough reps to make it intuitive (HARD!). As long you meet those three criteria above repeatedly then you can set your wrists and swing *however you want*. What this looks like at the top can obviously vary a lot among pros, but that all narrows into a very tight corridor in the initial downswing and pros that appear opposite at the top will be quite similar at P5.5 in terms of hand/wrist positions.  

[unskinnybop99]

On 7/17/2025 at 7:24 AM, Scottbox said:

 

 

 

 

58 EASY PAYMENTS!!

 

If you move the swingyde down the grip (closer to shaft) you will hinge later in the backswing

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, Valtiel said:

It's a good question that honestly is probably better defined by looking at all the ways people perform it incorrectly, when, and what it leads to. Like many swing elements there is no one singular set of numbers or parameters that equal "correct", but rather an acceptable range with acceptable matchups. And again like most elements...what is intuitive/comes naturally to a vast majority of people is *outside* that range, ergo you have to learn how to get within it. I linked this reel previously in this discussion because Saban and Freeze both have a pattern I see over and over and over again; a bad concept of how to load the trail hand in the backswing and a wild/damaging reroute at the top of the swing as a result. These are two classic and common cases of "wrong" that simply involve not knowing how to use the hands properly. There is no arguing that this is a "good" way to swing the club that can be managed, it's all for the bin. I'd wager $100 that If you tried to get either of those guys to set their wrists correctly they'd make basically the same busted first half of their backswing and then try to do something different in the second half, likely changing very little. You'd have to get both feel things very different VERY early to undo this.

This was discussed and illustrated a bit with a poster here with a similar common version of this wrist problem. It is just flat out *unintuitive* for a majority of people to hinge the club upwards/swing the arms up. Almost everyone starts at one point or another, junior or adult, by swinging "around". So ok....fine, that's a lot of "wrong", so what can we do to define "correct"? IMO you can look at it like this; the wrists need to satisfy certain immutable conditions on the golf swing. There needs to be *some* component of:

1) Both extension and radial deviation in the trail hand for the necessary "release" of the club in the downswing to occur
2) Both radial deviation and stability in the lead hand via a predictable/stable amount of either flexion, extension, or "neutrality"
3) A similarly stable predictability in *when* these conditions appear (i'll go into this more)

The main problem I continue to see is that when the wrists are passive and/or allowed to set "naturally" without learning what should and shouldn't happen, little to none of the above criteria is met. This usually manifests as some component of "late", but again not because "late" is bad, but late as a product of ignorance/passivity *IS*. And this all usually starts immediately in the takeaway often with the intuitive "flatness" of the amateur golf swing killing the necessary "up" that is partially facilitated by hinging the wrists upwards i.e. radial deviation. I agree with @MK7Golf21 in that the equally common excessive rolling of the forearms makes this very difficult as it tends to point everything around/behind you as opposed to upwards where it needs to. Now without the necessary deviation-based load you are not and WILL not be in a place to unload the club in the downswing, because the release the club with the trail hand is one part ulnar deviation (throwing away the radial i.e. casting) and one part moving from extension through neutrality (impact) to flexion (follow through release). If radial isn't present at the top you can't do ulnar (cast), AND critically the lack of radial going back usually corresponds with the excessive extension and inside takeaway discussed before, so when radial is forced by the weight of the club at the top of the swing and nothing else has been consciously or deliberately set then you the cascading failure of:

1) Loss of trail hand extension
2) Increase in lead hand extension
3) Radial arriving late

All three of these combine to form the unholy trinity that causes the complete loss of stability of the club at the top, and I could fill a Sistine Chapel ceiling mural of backswing positions that look like versions of this:



Nothing consistent can ever happen from here. Sh*** broke and there ain't no fixin' it but hoping and praying in the downswing. Matthew Wolff is the only one that gets into a similar(ish) position and he has a deeply ingrained and MASSIVE reroute as we all know that you would never teach anyone combined with very aggressive and equally ingrained lower body fundamentals the most can't even physically do that makes this work enough to have won a weak field event and bag some Saudi money. 

The reason this matters and the reason "early" is advocated for in learning is that it's part of the critical process that is unlearning all the ways we want to intuitively swing the club (wrong) and learn all the unintuitive things that make up a fundamentally sound golf swing with enough reps to make it intuitive (HARD!). As long you meet those three criteria above repeatedly then you can set your wrists and swing *however you want*. What this looks like at the top can obviously vary a lot among pros, but that all narrows into a very tight corridor in the initial downswing and pros that appear opposite at the top will be quite similar at P5.5 in terms of hand/wrist positions.  

Appreciate the detail.  I smell what you’re stepping in. 🤣.  Communicate pretty well.  Or you’re good at humoring me. Thumbs up either way.  Because i understand what you just said.  
 

for curiosity sake i looked at myself and im not sure id   call me “ late “. Also not early.  
 

as a side note. Curiosity makes me say this. I wonder where I skipped the “ suck it inside “ stuff at ?  Possibly starting as an adult with clubs that were too short for me ?  Meaning standing close and swinging up and down was the only possible way for me to reach the ball.   So dumb luck ?  Anyway. Here’s a random still or two showing a bad angle from rear.  And a face on. To show wrists etc. I really should take some good video one day.  Just haven’t.  And no I don’t normally dress like a hobo in public.  I hit balls at home. So 🤦‍♂️

 

ps. More I look. Maybe I am early ? Or way before late ?    🤨.  Maybe it just doesn’t “ feel “ early because it’s not a trigger to start the swing ?  I trigger off my belt buckle moving.  

[unskinnybop99]

Nick Faldo drill

 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Appreciate the detail.  I smell what you’re stepping in. 🤣.  Communicate pretty well.  Or you’re good at humoring me. Thumbs up either way.  Because i understand what you just said.  
 

for curiosity sake i looked at myself and im not sure id   call me “ late “. Also not early.  
 

as a side note. Curiosity makes me say this. I wonder where I skipped the “ suck it inside “ stuff at ?  Possibly starting as an adult with clubs that were too short for me ?  Meaning standing close and swinging up and down was the only possible way for me to reach the ball.   So dumb luck ?  Anyway. Here’s a random still or two showing a bad angle from rear.  And a face on. To show wrists etc. I really should take some good video one day.  Just haven’t.  And no I don’t normally dress like a hobo in public.  I hit balls at home. So 🤦‍♂️

 

ps. More I look. Maybe I am early ? Or way before late ?    🤨.  Maybe it just doesn’t “ feel “ early because it’s not a trigger to start the swing ?  I trigger off my belt buckle moving.  

No humoring intended hah, just trying to lay things out in a way that best explains how i'm seeing it and why I disagree with what I do. 
 

Quote

as a side note. Curiosity makes me say this. I wonder where I skipped the “ suck it inside “ stuff at ?  Possibly starting as an adult with clubs that were too short for me ?  Meaning standing close and swinging up and down was the only possible way for me to reach the ball.   So dumb luck ?

Definitely possible. Not *everyone* has the inside issue, it's just extremely common, but this could easily sidestep it for sure. 

As for your wrists, without seeing motion it's hard to discern timing i.e. early/late, but we can surmise a few things:



Here we see a healthy amount of hinge in the right hand and not much in the left. The pitch of the shaft from this angle can be deceiving because the more inside you are going back the more upright the shaft will look regardless of hinge, and I suspect your right elbow here is a bit further behind you than what would be considered "neutral" which could also explain:



The three things here of note are the angle of your right arm, the (maybe) concerning lack of extension in the right hand, and the slightly open clubface. All of these could be manageable flaws, kryptonite, or a non-issue depending on how you move in transition. This is Shane Lowry-esque in a way and there is a specific type of transition move that would make a position like this "neutral" in the back picture from a match up standpoint. I'd be curious to see video!

[bladehunter]

9 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

No humoring intended hah, just trying to lay things out in a way that best explains how i'm seeing it and why I disagree with what I do. 
 

Definitely possible. Not *everyone* has the inside issue, it's just extremely common, but this could easily sidestep it for sure. 

As for your wrists, without seeing motion it's hard to discern timing i.e. early/late, but we can surmise a few things:



Here we see a healthy amount of hinge in the right hand and not much in the left. The pitch of the shaft from this angle can be deceiving because the more inside you are going back the more upright the shaft will look regardless of hinge, and I suspect your right elbow here is a bit further behind you than what would be considered "neutral" which could also explain:



The three things here of note are the angle of your right arm, the (maybe) concerning lack of extension in the right hand, and the slightly open clubface. All of these could be manageable flaws, kryptonite, or a non-issue depending on how you move in transition. This is Shane Lowry-esque in a way and there is a specific type of transition move that would make a position like this "neutral" in the back picture from a match up standpoint. I'd be curious to see video!

Good eye. Meaning. Shane. Yes. That’s a good way to describe my “ natural “ shot shape and general way I learned to play.  Straight up and down.  , flighted and falling right. 
 

id be interested to see a right now video too.  These pics were taken BEFORE some work to get a little farther from  the ball and work  on less cut. More straight with driver.  I have different “ feel “ now. I don’t know what it looks like.  I hate looking.  Loathe it. 
 

I keep saying I’ll grab some.  Always tired. Don’t play much. Just hit balls slowly for kicks. Need a phone stand. Those are my excuses 🤣

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I don’t know what it looks like.  I hate looking.  Loathe it. 

I used to feel the same way, and there are certain angles of my swing I actually avoid looking at simply because I know they will be a rabbit hole that will require a second set of (better) eyes. 

But I got to a point where the feel v. reel disconnect had gotten too great as my backswing got too steep/upright. I remember having a session where I tried to feel way lower/deeper/more inside and I got into a spot where transition/downswing felt WAY less cramped/compensate-y, and checking it on video showed my hands *really* only moving a small amount in terms of where they arrived at the top. My tendency was for my backswing to get steeper at the top i.e. hands going too vertical from P3 to P4. In trying to feel flatter/deeper going back, all I actually accomplished was NOT steepening and arriving in a pretty neutral spot. That's when I knew that video would always need to be there if things feel off and I need to recalibrate. 

[TheDeanAbides]

8 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Appreciate the detail.  I smell what you’re stepping in. 🤣.  Communicate pretty well.  Or you’re good at humoring me. Thumbs up either way.  Because i understand what you just said.  
 

for curiosity sake i looked at myself and im not sure id   call me “ late “. Also not early.  
 

as a side note. Curiosity makes me say this. I wonder where I skipped the “ suck it inside “ stuff at ?  Possibly starting as an adult with clubs that were too short for me ?  Meaning standing close and swinging up and down was the only possible way for me to reach the ball.   So dumb luck ?  Anyway. Here’s a random still or two showing a bad angle from rear.  And a face on. To show wrists etc. I really should take some good video one day.  Just haven’t.  And no I don’t normally dress like a hobo in public.  I hit balls at home. So 🤦‍♂️

 

ps. More I look. Maybe I am early ? Or way before late ?    🤨.  Maybe it just doesn’t “ feel “ early because it’s not a trigger to start the swing ?  I trigger off my belt buckle moving.  

Lots of good things happening in your swing, fella. Hard to really tell what's happening from these, but lots of it looks solid.

 

Some potential issues that I see @Valtiel brought up, but hard to see how they match up without video. Obviously you make them work for you because you're a plus. The good thing is that there's room to be better, which I'd be excited about.

Edited July 19 by TheDeanAbides

[sundaypins]

On 7/16/2025 at 5:19 PM, Tupperwolf said:

Every youtube video in the universe looks like this now and I hate it.

 

Some guy doing something with a blurred background and gigantic red shouty letters.  Oh, and a few big emojis for good measure.

 

Highly painted and decorated circus wagons coming to town did their work grabbing attention during the parade but inside that decorated box was just an assortment or circus bunk and junk. 

[golferdude54]

I want to add Steven Fisk as a recent notable player, this guy has been a great ball-striker statistically for a rookie and he might have even more late wrist set than Dan Pohl in the 1980s. 

 

 

[Valtiel]

16 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

I want to add Steven Fisk as a recent notable player, this guy has been a great ball-striker statistically for a rookie and he might have even more late wrist set than Dan Pohl in the 1980s. 

 

 

Not only that but get a load of that grip and how open the clubface is at the top:



It's like if you combined all the outlier elements of Bryson, Finau, Simpson, and Xander. There must be something absurd going on with his hands to make this work....like off the charts strength/speed. 

Edited July 23 by Valtiel

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

Not only that but get a load of that grip and how open the clubface is at the top:



It's like if you combined all the outlier elements of Bryson, Finau, Simpson, and Xander. There must be something absurd going on with his hands to make this work....like off the charts strength/speed. 

Man, should we send him Erik's grip video? ;-)