GIR and putting skills ? Feels? on / off days?

[Saijin]

I'm on a new journey of discovery I think. And the new backswing I've been working on seems to start to come together more and more.

And the less stress and serious I play it becomes easier to swing.

 

Hit a record GIR of 17 today, even from 220yds with a 5i I can hit the GIR.

 

So what I noticed is from 180yds and up even though I hit the green, I'm nowhere near the pin.

and from 100-145yds (my lob - gap wedge) if the pin is in the corner near bad penalty area it scares me and I just decide to hit the center.

(not today though, I was aggressive and it paid off)

 

But for safe play I always just hit center green if the pin is in a tricky spot, but this leaves me 10-20ft to putt.

I 2 putt and almost never 3 putt, but it kills the chances of getting birdies.

 

I'm gonna have a chat with my coach about this, but what would your strategy be?

For me even though I can see lines and curves, it's still difficult to sink the first putt if it's further than 4ft from the pin.

 

Maybe I'm not the good putter I thought I am?

[GoGoErky]

Hit it closer to the hole off the tee. Have less shots from 180+.

 

if you’re having a lot of those shots on par 4s then maybe move up a tee box

[GoGoErky]

41 minutes ago, Saijin said:

But for safe play I always just hit center green if the pin is in a tricky spot, but this leaves me 10-20ft to putt.

I 2 putt and almost never 3 putt, but it kills the chances of getting birdies.

I would recommend picking up a copy of lowest score wins 

[Saijin]

7 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Hit it closer to the hole off the tee. Have less shots from 180+.

 

if you’re having a lot of those shots on par 4s then maybe move up a tee box

My average drive carry is already 312.

And no I don't have many of those, just that I play long courses above 7100-7500.

 

Tricky pin placements, tricky fairways half the time.

[Hawkeye77]

Check some readily available stats and compare them to yours and I'll bet your putting is better than you think it is.  

 

The guy leading the Tour at proximity greater than 100 yards is at 30 feet or so, the guy leading the Tour at proximity less than 100 yards is at 13 feet or so.  So your post suggests Tour quality proximity even when sometimes not going for the pin, and it may very well be.

 

No coach here, and can't relate to your level of play, but your gains seem to be at the margins and sounds like you have lots of speed.  I guess a deep dive into your own stats and figure out what needs work and how to go about it? I'm not sure much more specific could be offered without more detail but again, no coach.

[Sean124]

If I have 4 birdie putts from 10-20 feet I expect to make 1. Making 2 is a great day with the putter. Some days none of them go in. 
 

Tour average from 100-125 is 20 feet. This seems like it could just be an issue of managing expectations. 

[getitdaily]

Little bit all over with your question so I'll answer as I read it...

 

From 180+ I'm elated with 10-20 feet (I'm a +1.8). Im firing at the center or away from trouble anytime I have that yardage and the pin brings in trouble.

 

From 150-180...I'm getting more aggressive but still not dumb. Great example...160 to back right cut pin. 154 to center. Pin is cut 5 paces from right edge and then there's about 8 paces down a slope to water. Anything right of the pin is almost certain to be in the water at that yardage (green slopes from middle to the water). 8i stock is 155. I can get on it and hit it 160 easily. But there was no need. I hit it to the center of the green and knew par was a good score for that hole/pin.

 

Under 130 and I'm getting super aggressive. I'll still play to the safe side but my target is much closer to the pin...and almost always directly at it. 

 

I'll take 10 to 20 footers all day. Some go, some don't, somedays you make them all and shoot 63.

 

2 day tournament this past weekend...

 

Day 1 - 11 greens and had 4 birdies. Inside 20 feet 7 times and made 3 of them (chipped in from inside 20 feet but just off the green once).

 

Day 2 - 12 greens and had 2 birdies but hit the edge 3 times and lipped out. Inside 20 feet 8 times and made 2.

[Dabetic]

Unless the course is just crazy, sounds like be a tad more aggressive from ~150 and in. Probably to a fault, I'm almost always pin-hunting in that range. Maybe 5ft to the side to be sure I'm safe. If I do miss, I enjoy soft LW shots, but my strategy would change if the rough was longer and actually difficult...it isn't

 

I'm terrible at aiming at the middle of the green though, so maybe don't listen to me 

 

Edit: I also think you need to get more excited about 10-20ft putts. When the putter is hot, those are definitely makeable. I've been there when I think I need to hit it to 5ft to make birdie, and it's not a good mindset

Edited July 17 by Dabetic

[wagolfer7]

Need to get more aggressive when you can. You can only make so many putts from outside of 5ft consistently. Ultimately need to hit it closer to the pin when the opportunity presents itself and hit driver on shorter par 4s instead of the safe layup. 

 

It's a fun learning experience to play very aggressive and then learn where the balance is to be more consistent but still give yourself a chance to shoot well under par. 

 

And to drain at least one putt on that 7-15ft range always helps. 

[golferdude54]

10-20 feet from 180 yards?
 

Jim Furyk holds the single round record for strokes gained on approach shots which was +0.4 better per shot.

 

From 180 in the fairway, +0.4 is equal to 12 feet from the pin. And you say 10 feet. Ok. 
 

Edited July 17 by golferdude54

[GoGoErky]

10 hours ago, Saijin said:

My average drive carry is already 312.

And no I don't have many of those, just that I play long courses above 7100-7500.

 

Tricky pin placements, tricky fairways half the time.

Here’s a post with proximity stats.

 

might help with perspective or planning

 

 

[Obee]

Do you play tournament golf? If so, let's see the results of your last 5 or 6 tournaments.

[Saijin]

45 minutes ago, Obee said:

Do you play tournament golf? If so, let's see the results of your last 5 or 6 tournaments.

No, I'm just a local course hack.

 

The "tournaments" I only play nowadays are fundraisers when I'm invited to play one.

 

The last 6 rounds I played from 7100+ : +2, -1, -1, -3, -2, -3     GIR: 12-17 , FIR: 9-14

 

Again though, I'm mainly more concerned about putting from mid distance like 10-20ft.

[Saijin]

13 hours ago, Sean124 said:

If I have 4 birdie putts from 10-20 feet I expect to make 1. Making 2 is a great day with the putter. Some days none of them go in. 
 

Tour average from 100-125 is 20 feet. This seems like it could just be an issue of managing expectations. 

I have very low expectations making a 10ft putt, let alone 20ft.

I just make sure that my speed and lines are as accurate as I could be so I get a tap in for the 2nd putt.

 

After reading everyone's opinions, I think you guys are right.... I need to reconsider my mindset from those distances.

Playing again today at this course I never shot below -2 and going to be play more aggressively and with more confidence.

 

Thanks again to everyone replying.

 

PS: I think I'm going to look for a putting coach and see what he says. Recommended?

[Obee]

2 hours ago, Saijin said:

No, I'm just a local course hack.

 

The "tournaments" I only play nowadays are fundraisers when I'm invited to play one.

 

The last 6 rounds I played from 7100+ : +2, -1, -1, -3, -2, -3     GIR: 12-17 , FIR: 9-14

 

Again though, I'm mainly more concerned about putting from mid distance like 10-20ft.

What's the course rating and slope?

And what do you mean by "nowadays"? Did you formerly compete in college or as a professional?

[Beenerpro]

1 hour ago, Saijin said:

I have very low expectations making a 10ft putt, let alone 20ft.

Self fulfilling prophecy. If you don’t expect to make putts you probably won’t. You have to believe that you can make anything and everything, but understand that not all of them go in. Believing you’re a great putter will help you become one. 

[MelloYello]

3 hours ago, Saijin said:

No, I'm just a local course hack.

 

The "tournaments" I only play nowadays are fundraisers when I'm invited to play one.

 

The last 6 rounds I played from 7100+ : +2, -1, -1, -3, -2, -3     GIR: 12-17 , FIR: 9-14

 

Again though, I'm mainly more concerned about putting from mid distance like 10-20ft.

 

If you're hitting that many GIR you're certainly going to have your share of lag putts from 25+ feet where there's basically no realistic shot of making the putt...

 

...that said, I think you should be making a few of the mid-length putts, whether they're helping you convert birdies or just save par. If you have a straight-up-the-hill 10-footer, that's actually a putt that should drop, or at least scare the hole and catch a lip. 

 

It really depends on the difficulty of the putt but again, there should be a few that fall based on how many you're getting. 

 

If your ball-striking is as good as it is, I do wonder if perhaps there's some work you can do to convert a few more with the putter. You shouldn't be thinking "2-putt" or "just lag it" from 10- or 15-feet unless it's the most extreme kind of downhill breaker. 

 

If you're really a + index player, you're going to have enough chances at making those 10- and 15-footers that it matters. You want to get into the mindset of expecting to scare the hole each and every time from that distance. If you aren't making those, it's definitely a sign you're not really as accurate a putter as you think.

 

If I give you a straight 10-footer on the practice green...that should be dropping as a matter of course. You're going to get some make-able putts on the course for sure. You have to convert those opportunities when you can!  

 

.

Edited July 17 by MelloYello

[Saijin]

1 hour ago, Obee said:

What's the course rating and slope?

And what do you mean by "nowadays"? Did you formerly compete in college or as a professional?

 

I play multiple courses, here are the 4 courses I play regularly:

73.8 - 138

73.9 - 138

75.2 - 137

72.6 - 140

 

No, I didn't play golf in college, I was a close friend and ambassador of a particular Japanese golf forge house. (I prefer to remain private about me)

Tournaments I played are all local and I didn't become this decent until only a few years ago. And even now still I'm trying to better my back swing position.

 

I'll be talking with my coach soon and discuss more strategy and expectations.

 

From the replies I see here, I think I'm being too conservative and meek with expectations and safe play.

And my GIR yesterday kinda proves it. (I was being quite aggressive with all my shots and they paid off, less some bad tee shots)

 

 

[Saijin]

17 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Little bit all over with your question so I'll answer as I read it...

 

From 180+ I'm elated with 10-20 feet (I'm a +1.8). Im firing at the center or away from trouble anytime I have that yardage and the pin brings in trouble.

 

From 150-180...I'm getting more aggressive but still not dumb. Great example...160 to back right cut pin. 154 to center. Pin is cut 5 paces from right edge and then there's about 8 paces down a slope to water. Anything right of the pin is almost certain to be in the water at that yardage (green slopes from middle to the water). 8i stock is 155. I can get on it and hit it 160 easily. But there was no need. I hit it to the center of the green and knew par was a good score for that hole/pin.

 

Under 130 and I'm getting super aggressive. I'll still play to the safe side but my target is much closer to the pin...and almost always directly at it. 

 

I'll take 10 to 20 footers all day. Some go, some don't, somedays you make them all and shoot 63.

 

2 day tournament this past weekend...

 

Day 1 - 11 greens and had 4 birdies. Inside 20 feet 7 times and made 3 of them (chipped in from inside 20 feet but just off the green once).

 

Day 2 - 12 greens and had 2 birdies but hit the edge 3 times and lipped out. Inside 20 feet 8 times and made 2.

 

Yea, I'm not the best at explaining or describing since I still needed to reorganize my thoughts and I have anxiety issues too.

But thanks for reading my rambling ^^;

[Obee]

13 minutes ago, Saijin said:

 

I play multiple courses, here are the 4 courses I play regularly:

73.8 - 138

73.9 - 138

75.2 - 137

72.6 - 140

 

No, I didn't play golf in college, I was a close friend and ambassador of a particular Japanese golf forge house. (I prefer to remain private about me)

Tournaments I played are all local and I didn't become this decent until only a few years ago. And even now still I'm trying to better my back swing position.

 

I'll be talking with my coach soon and discuss more strategy and expectations.

 

From the replies I see here, I think I'm being too conservative and meek with expectations and safe play.

And my GIR yesterday kinda proves it. (I was being quite aggressive with all my shots and they paid off, less some bad tee shots)

 

 

Unless you are playing in very tough conditions (firm greens, pins that are tucked 2 paces from fall offs and big slopes, etc.), you should be quite aggressive from 70 to 130(?) then less so and less so as you move out away from the hole.

Part of becoming one's very best at this game is understanding that golf is a game of huge variability: On the same hole, from day to day, the strategy on an approach shot may vary wildly based on a number of factors, but mostly: lie, green firmness, pin position, and pin position relative to hazards and trouble areas.

Some pins are "Go pins" from 125 and others, in certain conditions, are NOT.

[Saijin]

Just now, Obee said:

Unless you are playing in very tough conditions (firm greens, pins that are tucked 2 paces from fall offs and big slopes, etc.), you should be quite aggressive from 70 to 130(?) then less so and less so as you move out away from the hole.

Part of becoming one's very best at this game is understanding that golf is a game of huge variability: On the same hole, from day to day, the strategy on an approach shot may vary wildly based on a number of factors, but mostly: lie, green firmness, pin position, and pin position relative to hazards and trouble areas.

Some pins are "Go pins" from 125 and others, in certain conditions, are NOT.

Yesterday's pin placement are exactly that.... one wrong positioning it'll either roll into bunker or water.

green speed varies from 10 - 15 stipend on the same day due to rain and some greens are very dry.

IE: pin was center far right, near bunker, green slopes to the left hard into water.

I landed the ball slightly longer and higher than I wanted to near the pin and while walking to it the ball rolled to the left till it hits the fringe..... giving me what feels like a 50ft putt.

 

Our green's keeper is a f'ing sadist some times LOL

 

So I gather you also agree it's mainly about my mindset and I was being too meek and conservative with safe play?

 

 

 

[kiawah]

I think you're probably playing the right way, to be honest. If you end up 20-30 feet at worst 14-17 times per round, your fair share will probably go in. I always look at it as I have a better chance of holing the long ish putt than the short sided chip if I go for it UNLESS the surrounds of the green are really flat and not all that scary. 

[bladehunter]

32 minutes ago, Saijin said:

Yesterday's pin placement are exactly that.... one wrong positioning it'll either roll into bunker or water.

green speed varies from 10 - 15 stipend on the same day due to rain and some greens are very dry.

IE: pin was center far right, near bunker, green slopes to the left hard into water.

I landed the ball slightly longer and higher than I wanted to near the pin and while walking to it the ball rolled to the left till it hits the fringe..... giving me what feels like a 50ft putt.

 

Our green's keeper is a f'ing sadist some times LOL

 

So I gather you also agree it's mainly about my mindset and I was being too meek and conservative with safe play?

 

 

 

I’d proceed with caution if adding aggression.  Being a Phil mickelson type myself , it’s a dark hole if you go down that path completely. Most of us don’t get to play enough to overcome the mental lows of playing that way. You can do it if you play daily. Because  as most gamblers say “ my luck will be better tomorrow “. This is a fact because -You WILL get bucked off once or so a round.  And then you end up averaging one double bogey a round. That’s no fun.  Then there’s the rounds  where you hit it close all day. And still make none. Go there if you want to. But once you do. You’ll know that working to hole more putts isn’t a sin. It’s a must when playing aggressive.  Although many will tell you putting is an afterthought. 
 

im just saying take one aspirin. Not the whole bottle.  Inch it in aim wise , for pins that are less dangerous.  Playing to the middle and putting to the corners usually works best on hard greens.  Many here act as if they’ve never played on hard  green complexes.  My home courses defense is its greens. No flat spots.  Places that you better not miss on. Or it’s auto bogey. So you have to learn where not to hit it. 

[FuzzyKnuckles]

Sounds like you're playing exactly how you're supposed to, conservative targets into greens when there is danger around. Attack when under 130 ish and then more conservative as you get further away. 10-30 foot putts are really good positions to be in on many holes out there. I listened to some good podcasts from The Sweet Spot, and spent time studying PGA average proximity from various yardages, and that certainly helped my expectations. It also sounds like you're just being harder on yourself than you need to be. I learned when my expectations were in line, I was happier more with how I played. 

[Saijin]

@Obee@Sean124

 

And @ others who said I should have more confidence in my putting.

 

My iron approaches are so on point too today though, I even go after flags that are tucked in the corner. Aggressive plays are fun LOL

 

Well it worked. I sank so many 12-16ft putts today in fact I'm not afraid of them anymore. And most of my lag putts when I missed are inches from the hole.

It's insane what changing the mindset can do ...

 

I also shot my career low.  -7 (65) .   GIR 15.   FIR 13.

Granted the green on this course is not as difficult (most of the lines are very soft or straight) as the courses I regularly play though and the rating is only a 72.3 .

 

I even GIR from a bunker 209yds away with a 4i.

 

Like the old saying, golf is a mental game eh ?

[golferdude54]

The only time to be super aggressive is in a PGA Tour Monday qualifier because qualifiers are going for every pin every time to shoot the lowest 18 hole score.

 

Over 72 holes it’s not possible to be that aggressive and not have it completely backfire on you and end up with costly bogeys/doubles that really add up. 
 

If you watch all of Nicklaus’ Masters final round wins on YouTube, it’s uncanny how often he hits the middle of the green pin high on the right tier instead of going for the flag.

[RichieHunt]

1.  Avoid laying up off the tee as much as you can.  Laying up off the tee should be considered a last resort.  There's going to be obvious holes you can't hit driver because it's not feasible to do so, but many golfers get too lay-up happy and that's a particular problem if they are lousy with their 3-wood off the tee.

2.  If you don't hit your driver very far (say less than 250 yards)...learn to hit it fat.

3.  Even the pros don't really start firing at flags until they get about 150-yards and in.  And that's from the fairway or par-3 tee box (some pros will say they don't fire at flags from even those distances and conditions, but they essentially are or they are off Tour).  I don't know your hcp, but I probably wouldn't fire at too many flags until you're no more than 120 yards to the hole and in the short grass.  Everything else play for more of the center.

4.  Concern yourself more with distance control than directional control with your irons.  It appears you have some semblance of directional control and can consistently get the ball airborne.  So it's really your distance control to worry about.  Figure out what your carry yardages are on a launch monitor and what the deviation in distance is on semi-decent strikes or better.

5.  From there, learn about cover #'s on approach shots.  I recommend Tour pros have a cover number of +6 yards, low handicaps (3 or better) at +8 yards, mid-handicaps at +10 and high handicaps at +12 yards when it comes to front edges, and bunkers.  When it comes to water I'd keep it around +12 yards.  

6.  Yes, steer clear from water.  Great way to make double and kill your scorecard.

7.  Better distance control and better use of your cover #'s will get you to hit more GIR's and have more makeable birdie putts.  It will also mean less bunker shots and less shots in the drink.  

8.  On shots from the rough and many shots from more than 120 yards, it's not so much about playing for the center as it is playing for the fattest part of the green.  You may not make birdie if you have a 60-foot putt, but expected score values drop significantly if you're actually on the green and putting versus being closer but off the green and chipping.  Put it this way...if you took any course and made the greens twice as big...the course gets easier.

Hope this helps.


RH

[Saijin]

My coach just told me to note my averages from 5,10,15 & 20ft and by how much I miss, the next time I play. 
 

well this is gonna be anxiety inducing…..

[Saijin]

19 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

The only time to be super aggressive is in a PGA Tour Monday qualifier because qualifiers are going for every pin every time to shoot the lowest 18 hole score.

 

Over 72 holes it’s not possible to be that aggressive and not have it completely backfire on you and end up with costly bogeys/doubles that really add up. 
 

If you watch all of Nicklaus’ Masters final round wins on YouTube, it’s uncanny how often he hits the middle of the green pin high on the right tier instead of going for the flag.

But it’s so much fun though yesterday!

 

it’s a little anxiety inducing on those hard pins but it felt so good when you nailed it over and over again.