Making more birdies while still avoiding bogeys?

[Andrews22]

I played 5 rounds in the last two weeks and made 7 birdies. Three of those rounds were also at short courses with one of them from the whites.

 

I started this summer at a 6.8 handicap and have gotten it down to 5.0. My main focus in doing so was bogey avoidance and eliminating doubles (or worse) as much as possible. I've reached the goals that I set but I've seemed to hit a wall. While there are still dumb mistakes that lead to bogeys, I'm not making birdies at the rate I was previously, despite more chances and significantly improved wedge proximity.

 

Below are my stats from the past two weeks. While I am focusing on hitting more fairways, the numbers at course A are skewed as my target on 4 holes are done other fairways or in the rough. Otherwise I found the rating important to include as the only way I can improve my handicap is to go under par at these courses, hence the need for birdies.

 

 

My putting is the glaring weakness in my game. My wedge play is by far the best part of my game while my iron play and short game are good enough. My driving, while not the straightest, is long enough to avoid most trouble and has predictable misses that allow me to avoid penalties. As long as I give myself an angle into the green my wedge play gives me plenty of looks. However, my putting consistently lets me down. When I first wanted to make this post last week after three rounds, I had counted 13 putts for birdie from inside 12 feet, only making one. In my focus to avoid bogeys, I tried really hard to eliminate three putts which meant almost lagging anything outside 8 feet.

 

While my putting is not where it needs to be to lower my handicap, I'm also looking for advice on mindset. In my bogey avoidance quest, I focused mostly on limiting the damage of par 3's and 4's, leaving only par 5's for scoring. It's almost like a mental block in my head where making a birdie on anything but a par 5 isn't possible. 

 

I've heard plenty of people say that getting from 5 to 0 is way harder than 10 to 5 or other higher handicaps. I feel like my swing, short game, and ball striking are there for me to improve but I need advice on putting and mindset that might allow for more birdies.

Edited July 19 by Andrews22
typos/clarity

[Johnny Biarritz]

I have some comments but I can’t get to my computer right now. That said, I do have a question, how much time do you spend practicing putting? Also, 1 out of 13 inside 12 feet isn’t as bad as you think it is for us mortals who don’t play golf in front of a video scope. I’ll be back.

[getitdaily]

Im a + cap. I avg juat about 4 birdies per round. Making birdies is hard. 

 

The 3 key things you will need to make more birdies...

 

1. Hit it longer and/or straighter off the tee.

2. Hit it closer on approach 

3. Make more putts inside 15 feet

 

1 and 2 are solely on getting better....improving your swing.

 

3 is about practice and then course conditions. 

 

Looking at the birdie avg for the 4.0 to 8.9 cap range on the am tour i play...NO ONE makes 2 birdies per round. 1 person is close at 13 birdies in 7 rounds but many guys barely avg 1.5 per round and most are 1 or fewer. 

 

So...improve your swing and do 1 and 2 above better. 

Edited July 19 by getitdaily

[Hawkeye77]

I think you are minimizing your below average stats off the tee.  For your handicap, you seem to making plenty of birdies but not a lot of detail on the short courses and no info on length on the "long" course or courses, i.e. overall length, especially the par 5s since those seem to be the source of your birdies, length on the par 3s . . . The courses don't "sound" all that challenging but even par is even par.  

 

I'd guess you'll get some input on stats that may be more valuable to keep for assessing your game. 

 

Better ball striking, more fairways, proximity to the hole . . . all pretty obvious I suppose.  Putt better.

[Saijin]

2 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Im a + cap. I avg juat about 4 birdies per round. Making birdies is hard. 

 

The 3 key things you will need to make more birdies...

 

1. Hit it longer and/or straighter off the tee.

2. Hit it closer on approach 

3. Make more putts inside 15 feet

 

1 and 2 are solely on getting better....improving your swing.

 

3 is about practice and then course conditions. 

 

Looking at the birdie avg for the 4.0 to 8.9 cap range on the am tour i play...NO ONE makes 2 birdies per round. 1 person is close at 13 birdies in 7 rounds but many guys barely avg 1.5 per round and most are 1 or fewer. 

 

So...improve your swing and do 1 and 2 above better. 

Wait 4-9 HC and no one makes 2 birdies per 18holes?!

 

so average is pars and bogeys? 
 

That sounds awfully bad for a single digit , no? I guess my expectations are skewed 

[getitdaily]

6 minutes ago, Saijin said:

Wait 4-9 HC and no one makes 2 birdies per 18holes?!

 

so average is pars and bogeys? 
 

That sounds awfully bad for a single digit , no? I guess my expectations are skewed 

Yep. Most folks dont make many birdies. Think about it...you have to hit it well off the tee and then hit it well into the green. Then, you have to make a putt on imperfect surfaces. 

 

Best opportunities, like OP said, are par 5s. But even those, you have to hit it well off the tee, then hit a solid long club into the green or hit a good wedge for your 3rd after a layup. 

 

I play with a good number of guys in the 3-6 range and there's just not enough consistency in their games to get many good looks.

[Saijin]

6 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Yep. Most folks dont make many birdies. Think about it...you have to hit it well off the tee and then hit it well into the green. Then, you have to make a putt on imperfect surfaces. 

 

Best opportunities, like OP said, are par 5s. But even those, you have to hit it well off the tee, then hit a solid long club into the green or hit a good wedge for your 3rd after a layup. 

 

I play with a good number of guys in the 3-6 range and there's just not enough consistency in their games to get many good looks.

interesting. You’d think at around mid single hc you’d have at least a repeatable swing on average with very good misses. 

And also strategize and not just hit a driver when you know your flaws and tendencies to mitigate disastrous heavy holes. 

 

I knew a 3HC and all his swings were low punches. He can’t play with a normal full swing. But he does get some birdies whenever I played with him. 
 

he’s just not the longest so he’d have trouble with 590yds par 5 and longer par 4.
 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

There's a good reason better putters hit a lot of 3 ft putts on the practice green. When you learn to be more aggressive with birdie putts that are fairly straight and won't run away from you, you won't be afraid of the come backer.

[getitdaily]

15 minutes ago, Saijin said:

interesting. You’d think at around mid single hc you’d have at least a repeatable swing on average with very good misses. 

And also strategize and not just hit a driver when you know your flaws and tendencies to mitigate disastrous heavy holes. 

 

I knew a 3HC and all his swings were low punches. He can’t play with a normal full swing. But he does get some birdies whenever I played with him. 
 

he’s just not the longest so he’d have trouble with 590yds par 5 and longer par 4.
 

 

Yeah, from what I've observed, guys in the 2-7 range do a good job of keeping the ball in play and getting it around the hole. But they lack in 1 or more of the driver/approach/putting trifecta. And they're just not fantastic in any of them that would.lead to lots of opportunities. 

 

Played with 2 guys just like this yesterday..both about 5 caps

 

Player 1 - no birdies. Drives it well but approach play is usually good for hitting greens but rarely hits it close. He had 2 par 5 opportunities where he was greenside in 2 and didn't get up and down. 

 

Player 2 - driver comes and goes and approach play is same as player 1. He didn't make any birdies either. He had 3 solid opportunities...20 feet on 1 straight up a slight slope and 2 par 5s on the front where he didn't get up and down. He actually hit it to about 40 feet in 2 on the 2nd par 5 and 3putted from a really easy spot.

 

We also.played on greens that were running about 6 and the back 9 were still slightly recovering from being punched 3 or 4 weeks ago. 

 

Same tees as them, I made 5 birdies. All 4 par 5s and a really short par 4.

[rsballer10]

18 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Yeah, from what I've observed, guys in the 2-7 range do a good job of keeping the ball in play and getting it around the hole. But they lack in 1 or more of the driver/approach/putting trifecta. And they're just not fantastic in any of them that would.lead to lots of opportunities. 

 

Played with 2 guys just like this yesterday..both about 5 caps

 

Player 1 - no birdies. Drives it well but approach play is usually good for hitting greens but rarely hits it close. He had 2 par 5 opportunities where he was greenside in 2 and didn't get up and down. 

 

Player 2 - driver comes and goes and approach play is same as player 1. He didn't make any birdies either. He had 3 solid opportunities...20 feet on 1 straight up a slight slope and 2 par 5s on the front where he didn't get up and down. He actually hit it to about 40 feet in 2 on the 2nd par 5 and 3putted from a really easy spot.

 

We also.played on greens that were running about 6 and the back 9 were still slightly recovering from being punched 3 or 4 weeks ago. 

 

Same tees as them, I made 5 birdies. All 4 par 5s and a really short par 4.

This is pretty accurate. My experience as a player in this range is that its really hard to get iron shots in that make able birdie range. 15-20 feet and in. 2 putt range is a lot further away, and a lot easier to hit. Most birdies I get come from par 5s that I get up and down greenside and wedge shots inside 100 yards.

 

Hitting it longer helps, but eventually your going to have to be a great iron player to consistently get birdie looks. Even the best putters need to be consistently close to the hole to shine

[Saijin]

13 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Yeah, from what I've observed, guys in the 2-7 range do a good job of keeping the ball in play and getting it around the hole. But they lack in 1 or more of the driver/approach/putting trifecta. And they're just not fantastic in any of them that would.lead to lots of opportunities. 

 

Played with 2 guys just like this yesterday..both about 5 caps

 

Player 1 - no birdies. Drives it well but approach play is usually good for hitting greens but rarely hits it close. He had 2 par 5 opportunities where he was greenside in 2 and didn't get up and down. 

 

Player 2 - driver comes and goes and approach play is same as player 1. He didn't make any birdies either. He had 3 solid opportunities...20 feet on 1 straight up a slight slope and 2 par 5s on the front where he didn't get up and down. He actually hit it to about 40 feet in 2 on the 2nd par 5 and 3putted from a really easy spot.

 

We also.played on greens that were running about 6 and the back 9 were still slightly recovering from being punched 3 or 4 weeks ago. 

 

Same tees as them, I made 5 birdies. All 4 par 5s and a really short par 4.

Now that you mention it I now remember when I was a single digit…. I couldn’t trust my driver so I used a 2 or T3 wood off the tee. 
but I’ve always had power on my side so my wood still went 280-290 and my miss shots still go very long. 
 

that’s crazy that P1 and P2 don’t  have an iron game for a 5hc. 
 

You said the green stipend was a 6?? That’s super slow. 
 

I don’t think I’ve ever made birdies on all 4 par 5s lol. I’m curious now…. Gonna look at my stats for the last year. 

[Rbsiedsc]

1 hour ago, Saijin said:

interesting. You’d think at around mid single hc you’d have at least a repeatable swing on average with very good misses. 

And also strategize and not just hit a driver when you know your flaws and tendencies to mitigate disastrous heavy holes. 

 

I knew a 3HC and all his swings were low punches. He can’t play with a normal full swing. But he does get some birdies whenever I played with him. 
 

he’s just not the longest so he’d have trouble with 590yds par 5 and longer par 4.
 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

25 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

This is pretty accurate. My experience as a player in this range is that its really hard to get iron shots in that make able birdie range. 15-20 feet and in. 2 putt range is a lot further away, and a lot easier to hit. Most birdies I get come from par 5s that I get up and down greenside and wedge shots inside 100 yards.

 

Hitting it longer helps, but eventually your going to have to be a great iron player to consistently get birdie looks. Even the best putters need to be consistently close to the hole to shine

Also in this range, and I agree that @getitdaily's analysis is accurate. For me, I get lots of opportunities in the 20 foot range, but I'm trying not to three putt them rather than making them. 

 

Edit: most of my birdies come from chips, which is mad, but I feel like I can make anything around the green and nothing on it. 

Edited July 19 by TheDeanAbides

[StoutKing]

11 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

 

I believe tour average is 3.5

[goaliedad30]

11 minutes ago, StoutKing said:

I believe tour average is 3.5

 

And the average Tour player, if they carried a handicap, would probably be +6. So they're giving a 6 handicapper 12 shots! 

 

Overall, people seem to think a 5-6 handicapper is way better than they really are ...

[Urb]

3 cap here.  Above average in all phases but not elite in any.

 

GIRs are the key.  My scores absolutely track to GIRs, even with my brain dead strategy.  Outside of 125 yards, I pretty much ignore pins.  Just stack GIRs.  If a pin is close, I get a look at bird.  If a pin is tucked, then just two putt and find another opp.  If have wedge in hand, I'll shade a little towards the pin but still use middle as the bailout.  

 

Hitting it longer/straighter off the tee is the cheat code to more GIRs.  

 

The PGA make percentage from 20' is 15%.  Getting decent at putting is quick and low effort.  One or two lessons, then spend a little time a putting mirror hitting 5 footers + ladder drills. 

[Urb]

GIRs by handicap

 

https://thegrint.com/range/post/gir-handicap-golf-greens-regulation-target

 

Scratch only 60%.  

[Red4282]

Id agree with most the other posts. The path to getting better is making less bogeys. What is the cause of most of the bogeys? Putting doesnt seem like a weakness to me, with the number of putts per round. Yea 1/13 from inside 12 inst great but ideally you get that to 3-4/12 so you only are talking about 2-3 shots over four rounds.

[Johnny Biarritz]

Track your putting. 95% made from 3 feet and in is reasonable. From 6 feet, for us mortals, 50% is pretty much the limit; the break-even number for the Tour is 8 feet. Over ten feet, Tour average is about 5 makes "per event" (which I'd assume to mean 72 holes) and roughly 1 per event over 20 feet. 7.5 per event over 10 feet is the best on tour. What I'm saying is that no one makes many putts over 10 feet. It's unfair to judge yourself on results from that range. Look at your overall putts made between 3 and 10 feet, track that. 

 

Making a bunch of birdies basically doesn't happen. Tour average for 2025 is 3.7. The graphic for scratch players was listed above. Chasing birdies doesn't work. I've been as low as +3 and I've never made more than 6 birdies in a round. The one time I made 6 I shot a 78 because....well, I didn't keep bogeys (and worse) off the card. But I've had many, many times I shot between 67 and 72 with zero bogeys.

 

Here's my mindset. I want to play very boring golf. Fairway, green, 2 putts, onwards to the next hole. On the tee, I'm just thinking about getting the ball out in the short green grass. I don't worry about anything like "well, if I hit up the left side, that'll give better angle to the green." I want the ball on the green grass. Yes, I'll think about going up the left side if there is water down the right or something like that. When I'm in the fairway, I want the ball on or around the green. If the ball is on the fringe but I can use a putter, that's effectively hitting the green. Then I want to hit a good putt, enough to get 2 putts and close enough that the hole will get in the way of some of them. Keep three-putts and doubles off the card, you'll be OK.

[Andrews22]

I appreciate the responses. I thought that I had seen a stat the said scratch golfers make just under 3 birdies a round while 5 handicaps made around 1. Based on the responses that's probably not correct.

 

However, the lower rated courses are both around 5800 yards where playing even or better is the only way to get lower differentials. On the other course which plays around 6700 I definitely have work to do making less bogeys. The majority of my bogeys come from being out of position of the tee and having to punch out of the trees, or missing the green on longer par 3's.

[Andrews22]

12 hours ago, Johnny Biarritz said:

I have some comments but I can’t get to my computer right now. That said, I do have a question, how much time do you spend practicing putting? Also, 1 out of 13 inside 12 feet isn’t as bad as you think it is for us mortals who don’t play golf in front of a video scope. I’ll be back.

I spend about 30-45 minutes actually practicing about once a week and then I'll putt for a few minutes before each round. I hate practicing putting and I almost always just give myself various lag putts and trying to make two putts or less with two balls. 

 

8 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

There's a good reason better putters hit a lot of 3 ft putts on the practice green. When you learn to be more aggressive with birdie putts that are fairly straight and won't run away from you, you won't be afraid of the come backer.

Based on my current practice this seems like something I could work on. 

[Andrews22]

Final point for right now, I'm preparing to play a bigger golf course for school. At the current golf courses I'm playing, I hit a lot of lob wedges in to par 4's with a few longer wedges, and only one hole out of the three courses where I could realistically hit an iron. The par 5's are generally just over 500 yards which usually plays as driver, long iron. The par 3's are just slightly shorter than the course I'll play for school.

 

The course I play at school is around 7000 yards with par 5's around 540-570 and only 4 of the par 4's playing at or below 400 yards, realistically my only non-par 5 birdie opportunities. My current rate of bogeys will go up and I won't be able to avoid some doubles. The only saving grace is that the course has almost no trees in play and is very forgiving off of the tee. Based on that, I know that my lack of fairways will not be punished anywhere near as much as they are now. But if I'm not able to make birdies from 1200 yards shorter, I'm concerned I won't be able to get any of bogeys that come from the length back.

[getitdaily]

8 hours ago, Saijin said:

Now that you mention it I now remember when I was a single digit…. I couldn’t trust my driver so I used a 2 or T3 wood off the tee. 
but I’ve always had power on my side so my wood still went 280-290 and my miss shots still go very long. 
 

that’s crazy that P1 and P2 don’t  have an iron game for a 5hc. 
 

You said the green stipend was a 6?? That’s super slow. 
 

I don’t think I’ve ever made birdies on all 4 par 5s lol. I’m curious now…. Gonna look at my stats for the last year. 

Yeah, dead of summer in central florida...everyone is going through punch cycles and lots of afternoon rain. These were abnormally slow but most public courses around here, this time.of year, are slow...really slow

 

Par 5s typically determine my score...I've birdied them all a bunch. 

[MonteScheinblum]

One of the smartest things ever said about improving your score in golf.

 

”The best golfers in the world only average 4 more birdies a round than a guy who shoots 120”

 

Just like you don’t lower your score by making more putts, it’s 3 putt avoidance……lowering your scores isn’t about making more birdies it’s making fewer more than bogey holes.

[SNIPERBBB]

1 hour ago, Andrews22 said:

. My current rate of bogeys will go up and I won't be able to avoid some doubles. .

Why can't you avoid doubles? Unless you got stupid greens where you can't hold them on approach shots, you have to have penalty shots or hit one or two bad shots to make double 

[Shilgy]

13 hours ago, Urb said:

GIRs by handicap

 

https://thegrint.com/range/post/gir-handicap-golf-greens-regulation-target

 

Scratch only 60%.  

Only? PGA tour average is “only” about 66%.

[Andrews22]

6 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Why can't you avoid doubles? Unless you got stupid greens where you can't hold them on approach shots, you have to have penalty shots or hit one or two bad shots to make double 

It's a Pete Dye course, tiny greens and few good spots to miss. Not an excuse but besides length the greens and around the greens are the defense of the course. I'm generally a good chipper and there are very few up and downs I'd expect to make. Otherwise, I'm a 5 handicap playing a very hard golf course. I'm bound to make mistakes that will be punished by the course.

[getitdaily]

5 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Only? PGA tour average is “only” about 66%.

I think pga tour stats on birdies per round and gir are a bit bunk. 

 

They play such abnormal conditions as the majority of us...faster greens and harder surfaces so they have to manage landing spots and bounce where we almost never have to. 

 

They also play pins that are cut into tight spots. You'll often see a missed green where the ball.ends up on the fringe or just off the green but closer to the hole than had they played safe. 

 

Pros also have to be super aggressive. You gotta make birdies if you want to stay on tour...

[Hawkeye77]

 

12 hours ago, Andrews22 said:

Final point for right now, I'm preparing to play a bigger golf course for school. At the current golf courses I'm playing, I hit a lot of lob wedges in to par 4's with a few longer wedges, and only one hole out of the three courses where I could realistically hit an iron. The par 5's are generally just over 500 yards which usually plays as driver, long iron. The par 3's are just slightly shorter than the course I'll play for school.

 

The course I play at school is around 7000 yards with par 5's around 540-570 and only 4 of the par 4's playing at or below 400 yards, realistically my only non-par 5 birdie opportunities. My current rate of bogeys will go up and I won't be able to avoid some doubles. The only saving grace is that the course has almost no trees in play and is very forgiving off of the tee. Based on that, I know that my lack of fairways will not be punished anywhere near as much as they are now. But if I'm not able to make birdies from 1200 yards shorter, I'm concerned I won't be able to get any of bogeys that come from the length back.

 

I think your focus is still on birdies and a little distorted by the pitch and putt lob wedge course.

 

You are probably right, your game will be "exposed" by having to actually hit iron shots other than lob wedge or wedge so work on your game in all areas and improve (I assume it needs improving) your ball striking.  At least you'll get a better sense of where you are at playing a variety of shots but I agree it's not where you will somehow find birdies that is the issue and be realistic about the scores you'll be making.

 

[iacas]

Everyone here can do themselves a favor and look up the strategies of the two best players in the last 25 years have done. Tiger and Scottie have traditionally, outside of even 50 yards:

• Aimed toward the fat side of the green.
• Sought to be pin high (except on highly sloped greens to slightly short, as greens are typically back to front).

Even from as little as 75 yards… they'll aim toward the fat side of the green.

 

If you care primarily about your index, sure, be aggressive inside of 100 yards, even 140 or so. You'll have a few lower rounds, and since we only count eight, the 12 rounds that leave you with a few too many short-sided shots* and too many bogeys.

 

True good, solid golf, though, is still conservative, even from 50 yards. It doesn't mean you're aiming 20 feet right from 50 yards. It means you're shading a yard right if the pin is tucked left.

 

Another thing I'm not sure I've seen noted: get really good at your distance control inside of 15 feet. Too many amateurs leave too many putts inside this range short. Your distance control — even right now — shouldn't be so bad that trying to "make" a 15-footer (assuming it's not a "yellow light putt") should have you hitting it over 2.5' past the hole very often. If you do… you really need to work on distance control because your speed changes your read. For others, stop leaving putts from this range short. A shocking # of golfers do this. You don't get a lot of these in a round — get 'em to the hole and give them a chance (while also being aware that you're not even going to make probably 60% from 8').

 

All that said, there are some shots in a round that suit you. You hit a low skipping draw with your PW, and there's a back left pin with water behind it… maybe the shot suits your eye and you can land a ball middle of the green and skip it back before it grabs. Or something else just lights up for you. Now, it's still important to learn which ones are true light-you-up moments that fall into your strong suit (just as you have to learn what the opposite situations are) versus the ones you just want to be those moments, but in those cases… go for it.

 

For example, one of the Tour players with whom we've worked was a phenomenal wedge player inside of about a 20-yard range. When he got a shot in that range, it didn't matter where… he fired at the hole. Not a yard left, or a yard short… right at it. For a few years. (But, I will also note… he wasn't so good from that range that if he could get 30 yards closer… it was a smart play to lay back. At 10 yards, even 15… sure. At 20 it was pretty much even.)

 

Again, if you want to play golf for fun, and would rather fire a net 67 to cancel out your net 78… be more aggressive. There will be days your variance has you hitting a bunch of shots tight. If you want a more solid game, which is what survives on the PGA Tour (they play four-round events after all), then the play is aggressive off the tee, conservative into the greens, and then letting your good putting variance days carry the scoring (along with raising your putting baseline).

 

* 

Spoiler

 

From Lou Stagner's most recent newsletter. Short siding yourself by his definition is not great, even on "the greens we play".