Right Hand, Right Eye Dominant Golfers

[iceman1118]

After seeing a very good post from @virtuoso regarding right hand and right eye dominant golfers, I think it is time to start a topic on this. He and I have touched on this via PM before, and I have been hesitant to start a thread on it, but I think it would be good to get a discussion going. 
 

Being rear eye dominant poses some issues in the golf swing. I think we tend to have less than 90 degrees of shoulder turn in the backswing (otherwise we lose sight of the ball), tend to be overall more open at impact or the right shoulder stalls (seems to me that a big lateral hip shift happens before the shorter backswing ends), have to play with a stronger grip and more shut face through the bag due to being more open at impact, and the big one to me is feel like we are looking at the target before impact even happens, sort of like Stenson and Sorenstam. 

Also, I think a really important part of this is we should favor much more of a pull cut or straight shot. At setup, I generally feel like I have to have my right eye directly above the ball, from drives, irons, chipping and putting. It makes covering irons way easier and the slight pull cut is easily attainable. I also believe using an intermediate point for alignment is difficult because a spot on the ground looks way off to me. So to step in to any shot I have to be looking out at my target, never at the ground. But I always find it very difficult to be consistent with driver because of the “on top of the ball” nature of the setup. Of If I play the ball too far forward and my head starts tilting to see the ball, absolute disaster ensues and my swing becomes the unfolding lawn chair we all know too well. And if I do set up with my rear eye over the ball and add some spine tilt, I still have an awkward looking setup and feel terribly uncomfortable. I find as a rear eye dominant player with driver that I either get way too quick and I snap hook the snot out of it or it’s just a straight push. I have a very hard time playing the Dustin Johnson slight pull cut.
 

Would love to hear others thoughts on this. I feel like a support group for the rear eye dominant golfer is needed. In case anyone missed it, here is @virtuoso list of his ideas on right eye dominance:

 

Right eye dominant people set up with a certain neck alignment to keep their right eye on the ball. In order to move the body in a way that accommodates that they should:

 

Have a stronger grip

Take it back more inside and handle moves more out in transition

Shaft tends to shallow more in tranny as handle moves out

Have the face angle more closed

Not turn the hips back quite as much

Less pelvis lateral shift coming down and sternum stays on top of pelvis more (less torso tilt away from target)

Have a flatter swing plane

Have a much more active torso rotation through the ball

More forward handle lean

More straight to slight fade

Lower traj

Less forearm rotation through impact

Head swivels targetward earlier in downswing

More Cowx Type B release (left wrist moving into flexion to square face)

 

 

Edited July 19 by iceman1118

[Hawkeye77]

The most cited stat indicates 65% of right handed folks are right eye dominant.

 

Would expect the average on the PGAT and among the best players to be the same.

 

Is that list something the best players are doing overall? 

[iceman1118]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

The most cited stat indicates 65% of right handed folks are right eye dominant.

 

Would expect the average on the PGAT and among the best players to be the same.

 

Is that list something the best players are doing overall? 

You are correct, majority of the population is same side dominant. 
 

However, I have seen info stating somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-85% of tour pros are cross dominant. 
 

I believe that elite golfers who are same side dominant have most of these traits. I could be way off base, but not entirely sure I am

[virtuoso]

It would be cool to do a poll to see how many each we have floating around here. A lot of people don’t even know what they are.

[Brokensticks]

1 hour ago, iceman1118 said:

You are correct, majority of the population is same side dominant. 
 

However, I have seen info stating somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-85% of tour pros are cross dominant. 
 

I believe that elite golfers who are same side dominant have most of these traits. I could be way off base, but not entirely sure I am

Makes perfect sense. 
 

Being able to have your dominant eye on the ball even if you wind up must be something good. 

[Choclab]

I'm right handed and left-eye dominant.

 

Hasn't helped me a bit.  

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, iceman1118 said:

You are correct, majority of the population is same side dominant. 
 

However, I have seen info stating somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-85% of tour pros are cross dominant. 
 

I believe that elite golfers who are same side dominant have most of these traits. I could be way off base, but not entirely sure I am

Yep, that number gets tossed around a lot but the actual source?  I assume it's something people keep quoting whether accurately, but don't know the methodology or even if it was only tour pros, etc. Would be interesting to read.

 

Does cross dominant necessarily eliminate whatever compensations are claimed for right eye dominant players? Does it make that much difference that swing compensations are a recipe or should be coached for right eye dominant players? No scientist here, but skeptical . . .

[Sean124]

I assumed like 90% of right handed golfers were right eye dominant 

[Nels55]

Here is a video on this topic that seems interesting:

I don't seem to have very strong eye dominance.   I can't do the simple eye dominance tests like pointing at something and then closing one eye as I see two fingers and put the target between the two.  Eye doctors have found me to be right eye dominant though.  When I had cataracts and my vision was constantly changing I sometimes found it better to keep my right eye shut while swinging. 

[golferdude54]

6 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Here is a video on this topic that seems interesting:

I don't seem to have very strong eye dominance.   I can't do the simple eye dominance tests like pointing at something and then closing one eye as I see two fingers and put the target between the two.  Eye doctors have found me to be right eye dominant though.  When I had cataracts and my vision was constantly changing I sometimes found it better to keep my right eye shut while swinging. 

You gotta find a Bullseye putter and film yourself in FO view setting it up vertically and dead center of your stance with one eye open and the other closed.

From your perspective, you need to have the shaft split the heel right in the middle, like the SeeMore Riflescope dot.

 

Then play back the video and see which eye actually got the shaft vertical or closest to it. That will be your dominant eye, it’s the most precise and golf specific test I could find/make for discovering eye dominance.

[golferdude54]

Trevino for sure had to be right eye dominant. All that foot shuffling to move the ball back under his right eye in his stance before he took the club back. And then only turning back far enough to stop at the point where his nose wouldn’t block the ball from his right eye. 

[iceman1118]

42 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Yep, that number gets tossed around a lot but the actual source?  I assume it's something people keep quoting whether accurately, but don't know the methodology or even if it was only tour pros, etc. Would be interesting to read.

 

Does cross dominant necessarily eliminate whatever compensations are claimed for right eye dominant players? Does it make that much difference that swing compensations are a recipe or should be coached for right eye dominant players? No scientist here, but skeptical . . .

For actual proof, not entirely sure about anything scientific. It has been written and talked about. How credited these are, who knows

 

https://richardhughesopticians.ie/a-clear-vision-for-success-survey-results-on-eye-dominance-among-elite-golfers/

 

https://theleftrough.com/eye-dominance-in-golf/
 

Dr Greg Rose of TPI has a good snippet in this one:

 

https://golf.com/instruction/struggle-alignment-eye-dominance-play-smart/?srsltid=AfmBOopyOXhx-sgUQ8weqCEDOqthZyAp-OYncWZiKqSNqNOU1as699jt

 

I will say this from personal experience. The bigger turn I make, the fatter I hit it. I generally struggle with the Justin Rose keep the back to the target idea. “Neutral” grip, all shots are weak and fall short and right. Under pressure, my right shoulder stalls during my pivot. When I am playing my absolute best (been a steady 2 handicap for about 4 years now), all of shots are pull cuts. If I start drawing the ball, trouble is knocking on my doorstep. Coincidence? Honestly no clue. 
 

Do you know your eye dominance?

[iceman1118]

3 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

Trevino for sure had to be right eye dominant. All that foot shuffling to move the ball back under his right eye in his stance before he took the club back. And then only turning back far enough to stop at the point where his nose wouldn’t block the ball from his right eye. 

I totally agree with this. Stronger grip, open stance, played a reliable fade. 

[Hawkeye77]

19 minutes ago, iceman1118 said:

For actual proof, not entirely sure about anything scientific. It has been written and talked about. How credited these are, who knows

 

https://richardhughesopticians.ie/a-clear-vision-for-success-survey-results-on-eye-dominance-among-elite-golfers/

 

https://theleftrough.com/eye-dominance-in-golf/
 

Dr Greg Rose of TPI has a good snippet in this one:

 

https://golf.com/instruction/struggle-alignment-eye-dominance-play-smart/?srsltid=AfmBOopyOXhx-sgUQ8weqCEDOqthZyAp-OYncWZiKqSNqNOU1as699jt

 

I will say this from personal experience. The bigger turn I make, the fatter I hit it. I generally struggle with the Justin Rose keep the back to the target idea. “Neutral” grip, all shots are weak and fall short and right. Under pressure, my right shoulder stalls during my pivot. When I am playing my absolute best (been a steady 2 handicap for about 4 years now), all of shots are pull cuts. If I start drawing the ball, trouble is knocking on my doorstep. Coincidence? Honestly no clue. 
 

Do you know your eye dominance?

The first one is a survey of a lot more than pros and not much insight, the second is what is already noted, the third isn't a study so none of those are really all that useful.  As I said if there is a source for the study, if it is one, of cross dominant tour pros I'm interested to read it and assume it exists somewhere.

 

I'm right hand, right eye and don't have to move my body to see the target at address as Rose suggests, nor any interference seeing the target at address, but if some do, they do.  After using my eyes all my life I tend to know what I see or how something looks when it's right and I'd think that would be the same for most people.  If my nose is in the way, haha, I suppose that's part of the picture, not something I'm moving around because of but now I'll be thinking of it, thanks a lot.  😀

 

LOL, I don't need to be part of a support group and I am confident my swing issues have nothing to do with my right eye dominance and no expert, but I can tell you some of the listed prescriptions 100% no bueno for me but everyone is different and I guess if this issue is causing them a problem because of some compensations they make for whatever reason in certain ways, no doubt they need help and maybe that's what some of all that addresses.  

Edited July 19 by Hawkeye77

[Hawkeye77]

19 minutes ago, iceman1118 said:

I totally agree with this. Stronger grip, open stance, played a reliable fade. 

 

Nicklaus = not a strong grip, left eye dominant, right hand dominant and played an uber reliable fade.  

[Nels55]

26 minutes ago, iceman1118 said:

I totally agree with this. Stronger grip, open stance, played a reliable fade. 

Trevino switched to a draw late in his career.  He still kept his trail eye on the ball and used an open stance.

[iceman1118]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

The first one is a survey of a lot more than pros and not much insight, the second is what is already noted, the third isn't a study so none of those are really all that useful.  As I said if there is a source for the study, if it is one, of cross dominant tour pros I'm interested to read it and assume it exists somewhere.

 

I'm right hand, right eye and don't have to move my body to see the target at address as Rose suggests, nor any interference seeing the target at address, but if some do, they do.  After using my eyes all my life I tend to know what I see or how something looks when it's right and I'd think that would be the same for most people.  If my nose is in the way, haha, I suppose that's part of the picture, not something I'm moving around because of but now I'll be thinking of it, thanks a lot.  😀

 

LOL, I don't need to be part of a support group and I am confident my swing issues have nothing to do with my right eye dominance and no expert, but I can tell you some of the listed prescriptions 100% no bueno for me but everyone is different and I guess if this issue is causing them a problem because of some compensations they make for whatever reason in certain ways, no doubt they need help and maybe that's what some of all that addresses.  

I did state I know nothing of the credibility. Just that there is info out there. 
 

I think most people have no clue if they are aimed correctly, which in this case would be you stating “using your eyes all your life”. So maybe you are an exception, maybe I am an exception, again, who the hell knows for sure

 

If you don’t need to be part of a support group you do not have to post in here. Just taking the other side because that’s your usual posting situation then fine, but for some people this is an actual way to play golf. If you play another way, that’s great man. Good luck and God bless.

[iceman1118]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Nicklaus = not a strong grip, left eye dominant, right hand dominant and played an uber reliable fade.  

Nowhere did I state these are hard rules. Just something I have discussed with another member here who really knows his stuff. So again, just trying to start a discussion. You do not have to be a part of it 

[iceman1118]

6 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Trevino switched to a draw late in his career.  He still kept his trail eye on the ball and used an open stance.

Also correct, but maybe he couldn’t turn through the ball as hard as he could when he was younger. So maybe his fade became less reliable. I don’t know the reason he switched. He has also gone on record stating his great weakened over time because he couldn’t turn through at the same speed as when he was younger. 

[Hawkeye77]

5 minutes ago, iceman1118 said:

Just taking the other side because that’s your usual posting situation then fine, but for some people this is an actual way to play golf. If you play another way, that’s great man. Good luck and God bless.

 

No, "just taking the other side" is not my usual posting situation and simply agreeing with whatever premise isn't a requirement for responding nor really gets far into the weeds of learning anything.  I asked some questions, shared what I know from my experience, no reason for the little sideswipe. 

[iceman1118]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

No, "just taking the other side" is not my usual posting situation and simply agreeing with whatever premise isn't a requirement for responding nor really gets far into the weeds of learning anything.  I asked some questions, shared what I know from my experience, no reason for the little sideswipe. 

I am trying to offer some people who are struggling some potential advice. Maybe support group was a strong term. Simple math, majority of population if same side dominant. Hence majority of golfers are. So I assume people are and don’t even know it. People come here to learn. If this doesn’t apply to you, just move on. You said your swing issues have nothing to do with your eye dominance. If you are sure of it, then why bother getting involved if you are just looking to nit pick? And out of curiosity, how do you know your swing issues are not related to your eye dominance? 

[Hawkeye77]

11 minutes ago, iceman1118 said:

Nowhere did I state these are hard rules. Just something I have discussed with another member here who really knows his stuff. So again, just trying to start a discussion. You do not have to be a part of it 

 

Simply provided a recognizable counter to the Trevino example, assuming Lee was right eye dominant. 

[Jtgavigan]

I am right handed and right eye dominant and am almost the opposite of everything you describe and have been for a while.

[Hawkeye77]

Just now, iceman1118 said:

I am trying to offer some people who are struggling some potential advice. Maybe support group was a strong term. Simple math, majority of population if same side dominant. Hence majority of golfers are. So I assume people are and don’t even know it. People come here to learn. If this doesn’t apply to you, just move on. You said your swing issues have nothing to do with your eye dominance. If you are sure of it, then why bother getting involved if you are just looking to nit pick? And out of curiosity, how do you know your swing issues are not related to your eye dominance? 

 

Not nit picking, lol, I'm discussing and not trying to limit the parameters of the discussion.  What's the problem?

 

No reason to get all defensive - some folks are curious and enjoy learning stuff.

 

We're back to the beginning - if most golfers are right eye dominant and right hand dominant and that applies to the best players in the world there wouldn't seem to be much in advocating compensations.  If there is something unique about the best players, there may be something in it - I'm interested in whether that is the case. 

[iceman1118]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Simply provided a recognizable counter to the Trevino example, assuming Lee was right eye dominant. 

I can’t, I assuming. Outside of things that are measurable with the golf swing, how can we know for sure unless he states it. But I assume he is because of the traits listed above. Early in his career when he played a fade, those traits seemed like they applied to him. These traits help my game. Maybe they will help some others. The traits don’t help you, that’s fine. There is no one size fits all. I started this to try to start a discussion. Not have the usual BS occur. And here we are. 

[iceman1118]

2 minutes ago, Jtgavigan said:

I am right handed and right eye dominant and am almost the opposite of everything you describe and have been for a while.

Totally fair. I don’t believe these are hard and fast traits like I said. Just some commonalities. 
 

so for example, how do you aim? Do you use and intermediate point? Look at your target?

[iceman1118]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Not nit picking, lol, I'm discussing and not trying to limit the parameters of the discussion.  What's the problem?

 

No reason to get all defensive - some folks are curious and enjoy learning stuff.

 

We're back to the beginning - if most golfers are right eye dominant and right hand dominant and that applies to the best players in the world there wouldn't seem to be much in advocating compensations.  If there is something unique about the best players, there may be something in it - I'm interested in whether that is the case. 

Something unique to the best players who are right eye dominant is when the head is looking at or towards the target during impact. Look at Tiger and Jack, head is still down, I am presuming because the left eye can still see the ball. Stenson, Sorenstam, Duval their heads are looking down the target line. Now they also have 3 different grip strengths. Duval is super strong, Stenson seems slightly strong and Annika looks neutral. Again, I don’t think it’s hard and fast. I think there are commonalities. 

[Hawkeye77]

4 minutes ago, iceman1118 said:

Something unique to the best players who are right eye dominant is when the head is looking at or towards the target during impact. Look at Tiger and Jack, head is still down, I am presuming because the left eye can still see the ball. Stenson, Sorenstam, Duval their heads are looking down the target line. Now they also have 3 different grip strengths. Duval is super strong, Stenson seems slightly strong and Annika looks neutral. Again, I don’t think it’s hard and fast. I think there are commonalities. 

 

Trevino = head really down at impact.  So?

 

Stenson, Sorenstam and Duval seem to be outliers among pros they way they move their heads - maybe there is something in it, no idea if it relates to their eyes, but I'd venture it's a move not common to right eye dominant golfers? Should it be? No idea. Maybe someone has data on that.

Edited July 19 by Hawkeye77

[iceman1118]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Trevino = head really down at impact.  So?

 

Stenson, Sorenstam and Duval seem to be outliers among pros they way they move their heads - maybe there is something in it, no idea if it relates to their eyes, but I'd venture it's a move not common to right eye dominant golfers? Should it be? No idea. Maybe someone has data on that.

This is my point. Maybe there is something, maybe there isn’t. Just trying to hear some opinions. If it’s all bunk, then fine, I will continue to play my game and won’t lost any sleep over this. Same if it isn’t. 

[Hawkeye77]

59 minutes ago, iceman1118 said:

This is my point. Maybe there is something, maybe there isn’t. Just trying to hear some opinions. If it’s all bunk, then fine, I will continue to play my game and won’t lost any sleep over this. Same if it isn’t. 

Is it swing or alignment or both that is the source of concern?