Cheating

[caligolfer2103]

I've never really thought about this much. Almost always, it's the kids who see the cheating and then tell their parents. The guidance there seems pretty straightforward - report it but don't get bothered by it.

But, what happens when it's the parent seeing the cheating? At a tournament yesterday, I was walking behind my son's group. The far player was pinned against a tree and I saw him kick the ball away from the tree and then use his foot to roll it even further away to give himself a better lie. None of the other kids saw it. For full context, this tournament was only semi-serious (Players Tour in SoCal) so its kids who are trying to make the higher level circuits but scores can range from 1-2 under to as high as 90+. What would you have done?

I decided not to formally report it; however, as I passed by, I said "Bud, I saw what you did. Don't do it again, or I'll report it." And I told my son to keep an eye on him rest of the round. I made my choice for a few reasons... 1) I have a soft spot in my heart for kids under a lot of pressure to succeed. It's not "right" but it's how I am. But that wasn't really the main reason. 2) I felt weird that this would then become a parent vs. kid "he said/he said" and that felt very odd to me versus a kid vs. kid situation. 3) While his dad wasn't following along, many of the parents do wait at the scorer's table. And I didn't want to risk a confrontation given this isn't high level golf.

 

I even debated whether to say anything to him. But reasoned the alternative to that was me calling in a course official to make it a bigger deal so this seemed like a reasonable compromise.

[DArnie]

You did well

[golferdad8]

Cheaters eventually get caught so you did a good thing by helping him & giving him a warning.
 

The only risk was if the kid did poorly after you spoke & the parents accused you of intimidating their kid (which luckily wasn’t an issue here). 

[caligolfer2103]

12 minutes ago, golferdad8 said:

Cheaters eventually get caught so you did a good thing by helping him & giving him a warning.
 

The only risk was if the kid did poorly after you spoke & the parents accused you of intimidating their kid (which luckily wasn’t an issue here). 

Yep. That's why I didn't want to get involved. Confrontation is fine until the other side is a little too crazy and things escalate. So I was trying to find a fair place to be with minimal risk of going haywire.

[Albatross Dreamer]

That seems to be a good way to go about it. The only thing that may or may not have made sense was framing it slightly different. Instead of “don’t do it again or I’ll report you” perhaps something such as “I’ve seen you play and you’re too good of a player to be doing that”. Basically try to encourage the kid and appeal to a positive reason not to do it.

 

To me would depend on the level of play, age of kids, etc as there’s not necessarily anything wrong with what you said as well.

[eddiebigeddie]

Kids cheat all the time! 🤦🏻‍♂️. Makes it worse when a coaches kid cheats and the coach “stays away” from the kid so he can deny what’s happening. 

[57charlie]

One of the tenets of golf is that it's expected to teach integrity and honesty. I would have given the kid a chance to call a penalty (unplayable lie) on himself and if he didn't I would have found an official.

[jda]

It is going to get worse.  Even some college kids will cheat a bit - seen it with my own eyes.

 

When I was there as a parent, I just let everything go.  I was there to spectate, not get involved, talk, coach or help.

 

As a coach, I will let the other coach know and/or the parents.  Don't make it about you and it is nearly always OK, especially when you are wearing a coaches shirt.  "I saw Johnny kick a ball away from a tree.  I wanted to let you know so that you could do with it what you will."  Smile and walk away.  Coaches get better treatment than another parent (which are usually wrongly seen as the enemy).

 

It is hard for many outsiders to realize that many kids and most of their parents don't want your help or input, you are not part of their community (they have a swing, putting and mental coaches as well as a general therapist) and some don't give a darn about the history or integrity of any game.  This can change as they age and continue with the game.  The few families that would be happy to receive help usually do not need it.

 

There will be less cheating as kids get closer to college, but still plenty.  The older kids who cheat just don't realize how it hurts them since everybody usually knows who they are and most college coaches only have their jobs if they graduate honest, good kids and winning is not as important as staying out of trouble - these coaches don't want cheaters.  The coaches at the super top programs who MUST win know that cheaters don't win.  It sucks, but they are only hurting themselves.

[LawGenius305]

Cheating is found at all levels.

[Tugu]

Kind of recently a decent name school's coach came to scout a kid I've known for years. Father was witnessed BY THE COACH kicking a errant ball back onto the fairway. 

 

A big hullabaloo ensued with the AJGA official when others who witnessed the incident reported the matter. The father protested that the ball struck him and rebounded.

 

Kid never ever heard from the coach again. He ended up committing to a MUCH lesser school.

 

Fast forward to couple of weeks ago and same kid went -4 and then +10, then promptly WD.

 

Cheating is rampant in the sense that it happens in every tournament. But it's done by a small minority of kids.

[tatertot]

17 hours ago, 57charlie said:

One of the tenets of golf is that it's expected to teach integrity and honesty. I would have given the kid a chance to call a penalty (unplayable lie) on himself and if he didn't I would have found an official.

Golf doesn't teach integrity ... it reveals it.

[eddiebigeddie]

I was an assistant up until last fall when my son finished his Senior year.  I was also the statistician/score avg person for the team.  I watched the coaches kid not break 40 during any 9 hole qualifiers, matches, etc. (12 events).  His Best tourney round was 79 twice, but avg tourney score was an 87.  In the last week of the season we had a conference tourney and also a district tourney 2 days apart.  The day before the conf. tourney I took my son, coaches kid and 2 others out for a practice round...coached kid lost 10 balls in 6 holes before he quit.  Then the next day miraculously shoots an even par 36 to finish 1 shot behind my son and take second place.  2 days later on a very hard course with hardest pin locations the course could have had (admitted by hosting coach) my son & another top player in district both shoot +2 to tie and the 3rd best player shoots a +4...that is until the coaches kid comes strolling in with a +1 score.  Not one person on our team and several of the other teams that knew the kid could believe what we were being told.  But when I asked the kids/coaches that he was playing against 2 of the kids said they didn't pay attention to him because they were trying to play and the one that actually kept his score said he just wrote down whatever he was told because he was a new golfer that isn't very good and didn't know to actually watch him.  Was so pissed off for so many reasons, but I couldn't say a word since I didn't follow him any that day. There's more to the story & how we know they had been cheating, but I'll leave that for local ears only.

[golfortennis]

1 minute ago, eddiebigeddie said:

I was an assistant up until last fall when my son finished his Senior year.  I was also the statistician/score avg person for the team.  I watched the coaches kid not break 40 during any 9 hole qualifiers, matches, etc. (12 events).  His Best tourney round was 79 twice, but avg tourney score was an 87.  In the last week of the season we had a conference tourney and also a district tourney 2 days apart.  The day before the conf. tourney I took my son, coaches kid and 2 others out for a practice round...coached kid lost 10 balls in 6 holes before he quit.  Then the next day miraculously shoots an even par 36 to finish 1 shot behind my son and take second place.  2 days later on a very hard course with hardest pin locations the course could have had (admitted by hosting coach) my son & another top player in district both shoot +2 to tie and the 3rd best player shoots a +4...that is until the coaches kid comes strolling in with a +1 score.  Not one person on our team and several of the other teams that knew the kid could believe what we were being told.  But when I asked the kids/coaches that he was playing against 2 of the kids said they didn't pay attention to him because they were trying to play and the one that actually kept his score said he just wrote down whatever he was told because he was a new golfer that isn't very good and didn't know to actually watch him.  Was so pissed off for so many reasons, but I couldn't say a word since I didn't follow him any that day. There's more to the story & how we know they had been cheating, but I'll leave that for local ears only.

 

You really shouldn't give us popcorn and then say no butter!  😀

 

This reminds of a thread in a tennis forum.  Apparently the cheating is just as bad in junior tennis, with the added angle of, especially on the girls' side, a bigger player intimidating a smaller player into going along.  The point was made, no one in their right mind would ever scheduled a basketball game, football, whatever without officials, yet in tennis we expect these kids to make their own calls and be honest about it.  Especially if they have played other sports where there is an attitude "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'" , or "well if the ref didn't call it it wasn't a penalty."  When you think about it, it makes no sense.

 

I know that it is even tougher in golf to get some eyes on people, and once again, with kids, can we really expect them to be willing to call someone out?  They are taught to focus on their own game, and then add to that the social factors:  intimidation, could be a friend of theirs, not to mention the fact that society today seems to think that standing up for the rules in a competition makes you the bad guy rather than the guy who cheated.  I don't know the answer, but it's sad it has come to this, although cheating has been around forever.  When the Patrick Reed stuff in San Diego blew up, I think Chamblee was saying how an old pro told him of a guy who would always put his hands on the ball as soon as he could, because it then gives him the opportunity to somewhat dictates what happens next.  So it's nothing new.  But it's sad that "what can you do about it" is the common refrain.  Not an illogical one, given how there seems to be next to no backup for the person who brings it up, but it's still sad.  

[eddiebigeddie]

On 7/21/2025 at 11:40 AM, golfortennis said:

 

You really shouldn't give us popcorn and then say no butter!  😀

 

This reminds of a thread in a tennis forum.  Apparently the cheating is just as bad in junior tennis, with the added angle of, especially on the girls' side, a bigger player intimidating a smaller player into going along.  The point was made, no one in their right mind would ever scheduled a basketball game, football, whatever without officials, yet in tennis we expect these kids to make their own calls and be honest about it.  Especially if they have played other sports where there is an attitude "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'" , or "well if the ref didn't call it it wasn't a penalty."  When you think about it, it makes no sense.

 

I know that it is even tougher in golf to get some eyes on people, and once again, with kids, can we really expect them to be willing to call someone out?  They are taught to focus on their own game, and then add to that the social factors:  intimidation, could be a friend of theirs, not to mention the fact that society today seems to think that standing up for the rules in a competition makes you the bad guy rather than the guy who cheated.  I don't know the answer, but it's sad it has come to this, although cheating has been around forever.  When the Patrick Reed stuff in San Diego blew up, I think Chamblee was saying how an old pro told him of a guy who would always put his hands on the ball as soon as he could, because it then gives him the opportunity to somewhat dictates what happens next.  So it's nothing new.  But it's sad that "what can you do about it" is the common refrain.  Not an illogical one, given how there seems to be next to no backup for the person who brings it up, but it's still sad.  

LOL, I get what you're saying.  The quick rundown is, Coach would run around to all the "better players" and ask where they stood score wise, then immediately would get on his phone.  If you were close enough you'd then see his wife pick up her phone and look at it.  So 99.9% sure he was relaying to her what the son needed to do.  Happened way to many times for it to be a coincidence.  Funny but sad thing, last week was a local City Tourney and my son got to play because he's still young enough, played against alot of those kids on team now, including the "suspect".  The remaining team mates noticed it first hand and I had a few parents reach out to me to see how to handle it.  Funny that others are seeing, but Sad that now lots of people see it.

Edited July 23 by eddiebigeddie
spelling

[jda]

All of you with kids who have aspirations of playing beyond HS absolutely need to teach them how to watch/follow their person and speak up when they need to.  It is a good skill for later in life, but good college coaches want this too - IT IS PART OF THE GAME at the next level.  We spend time on it in HS including when to find a rules official (not a coach since some don't care), knowing the ball and marking of their player (kid plays a TM, but finds/hits a Cally out of the woods), always being around when a RA is speaking, etc.  Never too young to start this.

 

They also need to know when summer league is not serious, if they are in a JV tournament where picking up, double PAR or a foot wedge might be OK for some teams.  Just ask the rules and be relaxed if they are - your kid can still play 100% USGA if they want.

[Orange Hog]

So far our experience with cheaters has been pretty minimal but it has existed in every single tournament we've played in to one degree or another.  For the most part it's been with other groups so we haven't had to call it out.  But a couple of buddies who are also golf dads have gotten into it with other dads/caddies over blatant rule violations (ex: foot wedge, illegal drops, grounding in bunkers, etc).

 

In a recent tournament I had another dad come up to me and warn me to count every shot for a girl playing in my daughter's group.  I do this anyway - just a habit from playing in amateur tournaments myself - and have taught both of my kids to build this habit when they play in tournaments.  Well sure enough that other girl tried multiple times to write down an incorrect score.  On the 4th or 5th time I finally approached her dad/caddy and said "look I don't want to make this a big deal but if she's not going to write down the appropriate scores then she's going to end up getting herself DQ'd in bigger tournaments".  He was visibly frustrated because he knew damn well what she was doing and was playing dumb but that was the last time she tried it in that tournament.  Couple of weeks later I see that she finished in 2nd place in a bigger 2-day tournament.  As I'm talking to the dad who's daughter eneded up winning he said "we didn't play with her on the first day but we did in the final round and she tried 5 or 6 times to shave strokes and we called her on it".  Somehow on the same course in the same conditions she ends up shooting WAY worse on day two than she did on the first day.  Weird how that works out.

 

My daugther also played a PGA sectional 9-hole event recently.  These are fun events my kids use for practice so we never really take them super serious.  My daughter gets paired up with a nice girl who she has played with lots of times.  I only got to follow them for 3 holes but my wife tells me after the round that it was rake-and-place in all the bunkers because of some renovation work at the course and this girl kept building a little mound to place the ball on when in the bunkers.  Basically teeing it up.  End of the day it actually didn't favor her one bit during the round but I told my daughter that she's going to have to be vigilant in tournaments as she gets older and call kids on stuff like that, even if they are "friends".

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

@caligolfer2103 I really admire how you handled the situation. I'll be honest if that was me and I saw that happen. I would have repeatedly snapped my finger and whistled at the kid.  And called him out on it. 

[Hawkeye77]

You didn't want to risk a confrontation with the kid's parent but you spoke directly to the kid?

 

I think you handled the situation poorly.  

 

First, you have no business speaking to a kid in that fashion in that setting, just wrong for all sorts of reasons and I'm guessing the rules for the event probably prohibit you from speaking to him and him to you.  Second, if you aren't going to report it to an on course official, and I assume that's that person's function since you brought up the option, then in the context of the event it's over and forget about it.  

 

There is a junior golf sub forum where this stuff gets hashed over quite a bit.

 

Edit:  looking at the rules spectators are forbidden from speaking to the players and are not to get involved in scoring matters so the score is 2-1 in the kid's favor in terms of the rules that were violated (and by no means am I excusing or condoning his behavior), but it appears to be for the players to deal with and the rules provide they are to be reported immediately (so conversely if spectators are supposed to report, you should have - if your son didn't see it, then nothing to report and that's life). 

 

 

Edited July 23 by Hawkeye77

[caligolfer2103]

10 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

You didn't want to risk a confrontation with the kid's parent but you spoke directly to the kid?

 

I think you handled the situation poorly.  

 

First, you have no business speaking to a kid in that fashion in that setting, just wrong for all sorts of reasons and I'm guessing the rules for the event probably prohibit you from speaking to him and him to you.  Second, if you aren't going to report it to an on course official, and I assume that's that person's function since you brought up the option, then in the context of the event it's over and forget about it.  

 

There is a junior golf sub forum where this stuff gets hashed over quite a bit.

 

Edit:  looking at the rules spectators are forbidden from speaking to the players and are not to get involved in scoring matters so the score is 2-1 in the kid's favor in terms of the rules that were violated (and by no means am I excusing or condoning his behavior), but it appears to be for the players to deal with and the rules provide they are to be reported immediately (so conversely if spectators are supposed to report, you should have - if your son didn't see it, then nothing to report and that's life). 

 

 

I appreciate this. Seriously. I walked away feeling unsettled by what had transpired. Technically, as you said, my only recourse was to call a rules official over and raise the issue immediately. Had I really wanted to, I would have had video evidence as the "incident" lasted well over a minute given how the player was trying to move the ball. But, I couldn't bring myself to do it because I know these kids are put under so much pressure by their parents and end of day, it's still supposed to be fun. Looking back, I guess the only technically correct courses of action were at the extremes... rat him out or do nothing. In that moment, I tried to find a happy medium of not potentially getting him suspended but still discouraging cheating, but in retrospect, I can see your point that it wasn't the right call. Having said that, I'm not sure what I'd do next time this happens because my head would say he should be reported bc it's not fair to every other player out there, but my heart would still feel terrible doing it.

[Hawkeye77]

6 hours ago, caligolfer2103 said:

I appreciate this. Seriously. I walked away feeling unsettled by what had transpired. Technically, as you said, my only recourse was to call a rules official over and raise the issue immediately. Had I really wanted to, I would have had video evidence as the "incident" lasted well over a minute given how the player was trying to move the ball. But, I couldn't bring myself to do it because I know these kids are put under so much pressure by their parents and end of day, it's still supposed to be fun. Looking back, I guess the only technically correct courses of action were at the extremes... rat him out or do nothing. In that moment, I tried to find a happy medium of not potentially getting him suspended but still discouraging cheating, but in retrospect, I can see your point that it wasn't the right call. Having said that, I'm not sure what I'd do next time this happens because my head would say he should be reported bc it's not fair to every other player out there, but my heart would still feel terrible doing it.

 

What you do is follow the rules and don't talk to the kids, not easy.  Your son, if he wants to be, needs to be aware within reason of what the other players are doing and report an issue if it arises.  Not too many good options for parents and calling penalties isn't necessarily an easy thing to do for the kids or frankly, adults in competitive golf situations. So if it's not something he's wired to do, I'd let it go and no worries.

 

I get it, believe me.  I had a daughter who played golf in HS, she wasn't shy on rare occasions when someone needed a little help with counting strokes but that was the extent of it.  My other daughter played tennis - there was one girl from one school who she would end up matching up with a couple times a season.  That girl cheated line calls and the rules were the kids made their own line calls.  You saw one incident - let me tell you it's frustrating to watch a kid make anywhere from half a dozen to several more key "out" calls every time she plays and the only way she could win, the couple of times she did, was cheating. And no rules official.  And my dad was at most of those matches and you think it's hard not to say anything, try and keep "Grandpa" quiet, haha. Senior year when they would have met in a sub-state match that girl wasn't there - found out the coach had left her home because of the issues (he was aware).  So sometimes there is a bit of justice.  

 

One humorous exception and the Grandpa factor - oldest is playing in a golf meet and the 1s always played together and she was in a threesome and one of the other girls, albeit the best player on her team, just wasn't very good.  She made a hash of one hole in particular but overall was on a double bogey pace, my daughter was pretty much even.  After the round my dad went up to my daughter and asked about the really bad hole.  He always kept scores as we followed and he'd heard the girl report "x" after the hole when she really had "x plus a few", lol.  My daughter just laughed, "Grandpa, she wasn't going to beat me, I wasn't going to watch all her shots in the trees."  

 

Thanks for bringing back some memories as I watch the ladies in Scotland this morning.

Edited July 24 by Hawkeye77

[iacas]

If the rule was that adults/spectators don't talk to the kids (and I know I didn't like when anyone not officially involved in the event talked to my daughter except to say something like "nice shot" or "good putt" or "your ball's right here"), then it's a situation where two wrongs don't make a right.*

 

You talk to YOUR child after the event and make him aware of what others will do. Then you let him decide how much he cares about it. My daughter would watch some people like a hawk, and others who couldn't break 90 she wouldn't care unless it was obvious. She also didn't let focusing on the scores of others affect her much.

 

Kids cheat, sometimes unknowingly. But kids have to learn how to deal with someone who cheats, too.

 

* I mean, kinda. Trust me, I get the urge to say something. And by saying something it seems like you stopped future bad acts, at least that day. So it wasn't quite a "don't make a right" but it's just a saying. 🙂 

 

Edited July 24 by iacas
Added *

[Not_a_crazy_golf_dad]

Cheating happens in everything.  Eventually they will get caught.  I do wish that the USGA would take a tougher stance on smart watches especially in competitive events. I’ve seen firsthand parents texting their kids in non caddy events.  Not to mention if you use any of the advanced shot tracking systems or apps that are available that tell you what club you should hit, elevation changes, wind direction etc.  You have a computer on your wrist.

[caligolfer2103]

Amazing. Hadn't even thought about smart watches...

I walked with my son today. No cheating 🙂 But I resolved to learn from the prior week. Just watch and enjoy the game, make the occasional face at my son for a silly shot, and otherwise just soak in the good shots because it will be gone far too soon!

[mshills]

On 7/23/2025 at 1:31 PM, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

@caligolfer2103 I really admire how you handled the situation. I'll be honest if that was me and I saw that happen. I would have repeatedly snapped my finger and whistled at the kid.  And called him out on it. 

I am on the other side of this one. Parent your son, not someone else’s. 

My younger son is a pretty high level athlete in a very different sport. A parent does not talk to or engage with an opponent. Ever. No matter the stakes of the match. Parents get tossed immediately if they do that, no questions asked. 

 

The judgment call is whether to tell your son what you saw and advise him to watch closely. I would not do that during the round. On the drive home I’d ask him if he saw anything, then tell him what I saw, and let him decide how much focus to put on a fellow competitor when he is playing in the future. 
 

A youngster only has so much focus to give, and I’d rather him expend that on his own game. 

Edited July 29 by mshills

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

53 minutes ago, mshills said:

I am on the other side of this one. Parent your son, not someone else’s. 

My younger son is a pretty high level athlete in a very different sport. A parent does not talk to or engage with an opponent. Ever. No matter the stakes of the match. Parents get tossed immediately if they do that, no questions asked. 

 

The judgment call is whether to tell your son what you saw and advise him to watch closely. I would not do that during the round. On the drive home I’d ask him if he saw anything, then tell him what I saw, and let him decide how much focus to put on a fellow competitor when he is playing in the future. 
 

A youngster only has so much focus to give, and I’d rather him expend that on his own game. 

And that's what makes you guys great in this type of situation. I commend all people that can look at the way you and others like the OP. Reading things like this only proves that I'm to confrontational.

[naval2006]

I hate cheats. Junior, regular or senior. There are more and more everyday. I’ve seen my fair share of cheating in junior golf. I understand the OP. It’s very hard to see someone cheating in front of you in a tournament and just keep mum. Even if you are not supposed so address the kids in any way.