Creating space is bunk!

[iacas]

31 minutes ago, KD1 said:

It all seems consistent.. I'm not sure what all the confusion is about.

 

It is. I'm still waiting for a link to the video (I suspect I'll be waiting a long time) where they said something dramatically different.

 

14 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Once the club head moves away and to the inside even a tenth of a degree, technically for a right handed player, it has to have some degree of right path to get back to the ball. 

 

That's not what anyone is talking about when they say "swing to right field." C'mon.

 

7 minutes ago, airjammer said:

No because you are thinking about at impact I’m referring to backswing.  The only way someone wouldn’t be swing right for even a brief period of time is if there club was outside the ball line. 

 

Why are you talking about the backswing?

 

1 minute ago, airjammer said:

Exactly it is to the right until you swing in a way that makes the clubhead gets outside the ball line in which the path is left. 

 

It was a typo. He mean to say they swing to the left (as a righty).

 

Up to 58. Congrats, AJ. 🙄

[Pnwpingi210]

Just now, airjammer said:

Exactly it is to the right until you swing in a way that makes the clubhead gets outside the ball line in which the path is left. 

Sorry I edited the post it was meant to say to the “left”.  Your either trolling or denying generally accepted evidence as truth.  Either way I’m not going to respond to any more of the nonsense since it isn’t up for debate.

[KD1]

Club path vs swing path... where's a trash can lid when you need one?

[MonteScheinblum]

4 hours ago, rsballer10 said:

boy does this video bring back memories! I remember watching this in college...I'm 34 now 🙂. Been doing the "dump" or "magic move" for years now, so thank you. 

 

What would you change?

 

I demonstrated the bump happening too late.

[rsballer10]

21 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I demonstrated the bump happening too late.

that's what I figured

[airjammer]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

It is. I'm still waiting for a link to the video (I suspect I'll be waiting a long time) where they said something dramatically different.

 

 

That's not what anyone is talking about when they say "swing to right field." C'mon.

 

 

Why are you talking about the backswing?

 

 

It was a typo. He mean to say they swing to the left (as a righty).

 

Up to 58. Congrats, AJ. 🙄

Who is they? As far as I know I’m part of “they” and that’s how I define it…on an arc. Over 20 years ago when I was told to do that..I took it as hit the inside of the ball, which served me and a lot of other golfers quite well until I/we overdid it. 
 

I was the first person in this thread to say that AMG basically said to swing right. That’s because if you do exactly what they told you to do and a slicers fuel , it would feel like you are swing to right field to some degree. 

[biker74]

I’m trying to follow along.But I feel more confused now than when this started.

[jaffabell]

Why does everyone have to be right on this forum? The constant bickering and nitpicking is exhausting to read. Im all for discussion but its getting out of hand. Reign it in lads, you know who you are. Fed up of it!

[sundaypins]

This section from AMG, where the club is basically suspended in air and the player has to go attach to the handle, is the type of instruction that needs to be brought forth more often as it can become a real eye opener for students.   It's an old school process too, I've seen instructors hold the club at the top in back of a student and have them, from address, go get on the handle in the quickest, most efficient way, and see what instinctive move they make. 

 

 

 

Edited July 29 by sundaypins

[Pnwpingi210]

29 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Who is they? As far as I know I’m part of “they” and that’s how I define it…on an arc. Over 20 years ago when I was told to do that..I took it as hit the inside of the ball, which served me and a lot of other golfers quite well until I/we overdid it. 
 

I was the first person in this thread to say that AMG basically said to swing right. That’s because if you do exactly what they told you to do and a slicers fuel , it would feel like you are swing to right field to some degree. 

You’re conflating what the slicers are doing with shoulders (right shoulder in particular) and their swing path.

[dpc]

39 minutes ago, biker74 said:

I’m trying to follow along.But I feel more confused now than when this started.

I think the real confusion starts from Shawn in the video demonstrating a correct P8 position and sort of off script said something to the affect of keeping the arms the same relationship to the shoulders - if you move the shoulders back to parallel to the target [line] your arms are pointing to right field.  It seems that phrase has emboldened a swing to right field movement.

Edited July 29 by dpc
Added [line] to the text

[airjammer]

1 minute ago, dpc said:

I think the real confusion starts from Shawn in the video demonstrating a correct P8 position and sort of off script said something to the affect of keeping the arms the same relationship to the shoulders - if you move the shoulders back to parallel to the target your arms are pointing to right field.  It seems that phrase has emboldened a swing to right field movement.

Exactly and if you got their free drill..the drill was actually to swing to the right with right hand as you close the face. 

 

19 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

You’re conflating what the slicers are doing with shoulders (right shoulder in particular) and their swing path.

I’m not conflating anything because you can do almost anything with your trail shoulder and if you get your arms as deep and low as you can and uncock your wrists it almost impossible to come over the top. That’s why some prominent teachers believe that you are closer to being a good golfer being an over the topper than a right shoulder dropping under planer. 
 

Think of Alex Noran’s rehearsal…he’s literally maxing out every over the top move but his club is still not over the top and would be swinging to right  into the ball. 

[Pnwpingi210]

6 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Exactly and if you got their free drill..the drill was actually to swing to the right with right hand as you close the face. 

 

I’m not conflating anything because you can do almost anything with your trail shoulder and if you get your arms as deep and low as you can and uncock your wrists it almost impossible to come over the top. That’s why some prominent teachers believe that you are closer to being a good golfer being an over the topper than a right shoulder dropping under planer. 
 

Think of Alex Noran’s rehearsal…he’s literally maxing out every over the top move but his club is still not over the top and would be swinging to right  into the ball. 

No

[MonteScheinblum]

Discussion about the best way to add 2+2 and arrive at 4 is a debate.

 

When someone says 2+2=5 and others says that’s ridiculous, it’s 4.  That’s not a debate or bickering.  That’s one person letting the people who don’t know how to add what’s objectively correct.

[airjammer]

56 minutes ago, biker74 said:

I’m trying to follow along.But I feel more confused now than when this started.

Sorry the thread got into the weeds, there is nothing to be confused about really

 

AMG basically is clearing up any confusion about what the arms doing in the swing as if you are trying to pull the handle forward across your sternum mild line. 
 

Basically you need find a way be able to keep your hands on the right and rotate enough to actually keep them there until around impact which is going to be hard for inflexible golfers. 
 

[iacas]

The only way to hit the inside of the ball is with an open face. Path is irrelevant. Just geometry.

 

In the AMG video, they demonstrate that the arms feel like they go to the right, and they go to the right relative to a static body/chest/torso, but the pivot carries it around so the path is pretty neutral. They're not teaching a "swing to right field" swing. They're teaching a good swing that's pretty neutral.

 

18 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Discussion about the best way to add 2+2 and arrive at 4 is a debate.

 

When someone says 2+2=5 and others says that’s ridiculous, it’s 4.  That’s not a debate or bickering.  That’s one person letting the people who don’t know how to add what’s objectively correct.

 

Yeah. Another way of saying it from my perspective: I'm not trying to "be" right, I'm trying to get it right. And when someone says 2+2=5, I'm gonna point out that it's 4 and why.

 

It's not impolite. It's not hostile (not on this end at least). It's just a discussion. Everyone gets to have their own opinions, but not their own facts. 

[virtuoso]

4 hours ago, biker74 said:

I’m trying to follow along.But I feel more confused now than when this started.

Yeah, after experts speak, the amateur commentary following that presentation is more likely to confuse the issue than add clarity.

 

The AMG guys have taken complicated measurements and made it about as simple as it can be translated. There’s only one direction ignorant people can take it from there.

[NosajNeelik]

49 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Yeah, after experts speak, the amateur commentary following that presentation is more likely to confuse the issue than add clarity.

 

The AMG guys have taken complicated measurements and made it about as simple as it can be translated. There’s only one direction ignorant people can take it from there.

Thats so bunk it’s like a funk bunk 

[TexasTurf]

8 hours ago, sundaypins said:

This section from AMG, where the club is basically suspended in air and the player has to go attach to the handle, is the type of instruction that needs to be brought forth more often as it can become a real eye opener for students.   It's an old school process too, I've seen instructors hold the club at the top in back of a student and have them, from address, go get on the handle in the quickest, most efficient way, and see what instinctive move they make. 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing, that is extremely helpful for me and completely changes the way I view the golf and baseball swing. I do the exact opposite (rolling the hands over past the midline and pulling in to move the club forward), love this. Thanks again.

[Hilts1969]

14 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Hope this helps you….

 

 

 

It won't, he/she wanted to dump on the AMG video because they didn't understand it or thought they had a gotcha moment, unfortunately people who know what they are talking about explained it and that should have been the end of it but instead deeper and deeper the hole was dug, so deep the pedantry ladder is the only escape. 

[sundaypins]

8 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Thanks for sharing, that is extremely helpful for me and completely changes the way I view the golf and baseball swing. I do the exact opposite (rolling the hands over past the midline and pulling in to move the club forward), love this. Thanks again.

 

You're welcome.  I have a bag filled with goodies.😎

[TheDeanAbides]

18 hours ago, jaffabell said:

Why does everyone have to be right on this forum? The constant bickering and nitpicking is exhausting to read. Im all for discussion but its getting out of hand. Reign it in lads, you know who you are. Fed up of it!

[jaffabell]

28 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Its pathetic in all honesty, grown men arguing in every thread about who is more right than the other. A few have tried to dress it up or defend what is happening but it's honestly embarrassing to watch. There is discussion and then there is playground tittle tattle, and thats what it often turns in to. While some may not mean to come across as cocky or hostile, more often than not it does come across that way. 

 

It hasn't gone unnoticed to many casual observers of this particular forum and I  wanted to make feelings and observations known. 

 

All I ask, and feel free not to take heed, is that you all think before you type and hit post. How might the message come across to others? Would I speak in that way if I was having a conversation in person? Could I word it in a less confrontational way?

 

Let's get this forum back to how it used to be, pleasant discussion and acceptance of other points of view. If you don't agree with another point of view, try not to be a dick about it when responding. Cheers 🫡

[TheDeanAbides]

13 minutes ago, jaffabell said:

Its pathetic in all honesty, grown men arguing in every thread about who is more right than the other. A few have tried to dress it up or defend what is happening but it's honestly embarrassing to watch. There is discussion and then there is playground tittle tattle, and thats what it often turns in to. While some may not mean to come across as cocky or hostile, more often than not it does come across that way. 

 

It hasn't gone unnoticed to many casual observers of this particular forum and I  wanted to make feelings and observations known. 

 

All I ask, and feel free not to take heed, is that you all think before you type and hit post. How might the message come across to others? Would I speak in that way if I was having a conversation in person? Could I word it in a less confrontational way?

 

Let's get this forum back to how it used to be, pleasant discussion and acceptance of other points of view. If you don't agree with another point of view, try not to be a dick about it when responding. Cheers 🫡

Are you calling me personally a pathetic dick? I'm not sure how that's helpful in any other way than you being the forum police. Maybe you should consider thinking before you type.

[Pnwpingi210]

29 minutes ago, jaffabell said:

Its pathetic in all honesty, grown men arguing in every thread about who is more right than the other. A few have tried to dress it up or defend what is happening but it's honestly embarrassing to watch. There is discussion and then there is playground tittle tattle, and thats what it often turns in to. While some may not mean to come across as cocky or hostile, more often than not it does come across that way. 

 

It hasn't gone unnoticed to many casual observers of this particular forum and I  wanted to make feelings and observations known. 

 

All I ask, and feel free not to take heed, is that you all think before you type and hit post. How might the message come across to others? Would I speak in that way if I was having a conversation in person? Could I word it in a less confrontational way?

 

Let's get this forum back to how it used to be, pleasant discussion and acceptance of other points of view. If you don't agree with another point of view, try not to be a dick about it when responding. Cheers 🫡

I understand your post and there is some validity to all of that when discussing opinions (subjective beliefs).

 I think where the bickering comes into play is when people present opinions that conflict or oppose validated facts.   
 

it’s instruction forum and it loses its value if people represent opinions as facts that conflict with what we know to be true.  

Edited July 30 by Pnwpingi210

[Golfbeat]

I also like Tyler Ferrell's explanation from some time back.

 

 

 

[jonsnow]

10 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Are you calling me personally a pathetic dick? I'm not sure how that's helpful in any other way than you being the forum police. Maybe you should consider thinking before you type.

At least he didn't tell you to piss off...

[TheDeanAbides]

22 minutes ago, jonsnow said:

At least he didn't tell you to piss off...

There is that!

[jaffabell]

31 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Are you calling me personally a pathetic dick? I'm not sure how that's helpful in any other way than you being the forum police. Maybe you should consider thinking before you type.

It wasn't a direct reply to you, it was a general comment to all those who have acted like a dick in this forum, or came across as pathetic. You replied with the police car GIF, which prompted me to expand on my earlier point. It isn't surprising however that you thought I was aiming it at you, although ill give you the benefit of a doubt and assume the police gif was an attempt and lightening the mood.

 

Im not going to get dragged in to an argument or further tittle tattle on this, I have made my point and reflected how others feel.

 

Happy to move on, just be respectful to eachother please gents and let's keep this forum a good place to learn and share ideas 

[Valtiel]

21 hours ago, jaffabell said:

Why does everyone have to be right on this forum? 

This happens in any field where knowledge/measurements/technology advances in ways that call into question certain "older" ways of thinking, and the bickering the occurs between parties on either side of that fence. Yes it can get tedious, but so is being in a qualified professional position on the "current" side of the fence having to yell back over said fence at people who still want to talk about things in "old" ways that are increasingly proven to be less and less correct as time goes on. 

Golf instruction and swing theory is a weird field where people with no real experience or qualifications regularly talk over those with it and act like their ideas and concepts are equal or even *better* sometimes. There aren't many other complex fields that have that dynamic, and it's partially because the golf swing has tons of grey AND partially because there are lots of terrible instructors with bad ideas themselves. It's a pretty poorly regulated field, and that empowers the laymen to jump into the ring and speak authoritatively on things they likely shouldn't be, and to anyone else that doesn't know any better that often isn't apparent. 

So IMO it's not an "everyone stop bickering!" thing, it's a "instructors try to be more patient and amateurs try to listen more and ask questions", but if the latter isn't respected then you can't expect infinite patience from the former. 

Edited July 30 by Valtiel