Iron Shaft conundrum - recommendations required

[taylorsc]

I've had a number of fittings specifically focussed on iron shafts.

 

My personal preference is majority stiffness towards the tip, with a heavier weight. I had x100's that i could not load correctly. On fitters recommendation, moved to a $taper 130x, which contrary to the above I feel is too heavy. I've got Modus 120x in my 48 & 54 wedges which work well. Testing a zxi7 with modus 105x in it was the opposite with them being too light, but preferable over the 130 $taper. As with any fitting i go into, I'm open to anything anyone suggests and have access to trying most shafts/head setups.

 

I should add that the current clubs with the 130x $taper are 620mb but are a lighter swing weight at D1. Willing to try any head, any shaft, any weight with preferences above. Thanks in advance!

[Drivingrangehero]

I’d start with finding the right weight range, then look for a profile in that weight range that works best, fine tune with flex. 
 

if 130g is too heavy and Modus 105x (112g shaft btw)  is too light, seek out some shafts 120g range. Tons to choose from there. 
 

 

 

 

[Stuart_G]

Agree - weight needs to come first, stiffness profile/flex second.

 

Second, when you are finding out the best shaft weight, make sure the grip weight and swing weight stay constant and don't vary.   You need to make sure the difference you are feeling really is coming from the shaft weight difference.  That could be one possible reason why the x100's were not too heavy but the $-tapers felt like they were too heavy.

 

41 minutes ago, taylorsc said:

 I had x100's that i could not load correctly.

 

How are you determining what the "correct" amount of loading is?

 

I only mention this because there is a lot of misconceptions about how much loading there "should" be in a shaft.  The reality is that there is no ideal or optimal amount of loading.  it's purely a subjective evaluation.   Some people like to feel a certain amount of loading - for others the amount of loading is not really that important.   If it feels to you like it loads too much or not enough, or if the loading feel causes problems with the ball flight results (dispersion, accuracy, shot shape control) - those are the correct way to evaluate it if you're getting the right amount of loading.

Edited July 28 by Stuart_G

[taylorsc]

31 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Agree - weight needs to come first, stiffness profile/flex second.

 

Second, when you are finding out the best shaft weight, make sure the grip weight and swing weight stay constant and don't vary.   You need to make sure the difference you are feeling really is coming from the shaft weight difference.  That could be one possible reason why the x100's were not too heavy but the $-tapers felt like they were too heavy.

 

 

How are you determining what the "correct" amount of loading is?

 

I only mention this because there is a lot of misconceptions about how much loading there "should" be in a shaft.  The reality is that there is no ideal or optimal amount of loading.  it's purely a subjective evaluation.   Some people like to feel a certain amount of loading - for others the amount of loading is not really that important.   If it feels to you like it loads too much or not enough, or if the loading feel causes problems with the ball flight results (dispersion, accuracy, shot shape control) - those are the correct way to evaluate it if you're getting the right amount of loading.

In regards to the x100, they were ballooning, descent angle wasnt great and certainly weren't loading enough (release often felt 'behind' or 'late'. Spin was rather low which I forgot to add in OP which led to the $tapers. Also didnt state that the irons are +0.5inch. Since getting the $tapers in the same irons any compression has disappeared from my game.

[Nessism]

18 minutes ago, taylorsc said:

In regards to the x100, they were ballooning, descent angle wasnt great and certainly weren't loading enough (release often felt 'behind' or 'late'. Spin was rather low which I forgot to add in OP which led to the $tapers. Also didnt state that the irons are +0.5inch. Since getting the $tapers in the same irons any compression has disappeared from my game.

 

Sounds like the X100 was bringing out swing problems, because ballooning means too much spin.  Try DG120 in X100 and see if that fixes that problem.  It's not the shaft, it's how you swing them.

[taylorsc]

2 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

Sounds like the X100 was bringing out swing problems, because ballooning means too much spin.  Try DG120 in X100 and see if that fixes that problem.  It's not the shaft, it's how you swing them.

 

Oh I completely understand its me swinging the club, but I can feel the issues and can swing a shaft that doesn't feel right to me five times and dismiss it without looking at flight/numbers. I need the tip stiff, that works for my swing.

[Stuart_G]

55 minutes ago, taylorsc said:

Since getting the $tapers in the same irons any compression has disappeared from my game.

 

Do you know and compare the swing weight with both sets?   That can be unpredictable - especially when dealing with over-length builds.

 

It's certainly possible that the loading feel is influencing your release timing but it's much more common for shaft weight and swing weight to do that. 

 

Don't get me wrong.  AFAIK, nothing wrong with changing just because the shaft doesn't feel right to you.  But there are some inconsistencies with some of the things you're saying.    Ballooning is a high spin problem - yet you said spin was low with the x100s.  You say you need a tip stiff shaft, yet the x100's have a stiffer tip than the $-tapers.    That makes me wonder if there are other things going on and we're not getting the big picture.

 

FYI - it sounds like the data might have been collected over multiple sessions.  Just realize that you can't compare numbers across different LM's hit off of different surfaces.   And it's important when testing shafts to make sure all the other specs (grip size and weight, head weight or swing weight, and playing lengths) are identical in the test clubs.

 

Edited July 28 by Stuart_G

[taylorsc]

18 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Do you know and compare the swing weight with both sets?   That can be unpredictable - especially when dealing with over-length builds.

 

It's certainly possible that the loading feel is influencing your release timing but it's much more common for shaft weight and swing weight to do that. 

 

Don't get me wrong.  AFAIK, nothing wrong with changing just because the shaft doesn't feel right to you.  But there are some inconsistencies with some of the things you're saying.    Ballooning is a high spin problem - yet you said spin was low with the x100s.  You say you need a tip stiff shaft, yet the x100's have a stiffer tip than the $-tapers.    That makes me wonder if there are other things going on and we're not getting the big picture.

 

FYI - it sounds like the data might have been collected over multiple sessions.  Just realize that you can't compare numbers across different LM's hit off of different surfaces.   And it's important when testing shafts to make sure all the other specs (grip size and weight, head weight or swing weight, and playing lengths) are identical in the test clubs.

 

 

Both the exact same heads, swing weight was unknown with the original x100's. They had midsize GP tour cords at 0.5inch+, the $tapers have midsize GP MCC at 0.5in+, they are coming in between d0-d1 according to club builder. From past experience, i have preferred a heavier SW (d4+) but he couldn't get them up to that working with what he had. I have lead tape but haven't tried adding the required to get them to 4. 

 

Ballooning may have been the wrong term, so ignore that. A stiffer tip is the feel I prefer and works for me, but by no means do I need the stiffest tip on the market. 

 

We ended up in the shaft testing the $taper in a Mizuno Pro S3 at standard length which gave the best numbers. (i'm 6'3 and usual specs are +0.5in and 2up)

[jvincent]

@taylorsc have you tried the Modus 125 or 115? Same bend profile in both of those just different weight.

[Jtgavigan]

Coming from both Modus and X100 and now in $Taper, I had to add a decent amount of headweight to get the same feel. I have always preferred heavier swing weights also. I am currently at D6. 

[Drivingrangehero]

1 hour ago, taylorsc said:

Ballooning may have been the wrong term, so ignore that.

I tend to launch overly heavy/stiff shaft higher than softer tip shafts because they affect my release by me attempting to get the loading feedback I desire, so I tend to swing out of my shoes causing me to release early….. they don’t balloon, but my launch goes way up (3°) with a higher peak height, but lower spin 

You mentioned you like the Modus 120x in your wedges, they are much softer than the DG X100, I think it’s been mentioned somewhere before that they are akin to a DG R300 hs/x1, but I’m sure another more knowledgeable person can give a more detailed account of that here. 
 

Every one is different and there is no such thing as my swing speed is ____ therefore is should be in a —- flex. 
 

I play Modus 105r and my swing speed with a 7i is around 92mph I would gather…… I’m not entirely sure since I have only been on a GC Quad without the dots for a few years, but recently hit some Mizuno  Mp-20 7 irons (34°) and Ping i230 7 irons (33°) and my ball speed hovered around 121-123mph

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, taylorsc said:

I've had a number of fittings specifically focussed on iron shafts.

 

My personal preference is majority stiffness towards the tip, with a heavier weight. I had x100's that i could not load correctly. On fitters recommendation, moved to a $taper 130x, which contrary to the above I feel is too heavy. I've got Modus 120x in my 48 & 54 wedges which work well. Testing a zxi7 with modus 105x in it was the opposite with them being too light, but preferable over the 130 $taper. As with any fitting i go into, I'm open to anything anyone suggests and have access to trying most shafts/head setups.

 

I should add that the current clubs with the 130x $taper are 620mb but are a lighter swing weight at D1. Willing to try any head, any shaft, any weight with preferences above. Thanks in advance!

Did you try the classic DG S300 130 grams?
or DG 120 series, where both X and S should be tried.

[phizzy30]

X100 has a stiff tip and mid and gets softer in the handle.  It might be the softness in the handle that doesn't agree with your swing.  I would recommend testing C-taper S+ or X(92+ mph with 7 iron recommended) or PX LS 6.0 or 6.5 since both have stiff tips and handles.  $-taper is softer in the tip and stiffer in the handle but it might just be that the 130X is too heavy so you could drop to the 120 or 125 to see if you do better.