Erica Larkin: Heretical or 'True' swing?

[Nickc]

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30 by Nickc
Added Erica Larkin to title - in case a search in the future for her

[TheDeanAbides]

I gave it until about halfway through. Every time someone says 'natural swing' or some derivative of it a golf fairy dies. 

[Nickc]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I gave it until about halfway through. Every time someone says 'natural swing' or some derivative of it a golf fairy dies. 

So I guess you think it is heresy!

And you weren't tempted to watch the other 4 videos in her series on Birdie Basics😂

Edited July 30 by Nickc
Added bit about other videos.

[Llortamaisey]

Why does she have to perpetuate stereotypes by making the spatula and pancake analogy?

[Hawkeye77]

Another "must post" YouTube vid? And from 2 months ago? And no opinion or analysis.

 

Please spare us part 2 if there was one, lol. 

[Nickc]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Please spare us part 2 if there was one, lol. 

There are 5 parts if you want to watch them.

Best to start at part 1.

I was hoping the experts here would comment on whether her teaching will lead to a 'true' swing as she calls it or her ideas are ' bunk' or heresy as far as the main consensus here often appears to be.

[Hawkeye77]

11 minutes ago, Nickc said:

There are 5 parts if you want to watch them.

Best to start at part 1.

I was hoping the experts here would comment on whether her teaching will lead to a 'true' swing as she calls it or her ideas are ' bunk' or heresy as far as the main consensus here often appears to be.

 

Why don't you comment on what value her thoughts have, if any? It attracted you for some reason.

 

I watched part of it, she basically says nothing until she is selling something, which is the point of the whole thing.

Edited July 30 by Hawkeye77

[TheDeanAbides]

51 minutes ago, Nickc said:

So I guess you think it is heresy!

And you weren't tempted to watch the other 4 videos in her series on Birdie Basics😂

Not heresy. Nonsense. Unsubstantiated nonsense. It's funny how these people talking about an effortless freeflowing swing without thought of mechanics tend to have good mechanics. I guess she got those naturally? 

[rsballer10]

17 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Not heresy. Nonsense. Unsubstantiated nonsense. It's funny how these people talking about an effortless freeflowing swing without thought of mechanics tend to have good mechanics. I guess she got those naturally? 

I have to agree. It's not that what she's teaching re: the pivot is irrelevant. It's that (a) when she doesn't understand how to explain the pivot she substitutes the word 'natural' and (b) it probably feels natural because she already understands how to structure the arms and hands.

 

The bucket drill is important because the shift/pressure starts before the club changes direction - force proceeds motion. 

[sundaypins]

A basic, ageless, concept video pulled from other sources, not heretical, good viewing material for many.    The section about not interfering, or interrupting, arm momentum couldn't be more on target.   That poor little ball sitting all alone on the ground just waiting for some chop to give it a mighty whack when they'd be better off taking a page from Sam Snead saying to the ball- "don't worry baby I won't hurt you."   

[bladehunter]

I’m about 6 min in.  Can’t argue with anything yet.  Sort of like the club explanations. I personally think instruction has not nearly enough club talk in it.  Especially around driver.  Ie- why do we try to fit ALL players into the same length and head size driver ?  We don’t do that with any other club.  Is there a point of diminishing returns on height /armlength vs club length ?  And how does that affect the lie angle needed ?   Yes. Fitting questions.  No fitter  has ever mentioned this to me.  I’ve never even heard the “ the shaft is straight in / behind the face “ thing she just said. The bucket drill rings true too. To me a lot like throwing a baseball. Nobody ever taught me how to do that either. We all just did it.    Who knows.  Probably goes off the rails soon 🤣

[TheDeanAbides]

19 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

A basic, ageless, concept video pulled from other sources, not heretical, good viewing material for many.    The section about not interfering, or interrupting, arm momentum couldn't be more on target.   That poor little ball sitting all alone on the ground just waiting for some chop to give it a mighty whack when they'd be better off taking a page from Sam Snead saying to the ball- "don't worry baby I won't hurt you."   

Again, showing your complete lack of understanding. Not interrupting arm momentum is only relevant as a feel if your arms are already moving correctly. Not one single pro is leaving the arms like noodles. Their arms are very active. 

 

Sam Snead absolutely snotted the living crap out of the ball with incredible force. You don't hit it 300 yards without doing that. 

[TheDeanAbides]

20 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I’m about 6 min in.  Can’t argue with anything yet.  Sort of like the club explanations. I personally think instruction has not nearly enough club talk in it.  Especially around driver.  Ie- why do we try to fit ALL players into the same length and head size driver ?  We don’t do that with any other club.  Is there a point of diminishing returns on height /armlength vs club length ?  And how does that affect the lie angle needed ?   Yes. Fitting questions.  No fitter  has ever mentioned this to me.  I’ve never even heard the “ the shaft is straight in / behind the face “ thing she just said. The bucket drill rings true too. To me a lot like throwing a baseball. Nobody ever taught me how to do that either. We all just did it.    Who knows.  Probably goes off the rails soon 🤣

Nobody taught you how to throw a baseball because you had athletic movement. If you didn't you'd look like some of the sorry attempts to throw you see everywhere and would have needed to be taught how to do it.  

 

This all comes back to that old issue of assuming that something one person has learnt and made unconscious is therefore 'natural', when it just feels natural to them. 

[golferdude54]

I doubt she really cares about what anyone is saying on here, maybe one of her students will point it out and she'll read it while having her morning coffee and chuckle. Then she'll move on and go to one of her 2 East Coast academies depending on the time of year. Because she seems pretty well off.

[GoGoErky]

59 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I’m about 6 min in.  Can’t argue with anything yet.  Sort of like the club explanations. I personally think instruction has not nearly enough club talk in it.  Especially around driver.  Ie- why do we try to fit ALL players into the same length and head size driver ?  We don’t do that with any other club.  Is there a point of diminishing returns on height /armlength vs club length ?  And how does that affect the lie angle needed ?   Yes. Fitting questions.  No fitter  has ever mentioned this to me.  I’ve never even heard the “ the shaft is straight in / behind the face “ thing she just said. The bucket drill rings true too. To me a lot like throwing a baseball. Nobody ever taught me how to do that either. We all just did it.    Who knows.  Probably goes off the rails soon 🤣

Sounds like you haven’t been to a good fitter if length of driver wasn’t discussed or lie angle and face adjustments and their affects when making changes to them. 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

39 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Nobody taught you how to throw a baseball because you had athletic movement. If you didn't you'd look like some of the sorry attempts to throw you see everywhere and would have needed to be taught how to do it.  

 

This all comes back to that old issue of assuming that something one person has learnt and made unconscious is therefore 'natural', when it just feels natural to them. 

Yeah I see a lot of bad throwing mechanics from kids and almost all the ones I played ball with and someone teach them proper mechanics. Theres a bunch of videos on YouTube about throwing mechanics too because its not a natural motion.

 

[bladehunter]

46 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Nobody taught you how to throw a baseball because you had athletic movement. If you didn't you'd look like some of the sorry attempts to throw you see everywhere and would have needed to be taught how to do it.  

 

This all comes back to that old issue of assuming that something one person has learnt and made unconscious is therefore 'natural', when it just feels natural to them. 

 😎.  Not wanting to argue. I understand outliers vs the masses.  And in no way am saying anyone can get nuggets from this. But. Some potentially can . ( I’m not vouching for this lady ). .I can’t ignore what I’ve experienced.  People who grew up pre internet ( me) rarely had instruction on doing anything.  I agree. We all knew a kid who just couldn’t throw a ball. But. We had a baseball team full of guys who could.  And I’m telling you, the coach was a bus driver with a red man habit. Nothing more.  You were placed into positions on the field  based on what you could already do. Not coached into positions . Polishing was all you got.  And It consisted of “ get off your a__ and  get to that ball “ 🤣. 
 

I think it ALL has a place. I like knowing the whys.  So I’m not at all against technical teaching.  But. I know that the intuitive/visual player exists. I am one.  
 

and I still say. Especially with driver. Instruction does not include enough talk of the actual club. Including acknowledgment that the swing isn’t the same as the other 12.  
 

 

Edited July 30 by bladehunter

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Sounds like you haven’t been to a good fitter if length of driver wasn’t discussed or lie angle and face adjustments and their affects when making changes to them. 

 

 

I would agree with that.  I’ve never found one. Now. Admittedly. I haven’t flown or driven out of state to find one.   But I also wouldn’t know where to start.  Maybe the titleist performance center ?  But you can’t go to any fitter I’ve seen and say “ test a current driver at 44.5 “. Or anything less than stock  length.  They won’t have a shaft , or ability to swing weight  it correctly.  

[bladehunter]

46 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Nobody taught you how to throw a baseball because you had athletic movement. If you didn't you'd look like some of the sorry attempts to throw you see everywhere and would have needed to be taught how to do it.  

 

This all comes back to that old issue of assuming that something one person has learnt and made unconscious is therefore 'natural', when it just feels natural to them. 

Adding to the above here so you don’t miss the edit.  A great example of what I mean by visual is that short video you sent me showing the wrist movements.  I understood immediately what you meant. But you could have described it in words 20 times and I wouldn’t have got it. She’s showing you similarly.  And that clicks with me. No talk of supination , probation , pronation , or the other technical terms.  My eyes glaze over when I hear them.  And that’s an indictment on me. Not any teacher that uses them.  But I can’t seem to make that click.  But I can watch a good swing and copy it. So ?  That’s all I’m saying. In a nutshell. Is that natural or just a different learning style. Probably the latter.  But it’s different either way. 

[rsballer10]

Just now, bladehunter said:

I would agree with that.  I’ve never found one. Now. Admittedly. I haven’t flown or driven out of state to find one.   But I also wouldn’t know where to start.  Maybe the titleist performance center ?  But you can’t go to any fitter I’ve seen and say “ test a current driver at 44.5 “. Or anything less than stock  length.  They won’t have a shaft , or ability to swing weight  it correctly.  

Venture over to the club techs sub at your own risk 🙃 but TBH a simulator, tape/marker, and lead tape can get you most of what you are looking for.

 

[sundaypins]

4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

 😎.  Not wanting to argue. I understand outliers vs the masses.  And in no way am saying anyone can get nuggets from this. But. Some potentially can . ( I’m not vouching for this lady ). .I can’t ignore what I’ve experienced.  People who grew up pre internet ( me) rarely had instruction on doing anything.  I agree. We all knew a kid who just couldn’t throw a ball. But. We had a baseball team full of guys who could.  And I’m telling you, the coach was a bus driver with a red man habit. Nothing more.  You were placed into positions on the field  based on what you could already do. Not coached into positions . Polishing was all you got.  And It consisted of “ get off your a__ and  get to that ball “ 🤣. 
 

I think it ALL has a place. I like knowing the whys.  So I’m not at all against technical teaching.  But. I know that the intuitive/visual player exists. I am one.  

 

These are nice comments.  Learning to throw a ball and playing as a kid was a summer time imperative for avoiding the alternative- staying close to home within the radius of hearing mom's voice calling to come home for light chore duty.    Ball or chores, easy choice.   Helped coach a travel ball team and a player didn't make the team unless they were athletes with pitching skills. 

[TheDeanAbides]

19 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

 😎.  Not wanting to argue. I understand outliers vs the masses.  And in no way am saying anyone can get nuggets from this. But. Some potentially can . ( I’m not vouching for this lady ). .I can’t ignore what I’ve experienced.  People who grew up pre internet ( me) rarely had instruction on doing anything.  I agree. We all knew a kid who just couldn’t throw a ball. But. We had a baseball team full of guys who could.  And I’m telling you, the coach was a bus driver with a red man habit. Nothing more.  You were placed into positions on the field  based on what you could already do. Not coached into positions . Polishing was all you got.  And It consisted of “ get off your a__ and  get to that ball “ 🤣. 
 

I think it ALL has a place. I like knowing the whys.  So I’m not at all against technical teaching.  But. I know that the intuitive/visual player exists. I am one.  
 

and I still say. Especially with driver. Instruction does not include enough talk of the actual club. Including acknowledgment that the swing isn’t the same as the other 12.  
 

 

Yes, there's a place for learning some holistic flow, but not at the expense of good mechanics. I'm pretty sure we agree on this.

[TheDeanAbides]

10 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Adding to the above here so you don’t miss the edit.  A great example of what I mean by visual is that short video you sent me showing the wrist movements.  I understood immediately what you meant. But you could have described it in words 20 times and I wouldn’t have got it. She’s showing you similarly.  And that clicks with me. No talk of supination , probation , pronation , or the other technical terms.  My eyes glaze over when I hear them.  And that’s an indictment on me. Not any teacher that uses them.  But I can’t seem to make that click.  But I can watch a good swing and copy it. So ?  That’s all I’m saying. In a nutshell. Is that natural or just a different learning style. Probably the latter.  But it’s different either way. 

I'm a visual learner too, so I completely get that. I like to know what the mechanics the visual is teaching me is though, so I can refer without getting to lost in ever changing feels. The mechanics keep me focused in the right direction and the feels integrate that. 

[johnrobison]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

To me a lot like throwing a baseball. Nobody ever taught me how to do that either. We all just did it.

I've played and seen a lot of baseball and 90% of the people I see throw a ball, do it at the equivalent of a 20 handicap golfer's swing. Perhaps, like me, you were somehow just a natural at baseball. Perhaps, like me, you played with a lot of guys who were also somehow just naturally good at it. Not that we all weren't taught and fine-tuned in the mechanics to be even better, but we had an innate talent/skill for the fundamentals. But, just like golfers, most people (in my experience, anyway) are very far from naturally good at throwing a ball and without learning proper mechanics simply swinging "effortlessly, naturally, free-flowing" or whatever, won't get them anywhere.

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, rsballer10 said:

Venture over to the club techs sub at your own risk 🙃 but TBH a simulator, tape/marker, and lead tape can get you most of what you are looking for.

 

Oh for sure. I’ve fit myself for all of the above with finding cog, lead tape and ability to build the club.  But that’s tough going without a trackman . Trial and error only. 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I'm a visual learner too, so I completely get that. I like to know what the mechanics the visual is teaching me is though, so I can refer without getting to lost in ever changing feels. The mechanics keep me focused in the right direction and the feels integrate that. 

Right. So we agree. I’m just not good at explaining myself. Or I over do it etc. I might look at it that way now. But I learned opposite. I learned by making the ball move. The whys didn’t come along till 10 years later. 

 

my issue with doing it in reverse is trust.  How many times have we all followed “ trust me bro “ just to see bad results for months “. I’m playing for score. Not positions on a video. I have a camera stand now. But hesitate to shoot any video until after next weekend. Have a 2 day event I’ll be in contention to win. And am ramping up nicely score wise.  And don’t want to go down any rabbit holes until after. 
 

I test out every single nugget I get here. Most are good.  But I haven’t see it in action before I trust that.  Rambling now I’ll stop. 

[bladehunter]

20 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

I've played and seen a lot of baseball and 90% of the people I see throw a ball, do it at the equivalent of a 20 handicap golfer's swing. Perhaps, like me, you were somehow just a natural at baseball. Perhaps, like me, you played with a lot of guys who were also somehow just naturally good at it. Not that we all weren't taught and fine-tuned in the mechanics to be even better, but we had an innate talent/skill for the fundamentals. But, just like golfers, most people (in my experience, anyway) are very far from naturally good at throwing a ball and without learning proper mechanics simply swinging "effortlessly, naturally, free-flowing" or whatever, won't get them anywhere.

Sure. Again. I’m not anti instruction. I’m anti one size fits all. It’s not about the info. It’s the delivery. The language.  The visual.  No. I stopped baseball at the middle school level. Began to hate the sport once travel ball became a thing. Quit and started track. And went on to run sub 49 second 400m in that.   I often wonder how fast I mig it have been at that with a coach. No doubt today’s kids are better at everything because of coaching.  As in the parity is amazingly wide.  
 

keep in mind. These topics always go sideways. I really do not know why?  All I said was that I had watched to the 6 minute mark.  And so far I found no lies. And that i liked her club explanation. The visual.  For some reason discussion of this isn’t possible immediately attacked 

 

I don’t know her from Adam’s house cat. 

Edited July 30 by bladehunter

[sundaypins]

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Again, showing your complete lack of understanding. Not interrupting arm momentum is only relevant as a feel if your arms are already moving correctly. Not one single pro is leaving the arms like noodles. Their arms are very active. 

 

Sam Snead absolutely snotted the living crap out of the ball with incredible force. You don't hit it 300 yards without doing that. 

 

Understanding some of this forum's swing material and discussion might be less edible, or understandable, for some can make it all the more enjoyable for others looking for their one time fast moment.   "arms like noodles"🙄🤣   Good luck to you. 

 

 https://www.facebook.com/secretgolf/videos/10154965191008968/

[TheDeanAbides]

4 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

Understanding some of this forum's swing material and discussion might be less edible, or understandable, for some can make it all the more enjoyable for others looking for their one time fast moment.   "arms like noodles"🙄🤣   Good luck to you. 

 

 https://www.facebook.com/secretgolf/videos/10154965191008968/

Most of the stuff Jackie Burke says is outdated and disproven. He's a dinosaur and irrelevant anywhere other than that anachronistic site.  

[RayPlan]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

Yeah I see a lot of bad throwing mechanics from kids and almost all the ones I played ball with and someone teach them proper mechanics. Theres a bunch of videos on YouTube about throwing mechanics too because its not a natural motion.

 

Can confirm, I never learned how to throw properly (baseball or football) as a kid, so even though I can physically throw both kinds of ball, it's not very far. When I would try to throw harder/farther, it would feel awkward or even painful, due to bad mechanics. 

 

I've probably learned more about throwing mechanics through the lens of golf instruction comparing the swing to a throwing motion.