Erica Larkin: Heretical or 'True' swing?

[otto6457]

I am quite certain my "natural/real swing" when I was six was pretty much trash.  Why on earth would I want my "natural/real swing" back?

[MK7Golf21]

3 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

Yeah I see a lot of bad throwing mechanics from kids and almost all the ones I played ball with and someone teach them proper mechanics. Theres a bunch of videos on YouTube about throwing mechanics too because its not a natural motion.

 

 

I've mentioned this on here before but I play football catch with my nephew as of late since he got into football, he's 13 now. He throws a spiral on every throw where as I can occasionally get a spiral to come out of my throw. I've picked his brain on how he does it trying to learn myself and he basically taught himself by throwing a football, didn't look at any instruction or get help from anyone.

 

I mean I'm sure he has seen people throw a football and mimics it but I watch nfl every Sunday during season since I was a kid and that doesn't help me throw it better. So I think there is some natural ability to it or maybe it's just luck to pick up on it easily, just like young golfers that end up on the pga tour.  

 

I'm sure he could get even better too with some help, as long as someone doesn't screw up what he is doing right now. 

[dpc]

6 hours ago, johnrobison said:

I've played and seen a lot of baseball and 90% of the people I see throw a ball, do it at the equivalent of a 20 handicap golfer's swing. Perhaps, like me, you were somehow just a natural at baseball. Perhaps, like me, you played with a lot of guys who were also somehow just naturally good at it. Not that we all weren't taught and fine-tuned in the mechanics to be even better, but we had an innate talent/skill for the fundamentals. But, just like golfers, most people (in my experience, anyway) are very far from naturally good at throwing a ball and without learning proper mechanics simply swinging "effortlessly, naturally, free-flowing" or whatever, won't get them anywhere.

I laughed when this thread ventured off into throwing a baseball, because I've been contemplating starting a thread with that theme, but didn't think it would go very far.  So since this thread seems to be meandering I'll add it here.

 

All the comments about throwing a ball - the mechanics of doing so apply to golf as well.  No one starts out doing it well, it's learned by trial and error, some peer input, then later some formal instruction.  But one thing that's not taught is the release - hear me out.  You can instruct, "hold the ball here, move your wrist/fingers like this." to improve someone's accuracy or speed, but you can't teach, "when you feel this much pressure at this point in the throw let go of the ball."  It just has to be felt and learned by trial and error.  No one consciously relaxes their fingers to let go of the ball.  They just do.  If it's been several years or decades since you've thrown a tennis ball or a whiffle ball and pick one up and try to throw it hard or far, there's a pretty good chance you won't be accurate because of the subtly in the fingers required to do so has diminished.  No one can tell you, "do this to hold it a little longer, or do this to let go sooner"...

 

I've now come to think of the "release" in the golf swing - the movement from P6 to P7 - in the same way.  It really can't be taught - the mechanics can be described, but the application of those mechanics has to be felt. Just like learning to throw you need to feel the right pressure in your fingers and thumb to release the ball accurately, then can learn to apply techniques to change the ball's movement.  So too, the right fluidity of the wrists and hands through the golf release has to be felt first, then instruction can be applied to change to the golf ball's movement.

 

Edited July 30 by dpc
typo and grammer

[GoGoErky]

14 minutes ago, dpc said:

I laughed when this thread ventured off into throwing a baseball, because I've been contemplating starting a thread with that theme, but didn't think it would go very far.  So since this thread seems to be meandering I'll add it here.

 

All the comments about throwing a ball - the mechanics of doing so apply to golf as well.  No one starts out doing it well, it's learned by trial and error, some peer input, then later some formal instruction.  But one thing that's not taught is the release - hear me out.  You can instruct, "hold the ball here, move your wrist/fingers like this." to improve someone's accuracy or speed, but you can't teach, "when you feel this much pressure at this point in the throw let go of the ball."  It just has to be felt and learned by trial and error.  No one consciously relaxes their fingers to let go of the ball.  They just do.  If it's been several years or decades since you've thrown a tennis ball or a whiffle ball and pick one up and try to throw it hard or far, there's a pretty good chance you won't be accurate because of the subtly in the fingers required to do so has diminished.  No one can tell you, "do this to hold it a little longer, or do this to let go sooner"...

 

I've now come to think of the "release" in the golf swing - the movement from P6 to P7 - in the same way.  It really can't be taught - the mechanics can be described, but the application of those mechanics has to be felt. Just like learning to throw you need to feel the right pressure in your fingers and thumb to release the ball accurately, then can learn to apply techniques to change the ball's movement.  So to the right fluidity of the wrists and hands through the golf release has to be felt first, then instruction can be applied to change to the golf ball's movement.

 

I think the release can be taught. NTC gets into this.

 

 

Monte says that if cast B doesn’t happen as a result of doing cast A then one would need to also do cast B.

 

 

[PedronNiall]

I like that her method tries to simplify the keys of a good swinging motion, same as instructors like Shawn Clement and Ron Sisson. I have to assume there are at least some videos before these, though. Otherwise there are some big keys missing. One of the biggest things holding most golfers back is not having a sound grip and it's glossed over in the video. If it's not covered elsewhere then anyone watching is likely going to have difficulty trying to learn a rhythmic swing motion when they either have no control of the club or have to death grip it to keep it in line. You aren't winding grip pressure down to a 5-7 out of 10 and making good swings if the grip isn't solid. 

 

The baseball analogies are interesting because more than once videos have been posted showing athletes from other sports and even former HoF pitchers like Nolan Ryan tanking a first pitch after either never being taught to throw well or losing the programming for it by being out of practice, reinforcing that athletic motion is not a natural skill.

 

There's nothing natural about good throwing. It isn't essential for life so it's not innate to the brain and body. Kids and adults who've never seen a ball thrown regularly because they live a sheltered life or come from somewhere that baseball isn't a thing have zero idea how to do it. US-based instructors or players teaching friends who use pitching/throwing as a basis for the basic motion have mentioned many from other countries are often starting from zero trying to do that and couldn't throw a ball to a target to save their lives. Baseball is a heavily North American game, with some carry over into South America and Japan, but many places in the world a directed, overhand throw of the ball is just a foreign motion. 

 

Someone who's played other stick & ball sports or who's engaged in something with a strong throwing motion and learned how to move the body through it might find a lot of the golf swing to feel familiar, but there's not really anything natural about the setup or takeaway either. If you tell anyone to get in a stable, athletic stance odds are they'll only manage one if they've been taught or learned one in the past.

 

In the GAP discussion, most agreed a perfect grip and setup don't produce a good swing in a vacuum. As Monte likes to point out, most people don't even know how to walk correctly, so quite the leap to saying throwing a ball or hitting one is innate. Even swinging a bucket or ball on a string or whatever else takes practice, but as kids we have nothing better to do and are resilient enough not to get seriously injured so we can get most things down through trial and error hours and days at a time. 

 

For someone who knows how to hold the club correctly and how to setup in a stable posture that supports good motion this probably is a relatively straightforward way to get used to starting and making a swing with a good tempo that keeps tension to a minimum. I'd say odds are if those caveats are checked off, though, that they probably aren't someone seeking out video instruction. If this were the magic bullet it'd be the most viewed thing on YouTube and everyone who watched it would be shooting in the 80s or better. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, dpc said:

but you can't teach, "when you feel this much pressure at this point in the throw let go of the ball."  It just has to be felt and learned by trial and error.  No one consciously relaxes their fingers to let go of the ball.  They just do.

 

I know a bunch of pitching instructors who would argue you on that stuff (and be right about it). And I'm sure @MonteScheinblum would tell you the same.

 

They have to teach bowlers when to squeeze and relax their fingers in the bowling ball. I've known a few bowling instructors who will talk about that stuff — which direction you squeeze, when and how hard you squeeze or apply pressure, etc.

[MonteScheinblum]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I know a bunch of pitching instructors who would argue you on that stuff (and be right about it). And I'm sure @MonteScheinblum would tell you the same.

 

They have to teach bowlers when to squeeze and relax their fingers in the bowling ball. I've known a few bowling instructors who will talk about that stuff — which direction you squeeze, when and how hard you squeeze or apply pressure, etc.

Pitching and hitting is taught the same way as golf swing.  My son is a high school QB.  It’s the same.

 

When I had knee surgery in 2017, I was told by the PT’s my walking motion sucked and they taught me to walk better this way.

 

I had a bowling lesson from an PBA hall of famer….same

 

My daughter is being taught better shooting mechanics in basketball as we type.     Same.

 

 

[dpc]

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I know a bunch of pitching instructors who would argue you on that stuff (and be right about it). And I'm sure @MonteScheinblum would tell you the same.

 

They have to teach bowlers when to squeeze and relax their fingers in the bowling ball. I've known a few bowling instructors who will talk about that stuff — which direction you squeeze, when and how hard you squeeze or apply pressure, etc.

Yeah I was afraid I lacked the words to explain what I'm thinking.  Let me first start by saying that I'm fully on board with physical movement teaching: slow motion, breaking down a complex pattern into smaller movements, etc.  It's just when you get to the point of instruction, the student has advanced beyond the point I was trying to highlight.  Let me try again.  Trying to teach a 15 hdcp a three-finger fade would not yield much success because the player lacks the subtlety of feel to reliably repeat that.  It would be akin to trying to teach a slider to 6 year old.

 

Or, let me try this.  I just saw a feature on the news that the inventor of the hulu-hoop passed away and they were discussing that.  You could explain all the mechanics of how to hulu-hoop to someone, but you can't teach the subtlety of feel and movement to keep the hoop up, it first has to be felt.

 

But again I want to emphasize that I'm not arguing for a different way of teaching.  At a recent lesson I just felt completely different from P6 to P7 and I'm in the process of mentally exploring that mostly for myself to find it again should I lose it, or most probably next spring when I haven't touched a club for a few months and I revert to old feels and I need to find this again.

 

[KD1]

I've got two little ones in baseball, soccer, and basketball. they damn sure do teach mechanics.

 

Coincidentally my daughter also had a basketball shooting mechanics session just two days ago. Trying to get her to use the ground and sequence better... sound familiar? lol

[MonteScheinblum]

19 minutes ago, KD1 said:

I've got two little ones in baseball, soccer, and basketball. they damn sure do teach mechanics.

 

Coincidentally my daughter also had a basketball shooting mechanics session just two days ago. Trying to get her to use the ground and sequence better... sound familiar? lol

There’s a fairly large contingent, including instructors, that adhere to the “Swing your swing” method and spout tired phrases like the swing happens from the ground up if anyone dare speak of wrist and arm movements.

 

Well, swing your swing has been misinterpreted for 70 years and I got that from Palmer himself.  Ground up is a redundancy if there is gravity and you hit a ball with your feet touching the ground.

 

I repeat this over and over.  If you want to turn a blind eye to modern technology and teaching methods, aspiring to things written in books 100 years ago, you would be hypocritical not to do the same with your physical health and not use modern methods of diagnosis like blood panels and MRI’s.  Because as we know, doctors, medical insurance, big pharmaceutical companies and the food industry doesn’t care and is just killing us all to make more money.  Yes, there are some doing that, but when food was completely organic and we had no modern medicine….

 

Just saw a stat that since 1840 the age at which half the people died has gone from 35 years old to 80…..so keep improving your game from the teachings of Old Tom Morris. 

Edited July 30 by MonteScheinblum

[MidwestHacker]

14 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I repeat this over and over.  If you want to turn a blind eye to modern technology and teaching methods, aspiring to things written in books 100 years ago, you would be hypocritical not to do the same with your physical health and not use modern methods of diagnosis like blood panels and MRI’s.  Because as we know, doctors, medical insurance, big pharmaceutical companies and the food industry doesn’t care and is just killing us all to make more money.  Yes, there are some doing that, but when food was completely organic and we had no modern medicine….

 

Just saw a stat that since 1840 the age at which half the people died has gone from 35 years old to 80…..so keep improving your game from the teachings of Old Tom Morris. 

 

[dpc]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Pitching and hitting is taught the same way as golf swing.  My son is a high school QB.  It’s the same.

 

When I had knee surgery in 2017, I was told by the PT’s my walking motion sucked and they taught me to walk better this way.

 

I had a bowling lesson from an PBA hall of famer….same

 

My daughter is being taught better shooting mechanics in basketball as we type.     Same.

 

 

Ok, maybe this will head in the direction I'm trying to get to.  I've been bowling in leagues since I was 10 years old; 55 years now.  I suspect the bowling lesson you received didn't cover how to loft the ball, or even more basic how to move your body/arm to control the direction.  I've never seen any mechanics talked about to kids on how to control the direction.  If they tend to roll it to the right (right hander) you tell them to stand next to the right gutter.  Their body will adjust and find a way to get the ball to start more left off their hand or they will dump it in the gutter immediately.

 

Once they achieve a certain level of control you can then proceed to help them diagnose.  Simple one is if they're missing to the right, they're getting to the foul line early compared to their arm swing; either walk slower (or straighter) or start their downswing earlier.  This presumes they're still using a conventional grip and throwing a straight ball.  Once they've attained some additional mastery they move on to a fingertip grip and start trying to hook the ball.  Missing right in that scenario can now involve wrist movements and finger pressures.  There's layers that get added onto that which involve matching equipment to their movement (shoes - slide length, and ball characteristics, etc.)

 

I'm talking about the point in learning the golf swing of the 8 year old trying not to throw it in the right gutter all the time.  By never swinging a golf club at a ball until I was 19 I feel like missed a basic mechanic that 8 year olds learn by feel that I've just now felt/discovered and I want to ensure I don't lose it.

 

In golf,  I'm like the 185 average bowler who has one of those dolly bowling bags and carries 8 balls to league every night; great guy, loves bowling, talks about it earnestly and knows all the subtleties of spare shooting, adjusting to oil patterns, matching balls to match oil patterns, etc.  And yet, I could grab an ill-fitted black rubber house ball and beat him most every time, just like 5 digit or better golfers on here would do to me on the course.  Edit to add, because that bowler didn't take up the game until he was an adult and there's some small basic feels he's missing.  That's not to say he can't find it/learn it, but it's like adding a shim to something to level it out - much easier to start with a level surface.

 

Edited July 30 by dpc

[Hawkeye77]

3 hours ago, otto6457 said:

I am quite certain my "natural/real swing" when I was six was pretty much trash.  Why on earth would I want my "natural/real swing" back?

Mine as a kid with inappropriate clubs still haunts me to this day. 

[dpc]

I've re-read my posts and some of the responses and I'm not being antagonistic to current, early mechanics teaching, and I agree wholeheartedly with @MonteScheinblum, @iacas, et.al. and this is going in a direction I feared it would.  I guess what I would say is that a recent feel (that I know is correct because a respected instructor got me there and said you've got it) I've discovered got me thinking about how a child learns to throw a ball and I feel the golf equivalent of properly throwing a ball for the first time, and that analogy came up in this thread.

 

To sum it up I've intellectually understood for years the mechanics of a "three-finger fade", but finally now believe I see a path to learn the golf swing foundation needed to reliably (on command) apply such a shot if the situation called for it.

 

Edit to add:

Once again I'm editing because I'm not getting to the point I'm searching for, but I think I may have found it.  Earlier I referenced how you teach an 8 year old to not throw the bowling ball in the right gutter by having him start out at the right gutter and he'll learn to straighten out where he throws the ball or something unpleasant happens.

 

That's exactly how the golf pro got me to feel a correct release for the first time!   I was all prepared to have technical/mechanical discussions with him, instead he just put some obstacles in my way and let me figure it out.  I could have read about or been told all the mechanics around the release - even had the instructor take my hands and say, "put them here and move them here" and I never would have gotten it.  Instead he put stuff in the way and said hit the ball; I did so, but not correctly so he said make this movement ("don't let the clubhead pass your hands") he would repeat it over about 10 swings, I kept on exaggerating more and more until (in my mind), "Holy Sh!t! I can't believe I just did that.)

 

Anyway I just wanted to get that out.  Thanks.  I really enjoy being a part of this community. 

 

Edited July 30 by dpc

[MK7Golf21]

48 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There’s a fairly large contingent, including instructors, that adhere to the “Swing your swing” method and spout tired phrases like the swing happens from the ground up if anyone dare speak of wrist and arm movements.

 

Well, swing your swing has been misinterpreted for 70 years and I got that from Palmer himself.  Ground up is a redundancy if there is gravity and you hit a ball with your feet touching the ground.

 

I repeat this over and over.  If you want to turn a blind eye to modern technology and teaching methods, aspiring to things written in books 100 years ago, you would be hypocritical not to do the same with your physical health and not use modern methods of diagnosis like blood panels and MRI’s.  Because as we know, doctors, medical insurance, big pharmaceutical companies and the food industry doesn’t care and is just killing us all to make more money.  Yes, there are some doing that, but when food was completely organic and we had no modern medicine….

 

Just saw a stat that since 1840 the age at which half the people died has gone from 35 years old to 80…..so keep improving your game from the teachings of Old Tom Morris. 

 

Problem with most Dr.'s in the US, they just throw medication at everything, it's what they are taught in med school. I just heard Dana White on a podcast say he will never go to a Dr. again for general health, only for something like surgeries that are needed. What happened to him is what happens to many. They just throw medications at you and the side effects end up hurting you worse than the original condition. I guess they had him on blood pressure medicine and can't remember the other stuff based on his blood work but was really messing him up, he was pretty sick few years back from all this. Stopped taking all of it, got in better shape and started working out which fixed everything. 

[bladehunter]

How does the devolve into the slaying of the paper tiger called “ nobody teaches kids proper mechanics in sports TODAY ?! 🤣.  Nobody said that. At all.  Kids today are over coached if anything.  It’s an arms race.  But I digress. 
 

that statement was said for 30 plus years ago.  It’s absolutely true that more kids learn proper mechanics today.  I simply wonder how some did it 30 plus years ago ?  At some junction it had to be chicken.  Not egg. Or egg not chicken.  No ulterior motives. No gotchas.  Just curiosity.  I get that nobody wants the word “ natural” to be used.  Maybe we change it to “ self discovery “.  Or “ blind pig found an acorn  “?  🤣.  

[MonteScheinblum]

30 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

Problem with most Dr.'s in the US, they just throw medication at everything, it's what they are taught in med school. I just heard Dana White on a podcast say he will never go to a Dr. again for general health, only for something like surgeries that are needed. What happened to him is what happens to many. They just throw medications at you and the side effects end up hurting you worse than the original condition. I guess they had him on blood pressure medicine and can't remember the other stuff based on his blood work but was really messing him up, he was pretty sick few years back from all this. Stopped taking all of it, got in better shape and started working out which fixed everything. 

This I dont disagree with.  Just like in instruction you have people giving people uber strong grips to manage slices and hold lag to stop casting.  However, if you go to a good doctor who actually wants you to get better, he will address the problem using modern understanding and technology.

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

How does the devolve into the slaying of the paper tiger called “ nobody teaches kids proper mechanics in sports TODAY ?! 🤣.  Nobody said that. At all.  Kids today are over coached if anything.  It’s an arms race.  But I digress. 
 

that statement was said for 30 plus years ago.  It’s absolutely true that more kids learn proper mechanics today.  I simply wonder how some did it 30 plus years ago ?  At some junction it had to be chicken.  Not egg. Or egg not chicken.  No ulterior motives. No gotchas.  Just curiosity.  I get that nobody wants the word “ natural” to be used.  Maybe we change it to “ self discovery “.  Or “ blind pig found an acorn  “?  🤣.  

Always a middle ground.  Lack of proper mechanics, bad, cookie cutter mechanics and over teaching for everyone, bad.

[bladehunter]

17 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Always a middle ground.  Lack of proper mechanics, bad, cookie cutter mechanics and over teaching for everyone, bad.

1000% agree. 👍. I just enjoy the discussion. IF it can be had.  

[dcmidnight]

I make it a point to come in this forum once every ten years so...so please know I already regret this post.

 

First, I'll just say that this is a terribly edited video - its really bad. There are some really old clips kluged with some newer ones, I couldn't make it through more than 3 minutes of it before skipping through. There seems to be no continuity, she really needs a better editor.

 

I've worked with Erika off and on the last ten years or so. We've done everything from short/mid yardage short game work entirely through feel to dual force plates/Trackman work to Aimpoint classes that she taught at my club. I typically hate using too many tech/gadgets during a lesson but she sort of changed my mind on that. Not entirely - but I'm coming around. Whatever I had been doing wasn't working so I had to at least be willing to try something new.

 

And I know thats impossible for some people to believe - that there's more than one way of doing business. She does a lot of beginner clinics/camps and - dont freak out - but not everyone wants to nerd out that much about golf, which I think is fine. BTW I think the doctor metaphor is a terrible one but hey its refreshing to see not much has changed in here.

 

 

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

2 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

I make it a point to come in this forum once every ten years so...so please know I already regret this post.

 

First, I'll just say that this is a terribly edited video - its really bad. There are some really old clips kluged with some newer ones, I couldn't make it through more than 3 minutes of it before skipping through. There seems to be no continuity, she really needs a better editor.

 

I've worked with Erika off and on the last ten years or so. We've done everything from short/mid yardage short game work entirely through feel to dual force plates/Trackman work to Aimpoint classes that she taught at my club. I typically hate using too many tech/gadgets during a lesson but she sort of changed my mind on that. Not entirely - but I'm coming around. Whatever I had been doing wasn't working so I had to at least be willing to try something new.

 

And I know thats impossible for some people to believe - that there's more than one way of doing business. She does a lot of beginner clinics/camps and - dont freak out - but not everyone wants to nerd out that much about golf, which I think is fine. BTW I think the doctor metaphor is a terrible one but hey its refreshing to see not much has changed in here.

 

 

 

 

Well, I have several doctors and surgeons as clients and they disagree with you.  Please come back again in 10 years and grace us with your wisdom and judgement.  

[dcmidnight]

Just now, MonteScheinblum said:

Well, I have several doctors and surgeons as clients and they disagree with you.  Please come back again in 10 years and grace us with your wisdom and judgement.  

 

Thanks Monte, always a pleasure.

[sundaypins]

43 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

BTW I think the doctor metaphor is a terrible one but hey its refreshing to see not much has changed in here.

 

I'm not too far behind you.

 

Technology used for examining medical health in order to continue playing a game seems somewhat removed from technology used for examining health of a game- one seems more life or death than the other.    Reminds me that some eat to live while others live to eat.   

Edited July 30 by sundaypins

[PedronNiall]

31 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

First, I'll just say that this is a terribly edited video - its really bad. There are some really old clips kluged with some newer ones, I couldn't make it through more than 3 minutes of it before skipping through. There seems to be no continuity, she really needs a better editor.

 

Went and looked and I believe that channel is grabbing a bunch of paid content from various instructors and posting it up for views. She has her own channel and doesn't look to feature those clips, which seem to be from her full length stuff. 

 

Doubtful they have legit access to her, Leadbetter, and Haney's stuff, but if they do they're making a mess of it as you said. 

[dcmidnight]

1 minute ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Went and looked and I believe that channel is grabbing a bunch of paid content from various instructors and posting it up for views. She has her own channel and doesn't look to feature those clips, which seem to be from her full length stuff. 

 

Doubtful they have legit access to her, Leadbetter, and Haney's stuff, but if they do they're making a mess of it as you said. 

 

Good point, honestly did not even think of that - makes much more sense.

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, dcmidnight said:

 

Good point, honestly did not even think of that - makes much more sense.

 

Not going to take a shot at the OP, but now we have an explanation for the disjointed mess of the video and although I'm not heading to her channel, it sounds like it doesn't do her or her channel any favors with the somewhat one-dimensional clips strung together.  

[Hawkeye77]

Oh what the heck.  I went to her channel and this is what popped up. Don't watch if stuffed monkeys scare you, and that's not a euphemism.  For those who can explain it, and the guy seems legitimately pretty bad and ends up hitting a couple of pretty darn good shots at the end, and seems to have an improved motion, what worked here and why?  

 

 

[wagolfer7]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Oh what the heck.  I went to her channel and this is what popped up. Don't watch if stuffed monkeys scare you, and that's not a euphemism.  For those who can explain it, and the guy seems legitimately pretty bad and ends up hitting a couple of pretty darn good shots at the end, and seems to have an improved motion, what worked here and why?  

 

 

Basically getting the COM moving towards the target. Very common fault of firing with too much weight on the trail side. Low point is always going to be a struggle with that. 

 

I also think that in this particular lesson, for him feeling the arms and hands not doing anything..... was allowing him to be patient enough to get his weight forward first before going at the ball. A good feel for a guy firing off the trail side like that. 

 

With that being said, it's going to improve his game.  But at some point his arms will probably trail his pivot and he'll need to work on feeling like firing his arms again, but hopefully will still be getting to the lead side early enough. 

 

The rope drill I think is again getting the COM forward.  Let the rope sit on the shoulder move forward then swing it. 

 

Hands free and arms out of it are not correct sayings. But feel ain't real and I can see how it helps his sequencing, by him feeling that, it gives him that patience to get forward.  And he obviously still uses his arms. 

[TheDeanAbides]

11 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Pitching and hitting is taught the same way as golf swing.  My son is a high school QB.  It’s the same.

 

When I had knee surgery in 2017, I was told by the PT’s my walking motion sucked and they taught me to walk better this way.

 

I had a bowling lesson from an PBA hall of famer….same

 

My daughter is being taught better shooting mechanics in basketball as we type.     Same.

 

 

Absolutely. Any motor skill can be improved upon with good instruction. There's nothing arcane or 'natural' about any of it. 

 

 

[Nels55]

14 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Oh what the heck.  I went to her channel and this is what popped up. Don't watch if stuffed monkeys scare you, and that's not a euphemism.  For those who can explain it, and the guy seems legitimately pretty bad and ends up hitting a couple of pretty darn good shots at the end, and seems to have an improved motion, what worked here and why?  

 

 

I was fixing to post that video but you beat me to it.  Luckily I have no fear of stuffed monkeys! 

 

Pasive arms body lead swing.  The instruction seemed to work well in this case.  I wonder if she was teaching someone who was over doing the body turn and getting all jammed up if she would have them work on getting the arms moving...