Slower transition for longer clubs because of moment of inertia?

[OlleEriksson]

While playing with the driver yesterday, and realizing it gets steeper than my shorter clubs, it got me thinking about what effect a longer shaft has on the swing mechanics. We often say that a longer club gives you more club head speed because of the increased shaft length, but that assumes the angular velocity around the body is the same. And in my mind it would seem like a longer club would definitely (in general) rotate more slowly around the body just because of its moment of inertia. Of course the weight distribution of a driver is not the same as for other clubs, but in general I would think it would be much harder to get a 2m long driver moving and rotating than a 1m driver. Imagine a 3m driver!

I am not opposing that a longer shaft usually gives you higher club head speed, but if we assume the angular velocity of the driver around the body is slower than an iron, surely that must play into how we transition in the golf swing, meaning you have to delay the transition to some degree and wait for the club head to catch up or get moving in the transition? No? I can't find anything online that relates to this aspect of hitting longer clubs? So what gives? Am I wrong? It would seem to me that this would be one of the major influencers on the driver technique compared to irons, but also to longer irons and hybrids, at least when compared to short iron shots.

 

Anyone has a video that covers the topic of transitioning with longer clubs specifically? 

Best regards

Olle

Edited August 1 by OlleEriksson

[iacas]

I have to be quick about it (I may re-visit it later), but your sand wedge is often the heaviest club in the bag, and the driver the lightest. So that plays a role in the MOI calculations… as I don't think the radius to the COM varies as much as you may think.

[virtuoso]

Yeah, the total weights are dramatically different.

[mshills]

In on this topic, hoping to learn something. My clubs are very long (woods +2.5”, irons +3.75” 😳), and the #1 key I’ve found for me to generate solid contact is patience in transition. Not necessarily slow….patient. 

[rsballer10]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

I have to be quick about it (I may re-visit it later), but your sand wedge is often the heaviest club in the bag, and the driver the lightest. So that plays a role in the MOI calculations… as I don't think the radius to the COM varies as much as you may think.

I haven't measured/calc'd golf club MOI in over a decade so others may chime in as well. IIRC the biggest driver of MOI about the grip was clubhead mass and club length. MOI generally increases throughout the set as the clubs get longer, unless they are intentionally MOI matched.

[virtuoso]

16 minutes ago, mshills said:

In on this topic, hoping to learn something. My clubs are very long (woods +2.5”, irons +3.75” 😳), and the #1 key I’ve found for me to generate solid contact is patience in transition. Not necessarily slow….patient. 

With two hands on the club you can mask over and manage the wrong forces and torques at the handle. With one hand on the club, you don’t have that luxury.

[rsballer10]

57 minutes ago, OlleEriksson said:

I am not opposing that a longer shaft usually gives you higher club head speed

assuming someone has the physical strength and coordination to manage that shaft length then yes. Most people see a point of diminished returns.

 

Quote

but if we assume the angular velocity of the driver around the body is slower than an iron

is that a safe assumption? Shaft length/lie angle changes will affect setup and swing mechanics. Have you ever tried to swing a sand wedge as fast as your driver (without hurting yourself 🙂 )

 

are you referring to orbital angular velocity, or are you assuming angular velocity via a fixed point? A lot of bad assumptions have been made in golf instruction assuming the swing has a fixed center of the arc. Homer Kelley wrote a whole book on it.

Quote

surely that must play into how we transition in the golf swing, meaning you have to delay the transition to some degree and wait for the club head to catch up or get moving in the transition?

I think that's the problem with trying to isolate a single factor in the golf swing. 

 

[OlleEriksson]

47 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

assuming someone has the physical strength and coordination to manage that shaft length then yes. Most people see a point of diminished returns.

 

is that a safe assumption? Shaft length/lie angle changes will affect setup and swing mechanics. Have you ever tried to swing a sand wedge as fast as your driver (without hurting yourself 🙂 )

 

are you referring to orbital angular velocity, or are you assuming angular velocity via a fixed point? A lot of bad assumptions have been made in golf instruction assuming the swing has a fixed center of the arc. Homer Kelley wrote a whole book on it.

I think that's the problem with trying to isolate a single factor in the golf swing. 

 

Ah interesting. Yeah the sand wedge is probably not the club with the highest angular velocity around my body when I think about it. Hmm. It's just that the driver definitely doesn't feel the fastest. 

 

Reading up on MOI matching, I'm starting to think that's what I am feeling here. Maybe my driver sticks out from the rest of the clubs in that regard. The 3W does feel ok actually when I think about it. Also gripping down half an inch to an inch on the driver made a huge difference last night. But going further down on it made it worse. I wasn't sure if that was just my mind playing tricks but maybe I'm MOI matching my driver when I do that. Or maybe just swing weight matching it. Who knows. 😂

 

I am guessing wildly here but maybe I feel the MOI is getting better (lower) when I grip down. But at the same time it feels like I would prefer a higher swing weight overall on the driver. The rest of my clubs I think are really light compared to "normal" clubs and has relatively more weight towards the heads (higher swing weight). At least that's my sensation of it. As I said, guessing wildly. But an interesting topic. 

[golferdude54]

Getting a driver at P3 to point on-plane at the target line with a laser inside the butt end of the grip feels different from a lob wedge to me. It feels like I have to bow my lead wrist more with the driver vs. lob wedge. Just a personal observation.

[onehopstopt]

4 hours ago, mshills said:

In on this topic, hoping to learn something. My clubs are very long (woods +2.5”, irons +3.75” 😳), and the #1 key I’ve found for me to generate solid contact is patience in transition. Not necessarily slow….patient. 

 

3.75" long is absolutely insane. Why are your clubs so long???

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, golferdude54 said:

Getting a driver at P3 to point on-plane at the target line with a laser inside the butt end of the grip feels different from a lob wedge to me. It feels like I have to bow my lead wrist more with the driver vs. lob wedge. Just a personal observation.

makes sense: doesn't bowing flatten the shaft going back? But, why are you necessarily trying to get the shaft pointed at the target line halfway back?

[mshills]

57 minutes ago, onehopstopt said:

 

3.75" long is absolutely insane. Why are your clubs so long???

I’m an adaptive player now, fit by Ping, built by WRX. Believe me, I was shocked that was the way too!