Vokey SM 58/08 - how is it from the sand?

[carrera]

The "sand" club in a 52-58 system

Title says it all...how well does the 58/08 work from the sand...I play in a variety of bunker types...early morning firm packed stuff and softer bunkers on nicer courses. Trying a 52-58 wedge system. Thanks.

[tourblade]

I was using the tp y-cutter 60-06, tp z-groove 56-12 and the tp 52 y-cutter, now that I started using the stan utley technique for chipping/pitching and sand traps i went to a 2 wedge sytem, the vokey sm53 and the sm58-12 and i can hit the ball as high and soft as i want no matter if its fluffy or hard packed sand.

[Ran1Mal]

Have the sm 58.12 and which I bought for more delicate work in close (also carry the SV Tour set 52.10, 56.14, 60.10). Grabbed the Vokey by accident on the way to the bunker the about a month ago. I don't know if its this club or what but I made a radical sandy birdy from that bunker and my sand game has never been better. Retired the 56.14 from my bag entirely.

 

Seems to clip the ball right off the sand. Unlike the nike which was more like swinging a giant ice cream scooper.. More importantly tho is that using the vokey, the shots come out more on line than with the other sand wedges I've tried.

[hypergolf]

I use Vokey 200 series 52-8 and Vokey SM 58-8. 58* works fine out of the bunkers but I am thinking about changing to 58-12 since I play quite often on fluffy bunkers. Plus I tend to dig with the 58-8 on/after rainy days on muddy grounds. However, 58* is very versatile as it can be used for both sand and lob. I use 52 as sand as well when the pin is slightly futher away from the bunker.

[hayam]

works great out of coarse type , harder sand.

 

but if your having a fine soft fluffy sand.. use the 12 , even if it rains...or early in morning.

 

Better to use 12 most of the time for me.. but i feel it warrants the need to own both.

[golfernut78]

i play the vokey 200 52*8 and 58*8 and primarly use the 58* from the sand. i play typically courses with firmer sand and it works very well for me. i can play it sqare for longer shots and still get it up and out and can open it up for high short shots.

[kencanuck]

I used to use the 58/12 SM Vokey (in fact I still have a brand new back up one) for my sand/close in chips before going to the Chikara wedges...I find the 58* much more versatile compared to a 60*...not sure why but just my experience.

 

The SM was great and I could use it all over the place and I play in very similiar sand conditions...from hard packed to light and fluffy. It worked even better when I picked one up that had a custom grind on it so that I could open it right up and the leading edge seemed to be right on the ground as well...pulled off some cool shots with it but would occasionally slide right under the ball!

 

I don't think you will have any problem with the 58/12...

 

Ken

[SwingMan]

Title says it all...how well does the 58/08 work from the sand...I play in a variety of bunker types...early morning firm packed stuff and softer bunkers on nicer courses. Trying a 52-58 wedge system. Thanks.

 

It depends on you -- if you attack and drive through the ball, get more bounce. In the firm packed stuff, just set the leading edge more to the ground with the higher bounce wedge.

 

If you want to stick with the Vokey, the 58-08 should play fine in firm sand. In the bunker, open it up to expose more bounce and don't dig.

 

So it depends on you and whether you know how to make your wedge more versatile with your setup.

 

You could find something with a more versatile grind - for example, like the Cally X Forged 58-10 with the C Grind -- that may be an option -- it's a more versatile wedge than Vokey. Then again, will it fit you? Get a demo.

[withdrew]

My wedge setup is this:

 

Vokey 200 Series 52° GW (Always in my bag)

Vokey Spin Milled 56° SW

Vokey Black Nickel 60° LW

 

Depending upon what course I play, if I want an extra hybrid I will dump the 56° and the 60° and add a Vokey Raw (Tour Issue) 58°.

 

I really like the 58° a lot, it has been terrific out of the sand, a nice cross between the SW and LW, very versatile as others have stated.

[carrera]

Pulled out my Utley short game book last night and saw that he recommends the 58/12 (with some heel relief, I think) as the second wedge in a 52 or 53/58 system. I don't see too many of the 58/12's in local golf shops...the only 58's they seem to stock is the 58/08. Will track one down.

[withdrew]

Pulled out my Utley short game book last night and saw that he recommends the 58/12 (with some heel relief, I think) as the second wedge in a 52 or 53/58 system. I don't see too many of the 58/12's in local golf shops...the only 58's they seem to stock is the 58/08. Will track one down.

If you have the $, anything is possible. You can get the wedge of your choice ground to your specifications, or just get a Scratch. Good luck.

[SwingMan]

Pulled out my Utley short game book last night and saw that he recommends the 58/12 (with some heel relief, I think) as the second wedge in a 52 or 53/58 system. I don't see too many of the 58/12's in local golf shops...the only 58's they seem to stock is the 58/08. Will track one down.

 

 

If you're using Utley, forget the 58-08.

 

Other options are available with 11-12 degrees of bounce.

[hayam]

but... with utley ... its a different grind than retail .. he have some trailing edge grind.

 

I say its still depends on the kind of sand and how hard its packed..

[SwingMan]

but... with utley ... its a different grind than retail .. he have some trailing edge grind.

 

I say its still depends on the kind of sand and how hard its packed..

 

 

Utley takes some metal off the heel and toe and does, what, a P Grind?

 

That works for him -- but the general rule is get a wedge with 12-14 of bounce. You can have someone grind it to fit you and add lead tape.

 

Get a Scratch SFU or SLU (lower leading edge) if you want something that works with Utley; or a similar grind.

 

I'm working with a Cally X Tour 60-11; and the XForged Tour Authentic - works fine.

[hayam]

more like M, L or C?..

 

 

Stan book .. u see his wedge pics have aggresive trailing/heel/toe grind on 58.12 .some trailing edge grind also have the effect of lowering the bounce by narrowing the sole. The width of sole have the effect on bounce..

 

I feel his description is more like EGG grind . And SFU have "flat " yet bigger bounce digger sole.. Stan uses the flattest plane.. very shallow swing.. all his wedges are more flat than standard , and his long irons more upright than standard....

 

But I personally feel the bounce 8 or 12 have less playability problem with stans method which I use on pitch or chip on soft or hard grounds. all works good... the difference is mainly on the sand.. Good to have both bounce for different conditions...

 

my 2 cents.

[carrera]

Utley fans must have cleaned out the inventory of 58/12's...two local Golfsmiths have a lot of 58/08's but no 58/12's.

[theothertwo]

Title says it all...how well does the 58/08 work from the sand...I play in a variety of bunker types...early morning firm packed stuff and softer bunkers on nicer courses. Trying a 52-58 wedge system. Thanks.

 

 

I went with a Vokey 52/8 and 58/8 system or awhile but realized that the 58/08, as great a club as it is, is not a true sand wedge, just not enough bounce for general sand conditions that I play so I went with a 54/14 and 60/04 Vokey system to get the best of both worlds. This way, I have a true 14* bounce sand wedge that acts like a gap because of the 54* and I have 60* low bounce for tight lies and packed sand. Seems to work better around the greens for me as well.

[SwingMan]

more like M, L or C?..

 

 

Stan book .. u see his wedge pics have aggresive trailing/heel/toe grind on 58.12 .some trailing edge grind also have the effect of lowering the bounce by narrowing the sole. The width of sole have the effect on bounce..

 

I feel his description is more like EGG grind . And SFU have "flat " yet bigger bounce digger sole.. Stan uses the flattest plane.. very shallow swing.. all his wedges are more flat than standard , and his long irons more upright than standard....

 

But I personally feel the bounce 8 or 12 have less playability problem with stans method which I use on pitch or chip on soft or hard grounds. all works good... the difference is mainly on the sand.. Good to have both bounce for different conditions...

 

my 2 cents.

 

As to Scratch Wedges and Utley --

 

The SFU doesn't have much camber but I worked it extremely well with the Utley swing last year in softer conditions -- probably normal for most, but Texas was extremely wait (for Texas) last summer. But it is not great for opening up for some flops as the leading edge gets up if you open up in tight conditions. When there is some grass, there are no issues.. Ari of Scratch recommends the SFU for Utley fans.

 

The EGG with 10 of bounce works fine with Utley on firmish conditions -- the leading edge remains closer to the ground when opened.

 

I'm also interested in the SLT, similar to the SFU with the leading edge a bit closer to the ground.

 

I haven't found 8 deg of bounce to work well with me in the Utley Method - a 60 EGG bent to 58 didn't work well for me until I bent it back to 60.

 

When Utley shows the pics of his wedge, he is not saying you must have my wedge -- or Vokey would have a special edition -- lol -- he is only showing what he uses. I'm using a Cally PM Grind just fine -- you don't have to follow Utley religiously - just need to follow what works for you.

[DT Fan]

So, I gather two things from this thread that I didn't know previously:

 

1. It's hard as hell to find a Vokey SM 58-12 wedge.

 

2. Stan Utley is just another in a long line of method teachers. If your equipment doesn't match his method, then I guess you're screwed.

[SwingMan]

So, I gather two things from this thread that I didn't know previously:

 

 

 

2. Stan Utley is just another in a long line of method teachers. If your equipment doesn't match his method, then I guess you're screwed.

 

 

You don't want to be a driver/digger with a picker wedge -- doesn't make much sense; and more importantly, it doesn't work. A picker's wedge will come to a complete halt like a knife into the ground - the correct higher bounce tool will blunt and slide along the ground and make a nice divot afterwards.

 

Yeah, you've got to sell your old wedge and buy a new one -- $100 -- its not as if it is the cost of a new driver -- and those grooves on your wedges were probably wearing thin anyway.

[hayam]

more like M, L or C?..

 

 

Stan book .. u see his wedge pics have aggresive trailing/heel/toe grind on 58.12 .some trailing edge grind also have the effect of lowering the bounce by narrowing the sole. The width of sole have the effect on bounce..

 

I feel his description is more like EGG grind . And SFU have "flat " yet bigger bounce digger sole.. Stan uses the flattest plane.. very shallow swing.. all his wedges are more flat than standard , and his long irons more upright than standard....

 

But I personally feel the bounce 8 or 12 have less playability problem with stans method which I use on pitch or chip on soft or hard grounds. all works good... the difference is mainly on the sand.. Good to have both bounce for different conditions...

 

my 2 cents.

 

As to Scratch Wedges and Utley --

 

The SFU doesn't have much camber but I worked it extremely well with the Utley swing last year in softer conditions -- probably normal for most, but Texas was extremely wait (for Texas) last summer. But it is not great for opening up for some flops as the leading edge gets up if you open up in tight conditions. When there is some grass, there are no issues.. Ari of Scratch recommends the SFU for Utley fans.

 

The EGG with 10 of bounce works fine with Utley on firmish conditions -- the leading edge remains closer to the ground when opened.

 

I'm also interested in the SLT, similar to the SFU with the leading edge a bit closer to the ground.

 

I haven't found 8 deg of bounce to work well with me in the Utley Method - a 60 EGG bent to 58 didn't work well for me until I bent it back to 60.

 

When Utley shows the pics of his wedge, he is not saying you must have my wedge -- or Vokey would have a special edition -- lol -- he is only showing what he uses. I'm using a Cally PM Grind just fine -- you don't have to follow Utley religiously - just need to follow what works for you.

agreed...

 

All depends on lie angle as well.. and plane.. flatter the plane the less bounce.. but in general 10-12 does the job very well for most.

 

Utley lowers his hands to reduce the bounce or open up the club to increase the width of the bounce.. I know its a religion and parrot off his book.. after education, i found bounce and correct grind is really important in shot making around the green and bunkers. I agree with have to try if it works for us. and I found grind like Wishon Micro PCF is also very nice.

[SwingMan]

^^^^^^^

 

 

Yes, I flatten the lie angle, also, as Utley is basically a one plane swing and with his setup, a flatter lie angle fits.

[18th Legion]

MacGregor Don White wedges do have a 58.10. You could also have a 56.10 bent to 58. I know this will increase the bounce, but I do not know if it would be exactly 12*.