Hunter Mahan on the Ryder Cup

[villa]

Will these comments cost him a place?

I don't know if this has been covered (couldn't find it during a search) but if not, let's keep it respectful guys.

Hunter's comments are misplaced but this isn't a discussion about slavery, it's a discussion about whether or not his words will cost him a potential Ryder Cup place.

From BBC:

One of America's most promising young players may have talked himself out of a Ryder Cup place after saying players are "slaves" for the tournament week.

Hunter Mahan, 26, is 12th in the US points table with just two weeks left in their qualifying race, with the top eight earning automatic spots.

"You've got dinners every night - not little dinners, massive ones," he said. "As players, that's the last thing we want. We want to prepare ourselves. You're just a slave that week."

[LP28]

Yeh, I saw what he said to the BBC and then last night on the Golf Channel they interviewed him and he has doing the 2-step!! Saying the exact opposite of what he said just days prior to the BBC. If I was Captain(and I never will be!!) he'd never make it on my short list of Captains picks. He better play his way on or else he'll be watching.......but then again it sounds like that would be OK with him b/c he wouldn't have to go to "massive" dinners every night!!

[Baller]

Hunter is spot on as far as his commentary on the Ryder Cup week. His reasoning is based upon, too much focus on making money for the PGA instead playing the matches. $4750 to play golf with former Ryder cup team members or Captains, mandatory $850 dinners appearances (only $400 for the social) :rolleyes: .

 

Remember when Phil and Tiger were talking about being paid to play in the Ryder Cup matches. That is because they as players see how much money is being made that week off their hard work, but they really can't say no because the event itself stands for American Patriotism, which is indirectly tied in to endorsement money. This explains his use of the working for "free" comment. I disagree with with this line of thinking because playing the Ryder Cup is advertisment, which would increase advertisment revenues, indirectly.

 

If a player says no to play the Ryder Cup, people would I say, this guy is selfish, don't buy, watch, or support him. If players don't want to be apart of the extra circular activities that week provided by the PGA of America and feel it’s a distraction, they shouldn't go or play on the team. They have that right! This way the team is made up of guys who want to be there and know what is required. I don't think Hunter gives a darn about be excluded, he just stating what everybody else is thinking (including Tiger and Phil), but nobody says anything because they want to be politically correct!

[nodoubles]

Hunter Mahan probably won't be a captain's pick now. Good for him for speaking up. All the announcers make the Ryder Cup out to be about representing your country. The players con't get paid and they are media slaves for the week. It seems to me that the players who are the main attraction are the only ones who aren't paid. I don't hear the tv channels going commercial free to bring us this representing your country event. The announcer sure don't do it for nothing.

[littlepingman]

I'm quite sure Mahan doesn't want to be chosen to play. So if he is excluded I'm sure he is getting exactly what he wanted. I agree that the Ryder Cup has lost its way, its less about patriotism and more about lining the pockets of the sponsors, media, PGA of American, etc, etc.

 

But I don't understand the argument about the 'massive' dinners. Just because its on the plate doesn't mean you have to eat all of it. Maybe show a little restraint and you'll be just fine.

 

Oh wait. We are talking about Americans... so much for showing restraint at the dinner table...

[Bomb and Gouge]

But I don't understand the argument about the 'massive' dinners. Just because its on the plate doesn't mean you have to eat all of it. Maybe show a little restraint and you'll be just fine.

 

 

I don't think he was referring to the actual meals- he he he e he!

 

Why would Hunter be on the Ryder Cup team? Isn't he like #50 on the Money List???

[littlepingman]

But I don't understand the argument about the 'massive' dinners. Just because its on the plate doesn't mean you have to eat all of it. Maybe show a little restraint and you'll be just fine.

 

 

I don't think he was referring to the actual meals- he he he e he!

 

Sorry. It was a poor attempt at humor... :rolleyes:

[fitzyro]

this is where players show a lack of understanding of the big picture in my opinion. While they don't get appearence money or stand to win any money for playing in the Ryder Cup directly its pretty hard not to see huge oppurtunities for the likes of Mahan to gain financially from appearing in the Ryder Cup. The Ryder Cup generates a huge amount of coverage for the game of golf in general and particularly the 12 individuals from each team. While the likes of Phil and Tiger do not neccessarily benefit hugely from this additional exposure(due to their huge popularity/marketing campaigns) it is the likes of non golfing household names like Mahan that would.

 

Certainly in Europe the Ryder Cup would capture a non core golf audience and the potential exposure of being involved in an epic game in front of millions of viewers worldwide, under the spotlight of corporations that may be willing to expand into Golf sponsorship in the future, certainly transcends whatever prize money would be on offer.

 

Nobody can tell me that Justin Leonard didn't do well out of making that putt in Brookline and that Sergio, Clarke and Westwood haven't done well comercially out of having the incredicle Ryder Cup records that they do.

 

They may be slaves for the week but the exposure to the earning potential available in being involved that week is just huge and I'd be surprised if Hunter's agent didn't call him up and politely inform him on how much cash he would potentially be leaving out there by indicating that he wouldn't be happy to play on the US team.

 

Aside from the commercial element to which Mahan was referring there is a moral element here, in most lines of work the top brass will try to inforce some sort of community or moral based element which workers take part in...weather it be pro-bono work for law firms, repainting houses in New Orleans as the Saints did this year, or various community outreach programs initiated by large multinationals its generally accepted that most people will in fact do sort charity work... in my opinion the fact that the USPGA and the R&A and other golfing bodies get the bulk of the profit from the Ryder Cup to redistribute into the game should more than make up for the fact that these pros have to go to a couple of dinners and following a regimented program for one week in two years.... its for the good of the game..

[villa]

Some interesting comments guys and to be honest, not what I expected. Yes, you don't get paid for playing in the Ryder Cup. Yes, you have to attend dinners and media events. So what? It's the Ryder Cup.

 

I suppose theoretically, if someone doesn't want to play it's their decision. However, why would someone not want to represent their country or continent in one of the biggest sporting competitions in the world? Because they don't get paid? Because they have attend dinners run by the same organisation that essentially funds their livelihood? Maybe I don't get it.

 

Of course, Hunter hasn't directly said that he doesn't want to play. In fact, I've heard him say several times that he wants to make the team on merit. Very strange.

[LP28]

Hunter Mahan probably won't be a captain's pick now. Good for him for speaking up. All the announcers make the Ryder Cup out to be about representing your country. The players con't get paid and they are media slaves for the week. It seems to me that the players who are the main attraction are the only ones who aren't paid. I don't hear the tv channels going commercial free to bring us this representing your country event. The announcer sure don't do it for nothing.

 

Yeh but why was he back-pedaling about it yesterday?? If that's what you said stick to your guns don't crawl in a hole and say the EXACT opposite of what you said two days prior. As far as I'm concerned these guys shouldn't gripe about not getting paid - this is an event(from a players standpoint) that's about representing your country, not an event to pick up a quick $2/3 hundred large. Who cares what the sponsors make, it's there business and they pay for the rights to show it. Same goes for the Olympic athletes - I've not heard one NHL'r complain/make a statement about not getting paid for playing in the Olympics. Nobody's holding there feet to the fire to play in it, it's optional so they shouldn't play if they are that bitter about the money issue. And to mention that the players are 'slaves' for the week is an absolute joke. This guy wouldn't have the first clue what 'slave' treatment is and if this is it we should all volunteer right now!!

[krustyburger]

1. I don't think any of the players don't want to represent their country. It's the fact that this event has become so commercialized that the true spirit of the event has been lost.

 

2. Before it became so commercialized, money wasn't an issue. Now these guys realize that everyone else but them is getting rich off of the event. They are the ones that people pay to see, but they don't see a cent. Yes, if they have a good match they have the potential to see an increase in endorsement possibilities, but if they screw up, it could cost them as well.

 

3. In my opinion, the lavish dinner events would be the worst part of being on the team. These are huge parties every night that go on for hours, and the players are expected to schmooze with all of the sponsors. Meanwhile, they are supposed to be preparing to play in a heated event. Probably most of them would rather be asleep in their hotel room, but they can't leave. I know if it was me, I wouldn't be able to stand it.

[krustyburger]

Hunter Mahan probably won't be a captain's pick now. Good for him for speaking up. All the announcers make the Ryder Cup out to be about representing your country. The players con't get paid and they are media slaves for the week. It seems to me that the players who are the main attraction are the only ones who aren't paid. I don't hear the tv channels going commercial free to bring us this representing your country event. The announcer sure don't do it for nothing.

 

Yeh but why was he back-pedaling about it yesterday?? If that's what you said stick to your guns don't crawl in a hole and say the EXACT opposite of what you said two days prior. As far as I'm concerned these guys shouldn't gripe about not getting paid - this is an event(from a players standpoint) that's about representing your country, not an event to pick up a quick $2/3 hundred large. Who cares what the sponsors make, it's there business and they pay for the rights to show it. Same goes for the Olympic athletes - I've not heard one NHL'r complain/make a statement about not getting paid for playing in the Olympics. Nobody's holding there feet to the fire to play in it, it's optional so they shouldn't play if they are that bitter about the money issue. And to mention that the players are 'slaves' for the week is an absolute joke. This guy wouldn't have the first clue what 'slave' treatment is and if this is it we should all volunteer right now!!

 

At least in the Olympics, the USOC pays a bonus for each medal won.

 

And from what I've heard, the Olympic Village where the athletes stay is like one big frat party.

[scotton]

The problem is that this is a huge cash cow for everyone involved except the players. So they have to do the dance and entertain these fat cat sponsors all week, but when they point out that they, the players, are the show and that they should have some control over what happens to all this money, they get called unpatriotic.

 

When this popped up a few years ago with Cink and some others, it was never about the players getting paid. They know that they're getting paid a ton of money to play golf the rest of the year. The issue is that you can't have a Ryder Cup without the players, and they want some input into what happens to the money generated by their hard work, be it charity or Hooters Tour retirement funds or whatever.

 

Like someone pointed out above, everyone loves to point out that these rich guys should be honored to play for their country one week out of the year (I'm including the President's Cup), but the PGAs aren't taking a pay cut for the week for their countries and neither are the networks.

 

Dance, monkey. Show us your patriotism or else.

 

(It should be noted that I would probably pop an eye out of my skull to have the chance to play in a Ryder Cup).

[LP28]

Hunter Mahan probably won't be a captain's pick now. Good for him for speaking up. All the announcers make the Ryder Cup out to be about representing your country. The players con't get paid and they are media slaves for the week. It seems to me that the players who are the main attraction are the only ones who aren't paid. I don't hear the tv channels going commercial free to bring us this representing your country event. The announcer sure don't do it for nothing.

 

Yeh but why was he back-pedaling about it yesterday?? If that's what you said stick to your guns don't crawl in a hole and say the EXACT opposite of what you said two days prior. As far as I'm concerned these guys shouldn't gripe about not getting paid - this is an event(from a players standpoint) that's about representing your country, not an event to pick up a quick $2/3 hundred large. Who cares what the sponsors make, it's there business and they pay for the rights to show it. Same goes for the Olympic athletes - I've not heard one NHL'r complain/make a statement about not getting paid for playing in the Olympics. Nobody's holding there feet to the fire to play in it, it's optional so they shouldn't play if they are that bitter about the money issue. And to mention that the players are 'slaves' for the week is an absolute joke. This guy wouldn't have the first clue what 'slave' treatment is and if this is it we should all volunteer right now!!

 

At least in the Olympics, the USOC pays a bonus for each medal won.

 

And from what I've heard, the Olympic Village where the athletes stay is like one big frat party.

 

Exactly, so who needs to get paid for that.......all the girls you want :rolleyes: and all the beer you can drink ;) !!

[mat562]

Probably not the most diplomatic of comments and, albeit there's a ring of truth to them, I'm not surprised he's doing the old Wile E Coyote mid-air backpedalling trick now.

 

If I were a Ryder Cup captain (again, I think I'm somewhere towards the very bottom of the list of potential captains) I'd be looking for the best team I could muster and an ill-advised soundbite wouldn't necessarily put me off picking a player who could be an asset to my team.

 

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it ranks alongside pea-flicking and writing insulting comments on a priest's dinner menu in the place of your autograph when it comes to the wielding of the Captain's Discipline Stick... :rolleyes:

[villa]

Just been having a quick look on the web and although I may be wrong, I can't think of any sport where the participants are paid for representing their country.

 

Granted, Olympic athletes do get bonuses for winning medals but as we've covered, the financial rewards will probably be equally as great for performing well (or being part of a winning team) in the Ryder Cup.

 

Soccer players don't get paid for representing their country yet for 99% of them, it's the highlight of their careers if they do. The same goes for most sports.

 

Why do golfers think they're different? Why should they get paid to play? It's just a couple of dinners and a few interviews. Aside from winning Majors, I've always thought of the Ryder Cup as the pinnacle of a golfing C.V.

 

I'm still a bit shocked at some of the points you guys have made but I guess everyone's entitled to their opinion.

[krustyburger]

I don't think it's fair to compare the Ryder Cup to the Olympics. For most Olympic athletes, the whole reason they train is to win a gold medal. That's the pinnacle of their career. And at least in the U.S., athletes do receive a stipend to train, and get free room and board at the training facility, so they are being paid. It's not a lot, but it's something.

[villa]

I don't think it's fair to compare the Ryder Cup to the Olympics. For most Olympic athletes, the whole reason they train is to win a gold medal. That's the pinnacle of their career. And at least in the U.S., athletes do receive a stipend to train, and get free room and board at the training facility, so they are being paid. It's not a lot, but it's something.

Very true mate. I wasn't really referring to track events though. The U.S has had many successful Basketball and Ice Hockey teams made up with players from the NBA and NHL and I don't remember them moaning about not getting paid or being "slaves". Maybe they didn't have to sit through a couple of "massive" dinners but I'm sure there was media attention.

 

Really though, I was referring to any sport where you have the opportunity to compete for your country.

[Arafel]

The problem is that this is a huge cash cow for everyone involved except the players. So they have to do the dance and entertain these fat cat sponsors all week, but when they point out that they, the players, are the show and that they should have some control over what happens to all this money, they get called unpatriotic.

 

When this popped up a few years ago with Cink and some others, it was never about the players getting paid. They know that they're getting paid a ton of money to play golf the rest of the year. The issue is that you can't have a Ryder Cup without the players, and they want some input into what happens to the money generated by their hard work, be it charity or Hooters Tour retirement funds or whatever.

 

Like someone pointed out above, everyone loves to point out that these rich guys should be honored to play for their country one week out of the year (I'm including the President's Cup), but the PGAs aren't taking a pay cut for the week for their countries and neither are the networks.

Dance, monkey. Show us your patriotism or else.

 

(It should be noted that I would probably pop an eye out of my skull to have the chance to play in a Ryder Cup).

 

I think that this is what it all boils down to. Dance monkey or else. Do it for the patriotism while everyone else is clearly doing it for the money. People can sense hypocrisy even when they can't articulate it all that well. I think that it is all Hunter and everybody else before him is trying to point out.

[mat562]

In fairness to Mahan, all he's done is bellyached slightly - albeit in a public way that's inevitably got him onto the sports pages. As I recall, Mark O'Meara went the whole hog a year or two back and even suggested a dollar amount that he felt was due to the players.

 

I'm split on this; a Ryder Cup Berth would mean as much to me as pretty much any tour win, and to be part of a winning team doesn't really have a cash equivalent for me - I'm old fashioned and representing my country is something I'd crawl stark naked over broken glass for. In these days of sponsorships and endorsement deals for appearing on packets of crisps, a Ryder Cup win has it's own financial rewards for the player anyway, in terms of exposure and increased marketability.

 

That said, there certainly has been an increasing amount of profiteering by the authorities (some of the PGA's money grabbing antics at the Belfry in recent years have been shameless in the extreme) and I can see why a player would feel put out when he sees the amounts that are being generated whilst all he gets is a team uniform and a bag to auction off for charity.

 

Personally, I wouldn't give a toss and I'd be out there playing for the team and my country but a lot of pros these days seem to measure success in terms of the amount on the cheque and not in terms of their win tally or OOM position.

[DemolitionMan]

Personally, I read Mahan's interview and gathered his complaints were a reflection of the real problem - the U.S. is losing.

 

There has to be some excuse, right? So this month's version of why the U.S. is losing is because the U.S. players all have a routine that best gets them prepared for a tournament and to play their best. The Ryder Cup week routine is far from the norm. The U.S. players can't handle it well and they lose because they are more focused on corporate schmooze fests than golf. So to Mahan, if the U.S. players are not there to play their best but instead put on a "show", then they should share in the profiteering that everyone else does.

 

I see some truth in all of this, I also see an excuse, but mostly I do see a lack of priority on winning the Ryder Cup from the U.S. team no matter what the reasons. It just seems like another reason why the Euro team has a better mindset going in and they perform to their peaks for the week.

[sweeet]

I see some truth in all of this, I also see an excuse, but mostly I do see a lack of priority on winning the Ryder Cup from the U.S. team no matter what the reasons. It just seems like another reason why the Euro team has a better mindset going in and they perform to their peaks for the week.

 

 

Great point. Europe seems to prioritize winning the Ryder Cup more than the US through recent years.

[littlepingman]

I see some truth in all of this, I also see an excuse, but mostly I do see a lack of priority on winning the Ryder Cup from the U.S. team no matter what the reasons. It just seems like another reason why the Euro team has a better mindset going in and they perform to their peaks for the week.

 

 

Great point. Europe seems to prioritize winning the Ryder Cup more than the US through recent years.

 

It would be much higher on the priority list if the Americans where actually winning it. Its my opinion that if the Americans had been winning it the last few years it would hold much more importance to them.

[Slugsy]

Personally, I read Mahan's interview and gathered his complaints were a reflection of the real problem - the U.S. is losing.

 

There has to be some excuse, right? So this month's version of why the U.S. is losing is because the U.S. players all have a routine that best gets them prepared for a tournament and to play their best. The Ryder Cup week routine is far from the norm. The U.S. players can't handle it well and they lose because they are more focused on corporate schmooze fests than golf. So to Mahan, if the U.S. players are not there to play their best but instead put on a "show", then they should share in the profiteering that everyone else does.

 

I see some truth in all of this, I also see an excuse, but mostly I do see a lack of priority on winning the Ryder Cup from the U.S. team no matter what the reasons. It just seems like another reason why the Euro team has a better mindset going in and they perform to their peaks for the week.

 

 

Completely agree - if the US had been whipping Europe over the last few years, they wouldn't be whining so much now!

[villa]

Personally, I read Mahan's interview and gathered his complaints were a reflection of the real problem - the U.S. is losing.

 

There has to be some excuse, right? So this month's version of why the U.S. is losing is because the U.S. players all have a routine that best gets them prepared for a tournament and to play their best. The Ryder Cup week routine is far from the norm. The U.S. players can't handle it well and they lose because they are more focused on corporate schmooze fests than golf. So to Mahan, if the U.S. players are not there to play their best but instead put on a "show", then they should share in the profiteering that everyone else does.

 

I see some truth in all of this, I also see an excuse, but mostly I do see a lack of priority on winning the Ryder Cup from the U.S. team no matter what the reasons. It just seems like another reason why the Euro team has a better mindset going in and they perform to their peaks for the week.

Good post mate.

 

I know Hunter didn't mention getting paid but what if there was a financial incentive? Would we see the U.S perform differently? What would that say about the team?

 

Someone quoted earlier "Dance, monkey. Show us your patriotism or else".

 

Change that to "Dance, monkey. Chase the mighty dollar".

[bl8d]

Hunter's comments are absolutely spot on.

The Rydercup has turned into a 3ring circus with so many acts that it is hard for the players to stay focused. The wives and girlfriends are needlessly paraded and dragged into the spotlight as well. The slagging the wives endure in the press doesn't need to be part of the Rydercup.

Don't give me that crap about how the Euros are such team players because they've had their own prima donnas in the past and still do. Ballesteros has a well recorded history of not moving till the check arrives.

This isn't about money being paid out to the players, but about how much money is made by the PGA and how it is applied without any input from the players.

Lets not forget this is a business and stop throwing the flag in players faces. Maybe the right thing to do would be to throw the flag at the PGA and see them donate all the profits of the Rydercup to the returning veterans care.

[villa]

Hunter's comments are absolutely spot on.

The Rydercup has turned into a 3ring circus with so many acts that it is hard for the players to stay focused. The wives and girlfriends are needlessly paraded and dragged into the spotlight as well. The slagging the wives endure in the press doesn't need to be part of the Rydercup.

Don't give me that crap about how the Euros are such team players because they've had their own prima donnas in the past and still do. Ballesteros has a well recorded history of not moving till the check arrives.

This isn't about money being paid out to the players, but about how much money is made by the PGA and how it is applied without any input from the players.

Lets not forget this is a business and stop throwing the flag in players faces. Maybe the right thing to do would be to throw the flag at the PGA and see them donate all the profits of the Rydercup to the returning veterans care.

No-one has given you any crap about how the Euro's are such a team. Seve wasn't perfect (far from it), but in all fairness, he would've walked over hot coals to play in the Ryder Cup.

 

I'm surprised at how angry some guys are getting about the PGA making money out of it. As far as I know, the PGA have now donated over $1 billion to charity since their emergence. Should they be doing more?

 

Of course the PGA, the T.V companies and the sponsors make money out of it but so what? Do we feel that the players are so hard done by that they should get a share? Do we feel that the PGA doesn't do enough for them already and the players shouldn't have to sit through a couple of dinners?

 

Both sides have to do it. Does the U.S team need more preparation?

 

Once again, I just don't get it.

[hillster32]

I think if you research some old comments by Duval and O'Meara you'll find that the players do not want the money, they want some say in where it goes. Charities.

 

But to be honest i am so over the Ryder Cup. Part of it could be that we always get our butts kicked but I think its more than that. From the American side having both the presidents cup and the ryder cup is an issue. The top guys have to play every year. That has to wear on your enthusiasm. It does for me as a spectator. To me the Ryder CUp just looks like no fun. There is all this contrived pressure. When i think of Hal Sutton in that Stupid Cowboy hat i just laugh. Or Crenshaw with his dramatic pre-comeback speech. Seriously this whole event needs to get a grip. The American Captains have consultations with famous leaders and coaches to prepare? Are you serious? These guys are not a team. period. Teams play whole seasons together, thats where the drama comes from. The persona of this event from this side of the pond has become ridiculous. In my opionion. Why do the Euro's win. They make more putts. They have more fun. they break balls. They smile. We take it all so seriously. I have been to a Ryder Cup and you can see it on there faces.

 

I think what is telling about Mahan's comments is that he has never played in a Ryder Cup but he has in a Presidents Cup. So he must be basing his thoughts on what he hears from the other players. It is interesting that every two years we hear comments like this, but on the opposite years we never here a thing. The players like the presidents cup.

 

I think they need to combine these two events. Do it like pick up basketball at the park. Winner stays on. That may drum up some more enthusiasm.

 

All that being said, mahn's reference to "slave" like treatment is unfortunate. Pick up a book.

[villa]

Good post hillster32 and some interesting thoughts.

 

To clear up the O'Meara (and others) comments regarding being paid to play. I believe O'Meara stated that players or their designated charities should be compensated for their participation.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that after '99, each member of the U.S team now receives $200,000. Half to be given to a charity of their choice and half to be given to a University to develop the game. 12 players = $2.4. Not exactly pocket change.

[villa]

The guys that are "bored" or "so over" with the Ryder Cup brings me back to an article I read recently.

 

It stated that the U.S sports fan isn't really bothered about international competition and would much rather watch competing States or Cities as opposed to Countries. It also mentioned that you may become bored with the Ryder Cup if the U.S lost this year. I dismissed this as typical U.K journalism but judging by some of the posts, it seems that a lot of you think that way.

 

Again, I'm not trying to cause a heated debate, just interested in your thoughts.