Hunter Mahan on the Ryder Cup

[hillster32]

The guys that are "bored" or "so over" with the Ryder Cup brings me back to an article I read recently.

 

It stated that the U.S sports fan isn't really bothered about international competition and would much rather watch competing States or Cities as opposed to Countries. It also mentioned that you may become bored with the Ryder Cup if the U.S lost this year. I dismissed this as typical U.K journalism but judging by some of the posts, it seems that a lot of you think that way.

 

Again, I'm not trying to cause a heated debate, just interested in your thoughts.

 

Oh I would definitely agree with that article. We get more excited for our domestic competitions. ie - Yankees v Red Sox or Colts v Patriots. Mostly its due to the fact that we think we are better than everybody else :russian_roulette: but it is also because our internationally competing "teams" are not really teams, they are collections of "stars". If you look at Olympic basketball its a good example. People will root much harder for their home team than they will for the Olympic team because their team has a history and is a unit, our Olympic team are mercenaries. I am not saying its right but it is what it is. I think you would see Americans extremely interested in International competitions if we had national Teams that stuck together for a while. Also, geographically speaking we are very isolated, we do not have the world view that you Europeans have because aside from Mexico and Canada we are on our own. I think this is why we are so aloof from international competitions as fans, we have a hard time identifying with places we have no exposure to. Its much easier to get fired up for Yankess v Red Sox because we know those cities and their personalities. Just my theory.

 

Losing is a big part of it with the Ryder Cup no doubt but I do not think that is the whole reason I have lost interest. I just think it is so contrived, so fake from our side. If you watch the Europeans play they just have so much fun, granted they are winning which helps, and our guys are not. Plus, I hate all this emphasis on the Captain? Its ridiculous. They don't call plays! There are no X's and O's. I think our players are in a situation where they are compelled to revere the Ryder Cup experience and deep down they don't, at least the ones who are there consistently. Then there are the presence of wives and celebrities inside the ropes??? Why? I think rivarlies have to delevop naturally and that is not happening anymore. Once the Euro's started winning the Cup became a big deal and the media just started running with it and it got ridiculous.

 

Now an exception to all of this is the British Open. Thats an international competition that we LOVE.(Mostly because we watch it during our workday!) Actually most of the majors are international competitions aren't they?

 

We are definitely a strange/arrogant lot over here of which I am a card carrying member!

[villa]

It stated that the U.S sports fan isn't really bothered about international competition and would much rather watch competing States or Cities as opposed to Countries. It also mentioned that you may become bored with the Ryder Cup if the U.S lost this year. I dismissed this as typical U.K journalism but judging by some of the posts, it seems that a lot of you think that way.

Oh I would definitely agree with that article.

That's one of the most open and honest posts I've ever read on this site mate :russian_roulette: I thought I was going to get my head bitten off for asking the question.

 

It's difficult for me to grasp because as a football (alright, soccer) fan, the national team is supported equally as much (if not more) than a league team. I'm from England but the same can be said for the rest of Europe.

 

The one thing the article did allude to was the baseball World Cup (not the World Series). The U.S won the last one but it's been dominated by Cuba in recent years. The question was, does the U.S sports fan ignore it because they weren't winning or because they don't care about international competition? I guess you've answered it mate!

[DemolitionMan]

I find it kind of funny that people post as if Americans have the monopoly on pre-event hype. Do you really believe the media over in the U.K. and the rest of Europe does not talk about Ryder Cup all year? It's a different style and presentation, but it is no less relatively 'hyped'. What? The Europe team does not have corporate sponsors/gatherings at their hosted Ryder Cup venue? No wives? No Dinners?

 

Yes, it is true the short attention spanned Americans lose interest when the team is losing...even at the local level. Take any team in any city in any sport, in losing years, attendance drops, maybe only a little in towns where the venue is small and the fans are die hards, but it still drops, and in other cities, it drops a lot. Teams get so bad sometimes the city loses interest and owners consider moving to a new city for a fresh start (and to rob some money from the unsuspecting public coffers). I still think this year's Ryder Cup will get decent ratings and a lot of the lack of interest we see is the jaded POV of internet posting.

 

What is funny about the Ryder Cup is ABC used to broadcast the event but stopped in 1987 because the ratings were low for many years running and they attributed that to the U.S. winning all the time and viewers were bored. It got demoted to cable coverage for awhile until NBC picked it back up again when the U.S. lost two in a row, then had a draw. NBC felt it was all of the sudden compelling to broadcast an event to pick up on the U.S. now feeling they need to get some revenge and get the cup back. The U.S. won the next two, the ratings went up, and the event became relatively exciting again.

 

Isn't is ironic, we are talking Ryder Cup boredom, but here we go with the same story line from 20 years ago only worse. Europe has won the last three (last 5 out of 6), and after trying cowboy hats, Tiger-Phil pairings, and aw-shucks Lehman, it's time for some revenge. Of course, without Tiger, it's not that serious of a threat to the U.S. team's chance of winning, but it sure is a threat to TV ratings.

[hodgw2]

Villa,

 

When other sports represent their country it's an Olympic sport golf's Ryder Cup is just a media thing. The whole patriotism claim is just a way to coerce the players into not complaining about everyone else lining their pockets off of them. :russian_roulette:

[hodgw2]

It stated that the U.S sports fan isn't really bothered about international competition and would much rather watch competing States or Cities as opposed to Countries. It also mentioned that you may become bored with the Ryder Cup if the U.S lost this year. I dismissed this as typical U.K journalism but judging by some of the posts, it seems that a lot of you think that way.

Oh I would definitely agree with that article.

That's one of the most open and honest posts I've ever read on this site mate :russian_roulette: I thought I was going to get my head bitten off for asking the question.

 

It's difficult for me to grasp because as a football (alright, soccer) fan, the national team is supported equally as much (if not more) than a league team. I'm from England but the same can be said for the rest of Europe.

 

The one thing the article did allude to was the baseball World Cup (not the World Series). The U.S won the last one but it's been dominated by Cuba in recent years. The question was, does the U.S sports fan ignore it because they weren't winning or because they don't care about international competition? I guess you've answered it mate!

 

Honestly it's not because we lose. First off,Golf will never be a team game. So the whole " 1 team/goal for USA" comes off as being cheesy, not to mention the players don't look like they buy it for one minute.

 

Secondly, Americans don't care about global competition. Soccer is the biggest sport in the world and Americans don't give 2 clicks about it. Why? because its not American. Look at the Olympic basketball team, honestly we weren't losing because the other countries teams were better than ours, we were losing because we didn't care enough (arrogance) to learn and recognize the difference between the rules of the two leagues. (NBA and FIBA) So our players just show up and end up playing a totally different GAME than they play at home and losing. If Americans cared about international competition, the NBA would have the same rules as the rest of the world instead of playing THEIR game every 2/4 years.

 

So basically the rest of the WORLD cares more about beating the USA, than the USA cares about beating THEM! :)

[poppyhillsguy]

I applaud his honesty. After a long season, I'm not sure I'd be up for it either.

[Birdman of Alcatraz]

1) Players are overpaid for what the do on the US TOUR.

 

2) Playing for the Ryder team gaurantee selection for several high ranking tournaments.

 

3) It seems strange for a country renowed for Patrotism, such as the US to be focusing inwards on sport, admittedly no one likes losing, is because as a nation maybe over the years you've never really had to cope with it?

 

4) I hope the US wins this time as I fear for the future of the cup, but lets face it Euros our team selection isn't working this year and will need tweaking for next time.

[Awsi Dooger]

I hope this keep him off the team. Wouldn't be a loss. I followed Mahan at Doral this year, expecting to see a young talented upcoming star.

 

I couldn't have been less impressed. Not with his game, with his conduct. He had a wayward driver that day and Mahan was acting like he was the center of the universe. He sulked and made gestures after every drive, mocking his swing. It was laughable.

 

At one point after a wild push on #11 he forgot to pick up his tee and was wandering behind his playing partner, who had yet to tee off. I forget who it was, a European. Monty was also in that group. Anyway, the third guy glared at Mahan, like, "Aren't you forgetting something, and are you going to grow up?" When Mahan didn't figure it out, the guy picked Mahan's tee out of the ground and tossed it at him.

[rjw3715]

I hope this keep him off the team. Wouldn't be a loss. I followed Mahan at Doral this year, expecting to see a young talented upcoming star.

 

I couldn't have been less impressed. Not with his game, with his conduct. He had a wayward driver that day and Mahan was acting like he was the center of the universe. He sulked and made gestures after every drive, mocking his swing. It was laughable.

 

At one point after a wild push on #11 he forgot to pick up his tee and was wandering behind his playing partner, who had yet to tee off. I forget who it was, a European. Monty was also in that group. Anyway, the third guy glared at Mahan, like, "Aren't you forgetting something, and are you going to grow up?" When Mahan didn't figure it out, the guy picked Mahan's tee out of the ground and tossed it at him.

 

Yep haha i remember. That was Englishman Nick Dougherty by the way.

 

The players who are making it up into the Ryder Cup spots are the ones on tour who are making the most Prize money and to expect to be paid to represent your country in an event with such history is bizzare to me with the money these guys make.

 

On the slavery point similar comments were made recently surrounding Christiano Ronaldo and his potentially moving Football(Soccer) teams (The Uk and euro guys will probably know what im on about and maybe some of those in the states). Sepp Blatter (Fifa guvnor) said that Ronaldo was being treated like a slave by the team that are paying him upwards of £120,000 a week.

This is in my mind at least very similar to those guys expecting to be paid by the PGA (without whom they wouldnt be able to lead the lifes they do) in an event which since its origin has been about patriotism rather than a payday.

 

Mahans comments are completely ridiculous and unless he makes it into an automatic spot he should be left out of an event he so clearly does not wish to play in. The U.s.a team needs guys who want to be there and win if their going to stand a chance this time around.

[bambooluv]

Honestly, I for one being a ryder cup fan, (go USA) really don't want Hunter on the team anymore. Am I saying I don't like the guy, no. Just stating he might be good for the team, but I would rather have a lower ranked player that has some positive attitude for the team.

[NEVA3PUTT]

AM I ON A ISLAND BY MYSELF OR DOES ANYONE ELSE HATE TEAM GOLF

[mat562]

I never had Tony Jacklin or Bernhard Gallacher knocking on my door but some of my best times on the course have been playing for the Club, my County or on the Royal Navy/Combined Services teams during my younger days. Foursomes or fourball play with a partner who you get on with well and who you're comfortable having alongside you is a fantastic way to play the game and can result in some silly-low scoring and a lot of enjoyment against some good opponents.

 

I love it, and being part of a team is one of the best experiences in golf for me. A tight match, and coming down the 18th as anchor man in the singles play is about as good as it gets in my opinion.

 

Whenever I was selected for team play, at whatever level, I always felt lucky to be out there playing and having someone else paying for the privilege. Never once did I feel like I was being taken advantage of or that my time was valuable enough to turn up my nose at a match. Sadly, I see a few pros who seem to think precisely that and it amazes me.

 

Honestly, as a pro, I'd run my blood to water for a chance to represent my country in an event like the Ryder Cup.

[LP28]

AM I ON A ISLAND BY MYSELF OR DOES ANYONE ELSE HATE TEAM GOLF

 

I like team golf myself. Of course I come from a team-sport background growing up(hockey and baseball) so I like it when, on occassion, they have these team events. I guess if I grew up playing only golf I'd probably not like it as much. If I was captain(which will never ever ever ever happen!!)I'd use my captain's picks on all guys that grew up playing team-sports as youngsters.........I wouldn't care where they were in the point standing. Guys like Jerry Kelly, Jay Williamson, etc. I think these type of individual mentalities would work best in this type of environment................but then again WTF do I know!!

[gpo]

Here is my opinion. By the time most players make it on the Ryder Cup team they are set for life in terms of money. That is unless they are stupid. So once you have enough money to live the rest of your life on what is the next most important thing? Time!!!! Making these guys go to dinner with a bunch of sponsors is cr@p. I personally would hate to eat dinner with a bunch of pain in the Word not allowed old guys who paid top dollar to eat with me.

[Golfer4Life]

I believe that he would be a bad influence on the team. His comments maybe true, but he should have kept them to himself until after the competition. I will hope that if he doesn't make it on points, that Captain Azinger does not pick him. He doesn't deserve to be on the team, his attitude is poison and exactly what the European squad feeds from.

 

So much for the "one" tournament winner. He reminds me of Chris Riley, Chris who? Exactly!

[Mactan]

The slavery comment was ignorant. Nothing more.

 

The attitude however, is one of entitlement. This is also a form of ignorance. It came across (and this is of course subjective by nature) to some as correct (see posts above), refreshingly honest, etc, or not. I agree it was honest. I also believe it was small of him in the grand scheme of things and in the good fortune he has to play a game so well that he can live well without ever having to be a Champion. Champions (more than just tournament winners), at least the ones that are worth admiring are many things, even some imperfect things, but never small or petty in their love of the game.

 

Where he is indeed educated is on his need??/desire?? to be paid for playing in the Ryder cup. The merits of this, versus the money the event generates can be argued on either side (for or against).

 

His comments SEEM (do not know him personally and must admit I could be, like anyone else, completely wrong) to imply like of the game, but love of self. I cannot fault him for that, but it says something him that I do fault. Perhaps when he matures he will become a Champion. He is not one today.

[villa]

Villa,

 

When other sports represent their country it's an Olympic sport golf's Ryder Cup is just a media thing. The whole patriotism claim is just a way to coerce the players into not complaining about everyone else lining their pockets off of them. :rolleyes:

That was really my point mate. In the U.K, soccer, rugby, cricket etc are played internationally pretty much all year round and the coverage they get is equal to if not greater than domestic games. There doesn't seem to be many sports where the U.S compete regularly against other countries and those that are (Baseball World Cup, Lacrosse World Cup) don't get much coverage because it's not what the viewers want.

 

AM I ON A ISLAND BY MYSELF OR DOES ANYONE ELSE HATE TEAM GOLF

More than half the golf I played as an amateur was team golf and more than half of that was matchplay. I understand that the team element is the same in the U.S high school and collegiate systems although I'm not sure whether any of it is matchplay.

[jkumpire]

If he helps the US win the cup, then put him on. Unless he is saying something illegal or grossly immoral, put him on the team. If he has the guts to say this, he has the guts to make the big putt on 18 with the cup on the line IMO.

[smileykj218]

After today's round I think his comments are the least of his worries. Unless he has a stellar performance tomorrow I think his spot is a lock. A spot in the gallery.

[hodgw2]

That was really my point mate. In the U.K, soccer, rugby, cricket etc are played internationally pretty much all year round and the coverage they get is equal to if not greater than domestic games. There doesn't seem to be many sports where the U.S compete regularly against other countries and those that are (Baseball World Cup, Lacrosse World Cup) don't get much coverage because it's not what the viewers want.

 

This is an example of our "We are the USA arrogance." We really don't care if we win or lose the Ryder Cup. The big players never even mention it unless they are asked about it. Kenny Perry is the only guy who has repeatedly stated how bad he wants to make the team.

 

Tiger isn't going just to support the team (not worth it, could be doing other stuff $) and I wouldn't be suprised if another US player skips it due to some fluke injury suffered during the Fed Ex Cup.

 

The Media outlets push it majorly (for $ of course) but it comes down to the players and the American ones don't care about this event. They are Independent Contractors (LONERS) they don't perfer playing together. They do pretty well in singles but normally the Cup has already been desided by then due to their terrible team play. Just My Honest Opinion

[villa]

This is an example of our "We are the USA arrogance." We really don't care if we win or lose the Ryder Cup. The big players never even mention it unless they are asked about it. Kenny Perry is the only guy who has repeatedly stated how bad he wants to make the team.

 

Tiger isn't going just to support the team (not worth it, could be doing other stuff $) and I wouldn't be suprised if another US player skips it due to some fluke injury suffered during the Fed Ex Cup.

 

The Media outlets push it majorly (for $ of course) but it comes down to the players and the American ones don't care about this event. They are Independent Contractors (LONERS) they don't perfer playing together. They do pretty well in singles but normally the Cup has already been desided by then due to their terrible team play. Just My Honest Opinion

As I say mate, it's interesting for me to see the different perspectives on your side of the pond. Maybe things are changing. I remember Tom Lehman wearing his Ryder Cup waterproof jacket with pride in PGA Tour events but I couldn't see many players doing that now. Bernhard Langer was once asked which was more important to him, his Major victories or his Ryder Cup victories. His answer "I honestly can't decide".

 

To be honest, I feel the same about the World Cup of golf. Freddie Couples and DLIII won it 4 times, as did Jack and Arnie (what a partnership!) and although Tiger has won it with O'Meara ('99) and Duval ('00), he no longer competes in it. I'm certainly not trying to pick out Tiger but I presume that the U.S fan isn't particularly interested in it?

 

I still don't agree with Kenny Perry's decision to skip the Open Championship but at the end of the day, he's shown nothing but desire to make the Ryder Cup team. Maybe you need more Kenny Perry's and fewer Hunter Mahan's?

[golfhut]

Whatever happened to pride and the honor to represent your country whether it is in sport or in another way. The week may be a tough one, but keep in mind it is the game of golf which made your level of living possible and this country for giving you the opportunity and tools to do it.

 

As for the PGA - stop looking for ways to make money in everything you do. You have an obligation to the game as well. Get rid of the mindset that if something makes money it is good for the game.

 

Rather than making money for yourself take the money you raise and give it to charities like Feed My Starving Children. During the week have the golfers talk to local kids about the values, character and discipline necessary to succeed and the respect shown to others who have those traits.

 

You want to increase golf's exposure to the world, try that. Any respectable person would take pride in being a part of that.

[villa]

Whatever happened to pride and the honor to represent your country whether it is in sport or in another way. The week may be a tough one, but keep in mind it is the game of golf which made your level of living possible and this country for giving you the opportunity and tools to do it.

 

As for the PGA - stop looking for ways to make money in everything you do. You have an obligation to the game as well. Get rid of the mindset that if something makes money it is good for the game.

 

Rather than making money for yourself take the money you raise and give it to charities like Feed My Starving Children. During the week have the golfers talk to local kids about the values, character and discipline necessary to succeed and the respect shown to others who have those traits.

 

You want to increase golf's exposure to the world, try that. Any respectable person would take pride in being a part of that.

Good points mate.

 

Charity wise, I believe the PGA now gives each player on the U.S team $200,000. Half to be given to a charity of their choice and half to be donated to a University golf programme. $2.4m is a lot of money. Let's not forget as well that the PGA has now reached over $1 billion in charity donations.

 

Granted they do make a profit out of the Ryder Cup but it's wrong to suggest that they're not giving back.

[golfhut]

I acknowledge the PGA does a great job with charities and money needs to be made in any business. However, I am referring only to Ryder Cup/President Cup Matches. These are matches where I would like to see it as a matter of pride for the players, which may be difficult if they feel like they're working the "red light district" by being ushered from event to event to make money for the PGA. (That comment may be a bit strong and I apologize if it offends anyone, however that is the impression I get from some comments).

Doing this with the money will switch the attention from making a profit to the desire to help others which I believe will help restore the desire to participate and bring the spirit back to it.

[mat562]

I might be wrong here, but I think it's the PGA of America who are involved with the Ryder Cup - as opposed to the PGA Tour who have excellent credentials when it comes to charitable efforts and donations - including that amazing sum of $1 billion raised through tournament olf and the ancillaries.

 

All good points raised above, and a man after my own heart when it comes to representing your country by the sounds of it. One downside of the big money era in professional sport seems to be the tendency in some cases to become a bit mercenary in events where, historically, the payment was in pride and a sense of honour to play for your country. Some pros could do with a reality check (rather than one for a few hundred grand) in my opinion and should remember how fortunate they are and what a privileged position they occupy. Sitting round a table when you don't necessarily want to be there is something I've done a lot of in my time - and I never made a fuss or asked for a truckload of money for the privilege.

 

In the grand scheme of things, eating some free food and listening to some Wing Commander RAF (Retd.) waffling on about how he once broke 80 isn't exactly water torture.

[hodgw2]

This is an example of our "We are the USA arrogance." We really don't care if we win or lose the Ryder Cup. The big players never even mention it unless they are asked about it. Kenny Perry is the only guy who has repeatedly stated how bad he wants to make the team.

 

Tiger isn't going just to support the team (not worth it, could be doing other stuff $) and I wouldn't be suprised if another US player skips it due to some fluke injury suffered during the Fed Ex Cup.

 

The Media outlets push it majorly (for $ of course) but it comes down to the players and the American ones don't care about this event. They are Independent Contractors (LONERS) they don't perfer playing together. They do pretty well in singles but normally the Cup has already been desided by then due to their terrible team play. Just My Honest Opinion

As I say mate, it's interesting for me to see the different perspectives on your side of the pond. Maybe things are changing. I remember Tom Lehman wearing his Ryder Cup waterproof jacket with pride in PGA Tour events but I couldn't see many players doing that now. Bernhard Langer was once asked which was more important to him, his Major victories or his Ryder Cup victories. His answer "I honestly can't decide".

 

To be honest, I feel the same about the World Cup of golf. Freddie Couples and DLIII won it 4 times, as did Jack and Arnie (what a partnership!) and although Tiger has won it with O'Meara ('99) and Duval ('00), he no longer competes in it. I'm certainly not trying to pick out Tiger but I presume that the U.S fan isn't particularly interested in it?

 

I still don't agree with Kenny Perry's decision to skip the Open Championship but at the end of the day, he's shown nothing but desire to make the Ryder Cup team. Maybe you need more Kenny Perry's and fewer Hunter Mahan's?

I respect that he had the balls to say something everyone else feels, as young Americans we are tired of being blatantly lied to and dared to know better. Like "Operation Iraqi Freedom", why are we trying to free Iraqi's when we live in America? Not our problem. Sounds like "Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom".

 

Its just more rebelliousness from being lied to and taken advantage of then being unpatriotic. If the PGA is making a boat load of money by parading me around, then why can't I be paid? Easy to tell others "do it for your country" when you are making money.

 

It's like when adults spell bad words out rather than say them around children who can't spell. Imagine your boss pointing at you (adult) and saying " I got promoted because I take all the C-R-E-D-I-T for his W-O-R-K." :jester: or Your best friend charging people to come in YOUR yard and pet YOUR dog. If its YOUR yard and dog, then why is HE the ONLY one making money? :cheesy:

[jkumpire]

You know,

 

Everyone says how the US guys don't care about the Cup, and the Euros do, but I think you are missing something:

 

Who is asking the questions?

 

Media types in the US and in Europe have their own filters, not only about what is important (i.e. a lot more noise about the corrupt chinese running and trashing the olympics int he US than in Europe), but about what qustions are asked.

 

The Euro press asks a lot more questions about the Cup than the American press, for whatever reason. Therefore, it seems like the Euros care about the Cup more. I would be willing to bet that the US players feel the same way about the Cup the Euros do, just like the older grnerations of US/GBI players did too. The US media has other fish to fry, so they don't ask.

[villa]

I respect that he had the balls to say something everyone else feels, as young Americans we are tired of being blatantly lied to and dared to know better. Like "Operation Iraqi Freedom", why are we trying to free Iraqi's when we live in America? Not our problem. Sounds like "Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom".

 

Its just more rebelliousness from being lied to and taken advantage of then being unpatriotic. If the PGA is making a boat load of money by parading me around, then why can't I be paid? Easy to tell others "do it for your country" when you are making money.

 

It's like when adults spell bad words out rather than say them around children who can't spell. Imagine your boss pointing at you (adult) and saying " I got promoted because I take all the C-R-E-D-I-T for his W-O-R-K." :jester: or Your best friend charging people to come in YOUR yard and pet YOUR dog. If its YOUR yard and dog, then why is HE the ONLY one making money? :cheesy:

Interesting viewpoint mate.

 

I'm not sure I can completely agree with the comparison between the Ryder Cup and the War in Iraq but I see where you're coming from. Let's not turn this into a political debate though.

 

I still believe that representing your country is the pinnacle of a sporting career. I'd like to think that I wouldn't care who's making money out of it. That being said, I'm not in their position so who am I to say?

 

This has been an interesting thread and has thrown up some views that I certainly wasn't expecting to hear.

[RNF]

What it sounds like Mahan needs is a new manager. One who negotiates his contracts with bonuses for making the Ryder Cup team; like most everyone else.

 

One other more important thing - if he has no desire to be on the team (actually a dislike of the idea of participating) it removes the drive to suceed to the level necessary to make the team. The subconscious mind is far more powerful than the conscious.