My final swing with Golftec

TM golf guy · June 25, 2009

Title pretty much says it all. I have been working with Golftec for 2 years, and today I took my final lesson. I am going to a new instructor in a few weeks to see where he takes me. I have been working a bit with iteachgolf as well, and he as been a great help to me. Just wanted to get some thoughts on my final swing.

TM, your grip looks as strong as mine...kinda hard to see though and could be the angle. With your HC, I am sure you know how to move the ball around, but what is your natural shape? I see an instructor once a week and have been trying to learn how to hit a consistent fade for a while, really been struggling with it.

I think your swing looks very nice btw.

In that particular swing, my grip was a bit stronger than it normally is. My natural shot shape (and my preferred shot shape) is a draw. Stick with it on the fade, I'm sure you'll get it. Thanks for the comments.

Paulw007 · June 25, 2009

Nice swing.....

I have been working with iteach for about a year and a half. Every question I have thrown at him, which has been a ton by the way, he has been able to answer in a technically sound way. He has such a great passion to teach and watch people get better. Personally I have gone from a 12-15 hcp down to as low as a 1 hcp. Right now I at a 3.6 hcp. Whoever you work with you have to realize that the golf swing is a journey, one that I really don't think ever completely ends.

yoonie · June 25, 2009

i can't view the vid or whatever here at work, but i've always been skeptical of the whole golf-tec teacing ideaology.

good to hear that you are finding a new coach. hopefully its at a full grass range where you can see immediate results of your swing instead of hitting into the net.

Looking forward to viewing when i get home.

gl
If you are making a swing change what does seeing ball flight have to do with it other than distracting you from what is important? What exactly don't you like about GolfTEC's teaching "ideology"? Just wondering.

IMO, there's only one reason to make a swing change- ball flight. There's also only one reason to swing- to create the ball flight you desire. Therefore, I don't see how ball flight could possibly distract you from what's important, since it's the only thing that's important. Personally, I also learn a lot from the shape, depth, and sound of my divots which you don't get indoors.

Nice swing TM. Very much a centered, rotational swinging motion. Kind of reminds me of duval, actually, even though you guys aren't that similar technically.

iteachgolf · June 25, 2009

i can't view the vid or whatever here at work, but i've always been skeptical of the whole golf-tec teacing ideaology.

good to hear that you are finding a new coach. hopefully its at a full grass range where you can see immediate results of your swing instead of hitting into the net.

Looking forward to viewing when i get home.

gl
If you are making a swing change what does seeing ball flight have to do with it other than distracting you from what is important? What exactly don't you like about GolfTEC's teaching "ideology"? Just wondering.

IMO, there's only one reason to make a swing change- ball flight. There's also only one reason to swing- to create the ball flight you desire. Therefore, I don't see how ball flight could possibly distract you from what's important, since it's the only thing that's important. Personally, I also learn a lot from the shape, depth, and sound of my divots which you don't get indoors.

Nice swing TM. Very much a centered, rotational swinging motion. Kind of reminds me of duval, actually, even though you guys aren't that similar technically.

You're correct ball flight will tell you when to make a swing change. What I'm saying is that while you are making that change initially I believe it can be easier to not see the ball flight. Then the focus is actually making the swing change. I can manipulate the clubface to create all kinds of ballflights but that doesn't mean the swing is better or will old up under pressure. Golftec also does playing lessons and lessons outdoors as well, not everything is indoors.

Paulw007 · June 25, 2009

I always use the range (grass) after lessons. Maybe not the same day but in-between lessons I go to the range and play golf. That tells me plenty.

Not sure I buy the "there's only one reason to make a swing change- ball flight. There's also only one reason to swing- to create the ball flight you desire". At some point you'll need to understand how and why the ball snap hooked, or why you slice it off the planet. Basic fundementals, which is 90% of the swing IMO, can be worked on indoors. Plus in the summer it's great being able to practice indoors!

yoonie · June 25, 2009

I always use the range (grass) after lessons. Maybe not the same day but in-between lessons I go to the range and play golf. That tells me plenty.

Not sure I buy the "there's only one reason to make a swing change- ball flight. There's also only one reason to swing- to create the ball flight you desire". At some point you'll need to understand how and why the ball snap hooked, or why you slice it off the planet. Basic fundementals, which is 90% of the swing IMO, can be worked on indoors. Plus in the summer it's great being able to practice indoors!

If you're wondering how or why your ball snap hooked, or how/why you slice it off the planet, wouldn't that imply that you're having ball flight problems? And especially if you're trying to make swing changes (like OP was), would you make swing changes if you were happy with your ball flight? Or if the swing changes you made didn't improve your ballflight?

I will amend my statement, however. There is ONE other reason I would make a swing change- health.

edit: I just wanted to say, I wasn't saying don't use video, if that's what you guys were thinking.

midgiteyehigh · June 25, 2009

This is the closest I could get to impact:

I guess you can still work on shaft lean at impact...you are leaning away from the target and the club is probably doing the same.

Well there ya go. GolfTEC, the same company that hangs their hat on the use of the what they promote as the end all, be all of technology doesn't even have technology that captures more than 30fps. iteach could tell us for sure, but the guys in Denver have been operating at over 20% profit from the get go and they ain't changing 5hit. When they came out with SEVA putt I laughed my a** off. Because they tried to do it with thgeir current technology without spending anymore money. It was a total joke. Do they still advertise that POS SEVA putt? HAHHAHAHAHAH

there wasn't a GBOSH that went by when a franchise owner wanted know why when they were going to go wireless. Clinton would get so pissed off he couldn't see straight. Any questioning the methodology was career suicide with them. What's ironic is that this busines of teaching is built on debate. They want to say that everybody learns differently but go off the reservation and see how long it takes before you get reprimanded. :black eye:

I never once worked with anyone on impact while I was teaching there. That says two things. 1. I wasn't the best teacher I could be, and 2. My bosses knew even less because they were too busy with client contacts and sales reports to notice. I have GT clients call me everyday wanting to work with me. Why? Because they know now that I like to work on grass. I've done it both ways. I taught for 15 years off of pure ball flight. In the two short years I was at GT I gave roughly 3k lessons. 90% using video. I was not very popular with mgt because in the summer over 50% of my book was outside. Not every GT has a place to teach shortgame some of their instructors may never see you hit a ball more than 10ft. There national director of instruction Master Professional and Colorado TOY believes that shortgame can be taught in a net. Sure you can chip into a net for an hour off of a mat but I guarendamtee you'll be exposed the first time you get on a tight bentgrass lie Also, judging distance is impossible in a net. Chipping and pitching really need to be done outdoors to get it right. I will never bend on that.

If you are fortunate enough to get an iteach hang in there with him. But he is the exception. I thought I knew what I was doing because I had a vast library of swings and received a lot of plate appreances. But I didn't know dick. It's all about dynamics. Swing positions are not dynamics. They are just,that positions.

I agree that ball flight can be a distraction. But what needs to happen is the instructor must absoloutly know just from framerates of around 30fps if your impact positions are correct. Like I said, some teachers are better than others. But I've seen guys take at least a lesson a week and groove a move in the bay for 5 months in the winter and can't get the ball airborne once they go outside. It happens all the time. If you want to focus on style GT can get you their. But it doesn't guarantee that you'll be able to bust a grape on the golf course.

The biggest farce with GT is the fee structure. If you are a store manager you get to charge more for lessons because you are given the title of Director of Instruction. Yea baby! Now that's rich.. But what if the new guy has given 10k more lessons than the DoI? My manager didn't teach a lesson for 10 years when he came to GT. He had been selling golf cars. He was promoted to store manager and given one of the 3 or 4 best markets in North America after 14 months. He teaches 1,400 lessons his first year at GT, so combine that with the 10 years prior to coming to GT and you have a guy charging $100+ for a lesson who has given on average 127 lessons a year? On top of all that the guy is a total tool that teaches worse than he plays, and he could'nt play dead!

Lastly, and you know I love you Dan, but the great majority of the swings in the library are not used. I used Appleby DTL and Els Front 4 iron for the 1st year and 1/2 I was there. Tronner finally got some Tiger video that I used for set-up and a DTL of him from 2006 I think. The big lie is that the tour averages that they hang their hats on are from tour pro's that most of the world has never heard of. If you had a cup of coffee on the Tight Lie mini tour you were included in the "tour average" I also think they mixed up seniors and ladies with the few PGA Tour players they had. That can't be a good representation of what the best players in the world do. The whole system is flawed. Let's say that they averages of the top 100 money winners on the PGA Tour. How in the world can that be what you want to teach the average golfer? I'll give Clinton and Assel credit, they sure came up with an awesome business model. But unless they become current with the latest technology I think they are going to lose their grip. Especially with the economy the way it is.

I know exactly how the averages came about. The took what, 120 players put them in the harness and measured them at what they considered the most important positions and through all in a hat out come the "Tour Averages according to Mike Clinton". So the model they use is anything but perfect. After the initial eval the TA's mean dick. Just because Curtis Strange has a shoulder tilt of X amount of degrees doesn't mean that it's even remotely relevant to a 30 handicapper. They told us explicitly at GTU to avoid the subject of what number the players we were using in our lesson had. The GT tour averages have not been updated since the company purchased their business license in 1997.

To me that is misleading at the least and malpractice at the worst.

Drive4Show · June 26, 2009

What instructor are you going to switch to?

Neil Wilkins.

Does he work out of Sienna Plantation?

Gibles · June 26, 2009

So what do you think you've spent on lessons over the last two years?

tchilds · June 26, 2009

What instructor are you going to switch to?

Neil Wilkins.

Does he work out of Sienna Plantation?

Yes, that is where he is located.

Jrose · June 26, 2009

What instructor are you going to switch to?

Neil Wilkins. He uses the K-Vest, which is very similar to the GolfTEC harness. GolfTEC actually sued the makers of the K-Vest because they had patents that the K-Vest broke. I believe 3 of the top 5 instructors currently use the K-Vest, and TPI does as well.

Neil Wilkins is a great teacher. Been to him many times, you won't be disappointed.