Tiger might be in trouble

[yoonie]

Interesting thread about what people like and dislike about other's swings. I'm just rolling! Hey, everybody is due their opinions so that's fine.

 

 

FACT: The final score is all that matters!

 

 

Interesting, how not much has changed in the past 40 years. Length is still a dominate factor in the game, not driver accuracy.

 

The only important statistic is still the score, - 11.13.67 - SI Vault

 

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...80553/index.htm

 

 

Oh, and it doesn't matter how old you when you started are or how many kids you beat when you are 7. One day a 15 yr old will take up golf for the first time and in two years time kick that 7 yr old's butt when he is 17. I'm just saying. True dat!

 

Yeah, it's true, the game of golf is all about scores. The swing/fitness/beginners forum, however, isn't all about scores, which is why it isn't called the scores/scoring/scorage forum.

[jhperna]

I don't think that anyone on this thread said Tiger is a God. Just as iteach said "Tiger is in trouble" others disagree based on his ball striking statistics. My feeling from the beginning was that the part of his game that needs to get fixed quick is his short game. He cannot putt the way he did at Bethpage and win majors. He also putted horrible at the Masters. Some people have gone a little too far on this thread, but disagree with iteach I do. If I'm not mistaken the Swing Vision from 11 that everyone is clamoring for was a horrible swing, he turned over the face trying to hit a power fade. Anyone is going to hit a bad shot, even the great Tiger Woods. The facts are in the stats, and the stats say his ball striking is solid and his short game is holding him back!!

[Nspiel58]

Just watching Tiger and AK and seeing the difference between two talented minds and bodies at work. I was thinking, you can analyze the swing all you want, and you're bound to find some kink/issue at any given time. What I'm seeing with Tiger is brutal consistency, strength of mind, focus talent, resiliency, a life's work.

I see "Iteachgolf" that you're 24, if your description is accurate. You're obviously a studious young man, but you're also brash, as 24 year olds tend to be. I'm 50. I'm finally coming to know myself well after 50 years and one thing I know for sure is that good golfers are also mentally smart and emotionally tough. You can have all the talent in the world, a scientific understanding of swing mechanics, and still be crap on the course. It will interesting to see what TW comes up with when he decides to author an instructional program. I for one will see what he has to say.

[Ezgolfer]

Yes , but we are not talking about mental toughness and the rest in this thread .

 

It is about TIGER WOODS SWING and his knowledge of the swing .

[Nspiel58]

It's obvious how well Tiger knows his swing.

[JD3]

I don't think that anyone on this thread said Tiger is a God. Just as iteach said "Tiger is in trouble" others disagree based on his ball striking statistics. My feeling from the beginning was that the part of his game that needs to get fixed quick is his short game. He cannot putt the way he did at Bethpage and win majors. He also putted horrible at the Masters. Some people have gone a little too far on this thread, but disagree with iteach I do. If I'm not mistaken the Swing Vision from 11 that everyone is clamoring for was a horrible swing, he turned over the face trying to hit a power fade. Anyone is going to hit a bad shot, even the great Tiger Woods. The facts are in the stats, and the stats say his ball striking is solid and his short game is holding him back!!

good post JH, it's taken on faith TW can putt and only his driver gets him into trouble. as you point out, stats say otherwise. he hasn't putted well at Augusta in years

[yoonie]

I don't think that anyone on this thread said Tiger is a God. Just as iteach said "Tiger is in trouble" others disagree based on his ball striking statistics. My feeling from the beginning was that the part of his game that needs to get fixed quick is his short game. He cannot putt the way he did at Bethpage and win majors. He also putted horrible at the Masters. Some people have gone a little too far on this thread, but disagree with iteach I do. If I'm not mistaken the Swing Vision from 11 that everyone is clamoring for was a horrible swing, he turned over the face trying to hit a power fade. Anyone is going to hit a bad shot, even the great Tiger Woods. The facts are in the stats, and the stats say his ball striking is solid and his short game is holding him back!!

 

I very much agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but the stats don't show just how badly he's missed the shots he's mishit- it's a little unnerving IMO. Also, half this thread is people saying pretty much exactly that- Tiger is a God. He has X wins, he can't be wrong, he could beat everyone on this board, he must know the golf swing better than anyone, he has more majors than anyone not named jack nicklaus, of course he knows the physics behind ballflight, he has almost as many wins as snead, there's no way his ideas are wrong etc. etc.

[pbcgolfer]

iteachgolf is one of the most knowledgeable people on here about the golf swing there is probably, all his post are informative and are true, the guy just flat out knows his stuff. The Head Pro at my course worked with Sam Snead for over 30 yrs. and gave him lessons later on in his career flying him all over the country, he was saying all the same stuff iteachgolf was, left wrist NEEDS to be facing your target DTL on your backswing no questions asked. Tiger missing the green with a SW is something Hank needs to be worried about.

[TourTeacher]

This is so funny. I'm rolling! The great thing is everybody is due their opinion.

 

 

FACT: The only thing that matters is score.

 

Why doesn't anybody rip Furyk's swing? I'm not. There is nothing wrong with winning the US Open with any kind of swing (that works).

 

 

Interesting, how not much has changed in the past 40 years. Length is still a dominate factor in the game, not driving accuracy.

 

The only important statistic is still the score, - 11.13.67 - SI Vault

 

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...80553/index.htm

 

 

Oh, and it doesn't matter what age you start playing golf. Some 15 yr old will take up golf for the first time and in two years kick that 7 yr old's butt when he is 17.

[TheWoat]

This is the SWING forum, and this thread discusses Tiger's swing.

 

This isnt like some a-hole yelling "Terrible Read!!!" after he putts for birdie on the 17th hole (which just happened). I dont see any hate or jealousy in the OPs opinions, just giving his opinion that his swing is getting away from where it needs to be.

[martinez]

It is about TIGER WOODS SWING and his knowledge of the swing .

 

Exactly, and even though he knows his swing well it doesn't mean that between back there and where he's going he isn't going to make some poor swings.

 

My advice to anyone studying Tiger is to take off your 'rose/TGM/S+T/OPS/Ballard/SFer' colored glasses and try to figure out why he's made the changes he's made and where he might be going with it.

[JD3]

Martinez,

 

maybe you can start a thread called "Tiger's Secret" and give us some clues. seems like you have a better handle on him than anyone! you can open it with "it's easy if I tell you where to look." (cool)

[Ezgolfer]

All things aside putting is what decides the game . Hunter had a chance if Tiger did not hole the 20 footer .

 

I guess we spend too much time talking about swing .

[TheWoat]

Not just the swing, we also talk too much about putters, drivers, irons, shafts, grips, clubfitting, the tour in general, WITB, range finders... everything cept ferrules and fitness get over done around here... but that is the point of this forum, isnt it?

[mjulian]

This is the SWING forum, and this thread discusses Tiger's swing.

 

This isnt like some a-hole yelling "Terrible Read!!!" after he putts for birdie on the 17th hole (which just happened). I dont see any hate or jealousy in the OPs opinions, just giving his opinion that his swing is getting away from where it needs to be.

 

"...his (TW) swing is getting away from where it needs to be"..??? Are you serious?

 

The guy just finished 72 holes hitting 73% of fairways (averaging 312 off the tee) and 76% of greens. How is that NOT where it needs to be? He finished top ten in both the years' majors and it was PUTTING that stopped him from winning both.

 

Not everyone subscribes to the passive hands/body rotation face-squaring method so popular here; and it appears that neither do many of the world's elite golfers. Get over it. These guys were born with superior hand/eye coordination and they use it to their advantage as they should.

[TourTeacher]

I think the rest of the Tour should copy Tiger's mistakes so they can be equal to the greatest player to ever play the game of golf.

 

Oh, did I mention I have been skiing with Tiger and beat him at ping pong? :tongue:

[yoonie]

His swing looked great today, great tempo. It seems his set up for certain shots has been changing from day to day, maybe he's just relearning how to hit certain shots more consistently.

[darpar]

With so many different swings techniques,from both past and present very successful

pro's,is there REALLY a technically perfect way to hit a golf ball?

And if so,according to who?

 

The way Tiger's been playing lately,especially finding more fairways than say

3 or 4 years ago,I'd say he's owns his swing probably more than anyone currently

playing on tour.

In the heat of battle on 18,one of the hardest finishing holes on tour,I'd say he easily

passed the test.

Making some key putts, has been the biggest reason he hasn't won even more times

since his return to action.

[TheWoat]

This is the SWING forum, and this thread discusses Tiger's swing.

 

This isnt like some a-hole yelling "Terrible Read!!!" after he putts for birdie on the 17th hole (which just happened). I dont see any hate or jealousy in the OPs opinions, just giving his opinion that his swing is getting away from where it needs to be.

 

"...his (TW) swing is getting away from where it needs to be"..??? Are you serious?

The guy just finished 72 holes hitting 73% of fairways (averaging 312 off the tee) and 76% of greens. How is that NOT where it needs to be? He finished top ten in both the years' majors and it was PUTTING that stopped him from winning both.

 

Not everyone subscribes to the passive hands/body rotation face-squaring method so popular here; and it appears that neither do many of the world's elite golfers. Get over it. These guys were born with superior hand/eye coordination and they use it to their advantage as they should.

 

Valid question, I hope the OP addresses it.

 

As for the passive hands comment, it was popular here last year, and this years thing is all about "not raising the handle" through impact.

[CJM850]

The guy on the left swing is terrible he will never WIN 60 + tournaments and 14 majors with that.

[golfnut5438]

OMG, did any of you see Tiger's wrist angle while holding that trophy today!! I hope someone TiVo'd it and can post it on YouTube. Amazing how he gets it done with it that position!!!! ;)

[glcoach]

This is just comical. The golf channel rips him for being to shut at the top, iteach rips him for being to open and in the mean time he just keeps doing what he always does and that's being at the top on Sunday. All you arm-chair Monday morning quarterbacks would be better off ripping on somebody who is actually struggling. He hits a bad shot it's his crappy swing, he hits it good it's because he's so talented he could win with any swing, we get it already. If you're so good iteach, go make a champion and stop writting posts here about how you could fix tigers "horrible" swing

 

This guy seems angry at you iteachgolf

 

That is because he is Hank or works for Hank. I have gotten a hateful PM from this dude once for calling out Tiger's swing a full year prior to receiving the PM. Obviously he holds on to posts and holds grudges for long periods of time.

 

Keep at it iteach, what you say is accurate.

[GolfChannel]

Personally, as a board junkie I've never met anyone that knew their stuff as well as iTeachGolf. The fact that he is getting this flamed by weekend keyboard warriors is beyond me. Tiger has a lot wrong with his game, but most of the time he just wins because he is perhaps one of the best feel grinders on tour and he just has a higher golf IQ than everyone else.

 

If you don't intend to talk about the merits of the OP then perhaps we should create a forum called the wasteland where all of you hacks can post whatever you want and none of us have to lose any brain cells from reading it.

[iteachgolf]

Reread what I wrote. I said he'd still win and win a lot but not dominate the way he once did. There is so much to the game other than the swing. If we go on stats Sean OHair, John Senden, Zach Johnson, David Toms, and Hunter Mahan should win all the time. Tiger is currently 71st in GIR this year and has been number 1 the last few years. I'd say if you are gonna use statistics it supports my point.

[fats]

OMG, did any of you see Tiger's wrist angle while holding that trophy today!! I hope someone TiVo'd it and can post it on YouTube. Amazing how he gets it done with it that position!!!! ;)

 

 

Great catch...LOL...Haney taught him that I'm sure...teacher of the year!!! :)

Fats

[darpar]

Reread what I wrote. I said he'd still win and win a lot but not dominate the way he once did. There is so much to the game other than the swing. If we go on stats Sean OHair, John Senden, Zach Johnson, David Toms, and Hunter Mahan should win all the time. Tiger is currently 71st in GIR this year and has been number 1 the last few years. I'd say if you are gonna use statistics it supports my point.

 

I think you have to give some credit to the competition,there's been a few players

who've upped their game since Tiger came on the scene.

Also,courses like Augusta have been lengthened a bit,so TW's not going to overpower

some golf courses like he once did.

Plus he's a family man now,so his priorities and practice schedule might be a little different these days.

Still not a bad showing since coming back from major knee surgery.

[GolfChannel]

Reread what I wrote. I said he'd still win and win a lot but not dominate the way he once did. There is so much to the game other than the swing. If we go on stats Sean OHair, John Senden, Zach Johnson, David Toms, and Hunter Mahan should win all the time. Tiger is currently 71st in GIR this year and has been number 1 the last few years. I'd say if you are gonna use statistics it supports my point.

 

If you want to talk about this from a purely analytical stand point we should really be able to create private invite only threads so that these things can be discussed logically. Don't let them get to you, because you are right, but that would mean surgically removing them from Tiger's genitals long enough to allow them to think with their own brain.

[magnum184]

Would somebody post the dang dang video!!!!!!!!

 

Teach, was he hitting a low fade with the swing that has you vomitting? LOL. Seems maintaining flexion a little longer would be pretty OK for that considering his delivery, huh?

 

His rolling of open the face isn't exactly the cure for his #3 roll, but rather the setup for the #3 and the delivery where he can use the roll power transfer, right?

 

Tiger manipulates hand path with purpose..............from what I see. Closer to right leg, closer to left leg, without changing ball position that much because of his shallowness. It's in the geometry, is it not? See the differences in the way he's playing the stinger now versus Harmon's way?

 

He focuses on finishes to dial in certain releases/trajectories.........just above belt high, in the face, and over the shoulder..........don't you think those thoughts will alter flexion and extension without consciousness?

 

The more shallow lines, from hip high to hip high, can cause quite a significant change in clubhead/face appearance and movement. And it should and will be different than steeper angles. Lots of illusions.

 

Maybe he's using a specific arc with those wedge swings.........................earlier combination of #2 and #3?

 

I'm curious about this swing.................somebody please.

 

Where would you say Tiger has improved the most...............which area of ballstriking? Longer irons would be my guess. Longer irons, fairway woods. Take advantage of the 5's/long 3's. Seeing a lot more of those today.

 

Seems that most are gradually moving to Stack and Tiltish type patterns. I'm seeing a lot of the players incorporating bits and pieces and improving. It's sound. Especially the way the game is played today, right? Mid to short irons being the key with these incredible drivers we are being exposed to. Game is being played there. Would it be fair to suggest that S&T is perhaps designed to limit #3 accumulator? You just don't see many players coming from a shallow positions where #3 can be really utilized.......................why is that?

 

Sorry for all the questions.

[Bones01gt]

Tiger will dominate well into his 40's. Without question. He will dominate until he decides he is tired of dominating. How old will he be when he comes to that conclusion? I just said well into his 40's, probably mid to late 40's. I'm sure he'll win 20+ majors. I'm gonna throw 25 out there as a baseline number, probably closer to 30 than 20. He will be 33 next year. If he plays till he's say...45 that is 12 more years, 4 majors per year for 48 majors. Being that he has just entered his prime years as far as golfer's prime years go, he will definitely win 10 more. I'd say he'll win ten more before he turns 40. I could break this down more, but I'm just saying.....He's the best there is, was and ever will be, period. He wins. He will continue to win till he quits. He'll quit before he's washed up. He won't be like Fred Couples and continue playing when he no longer believes he can win. I'm not saying Freddy is washed up, be he said that winning is not a realistic goal for him at this point in his career.

 

Anyhow, my point is.....iteach, I agree with you. Tiger's swing looks like a soup sandwich.......Seriously, do you think you are better qualified to coach Tiger than Hank Haney? You said you predict a coaching change, are you sending Tiger your resume?

[AFcelica]

too many posts to quote for all i want to adress but just a few thoughts. and i'm not a teacher so please correct me if i'm wrong but for the guy who said not everyone believes in the passive hands technique. thats very true but doesn't haney believe in/teach it? and hasn't tiger been talking about trying to take the timing out of his swing for years now since switching to haney? i thought so but like i said im not 100% sure but would love for someone to confirm/deny

 

also for those of you saying well tiger won so iteach obviously has no idea what he's talking about.... didn't tiger ADMIT that when he won augusta in 97 that he was something along the lines of accross the line at the top, too shallow coming down and was having to flip it to avoid going 2 fairways right? and he won at an unheard of 18 under? yeah he's that good! especially when his timing is on. when its not he hits shots like at 11 and that sw way left into the bunker where the trained eye can tell that he's all timing and for a golfer who im pretty sure is trying to avoid timing that's cause for concern. whats not to understand? i mean i love tiger but come on the man isn't flawless and when his timing isn't so perfect the whats wrong with tiger threads will pop back up again, just watch.

 

one last point did anyone notice tiger hit a cut and took a club more on seemingly every shot into the green? perhaps trying to avoid flipping it left?