I can't believe some of this stuff

[iteachgolf]

Article on how to draw the ball, must read

 

 

So I was browsing the interweb and came across this video and laughed and the shameless title to attract business to his website full of crap and useless tips. I then go to the website this guy owns (listed in info) and found this gem of an article (above). Which was relayed from an a video titled stack and tilt which to say the least would be in total disagreement.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPKr6UrGsAM

[TaylorMadeAP25]

Errrr level shoulder turn?????.....errrrrrr Horizontal plane????

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='TaylorMadeAP25' post='1934598' date='Sep 4 2009, 11:11 PM']Errrr level shoulder turn?????.....errrrrrr Horizontal plane????[/quote]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN78XHveXws"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN78XHveXws[/url]
I think this is what Nick was working on

[ram01002]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1934592' date='Sep 4 2009, 09:05 PM']I will also add can anyone seeing this guy swing believe how he can make a living selling instructional tips online?[/quote]

Can't use that argument . . . . you ever seen Haney drive the golf ball?

[TaylorMadeAP25]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1934603' date='Sep 4 2009, 10:16 PM'][quote name='TaylorMadeAP25' post='1934598' date='Sep 4 2009, 11:11 PM']Errrr level shoulder turn?????.....errrrrrr Horizontal plane????[/quote]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN78XHveXws"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN78XHveXws[/url]
I think this is what Nick was working on
[/quote]


I hear that swing is bad for your irons....and gives you neck problems. Its a Fad swing

[Callaway Ken]

Can somebody define the golf term "BANG" for me? I'm a little sketchy on that one. I assume it's in the same category as "POW" and "BAM', but I want to be sure.

[jaridyard]

[quote name='TaylorMadeAP25' post='1934598' date='Sep 5 2009, 04:11 AM']Errrr level shoulder turn?????.....errrrrrr Horizontal plane????[/quote]

No look.... you can definitely swing with a horizontal plane..

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVorNBN7754"]Level Shoulder Turn[/url]

Have to reel that one out on special occasions.

[clearwater]

Sounds like S&T info to me

[mikpga]

Focus on your strengths as an instructor/coach...

[MtlJeff]

not every instructor on the web is bad, i was browsing the web one day and found this guy who invented a zolex based driver, that increased clubhead speed magically due to the aerodynamic design and smart knife like shaft. It's helped me add 50 (yes 50!) yards to my drives

[ktbfsu]

yes focus on your own strengths......scouring the web for the purpose of trashing other pros as you simultaneously work to expand your professional horizons beyond golftec pro.....well, let's just say you can probably find a more productive use of your time.

as for mr. golden, his son is a very good player. he starred for rollins college......he qualified for the us open.....he's won the orlando city am a couple of times. he has a phenomenal swing. mr golden was at least able to teach him something.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='ktbfsu' post='1935701' date='Sep 5 2009, 09:09 PM']yes focus on your own strengths......scouring the web for the purpose of trashing other pros as you simultaneously work to expand your professional horizons beyond golftec pro.....well, let's just say you can probably find a more productive use of your time.

as for mr. golden, his son is a very good player. he starred for rollins college......he qualified for the us open.....he's won the orlando city am a couple of times. he has a phenomenal swing. mr golden was at least able to teach him something.[/quote]

One Mr. Golden didn't write that article. I didn't scour the internet for it. It came up on my youtube page as stack and tilt so I watched it. I'm not here to trash other pros. I wouldn't consider a person who tells someone they need to have a level shoulder turn knowledgable enough to charge for lessons, sorry. I am here to help people get CORRECT information. I believe bringing to light BAD information will help clear up misconceptions.

[mfm22]

That article on hitting a draw .....first sentence "quick and easy way...."
Thats 90% of what golfers want ....and not just golfers our society in general... They want it easy and they want it now.
So it's no wonder there are quacks in weight control,medicine,religion why should golf be different ?

Who wants to work for a good golf game and a sound swing.....very few!
Thats why so few single digit handicaps ,never mind scratch.

Hogan -found it in the dirt....worked his butt off for years....every pro on any tour puts in how many hours every day and still needs to work at it . And they have swing coach's !

[iteachgolf]

I just guess I expect more. I believe you should be teaching golf because you are passionate and love it and not just to make money. Teaching is what I love to do and I really enjoy helping people. It's like the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath"]hippocratic oath[/url]. I think a lot of that is transferable to the golf industry and I believe things like this are solely to make money off of desperate golfers and does more harm then good. Even if I disagree with the info some teachers use if the motives are correct and their students improve it's all good as that is our goal as instructors.

[ram01002]

You're in the wrong on this one iteach . . . his ideas may not agree with yours, but some feel as though s&t is the same type of garbage. Personally, I was interested in the Palmer follow-through example because it explained his signature finish. I would rather watch two minutes of that than some cryptic video on accumulator lag centripugal homer tgm stuff (just m.o.).

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='ram01002' post='1935815' date='Sep 5 2009, 10:43 PM']You're in the wrong on this one iteach . . . his ideas may not agree with yours, but some feel as though s&t is the same type of garbage. Personally, I was interested in the Palmer follow-through example because it explained his signature finish. I would rather watch two minutes of that than some cryptic video on accumulator lag centripugal homer tgm stuff (just m.o.).[/quote]
I didn't think the video was bad, or garbage as you called it. If that is Jay Golden who teaches here in Orlando than it isn't even the same person that wrote the article. I am disagreeing with the ARTICLE not the video. The video is right on par with S&T actually as S&T uses a no roll feeling release. Palmer actually did almost everything similar to S&T. My problem with the video is the TITLE of it and its use to sell a product that is in direct opposite viewpoint of S&T (link in info part). If it is in fact Mr. Golden in this video I'm sure he would not like his video used to sell someone elses product which I assume would be without his permission.

[ram01002]

gotcha - - - i guess that means we aren't heading for fisticuffs tonight

i thought the video was quite good . . . i also think s&t has some good elements . . . maybe baddeley needed to watch that video when he using using the s&t pattern

[iteachgolf]

gotcha - - - i guess that means we aren't heading for fisticuffs tonight :)

 

i thought the video was quite good . . . i also think s&t has some good elements . . . maybe baddeley needed to watch that video when he using using the s&t pattern

 

Nope. Did you read the article?

 

Basically advocating a shoulder turn this flat.

[ram01002]

yeah, that is really unorthodox

i have also heard about some new swing method where a golfer keeps his weight on his front side throughout the swing, and tilts his hips away from the target at impact . . . stack and something . . . some have called it really unorthodox.

its all in perspective iteach . . . you can't have it both ways. you don't agree with the article, and you throw the author under the bus. a lot of top 100 teachers disagree with [i]your[/i] methods just as passionately.

[Tiltswing]

[quote name='ram01002' post='1935863' date='Sep 5 2009, 11:19 PM']yeah, that is really unorthodox

i have also heard about some new swing method where a golfer keeps his weight on his front side throughout the swing, and tilts his hips away from the target at impact . . . stack and something . . . some have called it really unorthodox.

its all in perspective iteach . . . you can't have it both ways. you don't agree with the article, and you throw the author under the bus. a lot of top 100 teachers disagree with [i]your[/i] methods just as passionately.[/quote]


LOL. Show me a good ball-striker that swings with that flat of a shoulder and arm plane. S&T does not advocate "tilting the hips away from the target at impact." They advocate the exact opposite, ironically enough.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='ram01002' post='1935863' date='Sep 5 2009, 11:19 PM']yeah, that is really unorthodox

i have also heard about some new swing method where a golfer keeps his weight on his front side throughout the swing, and tilts his hips away from the target at impact . . . stack and something . . . some have called it really unorthodox.

its all in perspective iteach . . . you can't have it both ways. you don't agree with the article, and you throw the author under the bus. a lot of top 100 teachers disagree with [i]your[/i] methods just as passionately.[/quote]
But no Top 100 teacher would recommend that and NOT A SINGLE PLAYER ON ANY MAJOR TOUR swings that way. I teach more than S&T and am far from a method teacher. I jsut happen to think S&T is a VERY good pattern and the one I choose to use myself.

[ram01002]

[quote name='Tiltswing' post='1935869' date='Sep 5 2009, 09:24 PM'][quote name='ram01002' post='1935863' date='Sep 5 2009, 11:19 PM']yeah, that is really unorthodox

i have also heard about some new swing method where a golfer keeps his weight on his front side throughout the swing, and tilts his hips away from the target at impact . . . stack and something . . . some have called it really unorthodox.

its all in perspective iteach . . . you can't have it both ways. you don't agree with the article, and you throw the author under the bus. a lot of top 100 teachers disagree with [i]your[/i] methods just as passionately.[/quote]


LOL. Show me a good ball-striker that swings with that flat of a shoulder and arm plane. S&T does not advocate "tilting the hips away from the target at impact." They advocate the exact opposite, ironically enough.
[/quote]

you see, i don't know enough about s&t to make an accurate comment so I keep my mouth shut . . . iteach may want to do the same.

[xiaoxiong]

gotcha - - - i guess that means we aren't heading for fisticuffs tonight :)

 

i thought the video was quite good . . . i also think s&t has some good elements . . . maybe baddeley needed to watch that video when he using using the s&t pattern

 

Nope. Did you read the article?

 

Basically advocating a shoulder turn this flat.

 

seriously he may just try to promote a feel for someone with too steep shoulder turn. Brian Manzella has one drill similar to that.

 

different cup of tea for different folks...

 

you can not simply trash it ....

 

cheers,

[ram01002]

gotcha - - - i guess that means we aren't heading for fisticuffs tonight :)

 

i thought the video was quite good . . . i also think s&t has some good elements . . . maybe baddeley needed to watch that video when he using using the s&t pattern

 

Nope. Did you read the article?

 

Basically advocating a shoulder turn this flat.

 

seriously he may just try to promote a feel for someone with too steep shoulder turn. Brian Manzella has one drill similar to that.

 

different cup of tea for different folks...

 

you can not simply trash it ....

 

cheers,

 

thats my point . . . you're speculating iteach, which is fine . . . but it can get you in some sticky situations

[ktbfsu]

that is definitely mr. golden in the video.

[iteachgolf]

gotcha - - - i guess that means we aren't heading for fisticuffs tonight :)

 

i thought the video was quite good . . . i also think s&t has some good elements . . . maybe baddeley needed to watch that video when he using using the s&t pattern

 

Nope. Did you read the article?

 

Basically advocating a shoulder turn this flat.

 

seriously he may just try to promote a feel for someone with too steep shoulder turn. Brian Manzella has one drill similar to that.

 

different cup of tea for different folks...

 

you can not simply trash it ....

 

cheers,

He said the shoulders should turn as level as possible and level to the ground. I am not speculating as that is EXACTLY what he wrote.

 

The big problem is that a flatter shoulder turn creates more of a lift of the arms and more of a tendency to slice. It is easiest to make a flat and shallow arm swing with a steep shoulder turn. When your hands work in and around your body your left shoulder will naturally go down. If it is a feel then it should be stated as such., it is worded like that is exactly what you are trying to accomplish. A flat back shoulder turn, which still isn't level to ground, is more compatible with more upright plane angles

 

see below

 

 

and to ktbfsu I have no issues with Golden and know his players get better so I'm a fan not knowing or caring what he teaches. Results are what matters. :friends:

[Callaway Ken]

[quote name='ram01002' post='1935863' date='Sep 5 2009, 11:19 PM']i have also heard about some new swing method where a golfer keeps his weight on his front side throughout the swing, and tilts his hips away from the target at impact . . . stack and something . . . some have called it really unorthodox. [/quote]

Isn’t keeping the weight on the front side throughout the swing, a mainstay of S&T?

[quote name='ram01002' post='1935874' date='Sep 5 2009, 11:26 PM']you see, i don't know enough about s&t to make an accurate comment so I keep my mouth shut . . .[/quote]

Me neither. Perhaps I should take a closer look at it. What have I got to loose? The DVDs are the same price as a set of ShamWows.

[downtoscratch]

Jay Golden not Jeff.............

[Siteseer2]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1935717' date='Sep 5 2009, 09:20 PM'][quote name='ktbfsu' post='1935701' date='Sep 5 2009, 09:09 PM']yes focus on your own strengths......scouring the web for the purpose of trashing other pros as you simultaneously work to expand your professional horizons beyond golftec pro.....well, let's just say you can probably find a more productive use of your time.

as for mr. golden, his son is a very good player. he starred for rollins college......he qualified for the us open.....he's won the orlando city am a couple of times. he has a phenomenal swing. mr golden was at least able to teach him something.[/quote]

One Mr. Golden didn't write that article. I didn't scour the internet for it. It came up on my youtube page as stack and tilt so I watched it. I'm not here to trash other pros. I wouldn't consider a person who tells someone they need to have a level shoulder turn knowledgable enough to charge for lessons, sorry. I am here to help people get CORRECT information. I believe bringing to light BAD information will help clear up misconceptions.
[/quote]
Teach... Swings that are two-plane have horizontal shoulder turns... the arms swing up and down, in a karate chop fashion, as the core turns in time with this action... think Watson... Monty...

These swings tend to be too narrow and too steep... hence anything that adds [b]width[/b] will improve impact... level shoulder turn would be one component... big hip slide would be another.... shoulders would be held back as long as possible, as hips slide forward, cross-over release in most cases... just another pattern... on the far side of the earth from S&T...

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Siteseer2' post='1936127' date='Sep 6 2009, 09:26 AM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='1935717' date='Sep 5 2009, 09:20 PM'][quote name='ktbfsu' post='1935701' date='Sep 5 2009, 09:09 PM']yes focus on your own strengths......scouring the web for the purpose of trashing other pros as you simultaneously work to expand your professional horizons beyond golftec pro.....well, let's just say you can probably find a more productive use of your time.

as for mr. golden, his son is a very good player. he starred for rollins college......he qualified for the us open.....he's won the orlando city am a couple of times. he has a phenomenal swing. mr golden was at least able to teach him something.[/quote]

One Mr. Golden didn't write that article. I didn't scour the internet for it. It came up on my youtube page as stack and tilt so I watched it. I'm not here to trash other pros. I wouldn't consider a person who tells someone they need to have a level shoulder turn knowledgable enough to charge for lessons, sorry. I am here to help people get CORRECT information. I believe bringing to light BAD information will help clear up misconceptions.
[/quote]
Teach... Swings that are two-plane have horizontal shoulder turns... the arms swing up and down, in a karate chop fashion, as the core turns in time with this action... think Watson... Monty...

These swings tend to be too narrow and too steep... hence anything that adds [b]width[/b] will improve impact... level shoulder turn would be one component... big hip slide would be another.... shoulders would be held back as long as possible, as hips slide forward, cross-over release in most cases... just another pattern... on the far side of the earth from S&T...
[/quote]
Yea that is what I said above. Flatter turns are more compatible with upright planes and not how I would choose or teach anyone to draw the ball. Fade sure, draw not so much.