Mickelson Project X

[MitchCumstein]

Is he using the chrome or satin version?

Phil objected to the chrome version originally, wondering if he's still using satin version in his irons and wedges.........

[rymail00]

[quote name='MitchCumstein' post='1978564' date='Sep 29 2009, 04:33 PM']Phil objected to the chrome version originally, wondering if he's still using satin version in his irons and wedges.........[/quote]


I think he uses the satin version. I have no proof, they just looked satin this weekend on tv.

[Fyrrwin]

I believe he is using the chrome version. I seem to remember he switched to KBS for a while after TT bought out Rifle, because he was of the belief that the chrome PX's weren't to the same specs as the satin PX's he had played, but he went back to PX after TT proved to him that the specs were indeed the same as the satin's.

[sandy]

TT can supply all the data they want but to me the satins feel better than the shiny chrome. I've had 3 sets of the shiny chromes and 5 sets of the satins. Two of the sets are the same irons and the satins feel better.. I would never get rid of the satins. Plus none of the B.S. that TT put out has come true regarding the variation in finish (all remain exactly the same visually) and not one has "rusted" as they initially said as well... A small aside is the satins look better as well... So they can test exactly the same but they don't play exactly the same for me.

[Jimmie48]

Anyone know what flex he uses? Out of curiosity...

[Fyrrwin]

[quote name='Jimmie48' post='1978697' date='Sep 29 2009, 02:47 PM']Anyone know what flex he uses? Out of curiosity...[/quote]

According to the WITB from his Tour Championship win they are 7.0's. No clue if that is what they actually play to, since quite often with tour equipment what you see isn't what you really get. I seem to remember hearing that Sergio's say 6.5 on the shaft band, but actually frequency out to 7.3.

[jdhonger]

He still uses the satin ones. Paul Casey is the same way, he demands the satin versions as well.

[Fyrrwin]

 

I stand corrected, they do indeed appear to be more satin than chrome in this picture.

[opus_mh]

my chrome Px shafts pitted out long before my satins and i too dont like the new version. Bring back the satin PX's......sorry kinda off topic.

Cheers
Scott

[Big Ben]

I think the satins are superior; so does my club builder who indicates that my sets are much tighter in tolerance and a hair stiffer than the chrome version he builds with regularly in the same spec. I've accumulated extra sets for any new irons I might find myself goofing around with...BB

[Pepperturbo]

PM has chrome - as do most other Pros that enjoy PX shafts today. And, club builders that make uninformed statements about the merits of shaft based on it's finish really show their lack of shaft knowledge, no less just to sell the product.

[mp29]

I took a look at the Getty Images from the last couple tournaments and they are definitely the Satin PX. Anyone who says there's no difference between chrome and satin is wrong IMHO. I've played both and satin clearly launches higher with a ton less spin than the chrome. The chrome are basically standard rifles, not project x I believe. There are a number of tour players that play the chrome but look at all those who still play satin - Mickelson, Casey, Stricker etc...

[liveagua]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1978880' date='Sep 29 2009, 06:24 PM']PM has chrome - as do most other Pros that enjoy PX shafts today. And, club builders that make uninformed statements about the merits of shaft based on it's finish really show their lack of shaft knowledge, no less just to sell the product.[/quote]


Thanks for the heads up on my lack of knowledge. I have Pure'd 100's if not 1000's of shafts and I can tell you this, the Satins PURE a lot easier than the chromes...not even close. I have also hit 2 sets of the same irons, same loft/lie/swingweight/frequency with Satins and Chromes. We did a blind test by using those cheesy "shaft wraps" and we tested all the clubs and we did it 3 different times. I journaled about my experiences with them over the 6 total rounds...when we peeled off the "shaft wraps" we found out my preference.

Notice my signature...it wasn't even close from a playability standpoint. On top of that, Satin is a lot prettier.

[Mack]

I also see and feel a difference in Satin vs. Chrome, with Satin winning in all categories.

My Flighted Chrome 6.5's come out between 7.0 and 7.2

For anyone who can't find Satin shafts and has to order Chrome ones.....Order the PX Flighted ones. They are much closer to the original Satin version we all love and miss.

Mack

[spooky]

They look satin to me and the satin I have played felt completely different and much better to me than a set of chrome in apparently the same flex. I am always surprised when people say that the satin and chrome are identical.

[floyd]

[quote name='spooky' post='1979616' date='Sep 30 2009, 06:08 AM']They look satin to me and the satin I have played felt completely different and much better to me than a set of chrome in apparently the same flex. I am always surprised when people say that the satin and chrome are identical.[/quote]

I agree, I have several sets with the chrome and satin and the satin feels better, has a tighter tolerance and just overall better than the chrome.

[whatshannenin]

KB himself will tell you there is a difference between his PX and TT's PX. But this thread could get 10 pages deep in a hurry starting that debate. I believe to the OP that Mickelson is playing his own profile of PX that KB originally designed for him and I want to say that are like 7.3 Freq. I know a couple people on the boards have some of these Mickelson Proto PX Shafts in Satin.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='liveagua' post='1978988' date='Sep 29 2009, 05:19 PM'][quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1978880' date='Sep 29 2009, 06:24 PM']PM has chrome - as do most other Pros that enjoy PX shafts today. And, club builders that make uninformed statements about the merits of shaft based on it's finish really show their lack of shaft knowledge, no less just to sell the product.[/quote]


Thanks for the heads up on my lack of knowledge. I have Pure'd 100's if not 1000's of shafts and I can tell you this, the Satins PURE a lot easier than the chromes...not even close. I have also hit 2 sets of the same irons, same loft/lie/swingweight/frequency with Satins and Chromes. We did a blind test by using those cheesy "shaft wraps" and we tested all the clubs and we did it 3 different times. I journaled about my experiences with them over the 6 total rounds...when we peeled off the "shaft wraps" we found out my preference.

Notice my signature...it wasn't even close from a playability standpoint. On top of that, Satin is a lot prettier.
[/quote]

Arguing this point is like arguing forged over cast... I've owned and played both as well; better yet talked to people at Callaway, and Rifle product mgrs before sold to TT. Regardless of what some people want to believe they can sense during play, I trust what I heard from the horses vs. what's touted on the internet.

Next someone will be claiming they saved a stroke due to the satin" finish". Again, "satin" is just a finish; much like all the different finishes "Scratch" applies to their club heads; but believe what you will.

[dcrsx]

[quote name='whatshannenin' post='1979727' date='Sep 30 2009, 06:13 AM']KB himself will tell you there is a difference between his PX and TT's PX. But this thread could get 10 pages deep in a hurry starting that debate. I believe to the OP that Mickelson is playing his own profile of PX that KB originally designed for him and I want to say that are like 7.3 Freq. I know a couple people on the boards have some of these Mickelson Proto PX Shafts in Satin.[/quote]


You don't think KB has any motivation to bad mouth PX? He is a direct competitor and he was terminated by RP before the TT ever got involved w/ the company. Not alot of friendly blood there.

[spooky]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1979855' date='Sep 30 2009, 03:40 PM']Arguing this point is like arguing forged over cast... I've owned and played both as well; better yet talked to people at Callaway, and Rifle product mgrs before sold to TT. Regardless of what some people want to believe they can sense during play, I trust what I heard from the horses vs. what's touted on the internet.

Next someone will be claiming they saved a stroke due to the satin" finish". Again, "satin" is just a finish; much like all the different finishes "Scratch" applies to their club heads; but believe what you will.[/quote]

Different manufacturers though. If a shaft felt softer to you and the TT rep said it was actually firmer would you change your opinion? Doubtful. Seriously though, are you saying that you have used the same flex in both the satin and the TT Project X shafts in the same head, swingweight, etc, and that you felt no difference? I am not looking to start an argument with you but I am curious, as I have done this and felt a difference, and it appears that many others have experienced the same thing.

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='dcrsx' post='1979890' date='Sep 30 2009, 09:57 AM'][quote name='whatshannenin' post='1979727' date='Sep 30 2009, 06:13 AM']KB himself will tell you there is a difference between his PX and TT's PX. But this thread could get 10 pages deep in a hurry starting that debate. I believe to the OP that Mickelson is playing his own profile of PX that KB originally designed for him and I want to say that are like 7.3 Freq. I know a couple people on the boards have some of these Mickelson Proto PX Shafts in Satin.[/quote]


You don't think KB has any motivation to bad mouth PX? He is a direct competitor and he was terminated by RP before the TT ever got involved w/ the company. Not alot of friendly blood there.
[/quote]

He's not bad mouthing the shaft, he is simply saying that they are not the same shaft they were before the buy out. Now I know TrueTemper will come on here and say blablalblblah about how it's the same. But them telling me that they are the same is about as believable as Nike saying the Retail Victory Red's are the same as Tiger's irons, or TM saying the TP line is the same stuff the pro's use. Honestly it's pretty insulting when companies are blatantly lying to consumers, when there is clearly proof out there on sites just like this one.

Now back to topic. Does anyone on here have those Satin Mickelson Proto's? I'm sure I've seen them on here somewhere.

[Pepperturbo]

Spooky ... No worries I am not arguing either just stating my understanding. I have the old satin standard PX 6.0 shafts in a set of MacGregor custom grind blades. Also I have chrome standard 6.0 PX in other comparable MacGregor blade heads, AND in my Mizuno Pro 1 iron.

None of us are the same when it comes to our five senses and their level of development. I explicitly trust my sense of touch and taste because I've used both so much in other critical areas throughout my life.

Bring that around to golf I notice the difference between forged and cast head at impact, different balls, and can do that with my ears plugged using impact vibrations and touch sensors in my hands. I can also tell the difference between my original Snake Eye 1020 forged wedges, Callaway's X-forged wedges, and my current Scratch 1018's using the same ball. Why, because not only do finishes vary, the depth of the finish varies which effects how the ball feels when it sets on the face at impact. The softer the feel which is tied to depth of finish, the longer the ball sets on the face. Of the 3 wedges above my SEyes are still the softest because the chrome finish is so thin; also reason many touring pros don't like any finish on their wedges.

I've also noticed the feel difference between blindly hitting an "r", "s" and "x" DG's. I didn't know exactly what I was feeling just there was a difference. To verify I had the shafts pulled and measured. Come to find out TT/DG sorting tolerances were way off. In three different sets of shafts, weights varied dramatically in different irons, which is main reason I switched to Standard 6.5 Rifles in the first place.

I pay NO attention to what's typically said online because it’s to often conjecture in some fashion. I will however pay close attention to the Rifle product manager I spoke with because he actually knew about the shafts and had nothing to gain. I also learned of the broader influences that were tied to switching to chrome. Satin finish was costly... As I recall Callaway was the first to sign on for volume PX deal back when; that was concurrent with Rifle evaluating their cost structure and the differences between satin and chrome. I was told in no uncertain terms there was no "actual" difference except chrome was less costly and easier to produce. That also made it easier to ramp up to meet the Callaway's volume, and subsequently other OEM requests for PX contracts so they quit making satin; which was before TT take over.

At that juncture distributors then had to sell from inventory. To this day some distributors still have the satin shafts in stock. Not long ago I learned that first hand when I ordered the PX 6.0 for my 1 iron, but didn't stipulate finish. I got satin but sent it back for chrome. All depends on what distributor is approached.

When it comes to reps, I seldom pay attention to what they say because they are salesmen, and the same is true for club builders. No offense meant towards club builders but they often sell a reputation whether realized or not.

If you're noticing something it might be off tolerances that are more likely batch oriented, not overall manufacturing differences. Nevertheless, if you and others feel there's difference, fine. Have a good one.

[dcrsx]

[quote name='whatshannenin' post='1980119' date='Sep 30 2009, 10:10 AM'][quote name='dcrsx' post='1979890' date='Sep 30 2009, 09:57 AM'][quote name='whatshannenin' post='1979727' date='Sep 30 2009, 06:13 AM']KB himself will tell you there is a difference between his PX and TT's PX. But this thread could get 10 pages deep in a hurry starting that debate. I believe to the OP that Mickelson is playing his own profile of PX that KB originally designed for him and I want to say that are like 7.3 Freq. I know a couple people on the boards have some of these Mickelson Proto PX Shafts in Satin.[/quote]


You don't think KB has any motivation to bad mouth PX? He is a direct competitor and he was terminated by RP before the TT ever got involved w/ the company. Not alot of friendly blood there.
[/quote]

He's not bad mouthing the shaft, he is simply saying that they are not the same shaft they were before the buy out. Now I know TrueTemper will come on here and say blablalblblah about how it's the same. But them telling me that they are the same is about as believable as Nike saying the Retail Victory Red's are the same as Tiger's irons, or TM saying the TP line is the same stuff the pro's use. Honestly it's pretty insulting when companies are blatantly lying to consumers, when there is clearly proof out there on sites just like this one.

Now back to topic. Does anyone on here have those Satin Mickelson Proto's? I'm sure I've seen them on here somewhere.
[/quote]


But he has all the interest in the world in telling people who used "his PX" that TT's are different becasue he wants to move them to KB.

And what proof do you speak of? Subjective feel feedback? The word of a fired employee? Chrome vs Satin in differnet heads with different SW? I've never seen any real proof. I have had former RP employees tell me that the equipment was all moved from CT to TTS' steel facility. I have done OD comparisons and found the profile's of satin vs chrome to be the same.

[liveagua]

[quote name='dcrsx' post='1980269' date='Sep 30 2009, 01:33 PM'][quote name='whatshannenin' post='1980119' date='Sep 30 2009, 10:10 AM'][quote name='dcrsx' post='1979890' date='Sep 30 2009, 09:57 AM'][quote name='whatshannenin' post='1979727' date='Sep 30 2009, 06:13 AM']KB himself will tell you there is a difference between his PX and TT's PX. But this thread could get 10 pages deep in a hurry starting that debate. I believe to the OP that Mickelson is playing his own profile of PX that KB originally designed for him and I want to say that are like 7.3 Freq. I know a couple people on the boards have some of these Mickelson Proto PX Shafts in Satin.[/quote]


You don't think KB has any motivation to bad mouth PX? He is a direct competitor and he was terminated by RP before the TT ever got involved w/ the company. Not alot of friendly blood there.
[/quote]

He's not bad mouthing the shaft, he is simply saying that they are not the same shaft they were before the buy out. Now I know TrueTemper will come on here and say blablalblblah about how it's the same. But them telling me that they are the same is about as believable as Nike saying the Retail Victory Red's are the same as Tiger's irons, or TM saying the TP line is the same stuff the pro's use. Honestly it's pretty insulting when companies are blatantly lying to consumers, when there is clearly proof out there on sites just like this one.

Now back to topic. Does anyone on here have those Satin Mickelson Proto's? I'm sure I've seen them on here somewhere.
[/quote]


But he has all the interest in the world in telling people who used "his PX" that TT's are different becasue he wants to move them to KB.

And what proof do you speak of? Subjective feel feedback? The word of a fired employee? Chrome vs Satin in differnet heads with different SW? I've never seen any real proof. I have had former RP employees tell me that the equipment was all moved from CT to TTS' steel facility. I have done OD comparisons and found the profile's of satin vs chrome to be the same.
[/quote]


It's the overall quality control at TT...or lack thereof. Once they had a monopoly, things changed for the worse.

[Towelieeee]

I could never hit the chrome PX in anything very well and just decided I was not a fan at all. Then my buddy lent me a set of MP 14's with satin PX and I absolutely loved them. He practically had to steal them out of my bag I liked them so much. Maybe my swing had changed some way, but I believe that the satins are superior to the chrome.

[Big Ben]

I'm a feel player and have both satin and chrome in different sets and they are different; no question the quality control is different as well; just my opinion after playing both for many years (as well as my tech who is the BOMB!)...BB

[LSeca]

I guess I am in the minority here as I can not feel any diff between the two.

[HoosierGolfer]

Never a shortage of something to debate.

[Towelieeee]

[quote]Never a shortage of something to debate.[/quote]

True story