Rotary swing question

AcesAZ · October 4, 2009

Active or passive release? I seem to be able to play with both! Some days I need to consiously release the club with my hands to get the ball around and others I can just focus on staying passive with the arms and letting centrifical force release it. The active release I hit it a bit further but not quite as accurate as the days with the passive release. Anyone know why I would need to actively release it? Grip pressure too tight maybe? The driver is generally where I need to focus more on an active release, I maybe dont have as sound of a pivot as I need? I like the extra yardage with the active release though. Maybe 10 yard difference with driver. All told I probably hit the ball better with an active release with the driver and passive with the irons. Maybe I should use both?

AcesAZ · October 4, 2009

Is this a stupid question?

ryanandrew_golf · October 4, 2009

[quote name='AcesAZ' post='1987723' date='Oct 4 2009, 09:01 PM']Is this a stupid question?[/quote]

No! I, personally, just don't know the answer...

dap · October 5, 2009

[quote name='AcesAZ' post='1987617' date='Oct 5 2009, 12:08 PM']Active or passive release? I seem to be able to play with both! Some days I need to consiously release the club with my hands to get the ball around and others I can just focus on staying passive with the arms and letting centrifical force release it. The active release I hit it a bit further but not quite as accurate as the days with the passive release. Anyone know why I would need to actively release it? Grip pressure too tight maybe? The driver is generally where I need to focus more on an active release, I maybe dont have as sound of a pivot as I need? I like the extra yardage with the active release though. Maybe 10 yard difference with driver. All told I probably hit the ball better with an active release with the driver and passive with the irons. Maybe I should use both?[/quote]
Unless you post videos we can only guess whats going on.

It sounds like your hand release method results in a flippy type swing.This can work with shots teed up because you don't have to hit down on it so that maybe explains why you hit the driver well but not the irons.

AcesAZ · October 5, 2009

[quote name='dap' post='1987902' date='Oct 4 2009, 11:03 PM'][quote name='AcesAZ' post='1987617' date='Oct 5 2009, 12:08 PM']Active or passive release? I seem to be able to play with both! Some days I need to consiously release the club with my hands to get the ball around and others I can just focus on staying passive with the arms and letting centrifical force release it. The active release I hit it a bit further but not quite as accurate as the days with the passive release. Anyone know why I would need to actively release it? Grip pressure too tight maybe? The driver is generally where I need to focus more on an active release, I maybe dont have as sound of a pivot as I need? I like the extra yardage with the active release though. Maybe 10 yard difference with driver. All told I probably hit the ball better with an active release with the driver and passive with the irons. Maybe I should use both?[/quote]
Unless you post videos we can only guess whats going on.

It sounds like your hand release method results in a flippy type swing.This can work with shots teed up because you don't have to hit down on it so that maybe explains why you hit the driver well but not the irons.
[/quote]

I dont have anything close to current. I have a slap release, not crossover or flip. I really think the problem just comes down to too tight grip pressure which I get a hang on type of move with the driver leaving the face open. If I focus on releasing it or letting it release then obviously I wont hang on. I know my grip pressure is too tight, something I struggle with.

happyroman · October 5, 2009

Trying to actively or consciously release the hands at impact is ultimately asking for trouble. The clubhead is travelling so fast that if the timing is off by a fraction of a second, the clubhead will only be square at impact by sheer luck. It only takes thye clubface to be a few degrees open or closed to launch the ball into the adjoining fairway, or worse.

Ben Hogan discusses this in Five Lessons where he says that one should not do anything consciously with the arms and the hands only keep a firm grip on the club. This is in order to keep from disrupting what he calls the chain action of the swing.

Chuck Quention, in his book, Rotary Golf, also says one should swing the club by turning the body and keeping the arms passive.

It all has to do with conservation of angular momentum. When the arms and club are close to the body, at the top of the backswing, they will move at approximately the same speed as the center of the body mass. As the arms extend and move away from the body, they actually slow down and transfer momentum to the lighter segment of the chain, the shaft and clubhead, which are still relatively close to the body. The clubhead will then accelerate until fully released, just after impact, when both arms are fully extended.

This phenominon is what generates the feeling described as effortless power. When you actively or consciously try to release the clubhead, (or for that matter, hold it back in an "effort" to maintain lag). you disrupt the chain of events and reduce clubhead speed.

AcesAZ · October 5, 2009

[quote name='happyroman' post='1988191' date='Oct 5 2009, 08:41 AM']Trying to actively or consciously release the hands at impact is ultimately asking for trouble. The clubhead is travelling so fast that if the timing is off by a fraction of a second, the clubhead will only be square at impact by sheer luck. It only takes thye clubface to be a few degrees open or closed to launch the ball into the adjoining fairway, or worse.

Ben Hogan discusses this in Five Lessons where he says that one should not do anything consciously with the arms and the hands only keep a firm grip on the club. This is in order to keep from disrupting what he calls the chain action of the swing.

Chuck Quention, in his book, Rotary Golf, also says one should swing the club by turning the body and keeping the arms passive.

It all has to do with conservation of angular momentum. When the arms and club are close to the body, at the top of the backswing, they will move at approximately the same speed as the center of the body mass. As the arms extend and move away from the body, they actually slow down and transfer momentum to the lighter segment of the chain, the shaft and clubhead, which are still relatively close to the body. The clubhead will then accelerate until fully released, just after impact, when both arms are fully extended.

This phenominon is what generates the feeling described as effortless power. When you actively or consciously try to release the clubhead, (or for that matter, hold it back in an "effort" to maintain lag). you disrupt the chain of events and reduce clubhead speed.[/quote]

Agreed with everything which is why can I hit the ball better some day with an active release? It shouldnt be that way. The thing I do when I try and conciously release it is something I read that Sergio practices a couple years back, he says he want to feel the clubhead chasing the ball torwards the target. Maybe this forces more of a crossover release though?

JD3 · October 10, 2009

[quote name='happyroman' post='1988191' date='Oct 5 2009, 09:41 AM']Trying to actively or consciously release the hands at impact is ultimately asking for trouble. The clubhead is travelling so fast that if the timing is off by a fraction of a second, the clubhead will only be square at impact by sheer luck. It only takes thye clubface to be a few degrees open or closed to launch the ball into the adjoining fairway, or worse.

Ben Hogan discusses this in Five Lessons where he says that one should not do anything consciously with the arms and the hands only keep a firm grip on the club. This is in order to keep from disrupting what he calls the chain action of the swing.

Chuck Quention, in his book, Rotary Golf, also says one should swing the club by turning the body and keeping the arms passive.

It all has to do with conservation of angular momentum. When the arms and club are close to the body, at the top of the backswing, they will move at approximately the same speed as the center of the body mass. As the arms extend and move away from the body, they actually slow down and transfer momentum to the lighter segment of the chain, the shaft and clubhead, which are still relatively close to the body. The clubhead will then accelerate until fully released, just after impact, when both arms are fully extended.

This phenominon is what generates the feeling described as effortless power. When you actively or consciously try to release the clubhead, (or for that matter, hold it back in an "effort" to maintain lag). you disrupt the chain of events and reduce clubhead speed.[/quote]
in the stack and tilt DVDs they use an analogy of field goal kickers to demonstrate the power of angular momentum. how they used to kick a lot more inline and then some soccer players came over from Europe kicking it further, and now they all kick that way. but they never really explain the physics behind it. i can see how an inside path gets the hands/arms closer to the body in your post and how that can lead to faster turning core, but does that hold true for the inline vs soccer style kicker? also, the phrase "angular momentum" would seem to imply a more univeral value in approacing on angle vs inline, above and beyond the core proximity advantage. also, in golf, assume someones really flexible at the waist/hamstrings, and then can bend over almost 90 degrees and swing. in that case their arms can be close to their body/shoulder plane however the club would approach very inline.