Awesome BallSgtrikers Shooting Mid 90's

[Hstead]

Couldn't Help Myself

I have read a zillion threads now where guys are stating that they are very good ball strikers, and they shoot in the 90's, and the only thing holding them back is the putting and short game. Also, it seems that all of these same guys hit 170 yard 7 irons and 300 yard drives. LOL.

My definition of a "very good" ball striker hits at least 12 greens per round on the average course and knocks it stiff a couple of times with wedges. How the heck these guys are talking about 40+ putts etc per round has to be BS. That means they are rarely one putting anything, so they must not be able to make a single putt outside of 3 feet and they must never hit a chip shot close. Not only that, but they then must 3 putt every other green.

If you are a good ballstriker, then you normally are going to be within 20 MAX of the hole in two shots on every par 4. That means guys are then taking 57+ shots for 18 holes to get their ball in the cup from 20 yards on average each hole.

I just couldn't take it anymore and had to ask if anyone else finds it funny that there are so many great ball strikers that bomb it 300 yards and can't break 90 let alone 80? What gives? Also, I have yet to play with a single "good" ball striker that couldn't putt well enough and chip well enough to break 80 nearly every time they tee it up no matter how bad of a putting day they had.

[TML]

It is hilarious. I'm a 7.4 handicap, and I hardly consider myself a "great" ballstriker. When I shoot in the high 70s, it's usually due to a couple of sunk birdie putts or chip ins from off the green.

So for someone to consider themselves a great ballstriker, and not have a low single-digit handicap is one of the great mysteries of the world.

Like you said, someone who hits their woods and irons that well, from my experience, usually has a handy short game. Putting might be an issue, but it's an issue as far as them sinking their birdies, not 3-putting every hole.

[TaylorMadeAP25]

I see people that strike it well and shoot 90 all the time.....Rip a drive hit the fairway.hit a crisp iron over the green into a bunker,blades it over the green , shanks a chip , and 3 putts perfect round for a 90 shooter. Those shots all by the green....short game can make or break your round.

[sdiver68]

[quote name='Hstead' post='2001721' date='Oct 12 2009, 01:00 PM']Also, I have yet to play with a single "good" ball striker that couldn't putt well enough and chip well enough to break 80 nearly every time they tee it up no matter how bad of a putting day they had.[/quote]

Depends on your definition of a good ball striker and if you are comparing yourself to the real world or GolfWRX. What you describe above I would describe as an excellent ball striker.

I'm a 14 with ~6 strokes per round improvement just from a real world 'Good' - GolfWRX 'Average' short game. Yes I average 40 putts. Another 4 per round just avoiding the 2 shots per round that cost multiple strokes. That leaves 4 which I probably will never get.

[tngolf22]

I've gotten some interesting "tips" from this forum and read some good stuff from Slicefixer, Sevam, and it's how I first heard of David Orr and ended up taking a putting lesson from him.

My hcp hovers in the 3-4 range (3.2 index now), I average 11-12 GIRs, and out of my last 20 scores I have two in the 80's, the rest 79 or below. I consider myself a "mediocre" ballstriker and putter. Why? Because I fight a consistent high-draw, cannot hit a fade under pressure, and feel like I should hit it further than I do (don't we all?).

I think feedback from your playing partners gives a good analysis where your game is. At my course I'm considered a "great" driver of the ball, "really good" chipper and short iron player, but no comments on mid-long irons, putting, or sand play so that tells me I need work in those areas. Pretty accurate I would say.

[randomhero1090]

Right there with you HStead. All this "I could be single digit but my short game and putting holds me back" crap is....well....just that, crap.

It takes LESS work AND money to work on your short game. You can do it at home. In your office. Hell, I hit chips in the parking lot at my work during lunch.

If you are a good ballstriker, you are hitting greens. Period. Being able to slam a 7i 170 is great and all, but if you can't hit the green, what good is it? If all you have is that full swing in your arsenal, you'll never be a consistent single-digit golfer.

A good ball striker is the guy who can hit a variety of shots with the same club AND hit greens. He can take a 7i with a 1/2 swing, maybe play it 1 ball back in the stance, hit it under the wind say 15-25 yards shorter than a full swing AND hit he green. To me, a solid ballstriker isn't the guy who hits his irons the longest, its the guy who hits each iron with the greatest amount of [b]accurate range[/b].

Sure, I putt/pitch/chip well. If I didn't, I wouldn't be a 2. But when I hit a fairway, I am EXTREMELY confident in my ability to hit the green. If I am under 160 yards, I feel like I am going to put it inside 30 feet every time. 30 feet isn't a gimmie, but i'm not 3 putting from 25 feet very often, that's for sure.

[zukszoo]

Many people confuse hitting the ball solid with being a good ball striker. I hit the ball ball very solid, but I am not a great ball striker. My direction can be way off a lot of the time. To me a great ball striker not only hits it solid, but controls distance and direction as well. Can one hit the ball solid and not break 80 or 90? Oh yeah!

[madjsp]

I am a great ball striker.







At the range.

[marky1979]

i have a good mate who is a class ball striker, he plays off a handicap of 21!! he has the most fluid swing you would ever see and has never had a lesson!

he hits it 300 yrds of the tee all carry no problem and have seen him pump out 350 drives over the end of our 2 storey driving range when he pours the power on. he Flights long irons really well can basically hit any full shot he wants the distance he wants.

his chipping or putting, jesus is painful to watch!! i wouldn't give him a putt from a inch! he shanks chips everything. the pro in my club has seen him hit balls and has said he has the most natural swing he has ever seen. he has even been fitted on the Nike tour van and guys though he was a pro!

its quite funny as I play off 2, am a medicore ball striker at best, although can work well enough but hit it max 270 off the tee. when we are playing together i look like the hacker!

[6t4gt0]

I'm a very good ball striker and arguably the worst putter on this site, "My Kingdom to putt well!"
I have heard a certain phrase too many times, "Imagine if you could putt!"
No one gives me putts, but we all have our difficulties, mine is putting.

[klausdude]

[quote name='madjsp' post='2001835' date='Oct 12 2009, 11:52 AM']I am a great ball striker.


At the range. [/quote]

Say it isn't so...


[quote name='6t4gt0' post='2001963' date='Oct 12 2009, 12:56 PM']I'm a very good ball striker and arguably the worst putter on this site, "My Kingdom to putt well!"
I have heard a certain phrase too many times, "Imagine if you could putt!"
No one gives me putts, but we all have our difficulties, mine is putting.[/quote]

I could identify with this about 6 months ago. I then made a commitment to put more time with the flatstick and work on pace and aligment. it has paid off tremendously.

[tm22721]

Ball striking IS golf. To me, putting is a trivial pursuit.

[boo radley]

[quote name='tm22721' post='2002188' date='Oct 12 2009, 05:54 PM']Ball striking IS golf. To me, putting is a trivial pursuit.[/quote]

That's a great point.

This is the internet, with low likelyhood of having one's bluff called, and there's no ego satisfaction in being able (virtually) to grind out chips and putts for your 80's/90's scores.

Ah, but striping low, rising drives down the center of the fairway, and banging 3-irons into par-5's in two, but suffering that 85 (on a 7100 track) because of *six* 3-putts, can you believe it?, and -- "Sorry, boys, I'm allergic to the practice green"....Why [b]that's[/b] a golfer.

Still -- I have played with folks who do absolutely crush the ball, but are completely wild, and don't have anything else in the bag. I'm not sure I'd call that 'awesome' ball-striking, but it's impressive when the ball stays in the fairway, or they mash a 5-iron 220.

[oregongolf]

I love this thread. Definitely food for thought.

[seveniron]

[quote]Many people confuse hitting the ball solid with being a good ball striker. I hit the ball ball very solid, but I am not a great ball striker. My direction can be way off a lot of the time. To me a great ball striker not only hits it solid, but controls distance and direction as well. Can one hit the ball solid and not break 80 or 90? Oh yeah![/quote]

Me too, I hit it very solid, but I'm am certainly not a great ball striker. . .I also think people often confuse the two.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='Hstead' post='2001721' date='Oct 12 2009, 02:00 PM']I have read a zillion threads now where guys are stating that they are very good ball strikers, and they shoot in the 90's, and the only thing holding them back is the putting and short game. Also, it seems that all of these same guys hit 170 yard 7 irons and 300 yard drives. LOL.

My definition of a "very good" ball striker hits at least 12 greens per round on the average course and knocks it stiff a couple of times with wedges. How the heck these guys are talking about 40+ putts etc per round has to be BS. That means they are rarely one putting anything, so they must not be able to make a single putt outside of 3 feet and they must never hit a chip shot close. Not only that, but they then must 3 putt every other green.

If you are a good ballstriker, then you normally are going to be within 20 MAX of the hole in two shots on every par 4. That means guys are then taking 57+ shots for 18 holes to get their ball in the cup from 20 yards on average each hole.

I just couldn't take it anymore and had to ask if anyone else finds it funny that there are so many great ball strikers that bomb it 300 yards and can't break 90 let alone 80? What gives? Also, I have yet to play with a single "good" ball striker that couldn't putt well enough and chip well enough to break 80 nearly every time they tee it up no matter how bad of a putting day they had.[/quote]

You are over thinking things.

Some people strike the ball well but putt, pitch and chip poorly.

If they had better short games, they would drop a lot of strokes.

I know guys who shot 70s when we were young but don't play much and still strike it well but can't get up and down much and
3 putt a lot. So they shoot mid high 80s.

Some people play golf multiple times a week. Some don't

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Hstead' post='2001721' date='Oct 12 2009, 11:00 AM']I have read a zillion threads now where guys are stating that they are very good ball strikers, and they shoot in the 90's, and the only thing holding them back is the putting and short game. Also, it seems that all of these same guys hit 170 yard 7 irons and 300 yard drives. LOL.

My definition of a "very good" ball striker hits at least 12 greens per round on the average course and knocks it stiff a couple of times with wedges. How the heck these guys are talking about 40+ putts etc per round has to be BS. That means they are rarely one putting anything, so they must not be able to make a single putt outside of 3 feet and they must never hit a chip shot close. Not only that, but they then must 3 putt every other green.

If you are a good ballstriker, then you normally are going to be within 20 MAX of the hole in two shots on every par 4. That means guys are then taking 57+ shots for 18 holes to get their ball in the cup from 20 yards on average each hole.

I just couldn't take it anymore and had to ask if anyone else finds it funny that there are so many great ball strikers that bomb it 300 yards and can't break 90 let alone 80? What gives? Also, I have yet to play with a single "good" ball striker that couldn't putt well enough and chip well enough to break 80 nearly every time they tee it up no matter how bad of a putting day they had.[/quote]

I read the first line of your post and laughed. No way... regardless of what they want others to believe. It could be true for 3-8's are good ball striker needing help with his short game, course management and thinking. But nobody shooting 85+ is a good ball striker, I don't care what poop their throwing about.

Let me qualify a solid ball striker is someone that nuts the ball 98% of the time, controls distance and trajectory but misses it left and right.

As for bombing it 300yds, I've seen many do it and post mid 80-90 because I was keeping score even when he didn't know it. This kind of guy looses lots of balls because he has little to no directional control, and he doesn't count all the penalty strokes but likes boasting, especially online.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2002395' date='Oct 12 2009, 07:30 PM'][quote name='Hstead' post='2001721' date='Oct 12 2009, 11:00 AM']I have read a zillion threads now where guys are stating that they are very good ball strikers, and they shoot in the 90's, and the only thing holding them back is the putting and short game. Also, it seems that all of these same guys hit 170 yard 7 irons and 300 yard drives. LOL.

My definition of a "very good" ball striker hits at least 12 greens per round on the average course and knocks it stiff a couple of times with wedges. How the heck these guys are talking about 40+ putts etc per round has to be BS. That means they are rarely one putting anything, so they must not be able to make a single putt outside of 3 feet and they must never hit a chip shot close. Not only that, but they then must 3 putt every other green.

If you are a good ballstriker, then you normally are going to be within 20 MAX of the hole in two shots on every par 4. That means guys are then taking 57+ shots for 18 holes to get their ball in the cup from 20 yards on average each hole.

I just couldn't take it anymore and had to ask if anyone else finds it funny that there are so many great ball strikers that bomb it 300 yards and can't break 90 let alone 80? What gives? Also, I have yet to play with a single "good" ball striker that couldn't putt well enough and chip well enough to break 80 nearly every time they tee it up no matter how bad of a putting day they had.[/quote]

I read the first line of your post and laughed. No way... regardless of what they want others to believe. It could be true for 3-8's are good ball striker needing help with his short game, course management and thinking. But nobody shooting 85+ is a good ball striker, I don't care what poop their throwing about.

Let me qualify a solid ball striker is someone that nuts the ball 98% of the time, controls distance and trajectory but misses it left and right.

As for bombing it 300yds, I've seen many do it and post mid 80-90 because I was keeping score even when he didn't know it. This kind of guy looses lots of balls because he has little to no directional control, and he doesn't count all the penalty strokes but likes boasting, especially online.
[/quote]

Are you a good ball striker?

[kencanuck]

[quote name='Hstead' post='2001721' date='Oct 12 2009, 12:00 PM']I have read a zillion threads now where guys are stating that they are very good ball strikers, and they shoot in the 90's, and the only thing holding them back is the putting and short game. Also, it seems that all of these same guys hit 170 yard 7 irons and 300 yard drives. LOL.

My definition of a "very good" ball striker hits at least 12 greens per round on the average course and knocks it stiff a couple of times with wedges. How the heck these guys are talking about 40+ putts etc per round has to be BS. That means they are rarely one putting anything, so they must not be able to make a single putt outside of 3 feet and they must never hit a chip shot close. Not only that, but they then must 3 putt every other green.

If you are a good ballstriker, then you normally are going to be within 20 MAX of the hole in two shots on every par 4. That means guys are then taking 57+ shots for 18 holes to get their ball in the cup from 20 yards on average each hole.

I just couldn't take it anymore and had to ask if anyone else finds it funny that there are so many great ball strikers that bomb it 300 yards and can't break 90 let alone 80? What gives? Also, I have yet to play with a single "good" ball striker that couldn't putt well enough and chip well enough to break 80 nearly every time they tee it up no matter how bad of a putting day they had.[/quote]

Hmmm....interesting post. I am a good to very good ball striker but certainly not a great one. However, come play a round with me and it will be obvious!! I can certainly bomb it but that gets me into trouble when I am off and that is ofter where the score balloons. Combine that with an average putting round and you have a high 80's or very low 90's round. Drives me insane. Keep the drives in the short stuff or least out of OB and I shoot very low 80's (I have shot 80 more times than I can remember). Yet when I stripe one down the middle I almost always putt for birdie. I have a good playing partner who IS a very good ball striker but literally has hands of stone around the green. I cannot count the number of times he has had a chip blade across the green or 3 putt from 4 feet (no kidding!).

So....I see your point and I concede it has some merit but I can see where other aspects of the game can really balloon a score despite being a very good ball striker. For me I have learned to swing the irons at 85% but put a driver or 3 wood in my hand and I have to try and emulate the Tasmanian Devil!!!

Ken

[scores]

Great Post: I think they play a course that has some wide open holes and some tight holes. Here is where they are lacking in ball striking and have to hit the shot out of a chute and they have no room to start the ball down the left or down the right.

BIG number....!!! then another Big number on the same type of hole. These are the players that should play tight courses with small fast greens. They may not have much fun hitting 3I or 4w off the tee also should learn how to hit a knock down 7I???

What is the description of a good ball striker its most likely not the same as mine. This is the reason why I like watching TW play.

Although being a Monday morn qb I think he hit the wrong shots on the back 9 at the pga he came in to high at those pin position but I was not there and has never played that course or seen it.

[kencanuck]

[quote name='randomhero1090' post='2001788' date='Oct 12 2009, 12:25 PM']Right there with you HStead. All this "I could be single digit but my short game and putting holds me back" crap is....well....just that, crap.

It takes LESS work AND money to work on your short game. You can do it at home. In your office. Hell, I hit chips in the parking lot at my work during lunch.

If you are a good ballstriker, you are hitting greens. Period. Being able to slam a 7i 170 is great and all, but if you can't hit the green, what good is it? If all you have is that full swing in your arsenal, you'll never be a consistent single-digit golfer.

A good ball striker is the guy who can hit a variety of shots with the same club AND hit greens. He can take a 7i with a 1/2 swing, maybe play it 1 ball back in the stance, hit it under the wind say 15-25 yards shorter than a full swing AND hit he green. To me, a solid ballstriker isn't the guy who hits his irons the longest, its the guy who hits each iron with the greatest amount of [b]accurate range[/b].

Sure, I putt/pitch/chip well. If I didn't, I wouldn't be a 2. But when I hit a fairway, I am EXTREMELY confident in my ability to hit the green. If I am under 160 yards, I feel like I am going to put it inside 30 feet every time. 30 feet isn't a gimmie, but i'm not 3 putting from 25 feet very often, that's for sure.[/quote]

Great points....given the above I would say I am an average ball striker....now where is that wedge....I am going to chip downstairs since it is snowing outside!!

Ken

[Hstead]

I guess the definition of "good ball striker" is all relative to each of us. My image of a good ball striker doesn't necessarily hit it long, but he hits it flush and straight, always has it in play.

I think the biggest mistake in course management that I see from higher handicap players, some of my best buds included, is that think they hit the ball farther than they do. I have not seen one high handicapper in my life that took too much club on a shot. I have a couple of buddies that sweat they hit their 7 irons 160 yards. These two guys have no idea that they really only average carrying a 7 iron about 135 yards tops, when they don't chunk it. The both stand in the fairway at the 150 marker with 8 irons and I do not think I have ever seen either one of them hit it long ever in many years. They are always short. Occasionally, when we are playing for money, I will talk them into taking two more clubs and inevitably they get it to the hole.

I have played a lot of golf, and I hit it farther than 99% of golfers. I hit my 7 iron 170. But, it seems like we have only the top 1% of golfers represented on this site because everyone seems to hit their 7 iron 170 too just like Tiger. I have many buddies that are accomplished amateur golfers, they can beat my 3 handicap brains in, and they take at least one less club than I do on par 3's and sometimes 2. Yet we have a bunch of guys on here that carry their irons a club or two longer than real "good ball strikers" and they can't break 90. I just don't get it.

[bscinstnct]

This board seems to be comprised of low handicaps.

Who hit short.

[TML]

[quote name='Hstead' post='2002580' date='Oct 12 2009, 05:51 PM']I guess the definition of "good ball striker" is all relative to each of us. My image of a good ball striker doesn't necessarily hit it long, but he hits it flush and straight, always has it in play.[/quote]
That's the truth. My definition of a good ball striker is the guy who almost always hit's his drives in the fairway, and when his drive is in the fairway, hits his approach on the green. On the green, with a good chance for birdie. I play with a guy like that. He is a scratch player. I'd say based on all the rounds that I've played paired up with strangers, this good ball striker is a rare thing indeed. Except of course when you get on this website.

[tbonetw]

A really good ball striker a. hits it really solid, b. hits it with a square clubface, most of the time. This debate seems to always come up when the blades vs. cbs threads pop up. 15 hdcps. who think they can play blades and want to justify to everyone why they do it. It's my driver, they say. My short game, they say. Blah, blah, blah. Hitting the ball solid doesn't just mean your PW. It includes the driver. If a player consistently hits his irons solid with a square clubface, he generally can keep the driver on the golf course, and usually can hit good pitch shots.

As for putting, well, that can be a problem. Meaning a professional who isn't a great putter can't stay on tour. But he can still break par on most courses. Great ballstrikers with substandard short games will still play to a 5 handicap. I know this because I happen to be an average length, mediocre ballstriker by my standards for the last few years. But due to a solid, occasionally spectacular short game, my handicap hasn't been over 5.5 since 1992. When I hit it solid, by my standards, I play to about a 1. When I'm playing to a 0-2 handicap I am probably hitting it well enough to play blades.

But as I've said before, if you're playing a legit golf course and you're averaging over 12 gir, then go get your blades and then spend some time practicing your short game. You should be a 4 handicap in a few months. I will admit I do know a few guys who are 8-10 handicaps who I'd say have equal contact to myself on average to bad days, but don't have my short game. But I've never met a 15 handicap who hits it as well as I do on a bad day. And compared to top amateurs and low level pros, my ballstriking sucks.

Point being, quit kidding yourself. Scratch golfers ALL hit the ball really good. Much better than you do. You shouldn't play unforgiving equipment. You should practice your short game, A LOT. Because you may never hit it that good. And if you are the exception and carry a 15 handicap and hit the ball like Hogan, do us all a favor and post your hdcp. card and a video of your swing. I'd love to be wrong. And for a bottle of Johnnie Walker I can fix your chipping in about an hour.

[XYB34A]

a good ball striker used to be a player that could play 18 holes of golf with a balata golf ball and not smile it or cut it.

totally agree, u arent a good ball striker unless u can hit greens. you need to hit at least 8 greens to break 80, and u need to hit at least 12 greens to break 70. I have shot even par, hitting 3 or 4 greens before, but you really have to grind it out to chip and putt and shoot a decent score.

[8thehardway]

[quote name='tm22721' post='2002188' date='Oct 12 2009, 05:54 PM']Ball striking IS golf. To me, putting is a trivial pursuit.[/quote]

Tiger would disagree. So would Sergio and VJ.

[zmaz]

[quote name='tbonetw' post='2002925' date='Oct 12 2009, 10:12 PM']Point being, quit kidding yourself. Scratch golfers ALL hit the ball really good. Much better than you do. You shouldn't play unforgiving equipment. You should practice your short game, A LOT. Because you may never hit it that good. And if you are the exception and carry a 15 handicap and hit the ball like Hogan, do us all a favor and post your hdcp. card and a video of your swing. I'd love to be wrong. And for a bottle of Johnnie Walker I can fix your chipping in about an hour.[/quote]

I was scratch for about half of my golfing life, and I would say that back then I pretty much hit it like crap a lot of times, though my misses were good, so maybe other people didn't notice. Now I am about a 5 or so most of the time, and I hit it a ton better than I used to. The difference is that I can always find a couple hours to go to the range, but rarely five to play, so I hit it better, but am kind of a wreck on the course sometimes. Still, I agree with your basic point.

[madjsp]

[quote name='klausdude' post='2001998' date='Oct 12 2009, 03:20 PM'][quote name='madjsp' post='2001835' date='Oct 12 2009, 11:52 AM']I am a great ball striker.


At the range. [/quote]

Say it isn't so...


[/quote]

Okay okay I lied, I suck pretty hard on the range too. I generally shoot in the low 90s, but I can get it to the high 80s on occasions. But I generally 2 putt (about 32 average) and my chipping is decent. Ball striking can't be good, because if it was I would be on the green and would have no reason to chip the ball.

[randomhero1090]

[quote name='bscinstnct' post='2002592' date='Oct 12 2009, 08:56 PM']This board seems to be comprised of low handicaps.

Who hit short.

[/quote]

Well, what's "long" these days. I play a "classic" lofted set of clubs with my PW starting at 47*. I hit it 135 with comfort. 8i 155, 6i 175. My father-in-law hits it just as long as I do, but his PW starts at 45* and each club is 2* stronger in loft.

Distance isn't everything. Carry more hybrids (i'm about to get a 4i replacement, damn Adams Pro Blacks are sexy). Get GI irons. Get whatever helps you hit the ball HIGH and STRAIGHT. I see too many people playing a lower ballflight with NO spin that just ends up rolling off the green. Get clubs that help you get the ball in the air and stop on the green.

Yeah yeah, hear all this chatter about playing blades and hitting the ball LOW. I hit the ball kinda high and I never have a problem. If I need to hit it low, I just make a setup adjustment and go up 1 club with a little choke down.