Awesome BallSgtrikers Shooting Mid 90's

[bigred90gt]

[quote name='Hstead' post='2001721' date='Oct 12 2009, 01:00 PM']How the heck these guys are talking about 40+ putts etc per round has to be BS.[/quote]

I played a round the other day and shot an 82. I had 40 putts in that round. Believe it, it happens. I know I need to work on my putting, but I just dont. It is sheer laziness on my part.

I should add that I am not calling myself a great ball striker by any means. I hit just as many terrible shots as I do great shots. But, to call BS on the idea of shooting a decent round and having 40 putts is, well, BS.

[MichMan123]

A few weeks ago I golfed with a friend I haven't played with in ages. I could not believe the way he hit his irons. Long and pure on almost every shot. He hit his 3 iron so high and deep it was something to see.

I shot 78, He shot 86. On that day, he was as good as a ball striker (with all his irons) as I have seen in a long long time.
He couldn't putt, when He missed the green, he NEVER went up and down and he was wild off the tee.

And don't say if he missed greens he wasn't a good striker. He was great. It was Very dry playing very fast greens that day, hard to hold.

I don't consider myself a great ball striker. Pretty consistant and when I'm on, I'm on but I still hit the occasional thin long iron and skulled short iron once in a while but I can still make my way around the course.

[dirtybirdy]

If not having control and just hitting the ball hard made a great ballstriker, this would be a very easy game.

[DLiver]

I'm in agreement with the OP. I just don't see someone repeatedly hitting irons with precision and throwing up a big number.

[8thehardway]

So many adjectives, attitudes and numbers, I've lost tract of the topic. Are we discussing ballstriking that's awesome, great, very good, solid, or good?

[jaiman]

[quote name='boo radley' post='2006818' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:04 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006647' date='Oct 14 2009, 07:02 PM']When someone says that they are a good ball striker but that their short game and putting are holding them back from breaking
90 or 85 or 80, just take them at their word.

[b]The point they are making is the disparity between full swings and short game.[/b]

Take me for example.

I can hit 10 GIR on a 7000 yard course. What should my score be? What would yours be?[/quote]

Except statistics don't support your argument. GIR is, in fact, an incredibly accurate predictor of golf score ( I didn't believe this either, in fact). If you hit 10 GIR, you should be shooting around a 75.

Do you?
[/quote]

I'm going to jump in here and offer a story that I expect few will believe. A couple of weeks ago I hit 12 GIR and shot a 103. How, you might ask? 15 3 putts and 1 4 putt didn't help, plus a couple of blow up holes.

It was gut wrenching. I thought I might have a shot to break 100 for the first time since my full swing seemed to be coming together.

[Pepperturbo]

Seems what constitutes being a ball striker varies per person; and the measure apparently comes about by who knows what and watching someone else hit the ball.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='jaiman' post='2008039' date='Oct 15 2009, 10:34 AM'][quote name='boo radley' post='2006818' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:04 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006647' date='Oct 14 2009, 07:02 PM']When someone says that they are a good ball striker but that their short game and putting are holding them back from breaking
90 or 85 or 80, just take them at their word.

[b]The point they are making is the disparity between full swings and short game.[/b]

Take me for example.

I can hit 10 GIR on a 7000 yard course. What should my score be? What would yours be?[/quote]

Except statistics don't support your argument. GIR is, in fact, an incredibly accurate predictor of golf score ( I didn't believe this either, in fact). If you hit 10 GIR, you should be shooting around a 75.

Do you?
[/quote]

I'm going to jump in here and offer a story that I expect few will believe. A couple of weeks ago I hit 12 GIR and shot a 103. How, you might ask? 15 3 putts and 1 4 putt didn't help, plus a couple of blow up holes.

It was gut wrenching. I thought I might have a shot to break 100 for the first time since my full swing seemed to be coming together.
[/quote]

Curious... I understand this would have been the first time you broke 100, right? How long the course from the tee's you played?

[boo radley]

[quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006846' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:18 PM']I hit 10 greens in 4 of my 16 rounds this year. And my average score in those rounds was 83 and change.

My average score is 87.5.

I have yet to break 80.[/quote]

Then you're something of a statistical outlier. And, stats aside, it doesn't pass the sniff-test. I actually agree with Pepper. If you're hitting over half the greens, in reg, on a 7000 yard course, no doubt it took a lot of work and practice and desire to get to this point -- did this not involve the short game??

[zmaz]

I cannot count the number of times I have hit more than ten greens in a round. It has to be in the hundreds. I can probably count on one hand how many times I have done it, and not come in under 82 or so. Count me among those who do not buy the great ballstriker/bad player theory. I think I probably average a shot or two higher than I ought to hitting the number of greens I do, a combination of not hitting it close to the hole, and not playing that much, but shooting worse by a dozen strokes makes no sense to me at all. Maybe if you play Master's greens all the time...

[avrag]

The sentence "I am a good ball striker with the irons, but my driving and my short game are holding me back" usually comes up in the "Can I play MP-68s as a 15 hcp?" threads.
While my answer to this question is always a clear "Yes!", coming right from the heart, I still don't buy the "good ball striker, but 15 hcp" part.
Here's why:
The "Yes!" part:
Being an 18hcp myself, I play many of my rounds (mainly in the summer) with Mizuno MP-32s. I enjoy it, yet I realize that mishits with them are usually shorter and more offline than with my other irons. But it is still a pleasant experience most of the time. I enjoy that in the same way as somebody who has a Jaguar E-Type convertible in the garage and takes it out for a ride on some sunny Sunday afternoons, yet would never drive it to work everyday and would never use it for driving into the mountains on a skiing vacation. Where I live, only rounds in club competitions count towards the hcp, and I usually use GI irons in those. The best parts of my game are certainly driving and chipping by the way. And as my ball striking with irons gets better, I get more of an idea, what "forgiveness" in irons means.
The "I don't buy it" part:
I think it is hard to believe that somebody could be a good ballstriker with the full swing, but a bad ballstriker when chipping and pitching. To be a good ball striker, one has to have the abilty to hit the ball in the sweet spot most of the time, and if somebody can do it with a full swing, why shouldn't he be able to do with a more controlled and shorter motion? So "good ballstriking - bad short game" is something I just don't see.
Having said that, I concede that putting is a whole different story.
I played nine holes with a teaching professional once, who is known by everybody in the area to have the most beautiful swing you can imagine and to hit the ball far and straight. After trying his luck playing on mini tours, he gave up quickly. When I played with him he hit every fairway and every green in regulation on the nine holes, except one, which was a par5 he hit in two (driver, 6iron for 480 meters = 520 yards). He stiffed the 6iron to 2 feet and made eagle there, but other than that, he was not able to score under par on any other hole. Most of the time, it was like 2iron for 250yards, center of the fairway, PW for 120 yards to within 6 feet, two putts. When he did not put it really close and had to putt from 20 or 25 feet, he 3putted. So, with 7/7 fairways hit and 9/9 GIR, he was +3 after 9 holes, never being more than 25 feet from the flag.
There are great ballstrikers who are held back by their putting, but I would imagine that they are more in the 0 to 5 hcp range, not in the 10 to 15.

[OpusX20]

I think the term "great ball striker" gets thrown around way too much. I guess it's just a matter of degree and individual definition. Personally, I am a 3 handicap and a truly awful ball striker. I play with people all the time that have a higher handicap than me, but are much better ball strikers. But, it's hard for me to imagine a ball stiker that I would classify as "great" or even "good" who is shooting in the 90's.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but I certainly haven't played with one up until this point in my golf life. I can see a situation where a great ball stiker lost it one day and shot in the 90's (although even that would be extreme). But, I can't see where this great ball striker would shoot that consistently.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='boo radley' post='2008338' date='Oct 15 2009, 02:57 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006846' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:18 PM']I hit 10 greens in 4 of my 16 rounds this year. And my average score in those rounds was 83 and change.

My average score is 87.5.

I have yet to break 80.[/quote]

Then you're something of a statistical outlier. And, stats aside, it doesn't pass the sniff-test. I actually agree with Pepper. If you're hitting over half the greens, in reg, on a 7000 yard course, no doubt it took a lot of work and practice and desire to get to this point -- did this not involve the short game??
[/quote]

As you can see by the other posts, not as much of an outlier as you might think.

I don't have time to practice much, I just hit the ball well.

But I can easily chunk a chip, then chip over the green and then 3 putt. So I take an 7 or 8 when someone with a good short
game would par. Some people love to be 50 or 60 yards out. I'd rather be 160 out.

I do this all the time.

I 3 putt 3 or 4 times out of 10 when I am on in regulation. If I am 20 feet away, I always 3 putt. I never make anything
over 6 or 7 feet and I miss 3 footers all the time. I can also 4 putt.

And I never get up and down.

Fortunately, my primary satisfaction as far as golf goes is hitting the ball and watching it fly.

But sure, the rounds where I can hit 10 greens, I shoot low 80s. I like this score.

The rounds where I hit 8 or 9, I break 90 and still have a lot of fun.

I anticipate that given how much I love to play, I will practice my short game a lot when I have the time and break 80.

In the mean time, put me down as a good ball striker whose short game is holding them back.

[Hstead]

I guess one of my other favorites is "I am a great ball striker with my irons, but the tee shot is holding me back". I don't get that either. I have yet to see a "great" ball striker that couldn't also strike it off of the tee. Just me I guess.

[zmaz]

[quote name='Hstead' post='2008447' date='Oct 15 2009, 04:00 PM']I guess one of my other favorites is "I am a great ball striker with my irons, but the tee shot is holding me back". I don't get that either. I have yet to see a "great" ball striker that couldn't also strike it off of the tee. Just me I guess.[/quote]

Jose Maria Olazabal. Seriously. The guy drove it like an eight handicapper.

[randomhero1090]

[quote name='bscinstnct' post='2008413' date='Oct 15 2009, 03:42 PM']I 3 putt 3 or 4 times out of 10 when I am on in regulation. If I am 20 feet away, I always 3 putt. I never make anything
over 6 or 7 feet and I miss 3 footers all the time. I can also 4 putt.[/quote]

3 putting that much is a sin. Sorry. Putting is the EASIEST and CHEAPEST thing to work on. You can putt at home, in the office OR just go to any public course and use the practice green.

You are basically saying you 3 putt 5-7 times per round.... 2 or 3, ok, your putting everything out with 0 gimmies, totally get that. But 5-7 times means there is something wrong with your putting OR you are WAY outside 20 feet on a lot of your 1st putts.

I'd spend some time on it. Your talking about cutting 3-4 strokes off your game, that's quite a bit.

[PorkChopExpress]

another favorite
"I'm fine from tee to green"

Yet hit less than 50% GIR, probably 30%

[screaming eagle]

[quote name='bigred90gt' post='2007274' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:10 PM'][quote name='Hstead' post='2001721' date='Oct 12 2009, 01:00 PM']How the heck these guys are talking about 40+ putts etc per round has to be BS.[/quote]

I played a round the other day and shot an 82. I had 40 putts in that round. Believe it, it happens. I know I need to work on my putting, but I just dont. It is sheer laziness on my part.

I should add that I am not calling myself a great ball striker by any means. I hit just as many terrible shots as I do great shots. But, to call BS on the idea of shooting a decent round and having 40 putts is, well, BS.
[/quote]

Interested to know how far your typical first putt was. 20 ft and in from hole pin high is a good strike, with maybe some alignment off. 10 ft short and 10 ft wide isn't so hot if you're talking consistant ballstriking, and thats wht we're talkin here, great ballstrikers who post mid 80's + and the short game letds them down. The stats still don't add up for me i'm sorry.

[jaiman]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2008145' date='Oct 15 2009, 01:25 PM'][quote name='jaiman' post='2008039' date='Oct 15 2009, 10:34 AM'][quote name='boo radley' post='2006818' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:04 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006647' date='Oct 14 2009, 07:02 PM']When someone says that they are a good ball striker but that their short game and putting are holding them back from breaking
90 or 85 or 80, just take them at their word.

[b]The point they are making is the disparity between full swings and short game.[/b]

Take me for example.

I can hit 10 GIR on a 7000 yard course. What should my score be? What would yours be?[/quote]

Except statistics don't support your argument. GIR is, in fact, an incredibly accurate predictor of golf score ( I didn't believe this either, in fact). If you hit 10 GIR, you should be shooting around a 75.

Do you?
[/quote]

I'm going to jump in here and offer a story that I expect few will believe. A couple of weeks ago I hit 12 GIR and shot a 103. How, you might ask? 15 3 putts and 1 4 putt didn't help, plus a couple of blow up holes.

It was gut wrenching. I thought I might have a shot to break 100 for the first time since my full swing seemed to be coming together.
[/quote]

Curious... I understand this would have been the first time you broke 100, right? How long the course from the tee's you played?
[/quote]


It would have been, yes. Plays about 6000 yards from the white tees.

I know I'm an anomoly. If there was an award for the most inconsistent golfer in the world, I could win it. In this particular round I was about 15 yards short of driving the opening green. With a 3H (now its only a 315 yard hole and there is a bit of a corner that I cut, but the GPS still said i hit it 255). The former cruise ship pro I was playing with said it was one of the most pure strikes he's ever seen. I then flubbed my chip just on to the green, and 3 putted from 30 feet. The next hole I hooked 2 balls OB from the tee and lost another in the water. Ended up with a 10.

[TML]

[quote name='jaiman' post='2008619' date='Oct 15 2009, 02:20 PM'][quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2008145' date='Oct 15 2009, 01:25 PM'][quote name='jaiman' post='2008039' date='Oct 15 2009, 10:34 AM'][quote name='boo radley' post='2006818' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:04 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006647' date='Oct 14 2009, 07:02 PM']When someone says that they are a good ball striker but that their short game and putting are holding them back from breaking
90 or 85 or 80, just take them at their word.

[b]The point they are making is the disparity between full swings and short game.[/b]

Take me for example.

I can hit 10 GIR on a 7000 yard course. What should my score be? What would yours be?[/quote]

Except statistics don't support your argument. GIR is, in fact, an incredibly accurate predictor of golf score ( I didn't believe this either, in fact). If you hit 10 GIR, you should be shooting around a 75.

Do you?
[/quote]

I'm going to jump in here and offer a story that I expect few will believe. A couple of weeks ago I hit 12 GIR and shot a 103. How, you might ask? 15 3 putts and 1 4 putt didn't help, plus a couple of blow up holes.

It was gut wrenching. I thought I might have a shot to break 100 for the first time since my full swing seemed to be coming together.
[/quote]

Curious... I understand this would have been the first time you broke 100, right? How long the course from the tee's you played?
[/quote]


It would have been, yes. Plays about 6000 yards from the white tees.

I know I'm an anomoly. If there was an award for the most inconsistent golfer in the world, I could win it. In this particular round I was about 15 yards short of driving the opening green. With a 3H (now its only a 315 yard hole and there is a bit of a corner that I cut, but the GPS still said i hit it 255). The former cruise ship pro I was playing with said it was one of the most pure strikes he's ever seen. I then flubbed my chip just on to the green, and 3 putted from 30 feet. [b]The next hole I hooked 2 balls OB from the tee and lost another in the water. Ended up with a 10.[/b]
[/quote]
Hate to break it to you, but You are not a great ball striker.

[jaiman]

[quote name='TML' post='2008712' date='Oct 15 2009, 06:06 PM'][quote name='jaiman' post='2008619' date='Oct 15 2009, 02:20 PM'][quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2008145' date='Oct 15 2009, 01:25 PM'][quote name='jaiman' post='2008039' date='Oct 15 2009, 10:34 AM'][quote name='boo radley' post='2006818' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:04 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006647' date='Oct 14 2009, 07:02 PM']When someone says that they are a good ball striker but that their short game and putting are holding them back from breaking
90 or 85 or 80, just take them at their word.

[b]The point they are making is the disparity between full swings and short game.[/b]

Take me for example.

I can hit 10 GIR on a 7000 yard course. What should my score be? What would yours be?[/quote]

Except statistics don't support your argument. GIR is, in fact, an incredibly accurate predictor of golf score ( I didn't believe this either, in fact). If you hit 10 GIR, you should be shooting around a 75.

Do you?
[/quote]

I'm going to jump in here and offer a story that I expect few will believe. A couple of weeks ago I hit 12 GIR and shot a 103. How, you might ask? 15 3 putts and 1 4 putt didn't help, plus a couple of blow up holes.

It was gut wrenching. I thought I might have a shot to break 100 for the first time since my full swing seemed to be coming together.
[/quote]

Curious... I understand this would have been the first time you broke 100, right? How long the course from the tee's you played?
[/quote]


It would have been, yes. Plays about 6000 yards from the white tees.

I know I'm an anomoly. If there was an award for the most inconsistent golfer in the world, I could win it. In this particular round I was about 15 yards short of driving the opening green. With a 3H (now its only a 315 yard hole and there is a bit of a corner that I cut, but the GPS still said i hit it 255). The former cruise ship pro I was playing with said it was one of the most pure strikes he's ever seen. I then flubbed my chip just on to the green, and 3 putted from 30 feet. [b]The next hole I hooked 2 balls OB from the tee and lost another in the water. Ended up with a 10.[/b]
[/quote]
Hate to break it to you, but You are not a great ball striker.
[/quote]

Never said I was. I posted my story to show that GIR doesn't necessarily mean good scores if you are a yippy putter who's prone to blowing up when not hitting greens.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='jaiman' post='2008716' date='Oct 15 2009, 06:08 PM'][quote name='TML' post='2008712' date='Oct 15 2009, 06:06 PM'][quote name='jaiman' post='2008619' date='Oct 15 2009, 02:20 PM'][quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2008145' date='Oct 15 2009, 01:25 PM'][quote name='jaiman' post='2008039' date='Oct 15 2009, 10:34 AM'][quote name='boo radley' post='2006818' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:04 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006647' date='Oct 14 2009, 07:02 PM']When someone says that they are a good ball striker but that their short game and putting are holding them back from breaking
90 or 85 or 80, just take them at their word.

[b]The point they are making is the disparity between full swings and short game.[/b]

Take me for example.

I can hit 10 GIR on a 7000 yard course. What should my score be? What would yours be?[/quote]

Except statistics don't support your argument. GIR is, in fact, an incredibly accurate predictor of golf score ( I didn't believe this either, in fact). If you hit 10 GIR, you should be shooting around a 75.

Do you?
[/quote]

I'm going to jump in here and offer a story that I expect few will believe. A couple of weeks ago I hit 12 GIR and shot a 103. How, you might ask? 15 3 putts and 1 4 putt didn't help, plus a couple of blow up holes.

It was gut wrenching. I thought I might have a shot to break 100 for the first time since my full swing seemed to be coming together.
[/quote]

Curious... I understand this would have been the first time you broke 100, right? How long the course from the tee's you played?
[/quote]


It would have been, yes. Plays about 6000 yards from the white tees.

I know I'm an anomoly. If there was an award for the most inconsistent golfer in the world, I could win it. In this particular round I was about 15 yards short of driving the opening green. With a 3H (now its only a 315 yard hole and there is a bit of a corner that I cut, but the GPS still said i hit it 255). The former cruise ship pro I was playing with said it was one of the most pure strikes he's ever seen. I then flubbed my chip just on to the green, and 3 putted from 30 feet. [b]The next hole I hooked 2 balls OB from the tee and lost another in the water. Ended up with a 10.[/b]
[/quote]
Hate to break it to you, but You are not a great ball striker.
[/quote]

Never said I was. I posted my story to show that GIR doesn't necessarily mean good scores if you are a yippy putter who's prone to blowing up when not hitting greens.
[/quote]

Don't worry about it.

For some reason, people are intent on imposing their views and anything that you say that conflicts is either a lie or
must be corrected.

I am waiting for someone to tell me that I did [b]not [/b]have a bagel for breakfast.

[TML]

the thread is titled "Awesome Ballstrikers shooting mid 90s". I stand corrected, Awesome Ballstrikers shoot mid 90s. Less than awesome ballstrikers shoot mid 100s. GIR stats have no bearing on your score. got it.

[8thehardway]

[quote name='bscinstnct' post='2008756' date='Oct 15 2009, 06:33 PM']For some reason, people are intent on imposing their views and anything that you say that conflicts is either a lie or
must be corrected.

I am waiting for someone to tell me that I did [b]not [/b]have a bagel for breakfast.[/quote]

Can a bagel be awesome if it doesn't have cream cheese on it?

Great, good, etc. are evaluations based on each person's experience, familiarity and ability. Watching 1,000 single-digit golfers, a beginner might think 800 swings were great, and Tiger might say 20. In general, better ball strikers will have higher standards, lesser strikers have lower ones.

One of the nice things about being less pickey is I don't have to wait until the shot lands to know whether or not it was well struck... just hearing the contact is often enough to judge.

[bigred90gt]

[quote name='screaming eagle' post='2008547' date='Oct 15 2009, 03:44 PM'][quote name='bigred90gt' post='2007274' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:10 PM'][quote name='Hstead' post='2001721' date='Oct 12 2009, 01:00 PM']How the heck these guys are talking about 40+ putts etc per round has to be BS.[/quote]

I played a round the other day and shot an 82. I had 40 putts in that round. Believe it, it happens. I know I need to work on my putting, but I just dont. It is sheer laziness on my part.

I should add that I am not calling myself a great ball striker by any means. I hit just as many terrible shots as I do great shots. But, to call BS on the idea of shooting a decent round and having 40 putts is, well, BS.
[/quote]

Interested to know how far your typical first putt was. 20 ft and in from hole pin high is a good strike, with maybe some alignment off. 10 ft short and 10 ft wide isn't so hot if you're talking consistant ballstriking, and thats wht we're talkin here, great ballstrikers who post mid 80's + and the short game letds them down. The stats still don't add up for me i'm sorry.
[/quote]I honestly do not keep stats on the length of putts. You can throw me in with those who can miss a 3ft putt just as easily as a 30ft putt though. I have missed 3 putts less than 2ft, in the course of 2 tournaments. I'll look and see if I can find the scorecard for the round mentioned in my previous post, but I think it was actually 38 putts. Some holes were chipped up close and 1 putted, and some were 3 putts. I just know I was not too upset with the score, being that I carry a 9.7 handicap, until I saw how many putts I had. I wanted to throw up. Like I said, I just dont practice my putting. I dont have carpet in my house, so putting in the living room is out. I cannot bring my golf clubs into my office, so putting at work is out. If I am going to the course, usually I am playing. Most times, it is a spur of the moment decision, and with my bad back, I would rather spend 30 minutes loosening up my back on the driving range than putting. So, I just dont practice putting, and it shows.

Today, I 3 putted #9 from about 12 feet. I missed the 1st putt, and ran it by about 18", and missed the come back putt. This happens all too often.

[mozgolf]

I have only played the game about 30 years and am yet to see a good ball striker that consistantly shoots in the 90s, [b]NEVER[/b]

I have seen tons that flail away and hit it a long way, but % hit well and direction / distance control etc is out the window.

On the web such assertions are normally followed by the desire to play blades because they cant stand the sight of fat toplines/ offset and they need to work the ball some more.

[peez007]

I went from an 10.8cap to a 7.1cap this summer- it was all about the short game. I only practiced my short game (Phil Mickelson DVD) and i was able to shave +3 strokes from my Handicap.

So in short, my ball striking was the same when i was a 10.8 as it is when I am a 7.1.