Awesome BallSgtrikers Shooting Mid 90's

[SHERO]

In my opinion a good ballstriker misses in the right places. He matches up good course management with good technical ability.
Say for example, I was to hit 12 greens. Of the 6 greens I would miss 3 would leave a very difficult up and down, at least one usually leads to a double, and the others may be okay due to fluke.

[northgolf]

[quote name='justaman5' post='2002941' date='Oct 12 2009, 11:24 PM']a good ball striker used to be a player that could play 18 holes of golf with a balata golf ball and not smile it or cut it.[/quote]

Never. A balata ball goes out of round within six holes if you put any sort of hit on it with a driver. We used to carry rings in our bag for checking the roundness of the ball - damned hard to putt an egg.

[action_dan]

Just wanted to add my sob story, and another reason to practice the short game. I just about had my best ball striking round and the worst putting/chipping round this weekend (my absolute best I had, was 8/9 girs with 36 putts for a 38 this year, same course 69.6/122 slope, 6250yds, par 72).

Anyway, this weekend, I hit 9 greens, only 5 fairways (2 narrow misses , and 7 if you count adjacent fairways), but had 6 3-putts for a grand total of 42 putts and a score of 92. I think my average is still 35-36 putts a round, but 42 is my absolute worst this year. Usually I have about 2-3 3-putts a round, and they usually come from outside 30-45' for the first putt. I know I can putt it straight, but usually I don't get the pacing or just read it wrong. Chipping is horrible, especially when I short side the approach shot.

I just got new wedges and my lob wedge went from 65-70 yds to about 90 and my 56* sand wedge stayed the same at around 100. So, I know I need to spend some more time around the green with them to figure out how they react and spin (they seem to check up and stop a lot quicker now). I also just got some ping eye 2's, so my wedge is 50*, but going from a 47* wedge to the 50* wedge, it stayed the same at about 115. I get a lower flight with the eye 2's, but it still seems to hop and stop up to the 5i-6i (playing the b-stone 330-s).

I only play 15-20 times a year, but I think, when it starts warming up again, I'm going to try to get out more like 2-3 times a week. I've seen my handicap come down from 21.x to 17.1 this year, I've finally broken 90 twice this year (shot an 84 with 28 putts), but I need to work on my short game. Up and downs need to happen more, and I need to learn how to hit the first putt close (I feel confident from 3' just not from far away). BTW, I think I'm a short hitter at 175 for a 5i and an average drive of about 250-255.

Moral of the story this season is that I should be devoting most of my practice time to the short game.

Also, I agree with SHERO. A good ballstriker knows where to miss, and backs it up with good course management. A good short game makes a good ballstriker deadly.

[im a doughball]

[quote name='randomhero1090' post='2003657' date='Oct 13 2009, 11:26 AM']Well, what's "long" these days. I play a "classic" lofted set of clubs with my PW starting at 47*. I hit it 135 with comfort. 8i 155, 6i 175. My father-in-law hits it just as long as I do, but his PW starts at 45* and each club is 2* stronger in loft....[/quote]


Whats classic about a jacked up 47* PW? Classic lofts would be more like 50/51* pw, with a 45/46* 9 iron.

[Puppetmaster]

Where would y'all classify someone like me who is a "solid" ballstriker, hits a 200 yard 5 iron, but has a 9 handicap (ranges between 7 to 10)?

Hold on, here are the excuses: I play 5-8 rounds a season tops because of other commitments, and when I do play, I'm usually even for about 13 holes (maybe 8 GIRs on avg) and then about +9 for the other 5. If and when I cut out my 7s and 8s, I shoot in the mid to high 70s. Totally serious.

Anyway, some of my buddies whom I've played with for years say I lack mental strength and focus, which I tend to agree with, because I have the nerves of a Jack Russell on expresso. Playing more can't hurt either. I've played this game recreationally now for over 20 years now but haven't gone lower than a 6.

*flame suit ON*

[highergr0und]

I think there's a big difference between folks who can hit a ball far and great ballstrikers. A pretty good ballstriker can consistently put a ball where they want, when they want to, and a great ballstriker can do the same thing in many different ways. Making solid contact consistently is just the first step in becoming a good striker of the ball.

[Pepperturbo]

I can't help but wonder where some of you come up with your understanding of what constitutes a ball striker... How far someone hits any given club, course management, what ball they play, tee's used, putter, club head material or design, swing speed, whether boxers or briefs, or frequency of play has NOTHING to do with [b]using the sweet spot at least 98% of the time [/b]to strike the ball.

Historically ball striking has been associated with irons. A few things can be extrapolated from hitting the ball on the screw 98% of the time as well; a round wear spot exists in the center of the club face, swing mechanics are solid so is distance and directional control.

Can a nine (9) index be a solid ball striker - intermittently with potential? Can someone that plays 5-8 rounds with 7’s and 8’s on the card extrapolate to scores in the 70 if playing regularly. Reminds me of the guy that says I had a big month last month so he thinks he will earn big money for the coming years. Bear in mind a large percentage of the better ball strikers (or low amateur/pro) score results from self-control, proper thinking and consistent ball striking. Let me throw in another aspect that doesn't compute; benefiting from a club heads forgiving nature realizing distance.

Ball striking is NOT about assumptions, presumptions, dreams, ideals and maybe’s. It’s about getting the club head on the ball in the same spot 98% of the time.

[screaming eagle]

[quote name='tbonetw' post='2002925' date='Oct 12 2009, 08:12 PM']A really good ball striker a. hits it really solid, b. hits it with a square clubface, most of the time. This debate seems to always come up when the blades vs. cbs threads pop up. 15 hdcps. who think they can play blades and want to justify to everyone why they do it. It's my driver, they say. My short game, they say. Blah, blah, blah. Hitting the ball solid doesn't just mean your PW. It includes the driver. If a player consistently hits his irons solid with a square clubface, he generally can keep the driver on the golf course, and usually can hit good pitch shots.

As for putting, well, that can be a problem. Meaning a professional who isn't a great putter can't stay on tour. But he can still break par on most courses. Great ballstrikers with substandard short games will still play to a 5 handicap. I know this because I happen to be an average length, mediocre ballstriker by my standards for the last few years. But due to a solid, occasionally spectacular short game, my handicap hasn't been over 5.5 since 1992. When I hit it solid, by my standards, I play to about a 1. When I'm playing to a 0-2 handicap I am probably hitting it well enough to play blades.

But as I've said before, if you're playing a legit golf course and you're averaging over 12 gir, then go get your blades and then spend some time practicing your short game. You should be a 4 handicap in a few months. I will admit I do know a few guys who are 8-10 handicaps who I'd say have equal contact to myself on average to bad days, but don't have my short game. But I've never met a 15 handicap who hits it as well as I do on a bad day. And compared to top amateurs and low level pros, my ballstriking sucks.

Point being, quit kidding yourself. Scratch golfers ALL hit the ball really good. Much better than you do. You shouldn't play unforgiving equipment. You should practice your short game, A LOT. Because you may never hit it that good. And if you are the exception and carry a 15 handicap and hit the ball like Hogan, do us all a favor and post your hdcp. card and a video of your swing. I'd love to be wrong. And for a bottle of Johnnie Walker I can fix your chipping in about an hour.[/quote]

Gotta say I concur. I have serious problems with a 15 that states they're a good ballstriker, the stats don't add up, because 'occassionally' doesn't mean your a good ballstriker, sorry. I'm about a 15 (no index but avg my rounds on a 71.7, 6628 yd course). I avg at least 1 to 2 drives 300 + each round and 2 3putts since I've been keeping stats. MY ball striking SUCKS if you ask me (putting too !) and it can't be any other way for a 15 no matter how good you THINK you hit it. If my putting improved 5 strokes (a lot !) that still puts me at a 10. I have good hands in that I can fade/slice most stuff back on the fairway to keep it in play, my FIR is quite good on occassion, and not usually below 50%. And occasionally pure 1 or 2 bullets a round. But not being able to hit a majority of greens, or shape it at will means I'm NOT a good ballstriker despite my distance. (Will happily take you up on the chipping lesson/Johnny Walker exchange if you live in SoCal tbone, because that is where I get into trouble a lot, from 80yds in) and if you can't finesse the ball, especially around the greens, well guess what, you're NOT a good ballstriker. And that includes the wedges from all aspects, in my mind. Surely the term implies power AND/OR finesse, not just being able to hit it hard, but striking the ball so it does what you want/need it to do. I may be way off base here but JMHO, it is the internet for godssake !

[Puppetmaster]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2004236' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:48 PM']Can a nine (9) index be a solid ball striker - intermittently with potential? Can someone that plays 5-8 rounds with 7's and 8's on the card extrapolate to scores in the 70 if playing regularly. Reminds me of the guy that says I had a big month last month so he thinks he will earn big money for the coming years. Bear in mind a large percentage of the better ball strikers (or low amateur/pro) score results from self-control, proper thinking and consistent ball striking. Let me throw in another aspect that doesn't compute; benefiting from a club heads forgiving nature realizing distance.[/quote]

Please don't get me wrong, I wasn't disagreeing with the general point, I was in agreement actually, but sort of seeking advice/comments in a self deprecating way. That's why I said I was a "solid" ballstriker in quotes, not a "good" ballstriker, which was the term of debate here. Anyway, I'm in the financial world, so I know the dangers of projections, so no worries there. But I did mean that in actuality, when I don't have 7s and 8s, I DO shoot in the 70s, but whatever, this is the internet, so no one cares. Anyway, that's also why I threw in the mental aspect of it for the sake of discussion. It was my way of starting a discussion on a slightly different animal, someone with perceived (or misperceived) potential to get better. Don't worry, no offense taken because my post was a ramble anyway, much like this one. Haha.

PS - anyway, this is what I get for spending too much time on an internet message board while at work...

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Puppetmaster' post='2004273' date='Oct 13 2009, 02:04 PM'][quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2004236' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:48 PM']Can a nine (9) index be a solid ball striker - intermittently with potential? Can someone that plays 5-8 rounds with 7's and 8's on the card extrapolate to scores in the 70 if playing regularly. Reminds me of the guy that says I had a big month last month so he thinks he will earn big money for the coming years. Bear in mind a large percentage of the better ball strikers (or low amateur/pro) score results from self-control, proper thinking and consistent ball striking. Let me throw in another aspect that doesn't compute; benefiting from a club heads forgiving nature realizing distance.[/quote]

Please don't get me wrong, I wasn't disagreeing with the general point, I was in agreement actually, but sort of seeking advice/comments in a self deprecating way. That's why I said I was a "solid" ballstriker in quotes, not a "good" ballstriker, which was the term of debate here. Anyway, I'm in the financial world, so I know the dangers of projections, so no worries there. But I did mean that in actuality, when I don't have 7s and 8s, I DO shoot in the 70s, but whatever, this is the internet, so no one cares. Anyway, that's also why I threw in the mental aspect of it for the sake of discussion. It was my way of starting a discussion on a slightly different animal, someone with perceived (or misperceived) potential to get better. Don't worry, no offense taken because my post was a ramble anyway, much like this one. Haha.

PS - anyway, this is what I get for spending too much time on an Internet message board while at work...
[/quote]

A solid ball striker has a wear spot on the screw, and a good ball striker has no noticeable wear to speak of; of course head material plays a part in how noticeable. Anyways, I find it hard to believe someone only plays 5-8 times a year following the rules posting scores in the 70's. I know a few x-college players with notable swings that don't play regularly yet they still have the college game head, and only post in the 80's.

[Hstead]

[quote name='Puppetmaster' post='2004005' date='Oct 13 2009, 02:02 PM']Where would y'all classify someone like me who is a "solid" ballstriker, hits a 200 yard 5 iron, but has a 9 handicap (ranges between 7 to 10)?

Hold on, here are the excuses: I play 5-8 rounds a season tops because of other commitments, and when I do play, I'm usually even for about 13 holes (maybe 8 GIRs on avg) and then about +9 for the other 5. If and when I cut out my 7s and 8s, I shoot in the mid to high 70s. Totally serious.

Anyway, some of my buddies whom I've played with for years say I lack mental strength and focus, which I tend to agree with, because I have the nerves of a Jack Russell on expresso. Playing more can't hurt either. I've played this game recreationally now for over 20 years now but haven't gone lower than a 6.

*flame suit ON*

[/quote]

This I can handle. A solid ball striker can play 6 times per year at a 7-10, because the lack of play would cost them at least 4 or more shots per round due to the short game not being sharp. This actually points directly to my claim, a solid ball striker doesn't shot mid 90's even when his short game is lacking from only playing 6 times per year with no practice.

This is actually what I have done for the past three years. I had a 2 handicap, quit playing, and for the past three years I played twice per year. I still didn't shoot 90's. No way. My short game sucked. I still shot around high 70's to low 80's.

[Puppetmaster]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2004392' date='Oct 13 2009, 05:55 PM'][quote name='Puppetmaster' post='2004273' date='Oct 13 2009, 02:04 PM'][quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2004236' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:48 PM']Can a nine (9) index be a solid ball striker - intermittently with potential? Can someone that plays 5-8 rounds with 7's and 8's on the card extrapolate to scores in the 70 if playing regularly. Reminds me of the guy that says I had a big month last month so he thinks he will earn big money for the coming years. Bear in mind a large percentage of the better ball strikers (or low amateur/pro) score results from self-control, proper thinking and consistent ball striking. Let me throw in another aspect that doesn't compute; benefiting from a club heads forgiving nature realizing distance.[/quote]

Please don't get me wrong, I wasn't disagreeing with the general point, I was in agreement actually, but sort of seeking advice/comments in a self deprecating way. That's why I said I was a "solid" ballstriker in quotes, not a "good" ballstriker, which was the term of debate here. Anyway, I'm in the financial world, so I know the dangers of projections, so no worries there. But I did mean that in actuality, when I don't have 7s and 8s, I DO shoot in the 70s, but whatever, this is the internet, so no one cares. Anyway, that's also why I threw in the mental aspect of it for the sake of discussion. It was my way of starting a discussion on a slightly different animal, someone with perceived (or misperceived) potential to get better. Don't worry, no offense taken because my post was a ramble anyway, much like this one. Haha.

PS - anyway, this is what I get for spending too much time on an Internet message board while at work...
[/quote]

A solid ball striker has a wear spot on the screw, and a good ball striker has no noticeable wear to speak of; of course head material plays a part in how noticeable. Anyways, I find it hard to believe someone only plays 5-8 times a year following the rules posting scores in the 70's. I know a few x-college players with notable swings that don't play regularly yet they still have the college game head, and only post in the 80's.

[/quote]

If I'm a 9, going by most indexing systems, that means the better half of my rounds are between 7 and 11 over (assuming [u]generously[/u] +/- 2 shot variance an average of +9). This leaves the other half worse than 11 over, so just assuming some basic proportions, less than 25% of the time I'd be shooting in the high 70s, but mostly I'd be low to mid 80s, which jives with what you are saying. I'd like to think I'm entitled to some good days out too . I know, very oversimplified math, but I hope you see my point. I'm not sure why you think I have something to prove here because I don't.

[Puppetmaster]

[quote name='Hstead' post='2004483' date='Oct 13 2009, 06:39 PM'][quote name='Puppetmaster' post='2004005' date='Oct 13 2009, 02:02 PM']Where would y'all classify someone like me who is a "solid" ballstriker, hits a 200 yard 5 iron, but has a 9 handicap (ranges between 7 to 10)?

Hold on, here are the excuses: I play 5-8 rounds a season tops because of other commitments, and when I do play, I'm usually even for about 13 holes (maybe 8 GIRs on avg) and then about +9 for the other 5. If and when I cut out my 7s and 8s, I shoot in the mid to high 70s. Totally serious.

Anyway, some of my buddies whom I've played with for years say I lack mental strength and focus, which I tend to agree with, because I have the nerves of a Jack Russell on expresso. Playing more can't hurt either. I've played this game recreationally now for over 20 years now but haven't gone lower than a 6.

*flame suit ON*

[/quote]

This I can handle. A solid ball striker can play 6 times per year at a 7-10, because the lack of play would cost them at least 4 or more shots per round due to the short game not being sharp. This actually points directly to my claim, a solid ball striker doesn't shot mid 90's even when his short game is lacking from only playing 6 times per year with no practice.

This is actually what I have done for the past three years. I had a 2 handicap, quit playing, and for the past three years I played twice per year. I still didn't shoot 90's. No way. My short game sucked. I still shot around high 70's to low 80's.
[/quote]

I'm glad someone understands...

[anth]

A good ballstriker does not miss with his irons, and when he does it is either short or long. Good ballstrikers very rarely miss left or right

But above all they are consistent. They consistantly hit the sweet spot, and they have a stock shot that they can produce any time at will - be it a low fade or a big high hook

[Ty_Webb]

First up, my definition of a great ball striker is different from most of you. To my mind, ball striking is all about how well you strike the ball. i.e. the quality of contact. I know a guy who hits it very straight, not very far and hits a lot of fairways and a lot of greens. He's got a solid short game and is a great putter and I think he's currently a +1 back in the UK, so a very good golfer. His ball-striking to me isn't that great though. Sure he hits it straight and is never in trouble, but he basically dogs it round. On the other hand, I know a different guy who absolutely stripes the pants off it. Hits the centre of the club every single time. Just it isn't always square at the point of impact. He strikes it great, but is wild. He fits my definition of a great ball-striker a lot better than the first guy.

Incidentally this also fits in with Tiger Woods being the best ball-striker I've ever seen. He may spray it with his driver from time to time (a lot less so lately), but by god does he hit it solid.

Oh, and I played the black at Bethpage in April this year. Second hole, caned a 3-wood up the middle with a little draw. Left myself 130 in up the hill into a slight breeze. Hit a smooth 9-iron that flew straight over the flag, over the green about five yards over the back in the fringe. From there, I duffed a chip, duffed a chip, duffed a chip, duffed a chip onto the front edge and two-putted for an 8. Yes, you can strike it well and score highly. Especially if you have a certain anxiety related problem.

[zmaz]

[quote name='anth' post='2004908' date='Oct 13 2009, 09:55 PM']A good ballstriker does not miss with his irons, and when he does it is either short or long. Good ballstrikers very rarely miss left or right

But above all they are consistent. They consistantly hit the sweet spot, and they have a stock shot that they can produce any time at will - be it a low fade or a big high hook[/quote]

I think you have this backward. Great ballstrikers, at least in my opinion, control their distances. Everybody misses on direction, at least a bit.

[anth]

^^^ Hmmm... fair point.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there may be other factors for missing short or long - you might get a flier out of the rough for example. But a shot that is left or right of the target, is often the result of a faulty swing - a good ballstriker for me is someone who just hits it straight more than anything, therefore they are in control of their swing

[randomhero1090]

[quote name='im a doughball' post='2004001' date='Oct 13 2009, 03:00 PM'][quote name='randomhero1090' post='2003657' date='Oct 13 2009, 11:26 AM']Well, what's "long" these days. I play a "classic" lofted set of clubs with my PW starting at 47*. I hit it 135 with comfort. 8i 155, 6i 175. My father-in-law hits it just as long as I do, but his PW starts at 45* and each club is 2* stronger in loft....[/quote]


Whats classic about a jacked up 47* PW? Classic lofts would be more like 50/51* pw, with a 45/46* 9 iron.
[/quote]

That's why I put "long" and "classic" in quotes. My 47* set is still strong compared to sets of yesterday. But 47* is "strong" compared to more current offerings.


In any event, distance doesn't make you a great ballstriker. Solid contact and shotmaking make you a good ballstriker. The rest of the game is course management and putting. Combine the 2 and that leads to quality golf.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Puppetmaster' post='2004609' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:44 PM'][quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2004392' date='Oct 13 2009, 05:55 PM'][quote name='Puppetmaster' post='2004273' date='Oct 13 2009, 02:04 PM'][quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2004236' date='Oct 13 2009, 04:48 PM']Can a nine (9) index be a solid ball striker - intermittently with potential? Can someone that plays 5-8 rounds with 7's and 8's on the card extrapolate to scores in the 70 if playing regularly. Reminds me of the guy that says I had a big month last month so he thinks he will earn big money for the coming years. Bear in mind a large percentage of the better ball strikers (or low amateur/pro) score results from self-control, proper thinking and consistent ball striking. Let me throw in another aspect that doesn't compute; benefiting from a club heads forgiving nature realizing distance.[/quote]

Please don't get me wrong, I wasn't disagreeing with the general point, I was in agreement actually, but sort of seeking advice/comments in a self deprecating way. That's why I said I was a "solid" ball striker in quotes, not a "good" ballstriker, which was the term of debate here. Anyway, I'm in the financial world, so I know the dangers of projections, so no worries there. But I did mean that in actuality, when I don't have 7s and 8s, I DO shoot in the 70s, but whatever, this is the internet, so no one cares. Anyway, that's also why I threw in the mental aspect of it for the sake of discussion. It was my way of starting a discussion on a slightly different animal, someone with perceived (or misperceived) potential to get better. Don't worry, no offense taken because my post was a ramble anyway, much like this one. Haha.

PS - anyway, this is what I get for spending too much time on an Internet message board while at work...
[/quote]

A solid ball striker has a wear spot on the screw, and a good ball striker has no noticeable wear to speak of; of course head material plays a part in how noticeable. Anyways, I find it hard to believe someone only plays 5-8 times a year following the rules posting scores in the 70's. I know a few x-college players with notable swings that don't play regularly yet they still have the college game head, and only post in the 80's.

[/quote]

If I'm a 9, going by most indexing systems, that means the better half of my rounds are between 7 and 11 over (assuming [u]generously[/u] +/- 2 shot variance an average of +9). This leaves the other half worse than 11 over, so just assuming some basic proportions, less than 25% of the time I'd be shooting in the high 70s, but mostly I'd be low to mid 80s, which jives with what you are saying. I'd like to think I'm entitled to some good days out too . I know, very oversimplified math, but I hope you see my point. I'm not sure why you think I have something to prove here because I don't.
[/quote]

I don't play math games because doing so is akin to making assumptions. I've been playing this game for 20yrs.. started at 40yrs old, single digit inside of five years and now pushing towards scratch on some difficult courses. I don't practice or play (1-3 times per wk) as much as I use to. I have a history of team and amateur competition but now-a-days only hit a small bucket before I tee off, and still without touching driver/3wd from 6700 yds post mid 70's to 81; that's how I keep my iron ball striking sharp. In other words, I know a bit about what's possible if someone has a work ethic like mine of days past, supported by athletic ability.

Everyone is entitled to good days, but what you're claiming makes no sense; based only on the text you've used to describe what you're doing. Its commonly known that any given day someone that practices and plays regularly can shift 10 strokes in either direction from their norm. It comes down to not believing you're that much of a natural golfer; only playing 5-8 times per year.

I don't believe you or anyone else has anything to prove, least online; in person that's another story.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='anth' post='2004908' date='Oct 13 2009, 06:55 PM']A good ballstriker does not miss with his irons, and when he does it is either short or long. Good ballstrikers very rarely miss left or right

But above all they are consistent. They consistantly hit the sweet spot, and they have a stock shot that they can produce any time at will - be it a low fade or a big high hook[/quote]

You use the words "they", "short" and "long" ... So what you're saying is if I pull 6i (which is 165 to 175 carry "hard") to a target of 165yds, and come up short at 155yds, I've still nutted it? No way... to nut the ball not only does the golfer have to hit the ball using the planned face angle, he has to apply the planned swing speed which influences distance. Say I have 150yds to a pin and have a low hanging tree between my ball and the green. Using 3i (190-205 club) using the properly swing speed I have to strike the ball using the planned angle of impact to get the ball to only travel 3' off the deck in the air for 140yds, land and run to the pin.

If the ball went the planned "distance" but varied left or right 20yds then it it was nutted. Hitting it short or long means either you didn't hit it, or surprised yourself by hitting it way better then normal; long left or right means no direction or distance control. Tigers a ball striker - I can't recount how many times I've heard it said his ball striking is off due to being short or long.

[boo radley]

[quote name='bscinstnct'][quote name='Pepperturbo']

Let me qualify a solid ball striker is someone that nuts the ball 98% of the time, controls distance and trajectory but misses it left and right.[/quote]

Are you a good ball striker?
[/quote]

I'm guessing "yes," given his honesty about his struggles with the game, and being otherwise forthcoming in admitting swing-flaws, but he's probably too modest to say so.

I'm more interested in the 98% figure and how it's calculated. Spraying 7-irons in a perfect arc is good ball-striking provided they're exactly the same distance?

I think it's like porn -- I can't define good ball-striking, but I know it when I see it.

[Pepperturbo]

If you're speaking the 98% number I used; it's guesstimating. Nobody's maintains 99 or 100%, whether good amateur or star tour player like Tiger, Steve Stricker or Pat Perez (commonly said on tour to be a great ball strikers); and I shouldn't forget Tim Clark's outstanding display of ball striking during his final match of the Presidents Cup.

I know it when the club head strikes the ball and it takes the planned trajectory going the expected distance.

[anth]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2005829' date='Oct 15 2009, 03:12 AM']You use the words "they", "short" and "long" ... So what you're saying is if I pull 6i (which is 165 to 175 carry "hard") to a target of 165yds, and come up short at 155yds, I've still nutted it? No way... to nut the ball not only does the golfer have to hit the ball using the planned face angle, he has to apply the planned swing speed which influences distance. Say I have 150yds to a pin and have a low hanging tree between my ball and the green. Using 3i (190-205 club) using the properly swing speed I have to strike the ball using the planned angle of impact to get the ball to only travel 3' off the deck in the air for 140yds, land and run to the pin.

If the ball went the planned "distance" but varied left or right 20yds then it it was nutted. Hitting it short or long means either you didn't hit it, or surprised yourself by hitting it way better then normal; long left or right means no direction or distance control. Tigers a ball striker - I can't recount how many times I've heard it said his ball striking is off due to being short or long.[/quote]

Did you miss my next post where I said someone might miss short or long because they may or may not get a flier out of the rough?

And I don't get the point you're trying to make. Nutting it 20 yards left or right of the intended target is a good shot now?

All I'm trying to say is good ballstrikers know how to hit the ball straight at their target.

[Pepperturbo]

Yes, I did miss the flier post, sorry. Still, hitting the ball out of rough is a crap shoot even for the best ball strikers; in the fairway or off the tee that's were ball strikers shine.

Good ball strikers hit the ball using the sweet spot; but they don't always hit the ball as straight as they want; reason I included 20 left or right, they realize the clubs distance. Being off the nut by as much as 1/1000 of an inch can translate into planed distance but move the ball right or left by 20, depending whether its towards the heal or toe.

Not including variable shots from the rough, what they don't do is typically hit high or low on the face loosing distance and they know how far a club goes because they hit the ball on the screw, unlike many tour players and most amateurs. Most amateurs are taken by surprise when they nut a shot, flying the green exaggerates that clubs normal distance. The distance difference comes from hitting it on the screw vs. head forgiveness helping to realize close to planned yardage.

Its such fractions that translate to no matter how straight we want to hit the ball its not straight, its left or right, but distance was realized because the club head was delived to the ball using consistent swing mechanics and SS.

[bscinstnct]

The arbiters of what constitutes good ball striking are missing the point.

What is odd is that they seem intent on telling other adults that they are not good ball strikers.

Lame.

When someone says that they are a good ball striker but that their short game and putting are holding them back from breaking
90 or 85 or 80, just take them at their word.

[b]The point they are making is the disparity between full swings and short game.[/b]

Take me for example.

I can hit 10 GIR on a 7000 yard course. What should my score be? What would yours be?

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006647' date='Oct 14 2009, 06:02 PM']When someone says that they are a good ball striker but that their short game and putting are holding them back from breaking
90 or 85 or 80, just take them at their word.

[b]The point they are making is the disparity between full swings and short game.[/b][/quote]
Thanks for saying this...and most of the time, according to Dave Pelz, the short game is holding the person back. Even if for those that don't strike the ball well.

[boo radley]

[quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006647' date='Oct 14 2009, 07:02 PM']When someone says that they are a good ball striker but that their short game and putting are holding them back from breaking
90 or 85 or 80, just take them at their word.

[b]The point they are making is the disparity between full swings and short game.[/b]

Take me for example.

I can hit 10 GIR on a 7000 yard course. What should my score be? What would yours be?[/quote]

Except statistics don't support your argument. GIR is, in fact, an incredibly accurate predictor of golf score ( I didn't believe this either, in fact). If you hit 10 GIR, you should be shooting around a 75.

Do you?

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='boo radley' post='2006818' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:04 PM'][quote name='bscinstnct' post='2006647' date='Oct 14 2009, 07:02 PM']When someone says that they are a good ball striker but that their short game and putting are holding them back from breaking
90 or 85 or 80, just take them at their word.

[b]The point they are making is the disparity between full swings and short game.[/b]

Take me for example.

I can hit 10 GIR on a 7000 yard course. What should my score be? What would yours be?[/quote]

Except statistics don't support your argument. GIR is, in fact, an incredibly accurate predictor of golf score ( I didn't believe this either, in fact). If you hit 10 GIR, you should be shooting around a 75.

Do you?
[/quote]

I hit 10 greens in 4 of my 16 rounds this year. And my average score in those rounds was 83 and change.

My average score is 87.5.

I have yet to break 80.

[Pepperturbo]

As much as I want to take their word, and "BS.." is right to an extent; good ball striking by definition equates to finding the green or being very close; near pin high leaving a chip and 1 putt or GIR and 2 putts. Yes, someone can "stink" at their short game and putting but that's really subjective and not the "norm" presuming they have solid swing mechanics.

Good golf, or consistently playing to a single digit is a package deal; if its not then he's really a 12-15. I don't claim to have seen it "all" but know good ball strikers hit the ball just as well using wedges, where they might be errant costing a stroke is with driver. Yet, those I seen in competition can ham and egg it to get the ball in the hole because swing mechanics for the most part are consistent; they also do a reasonable job of controlling club distance and using course mgt which contributes to lowering index.

I've also never seen someone "constantly" hit 10 greens of 18, and trash their score and index because of the short game; that's not to say it couldn't happen now and again but not regularly. Least that's my view.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2006883' date='Oct 14 2009, 08:33 PM']As much as I want to take their word, and "BS.." is right to an extent; good ball striking by definition equates to finding the green or being very close; near pin high leaving a chip and 1 putt or GIR and 2 putts. Yes, someone can "stink" at their short game and putting but that's really subjective and not the "norm" presuming they have solid swing mechanics.

Good golf, or consistently playing to a single digit is a package deal; if its not then he's really a 12-15. I don't claim to have seen it "all" but know good ball strikers hit the ball just as well using wedges, where they might be errant costing a stroke is with driver. Yet, those I seen in competition can ham and egg it to get the ball in the hole because swing mechanics for the most part are consistent; they also do a reasonable job of controlling club distance and using course mgt which contributes to lowering index.

I've also never seen someone "constantly" hit 10 greens of 18, and trash their score and index because of the short game; that's not to say it couldn't happen now and again but not regularly. Least that's my view.[/quote]

I defy your post.

In the spirit of your avatar.

God Bless.