Putter Wars

[potuna]

[quote name='mister2cool' post='2080768' date='Nov 23 2009, 01:52 PM'][quote name='potuna' post='2080750' date='Nov 23 2009, 01:43 PM']The funny part is no one cares what brand of driver, fairways, utilities or wedges you game. But that flatstick takes on an almost religious effect. Like the great Rodney King said "can't we all just get along".[/quote]

What yo talking about Willy? If you trash talk about my 10 yr old TM driver, I'll see you outside!!!

haha J/K
[/quote]

You want a piece of me, lets go!
haha

[Oaks]

Will,

I am with you...

As Rick Pitino once said... "The Negativity in this town sucks" [size=1](no Rick you made a horrible NBA Coach in Boston)[/size]

[Ian Nersesian]

[quote name='TM golf guy 182' post='2080382' date='Nov 23 2009, 10:24 AM']What is up with all of the negativity lately? Condescending answers from people in the know, holier than thou attitudes, and no real discussions anymore. I've seen a lot of hot air being blown by people from ALL sides. Heck, you can't even make a post anymore without someone trying to disprove you or take you down. Seems like there is a hidden agenda out there from lots of people. You guys act like Scotty, or T.P., or Bob murdered your families in front of you with putters. It is getting old people.[/quote]


Well, not to rehash an old fight but aren't you the same guy who started the "Classic Mini" thread on TCC?

It will never end unfortunately. As much as I hate to admit it some good might come of it. It was threads like yours that got me to visit other sites and check out other stuff. I think you're right though, it's idiotic to put carbon and stainless tell ahead of friendships.

[TM golf guy]

[quote name='Ian Nersesian' post='2080950' date='Nov 23 2009, 02:36 PM'][quote name='TM golf guy 182' post='2080382' date='Nov 23 2009, 10:24 AM']What is up with all of the negativity lately? Condescending answers from people in the know, holier than thou attitudes, and no real discussions anymore. I've seen a lot of hot air being blown by people from ALL sides. Heck, you can't even make a post anymore without someone trying to disprove you or take you down. Seems like there is a hidden agenda out there from lots of people. You guys act like Scotty, or T.P., or Bob murdered your families in front of you with putters. It is getting old people.[/quote]


Well, not to rehash an old fight but aren't you the same guy who started the "Classic Mini" thread on TCC?

It will never end unfortunately. As much as I hate to admit it some good might come of it. It was threads like yours that got me to visit other sites and check out other stuff. I think you're right though, it's idiotic to put carbon and stainless tell ahead of friendships.
[/quote]

There is a difference between asking questions and talking trash.

Take the thread that Venno started for example. He started that topic out asking good questions, and then it got out of hand.

[Smack Daddy]

[quote name='kevcarter ' post='2080645' date='Nov 23 2009, 12:52 PM']Man, if Scotty was a Stack&Tilt'er, this place would burn down! [/quote]

Ahhhhhh man, I hate it when pop comes out my nose.

That was good.

[Smack Daddy]

[quote name='TM golf guy 182' post='2080382' date='Nov 23 2009, 10:24 AM']You guys act like Scotty, or T.P., or Bob murdered your families in front of you with putters.[/quote]

Seinfeld - The Subway (with slight wording alterations )

[font="Courier New"][size=2]Women: So, do you work for one of those Scotties?

George: They wish. I hate the Scotties. Hate them with a passion. Scotties killed my father.

Woman: Really?

George: Well, they hurt him bad. Really hurt his feelings. It's a long story. I- I don't like

to talk about it, but I swore then that I would never buy a Scotty. See, all they care about


is money. I'm about more than money.

[/size][/font]

[Guia]

The problem is that some think it is necessary to tear down people and equipment that they don't like or agree with. It isn't necessary to be hostile and belittle what you do not agree with.

Opinions are always different from person to person, it doesn't make the other person an enemy. It isn't necessary to disrespect to show a different opinion, its immature.

[Golfingbanker]

I will admit to being a part of a few wars dealing with a specific company, but my comments were made in defense of what I thought was pure venom. I am not just a fan but know the owners personally and consider them friends. I would never have a problem defending a friend when I felt they were being treated bad.

Having admitted I have a problem....I will also pledge to move forward and not flame again!

[obsessedgolfer]

My question to you guys is why whenever someone asks a question for example "Which Scotty should I get?" or even "What cameron fits me the best" people always say "I would look into one of the custom makers like Mills,Betti,Machine, or Byron". I dont have a problem with those manufacturers but if someone wants a cameron please answer the OPs question. I cant imagine the heat I would get in a thread if I suggested Cameron over the other manufacturers in a thread about custom putters.

[chickenpotpie]

Personally I kind of enjoy a good flaming every now and then. It spices things up. What sucks is when they take over a good informative thread and gets causes it to get shut down. What I find most interesting is how some people react to criticism about their favorite brand, as though you had shot their dog.

The other thing I've noticed here and even at my work is how people interpret written words differently. Emails can be read differently by different people. One mod here, who shall go nameless (hint, he's a lefty), is a frequent offender. I always chuckle when folks get riled up by him because they don't understand the tongue in cheek humor (which doesn't come across all that well in written form).

[funkyfedora]

[quote name='obsessedgolfer' post='2081173' date='Nov 23 2009, 04:24 PM']My question to you guys is why whenever someone asks a question for example "Which Scotty should I get?" or even "What cameron fits me the best" people always say "I would look into one of the custom makers like Mills,Betti,Machine, or Byron". I dont have a problem with those manufacturers but if someone wants a cameron please answer the OPs question. I cant imagine the heat I would get in a thread if I suggested Cameron over the other manufacturers in a thread about custom putters.[/quote]


I don't think I have done this when they asked for "What scotty should I get?" but I have when they are up in the air between brands. It is always nice to know there is more out there... I have rolled a few cameron's before and have no grudge against the putters. He is a great putter maker. An amazing marketer. But as a man, I don't have a lot of respect for him. Would I game one of his putters? Sure. Will I be a diehard fan? No.

[stage1350]

[quote name='obsessedgolfer' post='2081173' date='Nov 23 2009, 04:24 PM']My question to you guys is why whenever someone asks a question for example "Which Scotty should I get?" or even "What cameron fits me the best" people always say "I would look into one of the custom makers like Mills,Betti,Machine, or Byron". I dont have a problem with those manufacturers but if someone wants a cameron please answer the OPs question. I cant imagine the heat I would get in a thread if I suggested Cameron over the other manufacturers in a thread about custom putters.[/quote]

Depending on what the person is looking for, they might not be able to get what they want from Cameron. That becomes a very realistic possibility depending on that person's budget. At that point, I don't see a problem with suggesting another manufacturer.

What I don't get is why anyone would want to be stuck in one camp? I own putters from at least a dozen different brands. While I have one primary gamer, any putter that will put more balls in the hole is going to kick it out of the bag.

Feel free to post about Cameron in a thread about another manufacturer if you feel so inclined. If you truly believe that you are offering a better alternative, why would you not give your opinion?

[LSeca]

[quote name='chickenpotpie' post='2081181' date='Nov 23 2009, 05:29 PM']Personally I kind of enjoy a good flaming every now and then. It spices things up. What sucks is when they take over a good informative thread and gets causes it to get shut down. What I find most interesting is how some people react to criticism about their favorite brand, as though you had shot their dog.

The other thing I've noticed here and even at my work is how people interpret written words differently. Emails can be read differently by different people. One mod here, who shall go nameless (hint, he's a lefty), is a frequent offender. I always chuckle when folks get riled up by him because they don't understand the tongue in cheek humor (which doesn't come across all that well in written form).[/quote]


This is a good post to a good thread. I don't mind a little heated debate either, some just get too bent out of shape and can't handle other's veiws. Putters are such a personal thing, people get too attatched and it can get out of hand. Remarks are oftern twisted and poorly understood or even not well written to begin with, easy to happen on a message board. I see this happening alot with regards to SC putters, as they seem to be the most coveted from the collector crowd. There are those who will never understand the idea of putter as wall hanger, and the enthusiasm from those who do are not well recieved. To each his own, but it just seems like these posts bring the most heat out of people.


Anyway, good thread Will...hope the point gets through to the membership.

[HOHO]

Hi , I'm Dan , and I collect Camerons

To be honest ... I don't post a lot on golfwrx because this site as well as another , seems very ANTI Cameron .... Maybe that's just my perception though !
I only collect Scotty Cameron putters , and I really couldn't care what others think of his work , or him for that matter...
Maybe that's why I choose not to get into it with people !

BTW ... There should be NO SUCH THING as WALLHANGERS , regardless of who made it !

<------- gamer

[Mr Pants]

I have frequently come to this site for insightful information and opinions for a while now, but only recently registered, so I realize what a wealth of info this place is. But this kind of thing happening at such a frequent rate can't be good for new membership. The last thing someone who has never been here before wants is to click on a topic for useful info and find themselves in the middle of a flame war.

That said, I believe contradicting opinions only lead to more useful information. If all we heard was good news about every piece of equipment we saw, we'd all probably be spending more money than we already are.

[weaver93]

I never have one bit of trouble with the threads that are obvious rants. Sometimes they are interesting, even entertaining, but nothing that I would loose sleep over. I do think sometimes we get too personal and people get roughed up for what ever reason. However, I do not think there is any room for personal attacks.

I think the sensation we get sitting behind the screen of a computer gives us the feeling of superiority and power through anonymity. If we were face to face I think things would be different. Perhaps worse in some situations, but I think more thought would go in to what was said.

The one thing that does make me feel bad is when you have someone new or relatively new and they post pics of some work they did or custom putter they bought and someone feels compelled to perform a smack down on it. I have seen some snide remarks and some just plain bashing. If someone posts a new putter, or anything for that matter, and is obviously proud of it, and says something like “what do you think” they aren’t looking to get blind sided. They are just doing some boasting like the rest of us from time to time. There are many people here, all of different means and tastes. That doesn’t make anyone any better or less than the other, Just different. If you don’t like something, then don’t respond. Laugh to yourself, hysterically if you like, but let it go. It will save us all some grief and maybe, in the end, some friends.

[albatrosser]

I guess I've missed the "flaming" and the good fights... I rarely look in the flatstick section, mainly because it doesn't matter to me what the name is on a putter... it matters what that putter does when I put it in my hands.

I paid what I thought was good money for a Rife Barbados a year or so ago. I thought it was cool because it was one of the BLACK ones which was supposedly "unusual" at the time. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I loved the way the ball felt when it came off the face. Liked it well enough that I found a Martinique that I paid a whopping $25 for. It was an inch shorter and it improved my putting. Isn't that what it's all about?

I've seen some freakin' AMAZING looking putters on this site. Camerons, RJB's, and numerous others (please don't be a hater because I didn't mention YOUR brand). I sometimes laugh to myself because I could never see myself paying that much for ANY putter, unless there was some sort of guarantee it would take a BUNCH of strokes off my score. Newsflash... that ain't happening.

This is a terrific site with SO MUCH INFORMATION that it's almost scary. Why someone would hate on someone because of their equipment is beyond me. Hate me because I'm a better golfer, or because I can hit a draw or fade on command, or whatever, but hating because you like one putter better than another? Honestly I think some folks have to justify in their own mind why they spent $100's of dollars on whatever their "brand du jour" might be.

It's entertainment if nothing else.

[dannybsj]

Well a beetle and a porsche can both go the speed limit but which would you rather drive

[albatrosser]

[quote name='dannybsj' post='2081645' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:12 PM']Well a beetle and a porsche can both go the speed limit but which would you rather drive[/quote]

well I've never owned a beetle. Owned a porsche and 5 or 6 BMW's. Wish I had the money back I spent on each of them because when it's said and done, they're "transportation". Each works equally well to do what they're supposed to do. When you've flown a Tomcat, everything else is just transportation.

Would a $500 putter make my bag look better? To some, yes. Is that important to me? Nope. I realize it is to some, and I don't fault them for it... again, my point is, why fight over the brand of putter? Do you somehow think that having a SC, or a RJB, or a (insert favorite high $$ putter name here) makes you a better golfer? I seriously doubt that it does, just like having a porsche doesn't make you a better driver than the guy with the beetle.

I still don't get it. Enlighten me, please.

[dannybsj]

Well you are correct its all about mostly prestge. I play an oddyssey myself, which is closer to the beetle, but i think that there is merit in being confident that you have the best putter you can get, however the protos and the dolled up ones are purely prestige

[xxio]

[quote name='albatrosser' post='2081674' date='Nov 24 2009, 10:27 AM'][quote name='dannybsj' post='2081645' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:12 PM']Well a beetle and a porsche can both go the speed limit but which would you rather drive[/quote]

[i][color="#000080"]well I've never owned a beetle. Owned a porsche and 5 or 6 BMW's. Wish I had the money back I spent on each of them because when it's said and done, they're "transportation". Each works equally well to do what they're supposed to do. When you've flown a Tomcat, everything else is just transportation.

Would a $500 putter make my bag look better? To some, yes. Is that important to me? Nope. I realize it is to some, and I don't fault them for it... again, my point is, why fight over the brand of putter? Do you somehow think that having a SC, or a RJB, or a (insert favorite high $$ putter name here) makes you a better golfer? I seriously doubt that it does, just like having a porsche doesn't make you a better driver than the guy with the beetle.

I still don't get it. Enlighten me, please.[/color][/i]
[/quote]


IMHO It's just part of ownership. Whether it is a car, plane, or a house in the mountains or at the beach people like what they own and have the right to be proud of it as long as they don't put anyone else down.

You did buy the Porsche and 5 BMWs instead of a beetle or a Hyundai so at some point you were proud of the things you owned right? I wish I had the money to buy a Carerra S and say it was just transportation:)

[dannybsj]

maybe the economy has changed people's priorities some

[albatrosser]

Again, I have no problem with people being "proud" of what they have. Everyone should be proud of what they have obtained. I also don't care when it's not really pride, but more bragging.

I didn't buy any of those cars for pride purposes. Honestly, I bought them because I was young and dumb and thought it would be impressive to family and friends, and that they'd go "oooohhhhhh". When in reality even if they did "ooohhhh" and "awwwwwww", later they snickered about how much money I spent on something that was simply transportation.

The only other thing on this forum that I've seen people get heated about is if you dare say anything bad about Tiger.

Just my $.02

[Eddie]

Will, I hear you on your sentiments, but I think it really just speaks to how passionate people have become about their preferences in putters.

Several years back, there was not this strong presence of all these puttermakers. Couple that with this site who tries its best to allow all parties to speak on an equal plane, and I mean it's bound to happen.

I would assume that very few people that are on this site act the way they do online in real life. I like to look at these putters wars in a similar fashion people look at sports fans. College football rivalries, yankees vs. redsox, redskins vs. cowboys; you put two fans in a room, and it's bound to get heated, often resulting in people crossing the line; but what can we do?

Car forums are this same way, the porsche vs lambo vs ferrari vs vipers vs z06s... brand loyalty arguments are often followed by a lot of arguing, personal attacks, but normally settle themselves in an official race, then the cycle starts up again. Unfortunately in this case, there really isn't an end game.

The more discussion, more argument, promotion vs. defamation: the more information out there, the easier it is for the consumer to make a clear decision who to trust their dollars with.

Re: the utility of high priced putters vs. basic options: I can respect someone who wants to spend $50,000 or $5 on a putter, I may not agree with their reasons, but bottom line, it's not really my place to change their attitudes or perceptions or proselytize them to convert to seeing the world the way I do.

[LSeca]

[quote name='Eddie' post='2081760' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:59 PM']Re: the utility of high priced putters vs. basic options: I can respect someone who wants to spend $50,000 or $5 on a putter, I may not agree with their reasons, but bottom line, it's not really my place to change their attitudes or perceptions or proselytize them to convert to seeing the world the way I do.[/quote]

Quoted for prosperity.

Eddie, if we all thought this way there would be no need for this thread...good summary.

[SCOTT4099]

I think some people who have negative views on some putters that sell for big $ is a good thing. Should we all just drink the milled, handmade, prototype, for tour use only, limited edition, and tour authentic, kool aid? At the very least it is entertaining.

That being said I will chime in about my Cameron custom shop experience. I bought a studio select mid slant. Sent it in to have the weights changed heavier. They installed the new weights, kept the stock weights that I paid for, and shipped it back. I called them and they said that is the policy.

So, I bought a putter for 300 bucks including stock weights, sent it in and paid for heavier weights, for them to keep the original ones. That is theft in my book. There was no prior mention of this. Great service, huh!

It is called Cameron's Custom Shop. So, if he is not aware of this practice, then he should be, or change the name to Titleist Putter Custom Shop and let me bash their services...

[xxio]

[quote name='albatrosser' post='2081733' date='Nov 24 2009, 10:50 AM']Again, I have no problem with people being "proud" of what they have. Everyone should be proud of what they have obtained. I also don't care when it's not really pride, but more bragging.

I didn't buy any of those cars for pride purposes. Honestly, I bought them because I was young and dumb and thought it would be impressive to family and friends, and that they'd go "oooohhhhhh". When in reality even if they did "ooohhhh" and "awwwwwww", later they snickered about how much money I spent on something that was simply transportation.

The only other thing on this forum that I've seen people get heated about is if you dare say anything bad about Tiger.

Just my $.02[/quote]



I agree.

I also think pride is the ugly step brother of bragging. Those "oohhs" and "aahhs" did make you proud then. You just realized after what the real score was.

I agree on the TW thing as well.

I was asked what would you do if you got to play golf with Tiger. I said i would throw my clubs, play slow, spit, and swear just to see his reactions. Hopefully I'd still get an autograph after

[biscuity]

[quote name='SCOTT4099' post='2081872' date='Nov 23 2009, 08:06 PM']I think some people who have negative views on some putters that sell for big $ is a good thing. Should we all just drink the milled, handmade, prototype, for tour use only, limited edition, and tour authentic, kool aid? At the very least it is entertaining.

That being said I will chime in about my Cameron custom shop experience. I bought a studio select mid slant. Sent it in to have the weights changed heavier. They installed the new weights, kept the stock weights that I paid for, and shipped it back. I called them and they said that is the policy.

So, I bought a putter for 300 bucks including stock weights, sent it in and paid for heavier weights, for them to keep the original ones. That is theft in my book. There was no prior mention of this. Great service, huh!

It is called Cameron's Custom Shop. So, if he is not aware of this practice, then he should be, or change the name to Titleist Putter Custom Shop and let me bash their services...

[/quote]

The info about the weights is on their site, just click on the question mark in the section. Or you could ask here on the forum and people would give you suggestions on the best way to prepare your putter prior to sending it in.

[attachment=499984:weights.jpg]

[xxio]

I find that strange.

They think it is too complicated for us to take them out that is why we cannot buy the weights separately but have to send the entire putter in. Akin to "tuning a car" IIRC.

HOWEVER If we want to keep the weights we have to take it out ourselves, doesn't expose us to the risk/complication they were trying to avert to begin with?

Why not just give the weights back? You paid for them unless the "send your putter for a weight change" in is some kind of trading program so they can reuse the weights later on or give it to some foundation for kids that uses exclusive interchangeable weights.

That being said it is Scotty's world and he can do/charge what he wants. It is up to the buyer whether he agrees or not.

[SCOTT4099]

I sent the putter in over a year and a half ago and this page was not in exisitance then, probably from the many complaints.... "weights cannot be returned" they should just tape them to the inside of the overpriced box that they send MY putter back to me in, not rocket science. Though they will still work on your putter if you removed the weights prior yourself, and how do we do that without the one of a kind tool without damaging the putter?...They are still keeping something that someone else paid for...