Golf Stat Software

[hbear]

[quote name='DaveLeeNC' date='24 March 2010 - 04:03 PM' timestamp='1269468229' post='2338525']
[size="2"]I do this in MS Access (2003). At this point the 'system' has 6 years of data and at least 100 queries that I don't even know what they do any more :-). So it is about 75MB and not easily mailable.

But here are the key tables as a place to start. If you really think that some sample stuff would be helpful I'll see if I can strip it down to something transferrable, although MS stuff has this way of getting big even when empty. And surprisingly I am unable to copy/paste the design view of any of the table from Access to anywhere - irritating.

The key table is tShotData, which contains one record per hole as

Date (primary key)

Hole (primary key)

1st Shot Distance

1st Shot Club

2nd Shot Distance

2nd Shot Club

2nd Special (the optional field like B for bunker, etc)

same for 3rd through 6th shot

Putt1

Putt2

Putt3

Putt4

I use a MS Access form to populate the table. The form increments the hole, holds/inputs the date, pulls the 1st shot distance from the 'Holes Table' (which you can over-ride, of course) and calculates the hole score which is kind of a check/balance for input errors.

The other table that gets updated each round is::

tRounds

Date (primary key)
Course (4 character ID for course/tees)
Temperature (I added that recently, just for grins)
Other Comments (to be used as I see fit)

　

A couple of system support tables are:

tHoles
CourseID (primary key)
Hole Number (primary key)
Hole Length
Hole Par

　

tCourses

CourseID (primary key)
slope
rating
par (although this is redundant and not really required)

　

tConstants

a few constants that are handy in doing calculations like maximum up/down distance, maximum short putt length (see Scoring Zone Putting), etc. I started out hard-coding these and was instantly sorry about that.

This is what I track in my key 'output query' (qBRSummary - By Round Summary) - at least the stuff that can be calculated from what I have listed so far.

-Date
-CourseID
-Number of Putts
-Net Putting (more about this later)
-Scoring Zone Putting (how I putted on all putts from 8' or less)
-Lag Putting Error
-# of 3 putts
-Score Against Par
-GIR's
-Birdies/Better
-Double Bogeys/Worse
-Up/Downs
-Sand Save Percentage
-Error At Par (how far from the cup after 1 stroke on a par 3, 2 on a par 4
or 3 on a Par 5) - this number has a stronger correlation with
Score Against Par than any other thing I calculate
-Handicap (what would your index be if you shot this score on this course 20 straight times - no T score adjustments)
-Fairways
-Birdie Opportunities - Birdie putts of 15' or less

　

Those numbers can all be calculated using the listed tables. But kind of the point of this is how much you can customize things.

For example I have another table that describes holes that I call "Driving Distance Comparison Holes". These are par 4's (occasionally par 5's) that are straight, although they might be uphill or downhill. But I occasionally recalculate my driving distance average on each of these holes and on each round my system compares my actual driving distance with the previously calculated average. This gives me a good idea of where my driving distance is going these days.

The next concept is VERY important to me and drives some additional calculations. And this is the concept of 'Par Putting'. I have another table with 99 records (one for each distance from the cup from 1' to 99'). The second entry in the table is my own opinion of what I should average to hole out from each of these distances.

For 1' and 2' it is 1.0 (should make all my 1 and 2 footers)

For 3' it is 1.1 (miss 1 of 10 3 footers)

For 5' it is 1.5 (make half my 5 footers)

For 20' it is 2.0 (equal number of hole outs and 3 putts)

For 50' it is 2.25

For 75' it is 2.47

And so on - mostly it is linear interpolation between a few key points and is just my own opinion of what "OK putting" is for my game. I average around 1 stroke over par putting for all my rounds.

So every hole has a net putting score. A good chip to 3' and make that 3 footer is -0.1 net putting. 2 putts from 20' is 0.0 net putting, 2 putts from 50' is -0.25 net putting while a 3 putt from that distance is 0.75 net putting.

So every round has a net putting score (sum of all the hole net putting scores). If I take my actual number of putts and subtract out the net putting score I get what my round would have been with 'a standard level of putting'. Sometimes 34 putts is not bad and sometimes it is horrible. I find this very helpful. An interesting side-note. My index tends to go up around 2 strokes every winter. 65% of that is putting - would never have guessed that.

The next thing I do is to take all my up/down opportunities and ignore whether or not I actually got up/down. But I add in net putting for where-ever I ended up after the chip/putt. So a chip to 5' is a 50% up/down (as I make 50% of my 5 footers per the table). A chip to 20' or worse is a 0% up/down and a chip to 2' or less is a 100% up/down, etc. This allows me to evaluate my chipping even when I am putting exceptionally well (or badly).

When I want to do timeline kind of analysis I copy my qBRSummary query (or whatever) results into Excel and do it there.

You never know what useful info you might get from this stuff. A few years ago I considered adding a gap wedge to my club set. It was pretty easy to go in and find all the shots that I would most likely have hit with a gap wedge had I owned one (was hitting a 3/4 PW instead). I found that I hit those pretty darn good, so I didn't get a gap wedge (at that time). I now have a gap wedge, but don't have a PW - same principle.

I recently built a new set of irons (Wishon 560MC's) and it seemed like I was hitting the 7i better than I have EVER hit any iron before (never had that feeling with any other club). It was easy to go into the data and see that, yea verily, I hit that club better than any club that I have ever hit before. I still don't understand why, however.

Like I said if you need more specific info (like my database) I will see if I can strip it down to something sendable (as opposed to the 75MB that it is right now.

dave

[/size]
[/quote]

Sounds very similar to how GStat Pro works...GStat just having a more user friendly interface, and additional analysis built into fuctionality. Pretty much tracks and breaks down ANYTHING you want to...even air temp/green conditions/type of round/etc.

http://www.gstatpro.com/index.php

I have 6 years of data, nearly 600 rounds, and my .mdb file is 2.17 megs.

For $25, it's hard to beat...especially considering the level of detail it can provide.

[02bluesuperroo]

FYI: Do a repair and compact on the database and then zip it up and it will be a lot smaller. You could then easily create a torrent of the file and share it with whomever.

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='02bluesuperroo' date='24 March 2010 - 08:22 PM' timestamp='1269476577' post='2338774']
FYI: Do a repair and compact on the database and then zip it up and it will be a lot smaller. You could then easily create a torrent of the file and share it with whomever.
[/quote]

HOLY COW - THANKS! The damn thing shrunk by a factor of 20 (I never cared before).

Unfortunately this means that if anybody wants to see this thing I'll have to clean it up so it isn't an embarassment :-)

dave

[David Hillman]

[QUOTE=DaveLeeNC]
I don't know what your problem is. But here is a list of corrections.
I listed the data that I record on the course (which is the most
critical since that is what takes time on the course). I can't imagine
ANYBODY not recording the course that they played (unless they only
play one course in which case there is no issue in the first place).
BTW, I also record date. OH MY GOD - more unmentioned, burdensome data.
The most common 3rd field entry is "NOTHING". Like a NULL field in a
database it can mean anything you want. In my implementation it has
meaning (and a bad lie in the rough or in a bunker is not one of the
allowed meanings). A required entry in this field is not automatic
(hence it is optional).
Calling a semi-colon a 'field' is stupid and totally wrong and hugely
misleading. IT IS A DELIMTER. If you don't know what one is, look it
up. And you missed all the other 'data fields' (like comma's and
dashes).
[/QUOTE]

Look Dave, you've obviously put a lot of time in this system, and are very proud and defensive of it. That's great, but relax, no one is impugning the reputation of your system.

Like I said, it works for you, so that's great... but a null doesn't mean anything except 'no value' by definition. It certainly doesn't "mean anything you want". And a delimiter doesn't convey data, also by definition, as your semi-colon usage does. We'll just have to agree to disagree on those definitions, I guess.

Just one more question, which hopefully won't insult you again. How can you calculate the distance a shot travelled from just the remaining distance to the hole? This only works if you hit every shot straight and short. And out of curiosity, how did you find those 3/4 swing PW shots? Was that encoded in your optional field? I'm struggling to decide between recording shots as simply 'less than full' or trying to be more precise with a fraction or percentage.

Chill out, and if you need some way to distribute your files/samples, let me know. 75mb is nothing for a web server to handle, so you could upload it to mine and people can grab it there. Don't worry, I won't even try to run it... I don't have or want MS Access. It wouldn't work for me anyway, since I putt from off the green all the time.

[rebby]

I've written a couple of my own apps for doing this but switched over to [url=http://cynicalpeak.com/scorecard/]ScoreCard[/url] last near and haven't looked back.

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='David Hillman' date='25 March 2010 - 01:36 PM' timestamp='1269538577' post='2340261']

Look Dave, you've obviously put a lot of time in this system, and are very proud and defensive of it. That's great, but relax, no one is impugning the reputation of your system.

Like I said, it works for you, so that's great... but a null doesn't mean anything except 'no value' by definition. It certainly doesn't "mean anything you want". And a delimiter doesn't convey data, also by definition, as your semi-colon usage does. We'll just have to agree to disagree on those definitions, I guess.

Just one more question, which hopefully won't insult you again. How can you calculate the distance a shot travelled from just the remaining distance to the hole? This only works if you hit every shot straight and short. And out of curiosity, how did you find those 3/4 swing PW shots? Was that encoded in your optional field? I'm struggling to decide between recording shots as simply 'less than full' or trying to be more precise with a fraction or percentage.

Chill out, and if you need some way to distribute your files/samples, let me know. 75mb is nothing for a web server to handle, so you could upload it to mine and people can grab it there. Don't worry, I won't even try to run it... I don't have or want MS Access. It wouldn't work for me anyway, since I putt from off the green all the time.
[/quote]

Regarding "NULL" inputs, I give them meaning in my system. But it is an interesting point since the field in which they appear is called "Special" and NULL means "Nothing Special" (quite literally) in my implementation. This works just fine for my personal definition of "Fairways" (which is not exactly the traditional meaning) and for the way I calculate up/downs and other various less important stuff. While it meets my intent it might not meet other golfer's intent. If I wanted "NULL" to mean "ball in the rough" that is my choice. Of course certain built-in functions, etc. do have 'the right' to make their own assumptions about the meaning of NULL so the implementor needs to be aware if he/she makes the convenient implementation decision that I made regarding the use of NULL (easily solved in any case that I can think of).

Regarding CALCULATING distances, I only do this in one place and that is on "Driving Comparison Holes". These are holes that are basically straight - they might be uphill or downhill but they don't have a severe change of slope in the landing area (such that a ball with 220 carry hits into a hill and 230 carry hits flat or downhill). Courses that I play typically have 5-6 "driving comp holes" per course.

As I step to the tee (on those holes) I kind of look at the tee markers and if they are more than 5'ish yards 'off' I make myself a mental note. Then I look at the pin position on my second shot and will make a "good to within 10 yards" mark on the card for yardage adjustments. I only do this on 'Distance Comp Holes' as I don't have any other queries that depend on this data. For these holes my "Driving Comparison Distance" is the Hole Yardage (possibly overridden from the card) minus second shot distance. Driving Comparison Distance is an ignored parameter on courses that I don't play often (that don't have defined Driving Comp Holes).

If I am playing a 550 yard dogleg par 5 and hit a typical drive I'll probably write down 320 for my second shot - but the system implementor needs to be aware of limitations in the data.

Regarding 'partial PW shots' it would be easy to add tokens to the system (PW means 'full PW', PW3 means 3/4 PW, PW2 means 2/4 (half) PW, or whatever you want to do). I dodn't do that. My full gap wedge distance would be 95 to 105 so I filtered out all the holes with approach shots that are severely uphill/downhill and looked at the percentage accuracy of those shot distances vs. full PW shot distances of 105 to 115. Granted a few of those 'full PW shots' were wind-aided 3/4 swings and a few of the supposed 3/4 PW shots were probably full swings into the wind. But it isn't exceptionally windy here and I believe that, if my 3/4 swing PW were truly less accurate on a percentage basis than my full swing PW, it would show up in the data (given 3 years of it - like averaging noise out of an electrical signal).

But if you were interested in tracking stuff at this level of detail I would definitely do it with more tokens in the "Club" field, rather than using the "Special" field. I occasionally will play a knock-down short iron instead of a full swing short iron. I cannot tell the difference in my data between a knock-down 7i and a full swing 7i hit into a 20 mph breeze. I've considered changing this, but didn't do it.

Thanks for the file hosting offer. My implementation serves my purposes quite well, but it is pretty ugly by pure database design standards so I have never been eager to 'send it out there'. But since it compacted to under 3MB it is manageable by more direct means.

dave

[02bluesuperroo]

[quote name='David Hillman' date='25 March 2010 - 01:36 PM' timestamp='1269538577' post='2340261']
It wouldn't work for me anyway, since I putt from off the green all the time.
[/quote]

You have said this multiple times, so I have to ask. Are you counting a stroke as a "Putt" just because you used a putter? The reason I ask is I don't think that is accurate. I'm pretty sure a stroke only counts as a "putt" if you are on the green.

[02bluesuperroo]

As for an actual "on topic" post, since it hasn't been posted yet, I use Myscorecard.com to track my stats and handicap.

The nice thing about it is they have "local clubs" where you can join together with a bunch of other people and if you fill out the necessary paperwork ect you can get a USGA legal handicap card from the site directly. I have a local Milwaukee club so I can keep all my stats on there and then get an official USGA card if I need it for a tournament.

The site does cost money however, a little <$10 / year.

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='02bluesuperroo' date='25 March 2010 - 03:34 PM' timestamp='1269545688' post='2340457']
[quote name='David Hillman' date='25 March 2010 - 01:36 PM' timestamp='1269538577' post='2340261']
It wouldn't work for me anyway, since I putt from off the green all the time.
[/quote]

You have said this multiple times, so I have to ask. Are you counting a stroke as a "Putt" just because you used a putter? The reason I ask is I don't think that is accurate. I'm pretty sure a stroke only counts as a "putt" if you are on the green.
[/quote]

The system is free to define "putts" any way it wants to define them. WHen I did my own system I define putts (sometimes) as strokes with a putter when I am a few feet off the green (it depends on the situation and is pure judgement on my part). That works for my own purposes.

For those who want a more pure definition of putts that 'matches' what the (for example) PGA Tour defines as 'putts', then you would need to alter your data input accordingly.

I'm not sure how I would handle the case of (possibly multiple) putts off the green (maybe in to bunkers, etc). It happens but not often enough (to me) to matter.

dave

[David Hillman]

[QUOTE]
You have said this multiple times, so I have to ask. Are you counting a
stroke as a "Putt" just because you used a putter? The reason I ask is
I don't think that is accurate. I'm pretty sure a stroke only counts as
a "putt" if you are on the green.
[/QUOTE]

It depends. If I'm 2" off the "putting surface" on closely-mown fringe, that's a putt in my book, regardless of any offical definition. On the other hand, if I'm 10 yards down the fairway in front of the green, but putting it up to a front pin like Arnie says to, then it's not. Everything on the green is a putt, maybe 50% of other shots with a putter are as well, for me.

[QUOTE=DaveLeeNC]
Regarding CALCULATING distances, I only do this in one place and that
is on "Driving Comparison Holes".
[/QUOTE]

Okay, that makes a lot more sense. I was thinking that for a golfer who misses in all directions ( like I do ), your 'Shot Distance' columns mentioned a few posts above would have an error of at least 15%. There's a big difference between 30y short and 20y long, although I guess if you are inconsistent enough with your misses, the errors could average out over the long run.

I've found that I need six fields per shot to store everything I might later want. Club, from, to, distance travelled, distance out, and direction. Actually, I need seven, but I haven't added that anything for 3/4 or 1/2 swing shots yet. Some of those can be calculated on the fly, based on the preceding shot's data, and don't need to be recorded everytime.

[02bluesuperroo]

[quote name='David Hillman' date='25 March 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1269548739' post='2340558']
[QUOTE]
You have said this multiple times, so I have to ask. Are you counting a
stroke as a "Putt" just because you used a putter? The reason I ask is
I don't think that is accurate. I'm pretty sure a stroke only counts as
a "putt" if you are on the green.
[/QUOTE]

It depends. If I'm 2" off the "putting surface" on closely-mown fringe, that's a putt in my book, regardless of any offical definition. On the other hand, if I'm 10 yards down the fairway in front of the green, but putting it up to a front pin like Arnie says to, then it's not. Everything on the green is a putt, maybe 50% of other shots with a putter are as well, for me.
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification. My only argument would be that it makes it difficult to compare with other people but I doubt that really matters to you (or most other people).

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='David Hillman' date='25 March 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1269548739' post='2340558']
SNIP

Okay, that makes a lot more sense. I was thinking that for a golfer who misses in all directions ( like I do ), your 'Shot Distance' columns mentioned a few posts above would have an error of at least 15%. There's a big difference between 30y short and 20y long, although I guess if you are inconsistent enough with your misses, the errors could average out over the long run.

I've found that I need six fields per shot to store everything I might later want. Club, from, to, distance travelled, distance out, and direction. Actually, I need seven, but I haven't added that anything for 3/4 or 1/2 swing shots yet. Some of those can be calculated on the fly, based on the preceding shot's data, and don't need to be recorded everytime.
[/quote]

I'm not sure what error you are referring to here. Virtually all approach shots have distances that are laser measured (because that is how I play with or without my stats). WHile I can't tell left from right from long from short, 18 yards from the pin after after a 100 yard approach is 18% error.

dave

[hayzooos]

I know you said you were looking for something that was free, but if you're interested in keeping track of your handicap, then you could try out www.myscorecard.com. It's a very reasonable price (like $8/year or something like that if you buy a 3-year package) and you can keep track of up to 10 (they may have added more since I signed up a few years back and haven't changed it since) stats of your picking.

It also gives you good analysis as well, trending information, a bunch of different things. I've used it for a bit over three years now, and I find it extremely helpful. All the information I keep I can keep track of on one scorecard, in one square, so I'm not hogging the card for myself . Fairways, greens, up/down success, putts, birdies, doubles, and penalty strokes. I think that's all I keep track of. After 5 or so rounds, it will compare you to people using the system of your same handicap and let you know where you're strong and where you're weak.

Also gives you your "anticap" and a variability index as well. Basically how consistent you are. Variability is simply the difference between your handicap (best 10 rounds of your last 20) and your anticap (worst 10 rounds of your last 20). It's really a pretty slick system they have, and you can get an official handicap card through them as well I believe. I knew I was a pretty inconsistent golfer before, but I never knew to the extent until I started using this. I went from a handicap of 6 and a variability of about 10 to a handicap of 4 and a variability of 4 or 5.

[David Hillman]

[QUOTE=DaveLeeNC]
I'm not sure what error you are referring to here. Virtually all
approach shots have distances that are laser measured (because that is
how I play with or without my stats). WHile I can't tell left from
right from long from short, 18 yards from the pin after after a 100
yard approach is 18% error.
[/QUOTE]

As I understand it, you are recording the distance from the hole for each shot, and then calculating the distance each shot travelled 'on the back end' in your system. Shot distance appears to be stored in columns in your per-shot database table. I think those distances stored in the table are going to have large error-bars on them.

Borrowing your previous example, you played a hole as "D,4i-175-L,SW-22-B,P-14;13-1". This means you hit a 4i from 175y out, and then a SW from 22y out in a bunker. How far did the 4i travel? It could have gone 153y into a trap short of the green, or 197y into one behind. Or, obviously, 175 pin-high but left or right. How can you tell, after the fact, if you don't record the direction in which the shot missed?

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='David Hillman' date='26 March 2010 - 11:53 AM' timestamp='1269618814' post='2342270']
[QUOTE=DaveLeeNC]
I'm not sure what error you are referring to here. Virtually all
approach shots have distances that are laser measured (because that is
how I play with or without my stats). WHile I can't tell left from
right from long from short, 18 yards from the pin after after a 100
yard approach is 18% error.
[/QUOTE]

[i] As I understand it, you are recording the distance from the hole for each shot, and then calculating the distance each shot travelled 'on the back end' in your system. Shot distance appears to be stored in columns in your per-shot database table. I think those distances stored in the table are going to have large error-bars on them.

Borrowing your previous example, you played a hole as "D,4i-175-L,SW-22-B,P-14;13-1". This means you hit a 4i from 175y out, and then a SW from 22y out in a bunker. How far did the 4i travel? It could have gone 153y into a trap short of the green, or 197y into one behind. Or, obviously, 175 pin-high but left or right. How can you tell, after the fact, if you don't record the direction in which the shot missed?
[/i][/quote]

As I stated previously I don't [b]CALCULATE[/b] shot distances other than on "Driving Distance Comparison Holes". In those cases where I do [b]CALCULATE[/b] shot distances on "Driving Distance Comparison Holes", my system (as an example) on a 250 yard drive that is 30 yards left/right of the target on a 400 yard par 4 has an additional (roughly) 2 yard inaccuracy due to the directional error.

But 'how far did the ball actually travel' is not information that is available in the way that I record my data (other than "Driving Distance Comparison Holes" with the previously listed limitations). It isn't information that I find important for what I do and don't know/need about my game. Others may be different.

dave

[SAGolfer61]

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