(my opinion)TAYLORMADE DOESN'T DESERVE OUR SUPPORT

[joey3108]

TP = Tour preferred

I always thought that the TP series was developed base on what the tour players play to serve a better than average golfers needs despite what the consumers/players think on their ability to be able to handle it or not. NO retail store will stop them from buying it whether they can hit it or not.

Thus, why they have to have a B head for the tour players?

Despite what the EXPERT says, Lots of consumer wants what the players play...This is part of the reason TP version born. They saw the opportunity to make some $$$.

Because of the nature on my customization i do everyday, I have to talk and explain this to customers what they have to look for to give the best possible set up for their swing....But at the end of the day, they will have to make a final decision, I can only give suggestion. Some still goes with what the players play, no negotiation what so ever.

The argument Forged carbon steel versus cast SS is an old story. IMO if most consumers and players says it different, so be it! Bottom line, they are the one who spend the money. Look at some of the club head design with emblem or rubber insert in the cavity of the club, What do you think those are for? Check out a Patent office site and read them carefully. One of the reason they did that is to enhance the feel and create what I call FAKE forged feel....so they do admit there is a different. Whether it's coming from a different sound or what ever.

What are the most common mistakes of great companies fall from their fame? Don't listen to what consumers need, Poor Quality control, Over spending internally, etc, etc. right or wrong?


Again, It's only my 2 cents!

joe

[whchoclte]

Issue is if you put out the B heads to retail then the TP version becomes useless in the line.

I could never understand where the Tour Preferred irons fell in the sets if you had R9 tp and Burner TP. That Tour preferred set should be a new design solid cavity and muscle back as we have asked for numerous times.

With all this R&D you telling me thats not possible.

The TM focus is on selling clubs, claiming to be #1 problem is you dont cater to all golfers. Their lines are full of more clubs for the avg-below avg golfer then the very good one.

The very good golfer has to find B heads or get from japan while the avg golfer has numerous choices.

[bchester6]

[quote name='Parker19822' date='09 February 2010 - 08:33 AM' timestamp='1265733238' post='2238447']
[quote name='bchester6' date='09 February 2010 - 07:20 AM' timestamp='1265728805' post='2238267']
I don't necessarily think TM totally sucks but it is certainly a sleep at the wheel right now and I don't mean sales because I'm sure we've been buying the crap out of the stuff. All I'm saying is, don't make your clubs heads look like race cars (Nascar market) or flags. Oops, just gave them another lame idea for club head design. Anyways, after you buy your set from TM and then go get fitted in their "performance lab" you could've bought a set of nice forged for the same amount. If you really want to get better, have a real "golfsmith" make you a set from the ground up because there is no substitute for a true custom build according to Mr. Wishon as I also have much respect for this man as well. For all of you who aren't familiar with his writings it's a MUST read! He talks about the phenomenon of "longer distance clubs" which is just a strengthening of the lofts in each club so that it plays longer than it's supposed to which means by the time you get to your 4 iron it's as hard to hit as a 2 iron thus the hybrid to help you. TM understands this (obsession with distance) as well because I had a set of R7 shovels once and the loft of the pitching wedge was 44 degrees stock. That's currently my 9 iron. Nice try TM.
[/quote]

Taylor made lists the loft of r7 pitching wedge as 45*. Cobra S2 forged are 44*, and Callaway has very strong lofted clubs as well. This is a regular happening accross the board for almost all club manufacturers who make game improvement/ super game improvement clubs. Most player irons will keep a weaker loft through out the set.
[/quote]

I hate to say it but their all the same beast when you look at those three. Callaway especially, same as TM but with SQUARE HEADED GOLF CLUBS!! Who does that?? Pathetic and and asthetically attractive as genital herpes. As for strong lofts, thanks for making longer irons virtually unhittable for average golfers.... and thanks for providing the savior to it all in the form of a hybrid.

[The Sheepdog]

[color="#1C2837"][quote]I think the original poster is just mad that he feels taken from the TM marketing machine (maybe losing money on resale?)[/quote][/color]

[color="#1C2837"]I'd say this proves that you still have nor have ever had any real idea of why I started this post. Go find another fence to sit on in another forum and quit speaking for me, telling ME I don't have a clue and whatever other venom you wanna spew. You started out by saying how annoying this post was, and now you won't leave it! MYOFB![/color]

[Billy Barou]

Since I posted in this thread early on, I've read the posts that followed; the thing to me is this -

TaylorMade is a company that manufacturers golf equipment. For some it's good golf equipment, for others not so much. For the vast majority of the golfing public, it is seen as NO different than all the other leading golf equipment companies. They aren't getting b*tt-hurt about the gaudy badges on the irons. The average Joe that watches a tourney on the weekend, and sees that TM makes the "#1 Driver" will be to some degree, intrigued. The may, or may not purchase one the next time they are so inclined to purchase a driver. The same may be true of their irons, putters, or balls.

If their game is or becomes lousy they may or may not opt to choose a DIFFERENT manufacturer of golf equipment in the future - blaming said lousy play on said golf equipment. If it gets better, they may or may not attribute it to the equipment. That may or may not be accurate. Who knows? They may play like crap with Callaway, Titleist, Ping, Cobra, etc. if they were to choose it instead. Or better.

In the end you could throw out this scenario out there about ANY company; automobile, plasma TV, toothpaste, cotton swabs - WHATEVER. You might dig their ads, you might like their color scheme, you are crazy about the font in their logo - does it really matter. Buy it, don't buy it, dis it during your next round. In the end, until I want to, I'm not going to feel any more or less obligation to one of these companies than another. None of them "deserve" anything from me apart from making sure I actually pay for it before leaving the store. A lot of folks seem to have this idea of these manufacturers staying up late at night truly giving a squat about all the golfers out there on some higher, kumbaya-like plane that connects us to them.

I'm thinking they want to make more money. End of story. If TM thinks that way is to offer a new line of drivers every six months in a quantity-over-quality fashion, that's what they're gonna do. If Mizzy thinks it's making 5 slightly different sets of blades to suck in the better player, that's what THEY'LL do. A bunch of suits will make the decision to go down a certain path of thinking to attempt to maximize their profit margin, and if it doesn't work, they'll try something else in hopes that something else will work. That's it.

So if you like Mizuno, buy it. If you like Ping, buy it. If I like TaylorMade for now, or maybe just until next year - I'LL buy it. But why waste time bashing or whining or thinking they (or us!) "deserve" ANYTHING! At the end of the day - they're just golf clubs.

It must be February.

[makigrl]

[quote name='Guia' date='08 February 2010 - 01:48 PM' timestamp='1265654896' post='2236325']
I don't see your problem. BUY THE JAPANESE MODEL.
[/quote]

You could buy the Japanese Model but to have it shipped to the United States would probably cost a lot. I was on Ebay's UK site. I saw a Cobra F Speed driver from 2007 a guy was selling in which it had only been used for about 7 rounds. The club started at 10 Pounds and eventually ended at 10 Pounds. I didn't even bid on the item because the guy told me to ship item to the US would cost 30 Pounds. If I had bid on that Cobra Driver it would have cost me about $46 US Dollars just for shipping. I don't know how much it would cost to ship a set of Irons across the Atlantic or Pacific but I would imagine that would be at least $100-$200.

Does Nike have any quality problems with their clubs? I was able to Purchase a SQ 5000 Driver used for around $50 including shipping. I know with their Softball and Baseball bats some people found their bats to break easily. I bought a Nike driver because I wanted something for a company that people think of as being known for making good equipment. I would have liked to get a Callaway or Cobra but I know Nike makes good clubs too. I used not like Taylor Made because I thought of them being the biggest. They had the most tour players who used Taylor Made and Why do you have to purchase from the biggest.

[Parker19822]

Since I posted in this thread early on, I've read the posts that followed; the thing to me is this -

 

TaylorMade is a company that manufacturers golf equipment. For some it's good golf equipment, for others not so much. For the vast majority of the golfing public, it is seen as NO different than all the other leading golf equipment companies. They aren't getting b*tt-hurt about the gaudy badges on the irons. The average Joe that watches a tourney on the weekend, and sees that TM makes the "#1 Driver" will be to some degree, intrigued. The may, or may not purchase one the next time they are so inclined to purchase a driver. The same may be true of their irons, putters, or balls.

 

If their game is or becomes lousy they may or may not opt to choose a DIFFERENT manufacturer of golf equipment in the future - blaming said lousy play on said golf equipment. If it gets better, they may or may not attribute it to the equipment. That may or may not be accurate. Who knows? They may play like crap with Callaway, Titleist, Ping, Cobra, etc. if they were to choose it instead. Or better.

 

In the end you could throw out this scenario out there about ANY company; automobile, plasma TV, toothpaste, cotton swabs - WHATEVER. You might dig their ads, you might like their color scheme, you are crazy about the font in their logo - does it really matter. Buy it, don't buy it, dis it during your next round. In the end, until I want to, I'm not going to feel any more or less obligation to one of these companies than another. None of them "deserve" anything from me apart from making sure I actually pay for it before leaving the store. A lot of folks seem to have this idea of these manufacturers staying up late at night truly giving a squat about all the golfers out there on some higher, kumbaya-like plane that connects us to them.

 

I'm thinking they want to make more money. End of story. If TM thinks that way is to offer a new line of drivers every six months in a quantity-over-quality fashion, that's what they're gonna do. If Mizzy thinks it's making 5 slightly different sets of blades to suck in the better player, that's what THEY'LL do. A bunch of suits will make the decision to go down a certain path of thinking to attempt to maximize their profit margin, and if it doesn't work, they'll try something else in hopes that something else will work. That's it.

 

So if you like Mizuno, buy it. If you like Ping, buy it. If I like TaylorMade for now, or maybe just until next year - I'LL buy it. But why waste time bashing or whining or thinking they (or us!) "deserve" ANYTHING! At the end of the day - they're just golf clubs.

 

It must be February.

 

+1

 

I'm not the CEO here guys. I was just trying to add some information to the post.

 

I'm allowed to work for a major OEM and still think Tom Wishon is the man.

[bchester6]

I think Wishon is the man too. So will most after they read his books. Have a good day at work man.

[smegan]

Stuff can't be that bad as most of their touring pros (not just in the U.S.) use the equipment that is offered in the U.S. You could say TM forces their PGA pros to use their retail stuff, but the use of the Japan retail stuff is very minimal even for the europe and australasian pros as well. I'm sure they could use all that stuff easily but they choose not to. Please don't get on the silly conspiracy theory that the pros are really playing forged versions of the stuff. Virtually everyone today is getting their forgings done in China anyway. Very few are still forged in Japan (cost period) so by popular word of mouth the forgings aren't as good just for that reason. But as others have said if you want those just buy them---plenty of sites that offer access to the Japanese OEM stuff..

[AcesAZ]

[quote name='Ragamuffin' date='09 February 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1265775316' post='2240361']
[color="#1C2837"][quote]I think the original poster is just mad that he feels taken from the TM marketing machine (maybe losing money on resale?)[/quote][/color]

[color="#1C2837"]I'd say this proves that you still have nor have ever had any real idea of why I started this post. Go find another fence to sit on in another forum and quit speaking for me, telling ME I don't have a clue and whatever other venom you wanna spew. You started out by saying how annoying this post was, and now you won't leave it! MYOFB![/color]
[/quote]

Please enlighten us then because I still haven't found any real reason to bash Taylormade.

[dachtor]

I can't speak for the retailer, because I'm not one. As a consumer, I just make the system work for me. In other words, I won't be buying the R9 tp irons this year. Maybe next year, maybe not. I'm almost always a year behind when it comes to drivers and irons. Why? VALUE! In 2009, my Cally x-20 Tour irons were replaced by the 2009 Tour Preferred irons and I love them. They feel as good as forged irons to me. I tried a set of Mizzy MP-60's before the TM's and they didn't perform like the TM's did for me. The best part, I paid $300 for the set of TM's off eBay with Project X shafts and they are mint condition! My driver is a TM r9 460 TP with a Project X graph shaft. Cost? $300 off eBay. I had some leftover pro shop money at my club and I had my pro custom order me 2 rescue tp's. TM was prompt in their shipment and I also got a deal relative to the retail store prices. I've only played two 9 hole rounds with these, but I absolutely love them. Best Hybrids I've ever hit.

Bottom line, no company "deserves" our support. They earn it! If you don't like the US retail offerings from Taylormade, you are entitled to your opinion. Don't buy them. Or, if you are so inclined, find a Japanese retailer to ship you a set to your liking.

[Putt For Dough]

Interesting thread guys.

Taylor Made's business strategy is marketing over quality. They know that they can produce a cast iron with a TP logo and even at the same price point, it will sell more than the equivalent forged Mizuno. As a business, this is fantastic if you keep getting away with it. For the consumer, it's not so great. Two things can and will happen over time. They can either change their strategy and produce a better product that is comparible to that of their competitors or they will lose their customers (don't laugh, it could happen) and have to start the long process of winning them back.

While it's true that the Taylor Made JDM line is available to purchase online and consumers have the choice of what to buy, this is not the point at all. People don't like the thought of being ripped off and that's essentialy what Taylor Made are doing with the Western market.

[quote name='CasualLie' date='08 February 2010 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1265654704' post='2236317']
It's really quite simple: Sean Toulon and Mark King need to reassert themselves when it comes to the TP line. TM can sell all the junk to the masses they want, but it's really sad when these two guys pushed for a TP line, got a pretty good following and now have watered it down to junk with thinner top lines. Looks like Vincent Benoit got the last laugh.

It was fun while it lasted but now its pretty obvious all TP is good for is spending an extra $100 to get a neutral driver.
[/quote]
[quote name='joey3108' date='09 February 2010 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1265744228' post='2238972']
TP = Tour preferred

I always thought that the TP series was developed base on what the tour players play to serve a better than average golfers needs despite what the consumers/players think on their ability to be able to handle it or not. NO retail store will stop them from buying it whether they can hit it or not.

Thus, why they have to have a B head for the tour players?
[/quote]
Two great posts.

I'm a consumer now but I played on the European Tour for two years and I can tell you that Taylor Made's tour products are (in general) further away from retail than any other OEM. Here's a thought: How many Taylor Made staff players are using the R9 TP "B" heads over the standard R9 TP heads. I'd take a serious bet that more "B" heads are being used. If that's the case, how long can Taylor Made continue to use the term "Tour Preferred". It's not just a product name, it's a statement. I'd be interested to hear a legal view on this.

As for bringing Tom Wishon in to the argument. Wishon currently produce 3 forged irons so whether Tom thinks there's a difference or not, he continues to create cast and forged irons to give consumers a choice.

[MagnoliaTiger]

I rarely buy anything Taylormade or Callaway. It's like buying your clothes at K-Mart. In my opinion, of course. If you like their stuff, then good for you. To each his own. But, I have noticed TM's Japanese market stuff looks a lot better. You have to wonder "why"?

[Obsessotron]

Taylor Made is just on cruise control because their marketing machine has been effective. Your average hacker just wants to buy something that will give him "more distance" and since Taylor Made has effectively positioned themselves as "The Driver Company", they get those sales. Most people don't know the difference between great quality forged irons and cast shovels because they can barely hit irons consistently.

Taylor Made doesn't really consider anyone on this site as being in their target market.

[rankoutsider]

There is a big elephant in the room when you talk about TM and Callaway, and it hasn't come up yet.

These companies have built into their business model the knowledge that a significant portion of what they sell of a product line will be sold as clearance equipment. Both Cally and TM manufacture way more of a product than they will sell on first run, and when the last of the inventory gets to a number that Dicks or Golf Galaxy/Golftown will buy (at less than original wholesale), the OEMs start to make plans to wheel out the new line. So, clubs are not kept on the shelf while a new line is developed; the new line sits and waits until the stock of the old gets low enough that they can clear it out, and then the new and old are featured together.

So, if you are knowingly producing many sets of irons that you have already determined will be sold as discounted product, why would you keep quality high? Ponder that one, good souls. The answer, though, is that you wouldn't. You would keep quality and cost so low that you were still making some money on the sets you sold for 50% of the original cost.

When you buy a new TM or Cally product you are paying for the item itself AND some of the profit that has to be realized on the set or driver that sells at a significant reduction in 6 months when the new version is coming out. Most people who buy TM or Cally pay the reduced, clearance price a few months after release. That means that those who buy them right away are paying what needs to be realized on that set and a portion of the profit that needs to be realized on the set that sits in the shop for a year.

Pretty simple: when you buy their mass market offerings, you are buying junk.

[Billy Barou]

[color=#1C2837]"If that's the case, how long can Taylor Made continue to use the term "Tour Preferred". It's not just a product name, it's a statement."[/color]
[color="#1C2837"]
[/color]
[color="#1C2837"]See, this is where I think there is probably where a lot of people will have loads of varying interpretations. To me TM's "Tour Preferred" line of stuff is like automobile manufacturers offerings that move up the "quality foodchain" so to speak (Ford to Mercury to Lincoln as an example) - but in no way shape or form in the same ballpark as they would offer anyone involved in racing programs. The same thing in golf - what Tour players, REAL Tour players play with, and what folks at their local pro shop might purchase and game - not remotely close.[/color]
[color="#1C2837"]
[/color]
[color="#1C2837"]So to me. TM Tour Preferred stuff IS a product name and not a "statement" that some pro or pros are out there playing it. But it sounds like you have a completely different take on what it means. Someone else may think that ONLY forged clubs that are ONLY forged in Japan and ONLY have lofts in such a certain range are TRULY "tour" kinds of stuff.[/color]
[color="#1C2837"]
[/color]
[color="#1C2837"]We'll always have our own ways of defining what is good, bad, great or lousy. Buy and game what you like. To think WE can change what they are going to do is rather naive in my opinion.[/color]
[color="#1C2837"]
[/color]
[color="#1C2837"]
[/color]

[Parker19822]

Well said Billy!

[whchoclte]

The key word is Tour [b]PREFERRED[/b]. Some guys on tour dont use the B heads some do. Hell Kenny Perry uses some GI stuff.

Personally I dont think it carries much merit as we all have our preference.

Take a company like Mizuno they off alot of irons to choose from none say tour.

Where most people get caught up and I know do is to have the choice in the TM line is to at least have the choice to play the B heads. If they are made and out there why not offer even in limited quantity. I think its what most people want, just the choice. I bet they would outsell the TP version.

Also what do you call the R9 B Heads if Tour Preferred is taken.

Alot of golfers I talke dto just feel Tm is playing customers with teh constant releases. Holding back letting you buy and then boom, add extra weight and reissue, or hold B heads and then release as expected. Its great business when you have their name but after a while takes its toll.

[Putt For Dough]

[quote name='Billy Barou' date='10 February 2010 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1265823484' post='2241327']
[color="#1c2837"]"If that's the case, how long can Taylor Made continue to use the term "Tour Preferred". It's not just a product name, it's a statement."[/color]
[color="#1c2837"]
[/color]
[color="#1c2837"]See, this is where I think there is probably where a lot of people will have loads of varying interpretations. To me TM's "Tour Preferred" line of stuff is like automobile manufacturers offerings that move up the "quality foodchain" so to speak (Ford to Mercury to Lincoln as an example) - but in no way shape or form in the same ballpark as they would offer anyone involved in racing programs. The same thing in golf - what Tour players, REAL Tour players play with, and what folks at their local pro shop might purchase and game - not remotely close.[/color]
[color="#1c2837"]
[/color]
[color="#1c2837"]So to me. TM Tour Preferred stuff IS a product name and not a "statement" that some pro or pros are out there playing it. But it sounds like you have a completely different take on what it means. Someone else may think that ONLY forged clubs that are ONLY forged in Japan and ONLY have lofts in such a certain range are TRULY "tour" kinds of stuff.[/color]
[color="#1c2837"]
[/color]
[color="#1c2837"]We'll always have our own ways of defining what is good, bad, great or lousy. Buy and game what you like. To think WE can change what they are going to do is rather naive in my opinion.[/color]
[/quote]

I completely understand your post Billy but there are a few main differences. I don't know much about Ford/Mercury/Lincoln but if the principal is the same as Toyota/Lexus then the comparison is very different to Taylor Made. Lexus is the luxury vehicle division of Toyota and their cars are designed, engineered and manufactured seperately from Toyota and thus they promote to a different market at a different price point. I assume that the R9 and R9 TP irons are produced in the same factory with the same quality controls. I might be wrong but doesn't the Taylor Made TP line cost more than the equivalent standard model?

Maybe saying that Tour Preferred is a statement was a bit strong but based on their lack of actual tour presence, it is slightly deceitful.

[Billy Barou]

Putt for Dough,

True, Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles ARE absolutely different models (and one could make the case that the Burner irons are reminiscent of the Toyota vehicle in this example, while the TP irons are akin to the Lexus), but the vehicles that the Toyota Racing Development division (TRD) would produce are sooooooo completely different (much as one would ASSUME Tour player equipment is to the store bought stuff) that it is laughable to compare.

The fact that it says "Tour Preferred" to me says, (and I am using this as sort of a tongue in cheek way of saying it) a Tour professional would "prefer" to use it over the next lower club available. I have a hard time thinking most folks really believe that a Tour professional would CHOOSE to use it when there are Tour vans and club professionals out there tweaking all their stuff - even if it was like ours stuff to start with - I am fairly certain it isn't when they go out "to work"

All the Pros stuff is like that, whether it's TM or not. If you bought a Toyota Supra with some TRD decals or badges on it, would you really think it was a "race car"?

Cheers,
Kev

[BDoubleG]

This is definitely interesting stuff. I probably wouldn't buy TM (although I used to be exclusively TM), and I wouldn't pay full retail for TM stuff to save my life with ONE exception: the Kia Ma putters (not the ones with the inserts, the legit 100% milled carbon steel babies).

These are simply the nicest putters I have ever used. They look great and feel fantastic! These are clubs that TM should be (and I believe are) extremely proud of, and are undoubtedly deserving of a "Tour Preferred" badge.

From what I gather, these putters sell fairly well. They are in the price range of Camerons, Bettinardis etc. So why is it people are happily dropping $300+ on a putter from TM, and would NOT be ok with spending $1300 on quality irons?

Just my opinion, but there does seem to be something of a flaw here...

[grizzlyblades]

that is what taylor made wants and, that is to tap into the general market for a profit share.

I don't remember when the last time I even bought any taylor made stuff...wait I think it was the r580 or something, and I have that thing in my garage.... and all that interchangeable shafts and clicking crap is not for me. reminds me of those advertising gimmicks you see on the golf channel. like that bumble bee driver thing back in the days.

[Putt For Dough]

[quote name='Billy Barou' date='10 February 2010 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1265829659' post='2241590']
Putt for Dough,

True, Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles ARE absolutely different models (and one could make the case that the Burner irons are reminiscent of the Toyota vehicle in this example, while the TP irons are akin to the Lexus), but the vehicles that the Toyota Racing Development division (TRD) would produce are sooooooo completely different (much as one would ASSUME Tour player equipment is to the store bought stuff) that it is laughable to compare.

The fact that it says "Tour Preferred" to me says, (and I am using this as sort of a tongue in cheek way of saying it) a Tour professional would "prefer" to use it over the next lower club available. I have a hard time thinking most folks really believe that a Tour professional would CHOOSE to use it when there are Tour vans and club professionals out there tweaking all their stuff - even if it was like ours stuff to start with - I am fairly certain it isn't when they go out "to work"

All the Pros stuff is like that, whether it's TM or not. If you bought a Toyota Supra with some TRD decals or badges on it, would you really think it was a "race car"?

Cheers,
Kev
[/quote]
Perhaps I took the argument about Tour Preferred a little too far Kev.

My point was that original poster was disappointed with what Taylor Made are currently offering to the market and I agree. Other OEM's are making a better product at the same price and when their own staff players don't prefer their Tour Preferred irons (which inexplicably cost more than the standard model!), why should we. While the marketing guys at Taylor Made continue to work their magic, they'll continue to get away with it. I'm pretty confident that they won't get away with it forever.

[zodiackill]

You know, i agree with you guys they need to release their better stuff. However in another forum im following its almost confirmed the the R9 Superdeep is coming out, with an aldila R.I.P shaft. Now if that isnt some of their top notch stuff i dont know what is. I will probably be waiting for this driver even with its 600$ price tag

[Billy Barou]

Putt For,

I am in agreement with you for sure.

Just like the incredibly short-sighted, extremely naive and sadly out of touch American carmakers, TaylorMade may very well be cutting off its nose to spite its face for sure. Isn't my problem. If they lose marketshare and profits and go out of business, I will simply turn to another make of club - there are plenty out there to choose from.

I have just been chiming in primarily because I currently own TM and constantly see posters on here bashing their positioning of how they go to market. As a lot of OTHER posters say though - if you don't like their stuff, simply refuse to purchase it. I can see the frustration the OP feels as it certainly seems that TM is aiming more for the weekend golfer than the more enlightened/skilled player that frequents this site, but hoping that TM all of a sudden changes direction and puts a focus on churning out Tour type equipment here in the US would be like expecting the Titanic to turn on a dime. I don't see it happening.

[rankoutsider]

I agree with all of you guys: if you don't like, buy something else. The thing that POs me about TM, though, is that they have a business model that is basically killing the small golf shop. My buddy is left with about 5 or 6 sets every year that he bought at a premium and has to sell at a loss once the box store gets their hands on the discontinued lines. Racks of drivers as well. He doesn't want to carry TM any longer, but how will that go over with his customers?

I think TM would actually like to drive small shops out of business, because people get knowledgeable help there. What a company like TM wants is ignorant consumers pushed toward their products in box stores. TM has a contract with the Golftown in town that their rack has to be the first one a customer passes when they enter the store (I think that is the case at all Golftown stores in Canada) because they suspect that most consumers know very little and will buy what a salesperson tells them is good. Or that we are stupid enough to buy the first club we see.

Crazy stuff, but it has a trickle down effect of killing the small shop, which I am not too happy about.

[BDoubleG]

OK, I realize that this isn't exactly the issue at hand, but one has to admit that TM's unbelievable turnaround must have something to do with this. I always hear jokes along the likes of "oh, the Penta's out now, I bet the Hexa will be out by July" or "now that they've come out with R9s with funny names, the R11 should be out by April". Usually, I take these with a grain of salt, but look at the R9/burner track record (these numbers could be a bit off, but you get the jist):
- Burner 09 - Q1 09
- R9 - Q1 09
- R9 460 - Q2 09
- Burner Superfast - Q1 10
- R9 Supertri - Q1 10
..and NOW
- R9 Superdeep - Q2 10?

It really is ridiculous. I find it hard to believe that a company churning out stuff this fast even has time to properly research this stuff! It reminds me of RIM (Blackberry) when a close friend of mine worked there a few years ago. While at one point RIM was known for its quality, it turned around and decided to churn out a new Blackberry every month. He said that during this period, beta testers (people who look for minor flaws and irritants in the programming) were getting nearly non-working products as a result of bumped-up schedules to meet ridiculous deadlines! Fortunately, it seems as though RIM has turned itself around to a degree, and I hope TM does the same...

Back on topic, given the lack of research time and many of the pros still playing older TM drivers, I'll stay away from them, but I really do agree with most of these people...if you don't like these products, voice your opinion by not buying them. People have all sorts of reasons for not liking certain manufacturers...examples I've overheard (not necessarily my opinions):
- Nike should stick to making clothes, I'm not buying clubs from a clothing manufacturer
- Scotty cameron is the most pompous egomaniac in golf, and I won't buy his products
- Titleist fans are all pretentious arses who refuse to play anything without "Titleist" stamped on them, that's not for me
- Callaway's square clubs are fugly...definitely not
- Boo Weekley is a hick, and camo wedges are lame, so I'm boycotting Cleveland
- Ping doesn't do forged, I'm boycotting them until they get with the times!

...I could go on all day! As I said, there aren't necessarily my opinions, but they are definitely some peoples' opinions, and as a result, certain people won't buy certain things!

[Putt For Dough]

[quote name='Billy Barou' date='10 February 2010 - 11:59 PM' timestamp='1265846348' post='2242329']
Putt For,

I am in agreement with you for sure.

Just like the incredibly short-sighted, extremely naive and sadly out of touch American carmakers, TaylorMade may very well be cutting off its nose to spite its face for sure. Isn't my problem. If they lose marketshare and profits and go out of business, I will simply turn to another make of club - there are plenty out there to choose from.

I have just been chiming in primarily because I currently own TM and constantly see posters on here bashing their positioning of how they go to market. As a lot of OTHER posters say though - if you don't like their stuff, simply refuse to purchase it. I can see the frustration the OP feels as it certainly seems that TM is aiming more for the weekend golfer than the more enlightened/skilled player that frequents this site, but hoping that TM all of a sudden changes direction and puts a focus on churning out Tour type equipment here in the US would be like expecting the Titanic to turn on a dime. I don't see it happening.
[/quote]
Agreed mate.

To be honest this is my first real experience of TM "bashing" so I wasn't aware that it's such a common occurrence. Taylor Made is a marketing machine and while that continues to be the case, they'll continue to sell whatever they want.

[KintamaTP]

OMG Ragamuffin, what have you done? LOL Look at what you started! I had no idea people had such a say about this topic!

[BDoubleG]

I love threads like this! As much as I enjoy getting helpful info on what products to buy, I enjoy hearing peoples' opinions on why a company is great or awful...so long as it stays relatively civilized (which this has thus far)!

...it opens your eyes IMO.