Biggest Crutch(es) on Tour

[StugyGolf]

If my job relied on me hitting the shot, I would want to find the easiest club to hit that still allows me to move the ball around a bit.

I currently play my combo set, but am thinking about going to a combo set with 710 MB up to 6 iron, and then AP1 for the 3-4-5.

I have to make birdie on 18 to make an extra 50,000$..... I sure as hell don't want to have to hit the pin sized sweet spot on my 710MB 3i when I'm 219 out....

[OldSkoolTexan]

[quote name='Cdn_golfer' date='25 February 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1267080893' post='2275865']
If my job relied on me hitting the shot, I would want to find the easiest club to hit that still allows me to move the ball around a bit.

I currently play my combo set, but am thinking about going to a combo set with 710 MB up to 6 iron, and then AP1 for the 3-4-5.

I have to make birdie on 18 to make an extra 50,000$..... I sure as hell don't want to have to hit the pin sized sweet spot on my 710MB 3i when I'm 219 out....
[/quote]
<br><br>
Are you currently on tour? Do you practice avg 8hrs a day, 6 days a week? Not sure why avg golfers think that tour pros need the same help that a weekend golfer does.<br><br>
I REALLY think some guys underestimate just how much time tour level professionals spend practicing. I guess I give them WAY more respect than some ppl do, since I have an idea of how hard they really work.

[bennycoop9882]

[quote name='OldSkoolTexan' date='25 February 2010 - 03:04 AM' timestamp='1267088668' post='2275917']
[quote name='Cdn_golfer' date='25 February 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1267080893' post='2275865']
If my job relied on me hitting the shot, I would want to find the easiest club to hit that still allows me to move the ball around a bit.

I currently play my combo set, but am thinking about going to a combo set with 710 MB up to 6 iron, and then AP1 for the 3-4-5.

I have to make birdie on 18 to make an extra 50,000$..... I sure as hell don't want to have to hit the pin sized sweet spot on my 710MB 3i when I'm 219 out....
[/quote]
<br><br>
Are you currently on tour? Do you practice avg 8hrs a day, 6 days a week? Not sure why avg golfers think that tour pros need the same help that a weekend golfer does.<br><br>
I REALLY think some guys underestimate just how much time tour level professionals spend practicing. I guess I give them WAY more respect than some ppl do, since I have an idea of how hard they really work.
[/quote]

You've got a correct understanding of their skill which would come off as too much respect to someone with the idea that Tour players are just a little better than scratch. Since most people who have ever held a golf club are a long way from that they just assume that scratch is just under tour even though its miles off. For tour pros, they only care about launch monitor numbers which is all we should care about anyway. If they got the right combination of launch angle and spin, they'd put a women's club in play. It just shows how much more secure they are than the rest of us who wouldn't be caught dead with a "game improvement set". Troy Merritt just won the Q school with some API's. The only thing that matters is the way it looks sitting down and the numbers it gives you. A big factor that gets forgotton is the fact that these guys play courses with pretty hard greens with very tight pins and they've got to somehow hoist a 5 iron 9 miles in the air from 200 yards. Its just easier for the to do it with a G15.

[mickeytbones]

I didn't see this mentioned, but I believe Chris Riley is gaming G15's as well.
I don't want to feed the debate going on here, but even Golf Digest's "Hot List" (which should be taken with a grain of salt) says things like "too chunky for a playah's club". That sends the wrong impression to the readers, for sure.
My father plays Cobra s9's, and but for them being too soft in flex, I have hit the ball miles with his irons when we are both at the range. I play Mac Pro C's, and better than a weekend duffer, but I am looking for more game improvement options. Heck, look at Luke Donald's bag (carries 3 and 4 MP Fli-Hi iron hybrids).

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Lefty Cat' date='24 February 2010 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1266988193' post='2273467']
[quote name='bkivlehan' date='24 February 2010 - 12:03 AM' timestamp='1266987807' post='2273453']
[quote name='stickman' date='23 February 2010 - 08:04 PM' timestamp='1266973468' post='2272781']
I believe Vijay goes back and forth with a 9 wood... I think he has a Callaway Steelhead + and a Cleveland Quad Pro.

check this thread out [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/343898-game-inprovement-pics-from-pro-bags/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...-from-pro-bags/[/url]
[/quote]

true but they are bent to the loft of a 3 wood so not quite game improvement
[/quote]


Sorry dude, your wrong. His is bent to around 20-21 degrees I believe. A 9 wood bent to 3 wood loft would only be about 19 degrees open.
[/quote]

I don't know the exact specs, but I know vijay had a 7 wood that was at least somewhere between 5-10 degrees open, that played like a strong 3 when he squared it.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='OldSkoolTexan' date='25 February 2010 - 04:04 AM' timestamp='1267088668' post='2275917']
[quote name='Cdn_golfer' date='25 February 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1267080893' post='2275865']
If my job relied on me hitting the shot, I would want to find the easiest club to hit that still allows me to move the ball around a bit.

I currently play my combo set, but am thinking about going to a combo set with 710 MB up to 6 iron, and then AP1 for the 3-4-5.

I have to make birdie on 18 to make an extra 50,000$..... I sure as hell don't want to have to hit the pin sized sweet spot on my 710MB 3i when I'm 219 out....
[/quote]
<br><br>
Are you currently on tour? Do you practice avg 8hrs a day, 6 days a week? Not sure why avg golfers think that tour pros need the same help that a weekend golfer does.<br><br>
I REALLY think some guys underestimate just how much time tour level professionals spend practicing. I guess I give them WAY more respect than some ppl do, since I have an idea of how hard they really work.
[/quote]

I could ask you the same question, so i will. Are you currently on tour? First you say you expect more from our pros? So now you have expectations for someone that you don't know at all? Ok, and since tour pros practice at least 8 hours a day, maybe they don't want the whole week of 8 hours a day work wasted, just because they mishit the blade and it went in the water short. Cdn's point makes a lot of sense to me, and unless your on tour, I doubt you could possibly stop a 3 iron from 220.

[mattypivs]

GolfNashTN, Where to you get off making an attack like that? This topic is just to see what game impovement clubs are in tour players bags. It makes some people feel good knowing they play the same model club as a tour player. If you are going to say stuff like that then leave, we dont need you here. Also for VJays 9 wood the original post was saying if the club was bent to 3 wood loft not a 7 wood loft. He stated that if it had a 3 wood loft it would be 19 degrees OPEN not loft. Read it over before you bash someone. We are all adults here Its been a long winter and spring is coming soon. Lets try to be nice.

[Lefty Cat]

[quote name='golfNashTN' date='24 February 2010 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1267073492' post='2275709']
[quote]Sorry dude, your wrong. His is bent to around 20-21 degrees I believe. A 9 wood bent to 3 wood loft would only be about 19 degrees open.[/quote

You would be wrong. Vijay used a a Cleveland 9wd bent to a 7wd (21* of loft) not 19*open.
He likes the look of an open clubbface.

And the whole artice amuses me on what so called "crutches" the PGA Tour players use. When not ONE of you that has posted could hold a candle to ANYTHING these pros (listed before) have done on the course. It just makes me laugh at the arrogance of some of the members of this board. I thought coming here (from Bombsquad) would surround me with players that somewhat knew what they were talking about. I guess not (in some respects).
[/quote]


You should learn to read. The guy before me said he was playing a 9 wood bent to a 3 wood loft. I mentioned that for a 9 wood to be bent to 3 wood loft, it would be REDICULOUSLY open and also effecting the bounce of the club negatively. I know Veej likes an open clubhead. Everybody knows that. Drive through.

[OldSkoolTexan]

[quote name='pinhigh27' date='25 February 2010 - 08:08 AM' timestamp='1267106937' post='2276089']
[quote name='OldSkoolTexan' date='25 February 2010 - 04:04 AM' timestamp='1267088668' post='2275917']
[quote name='Cdn_golfer' date='25 February 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1267080893' post='2275865']
If my job relied on me hitting the shot, I would want to find the easiest club to hit that still allows me to move the ball around a bit.

I currently play my combo set, but am thinking about going to a combo set with 710 MB up to 6 iron, and then AP1 for the 3-4-5.

I have to make birdie on 18 to make an extra 50,000$..... I sure as hell don't want to have to hit the pin sized sweet spot on my 710MB 3i when I'm 219 out....
[/quote]
<br><br>
Are you currently on tour? Do you practice avg 8hrs a day, 6 days a week? Not sure why avg golfers think that tour pros need the same help that a weekend golfer does.<br><br>
I REALLY think some guys underestimate just how much time tour level professionals spend practicing. I guess I give them WAY more respect than some ppl do, since I have an idea of how hard they really work.
[/quote]

I could ask you the same question, so i will. Are you currently on tour? First you say you expect more from our pros? So now you have expectations for someone that you don't know at all? Ok, and since tour pros practice at least 8 hours a day, maybe they don't want the whole week of 8 hours a day work wasted, just because they mishit the blade and it went in the water short. Cdn's point makes a lot of sense to me, and unless your on tour, I doubt you could possibly stop a 3 iron from 220.
[/quote]
<br><br>
Did you read my post very well? Did I say was on tour? I know a guy with 2 wins and I know how hard he worked to get to the big show. A SCRATCH golfer couldnt carry a Tour Pros BAG! Saying a Tour Pro needs the same GI irons that weekend amatuer needs is silly. <br><br>
Work on your reading comprehension so that you will understand the level of respect I have for Tour PROFESSIONALS. Even the guys that I dont like to watch, can still tear it up obviously. Those guys may CHOOSE to play GI irons and they can definitely do so but to THINK that they NEED the help is ridiculous. <br><br>
As for that one shot in the water wasting the whole day, that is mental. If you understood what it takes, you would know that. Every guy out there can roll through a jumbo bucket PURE shot after PURE shot. When there is pressure, that's when the mentally prepared guy handles the situation. Maybe a GI iron will give them the confidence to execute under pressure. They definitely have the luxury of CHOOSING to play whatever they like....

[Lefty Cat]

Well played Skool.

[Onebulldogs]

[quote name='mickeytbones' date='25 February 2010 - 08:37 AM' timestamp='1267105036' post='2276049']
I didn't see this mentioned, but I believe Chris Riley is gaming G15's as well.
I don't want to feed the debate going on here, but even Golf Digest's "Hot List" (which should be taken with a grain of salt) says things like "too chunky for a playah's club". That sends the wrong impression to the readers, for sure.
My father plays Cobra s9's, and but for them being too soft in flex, I have hit the ball miles with his irons when we are both at the range. I play Mac Pro C's, and better than a weekend duffer, but I am looking for more game improvement options. Heck, look at Luke Donald's bag (carries 3 and 4 MP Fli-Hi iron hybrids).
[/quote]

It's funny. What I intended as a good natured investigation turned into a serious argument with bad blood b/w some posters.

Like another poster said, if I had to get the ball to a tight pin position to win a PGA Tournament (and $1m+), I would want to do it as easily as possible. Tournament golf is about winning.

As for me, I don't play ultra-GI irons b/c I cannot stand offset. Thus, my AP1's.

[smcupinya]

GI equipment is obviously designed for just that. Everybody wants forgiveness and for some tour pros it makes alot of sense. They can get away with shots that aren't pured and live and die by their short games. I think using GI clubs is smart, to some it just seems like an ego thing with blade/pro series irons.

I am a pretty accomplished amateur golfer (locally, nothing too serious) who played alot of golf back in school and I have always used a good set of cavity back forged irons. I played Callaway X-Tour irons for a long time and recently got a set of Diablo Forged Irons w/ Project X shafts and I love them. I hit the ball very solid for the most part but these irons make it easier to do so, and on a bad day I'm sure glad I have them. None of us hit the ball pure all the time, so why not focus on making our bad shots better.

Just saying, good players who choose to benefit from GI equipment are taking advantage of the technology offered and I think thats smart.

[ajgoodal.704]

What about when Corey Pavin used to play Cleveland VASs. Thats pretty game improvement. I think its cool that pros use GI equipment. Goes to show the final paycheck means more than ego.

[aussiehack]

[quote name='hd.softail' date='25 February 2010 - 11:42 AM' timestamp='1267062140' post='2275300']
G15s in a couple bags....Sutherland, McCarron and KJ Choi I believe...That's huge deal to me ...
[/quote]

Sutherland and McCarron with G15?? I thought they would still be using the i3+ that they have played for years and years! I play G15's and its cool to think model irons are being played on the PGA Tour!

[gators78]

[quote name='aussiehack' date='23 March 2010 - 06:24 AM' timestamp='1269339877' post='2335056']
[quote name='hd.softail' date='25 February 2010 - 11:42 AM' timestamp='1267062140' post='2275300']
G15s in a couple bags....Sutherland, McCarron and KJ Choi I believe...That's huge deal to me ...
[/quote]

Sutherland and McCarron with G15?? I thought they would still be using the i3+ that they have played for years and years! I play G15's and its cool to think model irons are being played on the PGA Tour!
[/quote]

I think if you check out the Bay Hill pics you'll see McCarron is still gaming the I3+. However to add to your list Garrett Willis is using G15s.

[Obsessotron]

[quote name='Sean2' date='23 February 2010 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1266978004' post='2272989']
This is a funny thread. The last time I checked you win golf tournaments by having the lowest score, not on what equipment your playing.
[/quote]


[quote name='Sean2' date='24 February 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1267031128' post='2274134']
If you look at the photos from the various tour events they post on this site you will see a wide variety of GI equipment in players' bags.
[/quote]

Thanks for the second helpful post in this thread captain obvious, if it's alright with you we would like to continue discussing the GI equipment now.

[farmer]

Look at every driver in every bag. Not a lot of tiny persimmons in there.

[OldSkoolTexan]

[quote name='Obsessotron' date='23 March 2010 - 08:54 AM' timestamp='1269356066' post='2335364']
[quote name='Sean2' date='24 February 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1267031128' post='2274134']
If you look at the photos from the various tour events they post on this site you will see a wide variety of GI equipment in players' bags.
[/quote]

Thanks for the second helpful post in this thread captain obvious, if it's alright with you we would like to continue discussing the GI equipment now.
[/quote]
<br><br>
DUDE, you're a d***k BUT I was actually laughing outloud after reading this! Good dig.. Hope we dont both get deleted from this thread as well.<br><br>
Didnt KJ almost win with his bag full of G15 irons? Miller kept commenting on how solid KJ was striking the ball so Im wondering why he is gaming the G15s. You would think KJ would atleast play a nice forged player cavity.

[suavemilagro]

I would have to say, and i read the whole thread, that no one has mentioned putters. Freakin 2 ball odyssey is the biggest game improvement weekend warrior putter in the world, and like half of the pro's play them. A putter is a blade/answer style and these Star ship enterprise/sabertooth/batmobile on a stick putters must be included in the game improvement list. I always crack up when i see a Tri-hot steel or some ultra wild contraption being used. Hey putting in personal and im not knocking anyone for using anything, but putters have come soooooooo far in the game improvement market, that its not a suprise when someone uses a putter bigger than their driver.

[OldSkoolTexan]

[quote name='suavemilagro' date='23 March 2010 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1269389694' post='2336459']
I would have to say, and i read the whole thread, that no one has mentioned putters. Freakin 2 ball odyssey is the biggest game improvement weekend warrior putter in the world, and like half of the pro's play them. A putter is a blade/answer style and these Star ship enterprise/sabertooth/batmobile on a stick putters must be included in the game improvement list. I always crack up when i see a Tri-hot steel or some ultra wild contraption being used. Hey putting in personal and im not knocking anyone for using anything, but putters have come soooooooo far in the game improvement market, that its not a suprise when someone uses a putter bigger than their driver.
[/quote]
<br>
Yeah, those starship putters are ridiculous. 4 balls and 8 sight lines. Cameron even put 3 or 4 sight lines on his BALL MARKER/alignment tool. Really??
<br><br>You never see any of the starship/4ball/MOI crew consistently leading the stats in the putting category though.

[Heavyhail]

[b]Hey!!! I like my 2 ball!![/b]

The Clevland VAS has to be the worst of the worst!!!! That and every Long putter!!

How bout John Daly when he played that white kevlar headed driver...cant think of the name.

[Obsessotron]

[quote name='OldSkoolTexan' date='24 March 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1269407419' post='2337170']

Yeah, those starship putters are ridiculous. 4 balls and 8 sight lines. Cameron even put 3 or 4 sight lines on his BALL MARKER/alignment tool. Really??
<br><br>You never see any of the starship/4ball/MOI crew consistently leading the stats in the putting category though.
[/quote]

Retief Goosen's putter currently looks like a laptop computer attached to a flagpole! I never found these types of putters to be that helpful either, but I guess you can get some pretty bad putting yips if you are playing for millions.

[Samps]

An anser style putter is also game improvement. It was the original game improvement putter.

Has a pro ever used one of those "chipper" clubs?

[Sandman600]

Don't mess with Texas

[Obsessotron]

[quote name='Samps' date='24 March 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1269448450' post='2337852']
An anser style putter is also game improvement. It was the original game improvement putter.

Has a pro ever used one of those "chipper" clubs?
[/quote]

You never know.... but I highly doubt it since I have never experienced one that creates enough spin for the types of shots these guys play.

[Shanks For The Memories]

[quote name='smcupinya' date='25 February 2010 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1267152897' post='2277813']
GI equipment is obviously designed for just that. Everybody wants forgiveness and for some tour pros it makes alot of sense. They can get away with shots that aren't pured and live and die by their short games. I think using GI clubs is smart, to some it just seems like an ego thing with blade/pro series irons.[/quote]

I have noticed this too. The #2 golfer in the world, Steve Stricker, plays Titleist Cavity Backs. The tour pros use what they want without need for ego. They could wipe the floor with even the best of us, and yet so many of us talk about how we'd never carry anything but blades.

It's really pathetic. You should carry the clubs that fit you, no matter what. My driver shaft says "R" flex on it. I have it tipped down to a hard S/light X. Do you think I give a damn what people think? You think I try to cover the "R" up? Why? I carry cavity back long irons, because I know that I may miss the center of the club face.

But day after day, I see 15 handicaps with impossible to use clubs. Blades, X shafts, and making the game way too hard on themselves. Why do they have such big egos? Sure, the best players in the world prefer cavity back and hybrids, but somehow, us amateurs are better off with blades? Be serious.

This thread was not about ego, or about who's dick is longer, it's about what pros use GI clubs. So, instead of telling us how tour pros should be playing blades, stick to the damn topic at hand. Some of us are curious as to which tour pros use game improvement clubs.

Heck, for some people, it may be what convinces them it's OK for them to use it!

[golf_junkie27]

[quote name='OldSkoolTexan' date='25 February 2010 - 01:32 AM' timestamp='1267075974' post='2275783']
[quote name='golfNashTN' date='24 February 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1267073492' post='2275709']
[quote]Sorry dude, your wrong. His is bent to around 20-21 degrees I believe. A 9 wood bent to 3 wood loft would only be about 19 degrees open.[/quote

You would be wrong. Vijay used a a Cleveland 9wd bent to a 7wd (21* of loft) not 19*open.
He likes the look of an open clubbface.

And the whole artice amuses me on what so called "crutches" the PGA Tour players use. When not ONE of you that has posted could hold a candle to ANYTHING these pros (listed before) have done on the course. It just makes me laugh at the arrogance of some of the members of this board. I thought coming here (from Bombsquad) would surround me with players that somewhat knew what they were talking about. I guess not (in some respects).
[/quote]
<br><br>
Unlike yourself, MANY of us expect more from Tour Pros that spend 8 hours a day, 6 days a week with a club in their hands playing and practicing. We dont expect them to have a need for, or want to game, GI clubs....
[/quote]

Or maybe they don't practice 8 hours a day six times a week. Perhaps, these guys have families that are a little more important than golf. Maybe, these guys have such a busy playing and travel schedule that they can't practice as much as they would like or perhaps they have been on tour for so long (Rocco, Kenny Perry) that they have earned the right to play whatever they please and don't care what the equipment looks like.

My expectation of the pros is that they, like me, play what works. And since only 28 out of the Top 125 only play blades...would suggest that your level of expectation is not theirs.

BTW, I'm not picking on you. From looking at WITB if most pros, they all carry at least one hybrid, have putters with various alignment aids, etc., that suggests they are looking to make the game easier and not harder. Isn't that the objective?

[golf_junkie27]

[quote name='Obsessotron' date='24 March 2010 - 10:40 AM' timestamp='1269441639' post='2337625']
[quote name='OldSkoolTexan' date='24 March 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1269407419' post='2337170']

Yeah, those starship putters are ridiculous. 4 balls and 8 sight lines. Cameron even put 3 or 4 sight lines on his BALL MARKER/alignment tool. Really??
<br><br>You never see any of the starship/4ball/MOI crew consistently leading the stats in the putting category though.
[/quote]

Retief Goosen's putter currently looks like a laptop computer attached to a flagpole! I never found these types of putters to be that helpful either, but I guess you can get some pretty bad putting yips if you are playing for millions.
[/quote]

I heard Frank Nobilo say that Goosen's putter was created at MIT. Judging from all the putts he's been making lately there has to be some serious technology in there.

[scottland]

[quote name='Shanks For The Memories' date='24 March 2010 - 12:02 PM' timestamp='1269457365' post='2338144']
[quote name='smcupinya' date='25 February 2010 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1267152897' post='2277813']
GI equipment is obviously designed for just that. Everybody wants forgiveness and for some tour pros it makes alot of sense. They can get away with shots that aren't pured and live and die by their short games. I think using GI clubs is smart, to some it just seems like an ego thing with blade/pro series irons.[/quote]
But day after day, I see 15 handicaps with impossible to use clubs. Blades, X shafts, and making the game way too hard on themselves. Why do they have such big egos? Sure, the best players in the world prefer cavity back and hybrids, but somehow, us amateurs are better off with blades? Be serious.
[/quote]

If they want to play blades, let them play blades. Why get all worked up over it.

[DH48]

Didn't Bobby Jones carry a concave faced sand wedge when he won the grand slam? It was deemed game improvement enough to later be outlawed.

Sand wedges with lots of bounce and thick soles were originally considered revolutionary. I guess my point is that today's game improvement sometimes becomes the next generations standard.