Mark O'Meara and Hank Haney Swing

[Hstead]

Not Tiger-Like

I can't help but notice, sitting here watching the Seniors and Mark O'Meara, that Mark doesn't swing anything like Tiger. I personally think Tiger is too laid off. I know Haney likes that laid off position, but to me it is not a good spot to swing from. O'Mears is no where near that position at the top. Mark has the club in a very different position, and it is not even close to being laid off. Mark has his club right down the line at the top. Just thought I would throw that out there and see what the WRX community thought.

[TaylorMadeAP25]

[quote name='Hstead' date='25 April 2010 - 01:34 PM' timestamp='1272220447' post='2399761']
I can't help but notice, sitting here watching the Seniors and Mark O'Meara, that Mark doesn't swing anything like Tiger. I personally think Tiger is too laid off. I know Haney likes that laid off position, but to me it is not a good spot to swing from. O'Mears is no where near that position at the top. Mark has the club in a very different position, and it is not even close to being laid off. Mark has his club right down the line at the top. Just thought I would throw that out there and see what the WRX community thought.
[/quote]


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwq9NyZnT8c&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwq9NyZnT8c&feature=related[/url] i notice this too, I think mark likes wokring it from right to left also...i really like his swing

[DLiver]

O'Meara stopped working with Haney years ago.

[mat562]

O'Meara's swing through the '80s and '90s was beautiful.

It's tough to criticise the best player in the world, but in my humble opinion Woods' current swing isn't a patch on the one he had a decade ago when he was under Butch Harmon's wing. His driving, in particular, is much less impressive than it used to be. To be honest, his driving isn't impressive [i]at all[/i] these days.

[farmer]

I agree with Mat-tiger is not the same post-Harmon. O'Meara still has a great swing, Haney or not.

[rainkingjr]

I'll pile on here. I have thought for along time that Tiger's swing has become way too laid off. What amazes me is that he has still won the majors he has under Haney's watch. On the flip side, I think Haney's approach has cost Tiger a few here more recently. I am not saying Tiger needs to go back to Butch (He really should though), but he definitely needs to dump Haney. I wouldn't go to Haney or Leadbetter for free. Just my two cents.

[Smitty78]

IMHO the problem isn't Haney. All top tier instructors know their stuff. The problem is trying to say no to the biggest egomaniac in the history of golf and explain to him that:

A) You're wrong.
B) You don't know everything about the golf swing (not even your own) and
C) You will NEVER be Ben Hogan or Moe Norman.

Being told "no" occasionally and being kept on a shorter leash with his swing is probably what led him to leave Butch. Worst mistake (golf wise) he's ever made IMO. His swing was incredible circa 2000-2001.

And I do love the way that O'meara swings, despite being tired of seeing him on those medicus commercials.

[Hstead]

O'Meara's plane is awesome IMHO. I love his tempo too. I didn't realize Mark was no longer a "Haney Guy". I have watched and read a lot from Haney and I just do not like the position that he likes to see at the top. Anyone who has been laidoff before, speaking from experience here, knows how hard it is to predict your miss, can be a snap hook or a big block slice, a la Tiger. I just cannot for the life of me figure out why Tiger, the so named Best Player of All Time, cannot find a fairway to save his life. I know his club is moving fast etc etc, but there are a lot of guys that have clubheads moving fast and they seem to keep it within 30 yards of the fairway 99% of the time, whereas Tiger can miss the fairway by 80 yards sometimes. Something is not right with his swing period, and I think it is the laidoff plane. But, I am not getting paid millions to do makeovers of Stars either.

[rainkingjr]

[quote name='Hstead' date='26 April 2010 - 08:44 AM' timestamp='1272285853' post='2401133']
O'Meara's plane is awesome IMHO. I love his tempo too. I didn't realize Mark was no longer a "Haney Guy". I have watched and read a lot from Haney and I just do not like the position that he likes to see at the top. Anyone who has been laidoff before, speaking from experience here, knows how hard it is to predict your miss, can be a snap hook or a big block slice, a la Tiger. I just cannot for the life of me figure out why Tiger, the so named Best Player of All Time, cannot find a fairway to save his life. I know his club is moving fast etc etc, but there are a lot of guys that have clubheads moving fast and they seem to keep it within 30 yards of the fairway 99% of the time, whereas Tiger can miss the fairway by 80 yards sometimes. Something is not right with his swing period, and I think it is the laidoff plane. But, I am not getting paid millions to do makeovers of Stars either.
[/quote]


I totally agree with you. I also know from experience. I may not be Tiger (7 handicap), but laid off is laid off no matter who you are. I struggled with being too laid off for about two and a half years. My misses were exactly what you described, snap hook or big block. My iron game suffered big time. Solid two club sometimes three club loss of distance. I can't remember seeing Tiger come up short so often. His distance control was without peer in 200-2001.

[scores]

Laid off is better than across the line at the top. Laid off is a good swing for certian body types and you need the equipment to support that plane(huge) lie angle has to be correct.

I think Tigars swing at times looks great and think most of his issues are with his turn/pivot. I am no expert either but someone gave me a tip on this board where they freed up my arms and from there I could go at the ball hard with the driver.

Is it perfected noway but I am seeing progress I am now able to make a turn into the ball without worrying about drop kicking the hell out of it.

He is a young teacher that is making a name for himself big time.

[MWM400]

I always thought Tiger switched to the Haney swing in order to reduce the torque on his left knee (the one that has now been reconstructed). I don't know if there's any truth to that and I have no idea where I heard it. But what I remember reading was that he didn't think he could maintain his late 90s, early 2000s swing without ruining his knee in the long-term.

While I can't say whether he's better off with Butch or Hank, I don't think the switch to Hank has been all bad. I think his driving is worse, but I believe he's a more consistent iron player and I think that's what he was looking for. IMO, the difference is that when he's on, he's not as dominant as when he was on under Butch. But I also think he's less erratic overall. His bad rounds are much better now.

From '97-'02 he won a lot of majors, but when he wasn't winning, he wasn't always in contention. Since the beginning of 2005 he has still won a lot of majors, but other than the two cuts he missed (one of them being after his dad's death) he's finished lower than 6th one time (he was 12th). He has 6 wins, 5 seconds, a third, 2 fourths, and a 6th. So I think there has been trade-offs. He's not capable of domination as much, but he's rarely playing himself out of contention either. Which one is better? I don't really know, but the swing he had a decade ago I have my doubts could have been maintained as he got older.

[KYGolfer11]

[quote name='MWM400' date='26 April 2010 - 09:51 PM' timestamp='1272340309' post='2403208']
I always thought Tiger switched to the Haney swing in order to reduce the torque on his left knee (the one that has now been reconstructed). I don't know if there's any truth to that and I have no idea where I heard it. But what I remember reading was that he didn't think he could maintain his late 90s, early 2000s swing without ruining his knee in the long-term.

While I can't say whether he's better off with Butch or Hank, I don't think the switch to Hank has been all bad. I think his driving is worse, but I believe he's a more consistent iron player and I think that's what he was looking for. IMO, the difference is that when he's on, he's not as dominant as when he was on under Butch. But I also think he's less erratic overall. His bad rounds are much better now.

From '97-'02 he won a lot of majors, but when he wasn't winning, he wasn't always in contention. Since the beginning of 2005 he has still won a lot of majors, but other than the two cuts he missed (one of them being after his dad's death) he's finished lower than 6th one time (he was 12th). He has 6 wins, 5 seconds, a third, 2 fourths, and a 6th. So I think there has been trade-offs. He's not capable of domination as much, but he's rarely playing himself out of contention either. Which one is better? I don't really know, but the swing he had a decade ago I have my doubts could have been maintained as he got older.
[/quote]

Completely agree here. People tend to forget, as it is easy to, that TW has ALWAYS had Driver/FW issues and ALWAYS will. If you take away the possibly greatest ball striking display in golf history (late '99-early '01) TW still struggled with the Driver and hitting FW's. Go back and watch tape of him in some tourneys back then... it wasn't as amazing as some make it out to be. People also forget how he felt he wasn't improving with Butch (and we can debate that day and night) beginning after the Open in '02, thus eventually leading to the separation. In late '02 and all through '03, still using Butch's methods, before being fully with Haney in '04, TW hit it all over the map. Couldn't find a fairway to save his life. Again, TW's even admitted himself, anyone can TIME a swing either for a day, week, month, or in his case years and make it work... just depends on which method you prefer. He was able to time Butch's swing perfectly, and has been able to do so with Haney's as well. Let's not also forget about all the injuries he's sustained during his time with Haney that's impacted his swing. He even admittedly said it took him almost all of last year to get off his back foot b/c he had to swing that way for a year with all the leg injuries.

[ej002]

Too laid off? Tell that to Hogan. That is where Tiger is looking. And IMO his swing is soo close to being his best. It looked great at the Masters, but he is in the uncomfortable phase. Just wait, he will figure it out.

I also dont think that is what Haney is teaching. Tiger does his own thing, Haney just helps him get where he wants to go.

[Hstead]

[quote name='ej002' date='27 April 2010 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1272426781' post='2405524']
Too laid off? Tell that to Hogan. That is where Tiger is looking. And IMO his swing is soo close to being his best. It looked great at the Masters, but he is in the uncomfortable phase. Just wait, he will figure it out.

I also dont think that is what Haney is teaching. Tiger does his own thing, Haney just helps him get where he wants to go.
[/quote]


I don't think Hogan was anywhere similar to Tiger in regards to back swing positions. If anything, Hogan took the club back a little inside whereas Tiger takes the club back more on the outside of the plane. Haney teaches to keep the shaft either on the original shaft plane line from address or parallel to it all the way to the top. Hogan has his club straight down the line at the top when he reached parallel to the ground and beyond, which Hogan took his driver past parallel to the ground. Tiger's shaft will point left of the target even when he reaches parallel to the ground, which IMHO is laid off.

Only time will tell. Hogan surely never had the problems that Tiger does hitting the fairway. I just find it so hard to understand how Tiger can be the "best player ever" and yet can hit it so poorly from the tee. Something has to be off for Tiger to be so great at everything else golf, but he can't hit the ball consistently off of the tee.

[WesleyD]

ok, but what's wrong with this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGZtkEzC7fw&feature=PlayList&p=50D9FC9A8274B3F9&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1

tigers swing in 2005, 2006 was a lot different than it is now. I think that is when he was following hank's direction the most, then in 2007, he started to go a little bit different direction, a little more upright, then 2008 a little more, 09 more.

[courserecordmaker23]

i like tigers swing in 2005 much better. He should get back with Butch