Hogan in 5Lessons: Waggle = Backswing (BS)

[grahler]

When one waggles the club moves away from the ball (BS) and moves back towards the ball (DS). IMO Hogans waggle is a preview of the WHOLE shot. I particularly focus on how I am going to release the club on ds just me...I am also a guy who never practice swings-I align set grip and feet and posture waggle and go...works for me.

[1lovegolf24]

Along with what Mr. Hogan wrote in , Five Lessons, I believe Hogan's waggle was his entire swing motion. It is the nucleus of the motion his body will support and mirror.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='1lovegolf24' timestamp='1308939255' post='3332970']
Along with what Mr. Hogan wrote in , Five Lessons, I believe Hogan's waggle was his entire swing motion. It is the nucleus of the motion his body will support and mirror.
[/quote]

I think that's the main point of the OP. Some will say the action puts the club too inside early/too underplane. The hands behind the ball is the built-in guard against that, in addition to pointed-in and stationary right elbow up to mid-bs.

[fats]

On the waggle thing you guys should ask Martinez his thoughts on that...he had interesting thoughts on that scenario.

[alansmithdc]

Interesting to note, the waggle described in Five Lessons, is different than the one shown in youtube videos.  The videos might just be a shortened version .

[mufasis]

I think the waggle is the most important part of a good swing because it gives you a solid feel for hinging on plane. If you stand with a mirror behind you DTL you can easily see how the waggle is right on plane!

[alansmithdc]

Cool

[SwagGolf6112]

So you guys are saying that the only thing Hogan did differently on his actual take away is merely the turning of his shoulders while everything else is the same as his waggle? Interesting indeed...

 

--Circle--          = The clubhead

 

--Yellow line--  = Shoulders (both on the waggle and actual swing)

 

--Green line--   = Right arm and shaft relationship (both on the waggle and actual swing)

 

--Red line--      = Left arm and shaft relationship on the waggle.

 

--Blue line--     = Left arm and shaft relationship on the actual swing.

 

 

 

And also notice that when he waggles the club his left wrist bows while in the actual take away it is cupped all the way to the top of the backswing. 

 

Or as some might call his actual takeaway the "handle leads the clubhead" style. As opposed to the common "hands yank the clubhead behind" style of most high handicappers.

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If he really did what you guys are saying. At the top of his backswing wouldn't he look more like this image below?

 

 

I'm not saying you guys are wrong. I just would like an explanation from any biomechanical expert how did he do what he said he did but actually look so different on the actual swing. Cheers!

[moehogan]

His waggle is the feel of grip pressures and the wrist conditions they produce at delivery (P6). He’s rehearsing getting himself “into a position to hit”. It has nothing to do with his backswing.

Edited September 21, 2020 by moehogan

[chipa]

I think the waggle is letting the back of the right hand cup back in the correct position with the forearm to get ready for the downswing as the right hand is very passive on the takeaway and the initial part of the downswing as that was the classical method.

[SwagGolf6112]

4 hours ago, moehogan said:

His waggle is the feel of grip pressures and the wrist conditions they produce at delivery (P6). He’s rehearsing getting himself “into a position to hit”. It has nothing to do with his backswing.

 

Ok this makes perfect sense now. Thank you sir.

[southplains]

Just a suggestion - put his book away for awhile and just watch his youtube swing videos, over and over, while holding a golf club.  This method of learning is similar to the old Sybervision Geiberger/Sheehan videos.  You can even dream the videos in your sleep.  Try to feel what he feels.  Listen to the videos when he talks about it, not when others talk about his swing. Then return to the book to see how he describes it. Be Hogan.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by southplains

[SwagGolf6112]

On 10/1/2020 at 9:57 PM, southplains said:

Just a suggestion - put his book away for awhile and just watch his youtube swing videos, over and over, while holding a golf club.  This method of learning is similar to the old Sybervision Geiberger/Sheehan videos.  You can even dream the videos in your sleep.  Try to feel what he feels.  Listen to the videos when he talks about it, not when others talk about his swing. Then return to the book to see how he describes it. Be Hogan.

 

 

Not with the golf swing and especially not with Hogan's. There are way too many hidden mechanics in his swing. Invisible to the naked or untrained eyes. Hell, not even today technology and biomechanical knowledge can solve it. No offense to any biomechanical experts here. It's not your fault.

[chipa]

15 hours ago, SwagGolf6112 said:

 

Not with the golf swing and especially not with Hogan's. There are way too many hidden mechanics in his swing. Invisible to the naked or untrained eyes. Hell, not even today technology and biomechanical knowledge can solve it. No offense to any biomechanical experts here. It's not your fault.

 

As far as I can tell the golf swing is still art and not science based on the standard scientific definition because if any "method" were successful it would have to be with anyone who could perform the correct technique. 

 

As far as I can tell from an engineers perspective trying to identify the correct forces and sequence and geometry, the hands somewhat oppose at address and should biomechanically "connect" with the arms early in the backswing so that everything feels connected, in other words the movements are somewhat mechanically constrained to a more or less biomechanicaly defined path if the correct grip pressure and muscles are used as well as the right sequence.

[SwagGolf6112]

5 hours ago, chipa said:

 

As far as I can tell the golf swing is still art and not science based on the standard scientific definition... --> And don't forget that science was once "magic/mystic/secret/voodoo" before human knew how to collect data through research and must be analyzed and interpreted to be used as evidence. So in short the golf swing or to be more specific Hogan's swing could be as well. But most of us falls short on the "imagination" front in search for his formula.

 

As far as I can tell from an engineers perspective trying to identify the correct forces and sequence and geometry, the hands somewhat oppose at address and should biomechanically "connect" with the arms early in the backswing so that everything feels connected... --> Correct, as evident in all great swing. The triangle hardly collapse on the initial takeaway. 

**Minus some strange variant of "setting the club then rotating the shoulders" style. But that's few and far between. And will usually lack power and longevity in the game. 

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in other words the movements are somewhat mechanically constrained to a more or less biomechanically defined path if the correct grip pressure and muscles are used as well as the right sequence... --> You sir are scratching on the gates of Hogan's secret with this statement alone. Keep searching in this direction. You'll soon find it.

 

Now we're talking! 😀

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by SwagGolf6112

[ChipNRun]

On 6/18/2010 at 6:25 PM, michaelgb888 said:

Hogan said in 5L: the waggle is a miniature practice swing or dry run for the shot (page 65, last 2 sentences); you can practically rehearse the swing with the waggle (page 66, 3rd par, 1st sentence);

 

Several instructors, while not directly invoking Hogan, say the waggle also releases tension and previews motion. After all, the actual golf swing involves motion, not static posturing.

 

When I really blow a shot, often the bad set-up is that I was completely still for two or three seconds before starting the backswing. Completely still can lead to either a too slow-slide or too jerky a backswing... and undesirable ball flight.

[Jeselnik]

Happy Holidays.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Jeselnik