Golf.com Article on Equipment Counterfeiting

[InTheHole]

Good article on golf.com about equipment counterfeiting.

 

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1999753-0,00.html

 

Maybe this is so widespread that it can't be shut down, but I can't help but believe that the Chinese government doesn't really have their heart in fixing the problem. They seem to be doing enough to say 'look, we're doing something' but then these guys are back in business a day later with only a small fine and slap on the wrist.

[cz13X4]

some guy came into work with fake ap2's and vokey's. He thought they were completely legit and even said he was skeptical about buying online but they were legit so he wasn't worried. I shook my head and broke his heart, gladly my co workers backed me up and he was maaaaaaad. Not the first fake set of stuff I have seen, I see a lot.

[justhittheshot]

I would not touch a set of AP2s on Ebay right now. There is probly more than a 8-1 chance they are fake if they are on ebay.....

[hogan64]

I hate to say it, but I don't feel sorry for the OEM's, or the consumers who buy the fakes. Keep your factories and jobs in the U.S and you won't have to deal with the Chinese counterfeiters stealing your designs, and, you could pay American workers a decent wage with the money you spend/lose on lost sales and chasing fakes. Buy your product from an authorized local business, and you won't get ripped off, not to mention you'll actually be supporting your local economy. China is taking a dump on the U.S. economy and we're all playing the fiddle while they do it. Support your local Golf Pro!

[sheldonjhacker]

[quote name='hogan64' date='30 June 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1277953083' post='2548157']
I hate to say it, but I don't feel sorry for the OEM's, or the consumers who buy the fakes. Keep your factories and jobs in the U.S and you won't have to deal with the Chinese counterfeiters stealing your designs, and, you could pay American workers a decent wage with the money you spend/lose on lost sales and chasing fakes. Buy your product from an authorized local business, and you won't get ripped off, not to mention you'll actually be supporting your local economy. China is taking a dump on the U.S. economy and we're all playing the fiddle while they do it. Support your local Golf Pro!
[/quote]

+ 1,000,000,000 !!!

[mozgolf]

I dont feel sorry for the OEMs either. I am sure their profit margins have gone thru the roof using cheap labour and that probably more than covers the loss in sales. Not sure but a factory worker in the States probably earns a day what the Chinese counterpart gets in a month, or something pretty close to it. Thats a big difference.

At the end of the day golf clubs are probably as cheap to buy now as they have ever been so why not just buy from a reliable source

[varsityhacker]

An OEM only has 2 choices in manufacturing golf clubs. Outsource to China or other countries with cheap labor and sell for a price point of xx or manufacture here in the US with higher labor costs and charge more then xx. Now if they choose to manufacture here they have to charge more to make the same profit, no company is in business to not maximize profit. Their higher priced goods now have to compete against other OEM's gear that is cheaper. Maybe some will buy because they are made in the USA and want to support the local economy, however the majority of buyers are looking for the best deal and will only buy at the lowest price point they can get. That is why the counterfeiters on EBay make a killing, the American consumer has been programmed to buy at the best sale price they can get. Until the American consumer shifts his thinking and is willing to pay a premium for a product then the OEM's have no other real choice then to outsource overseas to make the product at the cheapest price point.

Look for manufacturing to be moving out of China and into India and other countries as problems with the rising cost of labor and work demands increases in China.

Even with all the problems of counterfeits it's still cheaper in the long run to make overseas.

[justhittheshot]

[quote name='hogan64' date='30 June 2010 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1277953083' post='2548157']
I hate to say it, but I don't feel sorry for the OEM's, or the consumers who buy the fakes. Keep your factories and jobs in the U.S and you won't have to deal with the Chinese counterfeiters stealing your designs, and, you could pay American workers a decent wage with the money you spend/lose on lost sales and chasing fakes. Buy your product from an authorized local business, and you won't get ripped off, not to mention you'll actually be supporting your local economy. China is taking a dump on the U.S. economy and we're all playing the fiddle while they do it. Support your local Golf Pro!
[/quote]



Does that mean instead of paying $900 for a set of AP2s with S300 shafts we can pay $1500 for those same irons because they are made here? What does that do to Taylormade's pricing? Anyone working for TM would have job security based on the parade of drivers every six months, but "TP" drivers would be $800-$900.....

[InTheHole]

While I don't necessarily feel sorry for companies who send American jobs oversees, it's not 100% their fault either.

As is hinted at by the article, the Chinese government largely turns a blind eye to the problem. And golf is just the tip of the iceberg. Counterfeiting in other industries is much bigger business in China than golf clubs. And many of the people engaging in the practice look at is as their "right." They work in a factory where legitimate product is made, they take it home and start a family business counterfeiting the product- they would be dirt poor if it wasn't for the fact that they had access to the original so they could make a copy. And they take full advantage.

The government there is probably partner to a lot of it and turns a blind eye. Let's not forget that this is a communist government and a lot of baggage comes along with that, for sure.

[hogan234]

[quote name='hogan64' date='30 June 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1277953083' post='2548157']
I hate to say it, but I don't feel sorry for the OEM's, or the consumers who buy the fakes. Keep your factories and jobs in the U.S and you won't have to deal with the Chinese counterfeiters stealing your designs, and, you could pay American workers a decent wage with the money you spend/lose on lost sales and chasing fakes. Buy your product from an authorized local business, and you won't get ripped off, not to mention you'll actually be supporting your local economy. China is taking a dump on the U.S. economy and we're all playing the fiddle while they do it. Support your local Golf Pro!
[/quote]

Agreed. Unfortunately, almost all OEMs have foundries in China most likely due to cheaper labor. If clubs were mfg'd in the US, there may be much less counterfeiting.

[jorfely305]

I would send my production to China too if that meant my profits would go up. Anyone on this forum would in a heartbeat. You cant get upset with the golf club companies. Making clubs here in the states would mean the prices would double and then we would be pissed that drivers cost $800. Get mad at the damn Chinese government who is probably sponsoring counterfeiting.

[zanna5910]

[quote name='sheldonjhacker' date='30 June 2010 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1277953603' post='2548171']
[quote name='hogan64' date='30 June 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1277953083' post='2548157']
I hate to say it, but I don't feel sorry for the OEM's, or the consumers who buy the fakes. Keep your factories and jobs in the U.S and you won't have to deal with the Chinese counterfeiters stealing your designs, and, you could pay American workers a decent wage with the money you spend/lose on lost sales and chasing fakes. Buy your product from an authorized local business, and you won't get ripped off, not to mention you'll actually be supporting your local economy. China is taking a dump on the U.S. economy and we're all playing the fiddle while they do it. Support your local Golf Pro!
[/quote]

+ 1,000,000,000 !!!
[/quote]


+ 1,000,000,000 more

We pay them next to nothing to make them for us, then they realize how to do it, do it on their own, and make 10,000% more money. Isn't this the capitalist dream?

An $800 dollar driver would be terrible though... There are alot of club ho's on here that wouldn't be as much ho'ing at 800 a driver. Then again, the OEM's would start using worse material to keep the price down, giving us the same price for a worse club....

[senseigolfer]

[quote name='hogan64' date='30 June 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1277953083' post='2548157']
I hate to say it, but I don't feel sorry for the OEM's, or the consumers who buy the fakes. Keep your factories and jobs in the U.S and you won't have to deal with the Chinese counterfeiters stealing your designs, and, you could pay American workers a decent wage with the money you spend/lose on lost sales and chasing fakes. Buy your product from an authorized local business, and you won't get ripped off, not to mention you'll actually be supporting your local economy. China is taking a dump on the U.S. economy and we're all playing the fiddle while they do it. Support your local Golf Pro!
[/quote]

Best Comment I have read in a LONG time!!!

[sooperstring]

[quote name='hogan64' date='30 June 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1277953083' post='2548157']
I hate to say it, but I don't feel sorry for the OEM's, or the consumers who buy the fakes. Keep your factories and jobs in the U.S and you won't have to deal with the Chinese counterfeiters stealing your designs, and, you could pay American workers a decent wage with the money you spend/lose on lost sales and chasing fakes. Buy your product from an authorized local business, and you won't get ripped off, not to mention you'll actually be supporting your local economy. China is taking a dump on the U.S. economy and we're all playing the fiddle while they do it. Support your local Golf Pro!
[/quote]

So, I suppose, disclaimer: I have no specific knowledge about golf club manufacture.

That said.

1) The difference in price between Chinese labor and US labor is not small. It's enormous. I don't know about golf clubs specifically, but in my field, producing in the US isn't even a vague possibility. We would be out of business in a matter of months.

2) The difference in timetables between China and the US also goes to China. Domestic skilled labor is almost all unionized, and is guaranteed a certain workweek (unless you want to pay a 50% premium per unit). If you need a vendor in China to speed up delivery, they are willing to at least accommodate to get future business. American vendors don't even negotiate. Really, they can't negotiate.

3) Every time I read a post about how production tolerances in China are an issue, and an OEM (typically Ping) should do their manufacturing domestically, I laugh. Out loud. Domestic manufacturing is almost uniformly worse than Chinese manufacturing - largely because their overhead is so much higher (due to labor costs and import tariffs on raw materials - you'll start to notice a pattern when it comes to laws created for domestic protectionism) so they can't eat the cost of out-of-tolerance units. If you want to look to some countries who have issues hitting specs, try having something made in South America. Or Vietnam. But China probably has the best QA in the world, on the whole. Definitely better than most American vendors, for the cost.

4) The issue isn't country of production. It's, again, the American consumer who's been taught to treat EVERYTHING as a commodity, without even realizing it. American consumers don't do cost/benefit analysis - they just do cost. The place where you're totally right is - people should buy their stuff from licensed outlets, mostly from local stores instead of trying to save a buck on the e-bay or unlicensed websites.