I hit down on the ball...

[Insidious2]

...but still flip through

Anyone have any specific ideas for me aside from "just doing it"? I'm not sure how much an impact board would help me as my divots are always infront of my ball. Maybe some sort of impact bag a foot or two infront of me to make sure I reach out and get it?

Instead of pushing the club head forward after the divot I seem to flip/chicken wing to the follow through. UGH!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DZupvQOuF0

[caryk]

Do you honestly hit down on the ball or do you "think" you hit down on it? If you're unc*cking your left wrist properly then you shouldn't have to worry about flipping. My guess is that you have more "forward" then "down" in your swing. I'd bet that you probably lift up through impact as well.

Here's a great video by Lynn Blake about it. Pay particular attention to where he says ...

"[color="#1C2837"][size="2"]... but what happens is we bend this wrist (left) which is a horizontal motion and the club goes FORWARD. It doesn't go downward. So we miss this ([i]hammering club into ground[/i]), T-H-E precious, downward element. When we do this ([i]bent left wrist sideways .. i.e. flip[/i]), we lose that.[/size][/color]
[color="#1C2837"][/color][color="#1C2837"][font="arial, helvetica"][size="3"][size=2]
[/size][/size][size="2"]So the good news is, you can't go down [b]AND[/b] sideways at the same time."[/size][/font][/color]
[size="3"][color="#1C2837"] [/color][/size]
[size="3"][color="#1C2837"][size="2"][color="#000000"][size="3"][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVws0CQqTDc&feature=PlayList&p=3EDE26572185D3DA&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1[/media][/size][/color][/size][/color][/size]

[Insidious2]

I don't really know enough to totally self evaluate, but I think I can tell when I make downward contact because of the beautiful click I feel when I do it. I play blades(yes, I know) so I can tell when I don't hit it properly. I know when I do at least make decent contact I have some shaft lean.

I think the biggest problem is that my shoulders/hips start my downswing, but don't finish it. My hands take over about half way down. Take a look at the uploaded video in the first post. It's of a PW that went about 150 on a par 3. I maintain regular shaft lean through about 5i, 4 iron is a little shakey. Accuracy is another topic.

I [i]know[/i] I'm not doing it right, and flipping to an extent, but I also [i]think[/i] that I'm hitting down on it(shaft lean).

let me know what yalll think! Don't hold back on your educated criticisms please.

[carrera]

You have a lot of club run-on in your backswing (club moving after your shoulders stop turning). That makes your downswing out of sync...there is no relationship between your shoulder rotation and club movement on the downswing because there is none on your backswing. John Daly can make this kind of backswing with a PW, but the rest of us mortals can't.

[carrera]

You would also benefit from a bit of tilt at address...you are very vertical at address.

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='Rugger' date='19 July 2010 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1279597307' post='2587304']
Anyone have any specific ideas for me aside from "just doing it"? I'm not sure how much an impact board would help me as my divots are always infront of my ball. Maybe some sort of impact bag a foot or two infront of me to make sure I reach out and get it?

Instead of pushing the club head forward after the divot I seem to flip/chicken wing to the follow through. UGH!


[/quote]

I would work on fixing three issues

- your arms are 'running' your backswing, not your turn (see Carrera's response)
- you are losing your rotation in the impact area allowing the clubhead to pass your hands a bit early
- you have a moderate chicken wing action going after impact

with a single drill. practice hitting 1/2 to 3/4 wedge shots but 'driving the swing with your turn, focus on a forward shaft at impact (and keep that turn going), and finish with both arms straight ahead of you pointed at the target.

With a smaller swing you can probably make these things happen (much tougher with a full swing). Start with no more than a 1/2 swing (or the 9:00-3:00 drill discussed elsewhere around here). You will end up being a deadly golfer from inside 80 yards. Once that works then you have a shot at transferring this to a full swing.

dave

[irishfight4it]

Stop aiming your body so far left and you'll be able to release it to hit a straight shot. From this angle it looks as it your shoulders are 30 degrees from parallel to the target. From this severe open position you need to chicken wing/hang on to get the ball going back to the target. One of the earlier posters was close by saying your spine angle is very vertical. This verticality comes from this open position, as the right arm gets above the left, the right shoulder raises.

So, to sum it up, square your shoulders and get some shoulder tilt.

[northgolf]

[quote name='Rugger' date='19 July 2010 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1279597307' post='2587304']
Anyone have any specific ideas for me aside from "just doing it"? I'm not sure how much an impact board would help me as my divots are always infront of my ball. Maybe some sort of impact bag a foot or two infront of me to make sure I reach out and get it?

Instead of pushing the club head forward after the divot I seem to flip/chicken wing to the follow through. UGH!

[/quote]


My swing has been quite similar to yours; that is, I had a disconnected backswing with run on and a well timed flip with shoulder stall on the forward swing. The drill that has worked for me in terms of getting the feel of the right length backswing and a proper forward swing release sequence is the Faldo pre-set drill which is referenced in several threads:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6QtMgkK6zI[/media]

There is also the Monte shoulder Isolation drill which works on the same issue:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFHuriFgW2E[/media]

The key with both the drills is that they get you to a top of the backswing position with the wrists cocked and the hands passive, then you just rotate forward and keep the shoulders moving all the way through - the wrists release late on their own. The faldo drill worked really well for me, others have preferred Monte's drill.

Hope this helps

[Insidious2]

Haven't had much time at all to digest the suggestions here but I"m headed to the range with my camera. Will post results of they are any different!

[RingerPro]

Hitting "down" can be done by simply getting the upper body leaning forward. That make allow you to hit "down" but causes a lot of other problems. It certainly doesn't fix flipping. Only two ways to fix flipping that I know of. Keep the right wrist bent through impact or accelerate the hands past the ball.

[Insidious2]

[quote name='RingerPro' date='20 July 2010 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1279676647' post='2589285']
Hitting "down" can be done by simply getting the upper body leaning forward. That make allow you to hit "down" but causes a lot of other problems. It certainly doesn't fix flipping. Only two ways to fix flipping that I know of. Keep the right wrist bent through impact or accelerate the hands past the ball.
[/quote]

I think this is pretty spot on. I'm hitting down on the ball but my lack of spine tilt is almost forcing me to flip through. The "square your shoulders and get some tilt" as well as the faldo video helped me out a bit.

[Ezgolfer]

Start the downswing with your lower body , lot of things will fall in place .

[northgolf]

[quote name='Ezgolfer' date='20 July 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1279682219' post='2589482']
Start the downswing with your lower body , lot of things will fall in place .
[/quote]

That only works if his arms don't run on during the backswing, if they do then you get the flip to square the club face around being blocked out. I had run on arms and a leg driven forward swing and struggled with blocks right and flip hooks as misses (on most days it was a practiced well timed flip and I had a pretty draw, but if my timing was a tad off there was no knowing where it would go).

[Insidious2]

[quote name='northgolf' date='20 July 2010 - 09:32 PM' timestamp='1279683163' post='2589515']
[quote name='Ezgolfer' date='20 July 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1279682219' post='2589482']
Start the downswing with your lower body , lot of things will fall in place .
[/quote]

That only works if his arms don't run on during the backswing, if they do then you get the flip to square the club face around being blocked out. I had run on arms and a leg driven forward swing and struggled with blocks right and flip hooks as misses (on most days it was a practiced well timed flip and I had a pretty draw, but if my timing was a tad off there was no knowing where it would go).
[/quote]

Sounds a lot like me...

So first things first, aside from spine angle...my takeaway is my biggest problem ya'll think? Meaning, my arms take my backwswing farther than my back/shoulder allow? I know it looks hideous....and it's flat on takeaway then steep on downswing. UGH.

[northgolf]

[quote name='Rugger' date='20 July 2010 - 11:43 PM' timestamp='1279683803' post='2589532']
[quote name='northgolf' date='20 July 2010 - 09:32 PM' timestamp='1279683163' post='2589515']
[quote name='Ezgolfer' date='20 July 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1279682219' post='2589482']
Start the downswing with your lower body , lot of things will fall in place .
[/quote]

That only works if his arms don't run on during the backswing, if they do then you get the flip to square the club face around being blocked out. I had run on arms and a leg driven forward swing and struggled with blocks right and flip hooks as misses (on most days it was a practiced well timed flip and I had a pretty draw, but if my timing was a tad off there was no knowing where it would go).
[/quote]

Sounds a lot like me...

So first things first, aside from spine angle...my takeaway is my biggest problem ya'll think? Meaning, my arms take my backwswing farther than my back/shoulder allow? I know it looks hideous....and it's flat on takeaway then steep on downswing. UGH.
[/quote]

How you get the wrists loaded with the controlled backswing is an open question I have out on the forum. The faldo drill works great on the range, but I just don't picture it on the course. I've had some success concentrating on the one piece take away (shoulder, arms, hands) and having everything stop when my shoulder turn hits its limit, but I haven't figured out the wrist cocking on the backswing - with the run on I was float loading and that just doesn't feel right with the compact backswing. I am also still working out maintaining width as an active wrist **** feels very narrow, I feel like I'm leaking power, and being active in the backswing it hard to have them wait their turn on the forward swing.

I hope someone more experienced than I will jump in and shed some light.

[Insidious2]

Hit again today, felt like I was doing better but video was showing otherwise. I was hitting a lot thin, presumably from the spine tilt and not being forward enough. Could be my weight transfer or ball position or both. UGH.