Ryder Cup Captain(merged)

[nochct1]

Overrated

As the Ryder Cup gets closer more and more articles are starting to come out about Corey Pavin, his role as captain, and the hard work that he has put in over the past year. However, the articles just remind me that the Ryder Cup captain is the most overrated job in sports and its difficutly has been created by the media over the last 15 years or so.

Seriously, can someone explain to me what is hard about the job? My favorite article around the time is about the uniforms. Is it really that time consuming to pick out some clothes for the week? Call three companies, ask them to create uniforms and present them to you. Pick one. Shouldn't take more than a week. Food for the players? Ask them what they like, have it made. Takes about twenty minutes. We're talking 12 players, not a 300 person wedding.

And of course the pairing. I'll argue that the captain isn't even needed here. Put 12 PGA tour pros in a room and ask them who they would like to play with, and they will figure it out. In fact, the pairings that tend to work the best come from the players themselves asking to be paired together (Mickelson / Kim, Woods / Stricker). The only time they really struggle is when the captain tries to do too much.

These guys are professional golfers who know more about each others game than some 55 year old coming off the senior tour. But year after year we hear about the Captain and how important his job is. The reality is that Phil, Tiger and the rest don't need some washed up player looking over their shoulder when they are trying to play a match.

Can someone please convince me that the captain is actually important. Or better yet, can someone tell me why the captain needs almost two years to prepare for the Ryder Cup?

[1overpar]

Captain role is to bring leadership! Wathever the tasks are and how they are distributed. At some point in the competition, decisions needs to be make. Regarding pairings, benching but also motivational speach's. Sometimes it comes automatically from the inside, and I agree with you that this level of players brings themselfs lots of leadership. I don't think that the role has been created focusing on outfit. In the middle of the competition, it might not be the better idea to ask the players to focus on startegies and pairings. They need to relax and concentrate on their own games.

That beeing said! I don't like, neither I hate Captain's choices. Few of them I don't understand at all. I also beleive that the captain's choices have been added to help bringing in hot players near the competition....I beleive the objective has been missed this year and that the choices they made could have been made last year.

[jsjmp]

I tend to agree with OP to a certain extent however I think Azinger showed how important a good captain can be.  You cannot deny that he had a winning strategy that was well thought out and developed.  Overall I do think the role of RC captain is overstated. 

[Ronzo]

In my view, the Ryder Cup Captain has three major functions:
[list=1][*]To be the single point of contact for all logistical concerns. This includes all the friends of the USGA officers who are in the apparel industry, catering industry, transportation industry, etc.[*]To choose the Captain's picks, thereby ensuring the team has the players necessary to win.[*]Most importantly, to be the scapegoat for the USGA officers if the USA doesn't win, or the celebrated great choice of the USGA officers if the USA does win.[/list]See a pattern here?

[jebb]

Great post and I have thought this for ages.

Look at Monty this time. 3 vice captains, Sergio who is apparently some kind of cheerleader and the Welsh bloke as "Monty's buggy driver". It is totally absurd.

For the last two years we have had to sit through every interview with Monty being about the preparation for the Ryder Cup with crazy stuff like him wanting a new kitchen building so the food can be even hotter and a secure floor between the teams in the hotel.

Talk about puffed up and overblown. What is he planning- the D Day landings?

You usually get the other unnecessary stuff like the potential players' wives meeting for some unknown reason. And what is even more baffling is that despite this incredible detail in the planning it turns out that the team was picked literally at the very last minute with one performance in the last round determining picks.

And you get all the talk about needing to play tournaments to keep an eye on the team. For 2 years?????

The whole thing is way way overdone.

[Borthwick]

Perhaps someday you'll be responsible for something and then you'll understand.

[surefire]

[quote name='Borthwick' timestamp='1285172565' post='2708706']
Perhaps someday you'll be responsible for something and then you'll understand.
[/quote]

Was thinking along similar lines.

Have any of you ever been involved in project management?

If you are managers at work, would you just completely leave your staff be, because you know they can get on with what they do?

[Dizz]

I agree with everything except calling Pavin "washed up." There are a lot of guys out there that would love to be playing like Pavin whether hes 18 or 60. Don't forget he did get into a playoff for a PGA Tour title THIS year. I would love to be that washed up. But as far as being captain of the Ryder Cup and what his responsibilities are...I couldn't agree more.

[atlanta golfer]

The captain is, in a nutshell, responsible for creating and maintaining an environment that allows the golfers to perform at the highest level possible. The best ones will make it look easy, but it definitely is not.

[Ronzo]

[quote name='surefire' timestamp='1285172863' post='2708712']
[quote name='Borthwick' timestamp='1285172565' post='2708706']
Perhaps someday you'll be responsible for something and then you'll understand.
[/quote]

Was thinking along similar lines.

Have any of you ever been involved in project management?

If you are managers at work, would you just completely leave your staff be, because you know they can get on with what they do?
[/quote]
Regarding project and program management, the answer is yes. I was trained in PERT/CPM by the former Bell System 30 years ago, and I have similar responsibilities for projects in my current employ.

No I would not (and do not) "leave my staff be". There are needs for periodic meetings to make sure that, no matter how good they are at a given aspect of the project, the overall project's goals and objectives are attained.

That is why #1 on my list was being a single point of contact for all logistical concerns. Someone has to make the calls on all the minutiae, and to do so while being politically savvy enough to keep as many of the USGA officials' friends in the various connected industries satisfied or placated. I can imagine each captain being inundated with calls from people claiming to be a good friend of Sandy Tatum / Michael Bonallack / Walter Hagen / Old Tom Morris, all of whom want to be the official supplier of something to the 2010 USA / European Ryder Cup Team.

The most important supplier to both Corey Pavin and Colin Montgomerie will be the official supplier of Preparation H.

[size="1"]Edited for terrible typing skills.[/size]

[rgk5]

[quote name='Ronzo' timestamp='1285169050' post='2708606']
In my view, the Ryder Cup Captain has three major functions:
[list=1][*]To be the single point of contact for all logistical concerns. This includes all the friends of the USGA officers who are in the apparel industry, catering industry, transportation industry, etc.[*]To choose the Captain's picks, thereby ensuring the team has the players necessary to win.[*]Most importantly, to be the scapegoat for the USGA officers if the USA doesn't win, or the celebrated great choice of the USGA officers if the USA does win.[/list]See a pattern here?
[/quote]

The Ryder Cup is run by the PGA of America, not the USGA.

[Ronzo]

[quote name='rgk5' timestamp='1285176007' post='2708793']
[quote name='Ronzo' timestamp='1285169050' post='2708606']
In my view, the Ryder Cup Captain has three major functions:
[list=1][*]To be the single point of contact for all logistical concerns. This includes all the friends of the USGA officers who are in the apparel industry, catering industry, transportation industry, etc.[*]To choose the Captain's picks, thereby ensuring the team has the players necessary to win.[*]Most importantly, to be the scapegoat for the USGA officers if the USA doesn't win, or the celebrated great choice of the USGA officers if the USA does win.[/list]See a pattern here?
[/quote]

The Ryder Cup is run by the PGA of America, not the USGA.
[/quote]
Thanks for the clarification. Just replace "USGA" with "PGA of America" in my statements above, but the point remains the same. The Captain sinks the heat from those who have a vested financial interest in having their products exhibited, and he is either scapegoated if the team loses or is a validation of the PGA of America officers' good judgment if the team wins. Mostly based upon point #2.

IMO, the best thing that could have happened to Paul Azinger is NOT to have been chosen again to be the Captain of this year's Ryder Cup team. His legacy will forever remain untarnished, and every future USA Captain will be compared to him. In another mileau: someone wrote that "Jimi Hendrix had the good grace to die young, so we didn't have to suffer the way we do with the winding down of Eric Clapton's career." BTW, I disagree with that, but I'm tossing it out there as a (secular) parable.

[size="1"]EDIT: My typing is bloody awful.[/size]

[bermuda]

Not saying USGA officials aren't involved at all at some level, but the Ryder Cup is administered on this side by the PGA of America (not the USGA or PGA Tour).

As far as the original post, it's like the New Orleans Saints. They're all pro football players. They know what the H they're doing. I don't see why Sean Payton gets so much credit. It's not like the Saints didn't win a lot before he arrived. And that Chad Knaus at Hendrick Motorsports. Why does he get so much credit? He's not building the engines or driving the car. Anybody in a Hendrick car could win anytime he wanted. Right, Dale Jr.?

[Ronzo]

Managers were perceived by ownership as replaceable entities in the '70's and 80's George Steinbrenner-era Yankees. Right, Dick Howser? Right, Billy Martin? Hey, ANYONE could manage those Yankee teams!

[nochct1]

[quote name='Borthwick' timestamp='1285172565' post='2708706']
Perhaps someday you'll be responsible for something and then you'll understand.
[/quote]

Really? So being responsible for a 75 person sales staff located across the country isn't being responsible for something? In addition to that I deal withinew product launches a few times each year, and I have to determine strategy for bringing that to the marketplace. And of course I have my day to day responsibility of getting my sales staff to reach a multi billion dollar sales goal. I'm on the board of two charities and have a wife and three children. Trust me, I get responsibility.

What I don't understand is why we have to hear from captain pavin about his picks for two years. Just ask the 8 guys who qualified who should be on the team. Pick some uniforms. Call the best hotel in the area and tell them you have 30 people coming in and need an entire floor blocked off (oh wait, someone already does that for him).

And how about the news conference? "Rickie, say hello to your Captain." Let's face it, this is media driven so that the PGA can make some extra cash.

[DevilGolfer]

Picking the team and other managerial positions.
Scheduling travel and lodging.
Providing travel to and from venues.
Selecting clothing. (Takes far longer than a week that the OP claims it should.)
Determining pairings.
Selecting and scheduling meals for the entire week for players and family members.

And yeah, there's probably way more people than the 12 and their wives going like kids, other family members, other captains and their families. You're probably talking a minimum of 50 people you have to have meals, lodging, travel, transportation, security, etc. for.

[nochct1]

[quote name='bermuda' timestamp='1285176842' post='2708818']
Not saying USGA officials aren't involved at all at some level, but the Ryder Cup is administered on this side by the PGA of America (not the USGA or PGA Tour).

As far as the original post, it's like the New Orleans Saints. They're all pro football players. They know what the H they're doing. I don't see why Sean Payton gets so much credit. It's not like the Saints didn't win a lot before he arrived. And that Chad Knaus at Hendrick Motorsports. Why does he get so much credit? He's not building the engines or driving the car. Anybody in a Hendrick car could win anytime he wanted. Right, Dale Jr.?
[/quote]

They play 16 games per year. There have to handle a roster of 50+ people and have to deal with injuries that impact that roster. They have to have a new game plan each week on offense defense and special teams. And they have to make sure that those plays are called at the right time and executed correctly.

It's a little bit different than a golf exhibition that is played every couple of years over one weekend. Again, put twelve of the best players in the world in a room and they will figure it out. The captain can be there to handle logistics etc. But the media should stop acting as though it's a difficult job.

[nochct1]

[quote name='DevilGolfer' timestamp='1285178275' post='2708851']
Picking the team and other managerial positions.
Scheduling travel and lodging.
Providing travel to and from venues.
Selecting clothing. (Takes far longer than a week that the OP claims it should.)
Determining pairings.
Selecting and scheduling meals for the entire week for players and family members.

And yeah, there's probably way more people than the 12 and their wives going like kids, other family members, other captains and their families. You're probably talking a minimum of 50 people you have to have meals, lodging, travel, transportation, security, etc. for.
[/quote]

I assume you're kidding.
He has to pick 4 people, not hard at all (we all know who the top six choices were, just narrow it down from there)
Do you really think Pavin does any of the travel scheduling? The PGA has an entire committee who handles that. Trust me, Corey isn't on the phone with Delta trying to figure out how to get people there. Even if it's 200 people, he doesn't have to worry about a Players X's vegetarian brother who likes a room with bunk beds.
Clothing? Really? All he has to do is ask to see samples and pick the one he likes the most. The amount of time out of his schedule is probably a few hours. After that they have people who get sizes etc.
Pairings - I've covered this. The players can figure it out.

[tigersrsweet]

It's hard enough to get the logistics of a 12 man golf weekend straightened out and I'm not picking out what they wear everyday. You or I have no idea what all goes into this. I'm not saying it's easy or hard, but to say he is overrated on something you know nothing about, nor pry ever will is a bit judgemental. IMO

[JRS]

[quote name='jsjmp' timestamp='1285167593' post='2708560']
I tend to agree with OP to a certain extent however I think Azinger showed how important a good captain can be. You cannot deny that he had a winning strategy that was well thought out and developed. Overall I do think the role of RC captain is overstated.
[/quote]

you mean he chose some players and they happened to win?

the captain is really a ceremonial role these days. sure he has SOME influence on what happens but the players do the winning and losing on their own.

having a couple of legends from yesteryear "squaring off" creates interest and feelings of nostalgia which are good for the event.

[KMeloney]

[quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1285178997' post='2708864']
I assume you're kidding.
He has to pick 4 people, not hard at all (we all know who the top six choices were, just narrow it down from there)
Do you really think Pavin does any of the travel scheduling? The PGA has an entire committee who handles that. Trust me, Corey isn't on the phone with Delta trying to figure out how to get people there. Even if it's 200 people, he doesn't have to worry about a Players X's vegetarian brother who likes a room with bunk beds.
Clothing? Really? All he has to do is ask to see samples and pick the one he likes the most. The amount of time out of his schedule is probably a few hours. After that they have people who get sizes etc.
Pairings - I've covered this. The players can figure it out.
[/quote]

What, exactly, is your point? That anyone can do the captain's job? Sure, I agree with that. *I* could do it. But I could also do it REALLY POORLY and have a lot of people disappointed by it all.

And maybe the players don't want to pair themselves up. Maybe they'd rather not deal with that. Why put that in their hands?

Do you love the clothes that Pavin('s wife) picked? Think everyone loves them? Think it's easy to please everyone when it comes to something like clothing?

I can't imagine that anyone really thinks that doing the things you've broken the captaincy down to include is difficult. It's just that it can be difficult to DO WELL and to have people pleased by what you've done (to mention nothing of the hope that it leads to an actual USA win).

This is golf, and none of it really matters, does it? But in the context of golf, and TV, and national pride, the honor of being selected as captain, and having the event go well, blah, blah, blah, it all matters. Given the context, it can't be all that easy to be the captain.

Heck, you even called Pavin "washed up." Even his past history as a pretty good golfer doesn't mean anything to you. Just goes to show how difficult it must be to captain the team when you go into the job with people dumping on you from day one.

[Borthwick]

[quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1285178214' post='2708850']
[quote name='Borthwick' timestamp='1285172565' post='2708706']
Perhaps someday you'll be responsible for something and then you'll understand.
[/quote]

Really? So being responsible for a 75 person sales staff located across the country isn't being responsible for something? In addition to that I deal withinew product launches a few times each year, and I have to determine strategy for bringing that to the marketplace. And of course I have my day to day responsibility of getting my sales staff to reach a multi billion dollar sales goal. I'm on the board of two charities and have a wife and three children. Trust me, I get responsibility.

What I don't understand is why we have to hear from captain pavin about his picks for two years. Just ask the 8 guys who qualified who should be on the team. Pick some uniforms. Call the best hotel in the area and tell them you have 30 people coming in and need an entire floor blocked off (oh wait, someone already does that for him).

And how about the news conference? "Rickie, say hello to your Captain." Let's face it, this is media driven so that the PGA can make some extra cash.
[/quote]

Given the responsiblities you purport to have, your original questions and statements make even less sense to me.

[JLTD63]

Coach, manager, captain, etc, etc...no matter the professional sport...they get too much credit and shoulder too much blame.

[moonshine]

I like Corey and watching the Ryder Cup. In our clubhouse in the men's locker room there are copies of original letters written by Ryder and Hagen. In them is conveyed a message about the spirit injected by winning, if each side can, and playing on another level to do so. I personally think the entire thing has been diluted over the years by greed and desired media coverage. I know, it's a sign of the times. Way too much money is spent on the whole thing, and the creation of Presidents Cup has taken some of the excitement away...for me.

[Bob57]

I think we are going to see what the captain adds this ryder cup. Azinger brought leadership, Corey brings who knows what. They will be coming home with their tails between their legs and Corey will join Hal Sutton as a failure.

The Ryder cup certainly has taken on a much bigger role/deal than was probably intended when it was just the U.S. versus UK.. Too much like the Olympics. USA USA USA barf.

[nochct1]

[quote name='Borthwick' timestamp='1285188137' post='2709086']
[quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1285178214' post='2708850']
[quote name='Borthwick' timestamp='1285172565' post='2708706']
Perhaps someday you'll be responsible for something and then you'll understand.
[/quote]

Really? So being responsible for a 75 person sales staff located across the country isn't being responsible for something? In addition to that I deal withinew product launches a few times each year, and I have to determine strategy for bringing that to the marketplace. And of course I have my day to day responsibility of getting my sales staff to reach a multi billion dollar sales goal. I'm on the board of two charities and have a wife and three children. Trust me, I get responsibility.

What I don't understand is why we have to hear from captain pavin about his picks for two years. Just ask the 8 guys who qualified who should be on the team. Pick some uniforms. Call the best hotel in the area and tell them you have 30 people coming in and need an entire floor blocked off (oh wait, someone already does that for him).

And how about the news conference? "Rickie, say hello to your Captain." Let's face it, this is media driven so that the PGA can make some extra cash.
[/quote]

Given the responsiblities you purport to have, your original questions and statements make even less sense to me.
[/quote]

You still haven't addressed the original question. What does the captain really do for the team? Why do we need two years of media coverage about Corey Pavin?

I'm sure your project management skills are very important, but we're talking about a 3 day golf exhibition involving 12 golfers. And let's not forget that all of the "details" are handled by the PGA staff. So instead of attacking me as a person let's see if you can come back with a well thought out response......

[BadBilly429]

I beleive the captain plays and important role as the leader, and the role model of the group, picks captains picks, picks the matches and teams, and motivating his players.

That being said I lost all respect for Corey Pavin when he pulled the 3 wood out of the bag on the 73rd hole of the Travelers, and then trys to hit his 2nd shot further with a 3 hybrid to a tucked pin over a bunker than his tee shot went! And then Bubba feeds a 3/4 sw into the same hole and puts it in there to 2 inches, made Corey look like a donkey.

[dan360]

Never underestimate what it takes to corral and organize the lives of 12 of the richest and most egomaniacal golfers on the planet.....for a week or better.

Not saying egomaniacal in a bad way, but professional atheletes are a lot more difficult to deal with in their environment than people realize...even sedentary sports like golf contain some intense personalities.

....and if you think making a menu for a bunch of rich people is as easy as "just ask them what they want" I sincerely hope you like change, because a jet charter to fly in fresher caviar before the "OMG I can't play now!!!" breakdown occurs just might be in order.

[Langlands]

[quote name='Borthwick' timestamp='1285188137' post='2709086']
Given the responsiblities you purport to have, your original questions and statements make even less sense to me.
[/quote]

I was just thinking the exact same thing.

[nochct1]

[quote name='drpurpell' timestamp='1285244439' post='2710117']
[quote name='Borthwick' timestamp='1285188137' post='2709086']
Given the responsiblities you purport to have, your original questions and statements make even less sense to me.
[/quote]

I was just thinking the exact same thing.
[/quote]

another well thought out response...try answering the question.