How to fix the five dumbest rules in golf

[larrybud]

There's a major problem with making the OB rule as a lateral hazard. I've played plenty of courses which have a heavily wooded area, then OB beyond that.

So you blast one into the trees, can't find it. If you hit it off the course (OB), you get to drop (deep in the trees). If you can't find it, it's a lost ball and you have to rehit. That certainly doesn't make any sense.

So let's say it's OB and you drop... now you have an unplayable lie... now what?

Divot.. well. Yeah, it sucks, but how often does it really happen? I've played 74 rounds this year, and I've been in 2 divots all year. I think it's a non-issue.

I agree that a ball moved by wind after addressing it being a penalty is ridiculous, and that one would need to mark the ball and put it back to "reset" the fact that it was addressed.

[grabthepin]

If you get relief from a sand-filled divot, then the guy next to you in an unfilled divot will scream unfair.

If the guy in the unfilled divot gets relief, then the guy next to him sitting in a natural depression will scream unfair.

If the guy in a natural depression gets relief, then the guy sitting in front of a paspalum stalk will scream unfair.

We might as well just play lift and place, the complete opposite to the basic premise of golf--play as it lies.

[quote]I agree that a ball moved by wind after addressing it being a penalty is ridiculous, and that one would need to mark the ball and put it back to "reset" the fact that it was addressed.[/quote]

And that rule may indeed be revised for 2012.

[BogeyDog11]

[quote name='ram01002' timestamp='1286901448' post='2739640']
I agree with all 5 of his suggestions, and I never agree with anything he says.
[/quote]

+2

[petter7]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1286899249' post='2739586']
I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Kostis, and I shouldn't criticize his expertise, however, I don't agree with his ideas on the rules. I believe every rule has been greatly researched, created, and written over a long period of time by some pretty intelligent folks. Every rule has a lot of solid rationale behind it. That doesn't mean there can't be changes made every time a new book comes out, but wholesale revisions and fundamental changes are certainly not needed IMO. I realize I am in the minority on this, and will not debate it with anybody with their own valid opinions... just felt the need to express mine, valid or not...

Kevin
[/quote]

I agree with your assessment Kevin.

[OpusX20]

Good discussion guys. Personally, I pretty much disagree with all the suggestions posed by Mr. Kostis.

[b][i]1. Bunker Vs. Waste Areas
[/i][/b]I've never really thought that it was overly confusing to tell the difference between a waste area and a bunker. So, I'm not really sure why this one is even an issue. And, did this really have anything to do with the Dustin Johnson thing? I don't remember Johnson saying that he thought it was a waste area. I recalled that he just thought it was a bare patch of ground. It seems to me like playing everything as a bunker (according to the local rules for the 2010 PGA) is the cause. If they had made a distinction between bunkers and waste areas at Whistling Straits, the DJ thing could have been prevented.

[i][b]2. No Relief From Divots and Sand-filled Divots[/b]
[/i]I disagree with his logic that every player should experience the exact same playing conditions. Different playing conditions is just part of golf. Some players get the early-late tee times and others get the late-early. Definitely not the same playing conditions. And, by this logic you should certainly be able to fix spike marks. If McCord has a 10 ft putt and then walks on the line on the way to the hole to get his ball, does Mr. Kostis think he should be able to fix those spike marks if he ends up with the exact same 10 foot putt? Personally, I think hitting out of a divot is skill. Granted it's not used very often, but it's a skill none the less. In my mind, hitting in the fairway is not a guarantee of a perfect lie. It's just a matter of increasing your odds of getting a good lie.

[b][i]3. Out of Bounds
[/i][/b]This rule has been changed several times, and I think it's ok that there is a stiff penalty for hitting the golf ball off the property. I would probably be ok with getting rid of internal OB, except for safety reasons, but that is another discussion. It's probably a good thing Mr. Kostis wasn't playing golf a couple hundred years ago, I think the penalty for going OB was 3 strokes and distance.

[i][b]4. Dropping the Ball[/b]
[/i]Obviously, there are plenty of other reasons for taking a drop, besides just penalty situations. And, given that you often have multiple options on where to drop in penalty situations, that doesn't seem to be a big deal. And, I don't see why my hitting the ball into the water now entitles me to a perfect lie.

[i][b]5. Disqualification for Penalty Assessed After Round[/b]
[/i]It's alread been covered by others why this rule is important.
[i]

[/i]Frankly, any list of the dumbest rules in golf that doesn't include the new groove rule is invalidated IMO.

[dcb2821]

[quote name='pcirelli' timestamp='1286902048' post='2739668']
[i][b]
2. No Relief From Divots and Sand-filled Divots[/b]
Disagree: Ball down...play it as it lies.

[b]3. Out of Bounds[/b]
Disagree: I hit a ball OB for the first time in a while on Sunday and made a double bogey. That sucks...which it should!
[/i]
[/quote]


2. You should not be penalized for hitting a good tee shot, hitting the ball in the fairway is supposed to be rewarding

3. This needs to change just for the pace of play, im glad i wasnt in the group behind you. Average players dont have marshalls to wave at them if it goes out or not, it takes too much time to walk to the area, find out its OB and walk back. period.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='02bluesuperroo' timestamp='1286925135' post='2740297']

Anyways, my opinion still stands. A ball that is moved by the wind, for instance if it blows 6 inches away from you after you have addressed the ball, that is a penalty. A penalty which I still disagree with. Essentially, I believe that once the ball comes to rest, the wind should be considered an outside agency. The ball should be replaced and no penalty incurred.
[/quote]

If a ball stops on an incline for two seconds, and then rolls down, did the wind move it? Should it be replaced? One second? Ten seconds?

If you cause a ball to move, should there be a penalty? If you sole your putter on the green and the ball subsequently moves, was it the wind that moved it, or was the cause of the movement the compression of the grass? How can I be sure?

IMO your solution causes more problems than I could comfortably deal with. As things stand, if your ball is on the green on a steep slope or in windy conditions, simply don't set your putter down and there is no problem. If I do sole my putter and the ball moves, I know it's a penalty without having to make subjective decisions.

[Grapehunter]

All very solid suggestions. I honestly don't think most weekend warriors abide by the rules anyways. Mostly because they don't know most of them and others because it overly complicates things

[HitEmTrue]

I'm surprised at how many people think that every lie in the fairway should be fluffed up...because everyone will be saying they are in a divot if they don't like their lie.

[offapex]

I think the only people who don't like the OB rule are people who tend to hit it OB.

[Justin_Ellis]

[quote name='shift' timestamp='1286952886' post='2740907']
I think the only people who don't like the OB rule are people who tend to hit it OB.
[/quote]
My problem with OB was the hour wait on the tee this last weekend on hole 11 where the fairway and rough slope towards the out of bounds and the wind was blowing towards it. This was a tournament and we had 6 groups on the tee because of the higher handicap groups were out in front. This sort of thing should never happen and it can be remedied quite easily. Total time to complete the round Sunday was 5 hours 45 min.

[02bluesuperroo]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1286939792' post='2740719']
[quote name='02bluesuperroo' timestamp='1286925135' post='2740297']
Anyways, my opinion still stands. A ball that is moved by the wind, for instance if it blows 6 inches away from you after you have addressed the ball, that is a penalty. A penalty which I still disagree with. Essentially, I believe that once the ball comes to rest, the wind should be considered an outside agency. The ball should be replaced and no penalty incurred.
[/quote]

If a ball stops on an incline for two seconds, and then rolls down, did the wind move it? Should it be replaced? One second? Ten seconds?

If you cause a ball to move, should there be a penalty? If you sole your putter on the green and the ball subsequently moves, was it the wind that moved it, or was the cause of the movement the compression of the grass? How can I be sure?

IMO your solution causes more problems than I could comfortably deal with. As things stand, if your ball is on the green on a steep slope or in windy conditions, simply don't set your putter down and there is no problem. If I do sole my putter and the ball moves, I know it's a penalty without having to make subjective decisions.
[/quote]

So you mean that as long as you don't touch your putter to the ground, the act of putting the putter behind the ball, while hovering, is not considered "addressing" the ball and if it was moved by the wind it would be no penalty? That is good to know. For how thorough the rules of golf are, it seems odd that you could swing at and hit the ball without ever "addressing" it. The rules for this game seem so arbitrary at times.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='02bluesuperroo' timestamp='1286978144' post='2741150']
So you mean that as long as you don't touch your putter to the ground, the act of putting the putter behind the ball, while hovering, is not considered "addressing" the ball and if it was moved by the wind it would be no penalty? That is good to know. For how thorough the rules of golf are, it seems odd that you could swing at and hit the ball without ever "addressing" it. The rules for this game seem so arbitrary at times.
[/quote]

Why do you feel that's arbitrary? It seems to me if you have not grounded your club next to the ball, there is far less chance that you have done something to cause your ball to move. Makes complete sense to me...

Kevin

[02bluesuperroo]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1286979531' post='2741185']
Why do you feel that's arbitrary? It seems to me if you have not grounded your club next to the ball, there is far less chance that you have done something to cause your ball to move. Makes complete sense to me...

Kevin
[/quote]

I feel its arbitrary because it doesn't make sense to me that you can start and complete a stroke without at some point "addressing" the ball.

[Tylanthus]

Good ideas in my opinion. Having an option to treat OB like a lateral hazard without option to play out of it seems like an ok compromise.

I am not sold on changing the divot rule. But if the situation was reversed (eg, free drop from a divot) I think I'd probably argue that the rule was fine as it stands

[luxman]

While I can't agree with his opinion about getting relief from divots, the others make sense, but the one that really stands out for me is the "drop" rule. For one, it was would save time and it would be more "fair", especially in a circumstance when you have to take a drop in a bunker.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

[quote name='02bluesuperroo' timestamp='1286980533' post='2741215']
[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1286979531' post='2741185']
Why do you feel that's arbitrary? It seems to me if you have not grounded your club next to the ball, there is far less chance that you have done something to cause your ball to move. Makes complete sense to me...

Kevin
[/quote]

I feel its arbitrary because it doesn't make sense to me that you can start and complete a stroke without at some point "addressing" the ball.
[/quote]

IIRC Jack Nicklaus never grounded any club for this reason. I try not to ground my club either.

[dcb2821]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1286946802' post='2740856']
I'm surprised at how many people think that every lie in the fairway should be fluffed up...because everyone will be saying they are in a divot if they don't like their lie.
[/quote]

not fluffed up, but in an obvious hole that was chunked up by a hacker that didnt repair it

[OneBowTie]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1286899249' post='2739586']
I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Kostis, and I shouldn't criticize his expertise, however, I don't agree with his ideas on the rules. I believe every rule has been greatly researched, created, and written over a long period of time by some pretty intelligent folks. Every rule has a lot of solid rationale behind it. That doesn't mean there can't be changes made every time a new book comes out, but wholesale revisions and fundamental changes are certainly not needed IMO. I realize I am in the minority on this, and will not debate it with anybody with their own valid opinions... just felt the need to express mine, valid or not...

Kevin
[/quote]

I have a great deal of respect for you Kev as well as some of the other guys on this forum who regularly post helping myself and the many others on here to understand the rules better or more clearly.

As a golf die hard who tries to play golf for fun, recreation, competition, and social/character opportunities that golf offers. I understand that if I am to play any game or sport, I should play by its rules, whether that being to the letter of the law..... or by a adopted/accepted version.

With that being said, I think that as a 20 plus year golfer, who is also a fan of golf no matter the venue, I find it a bit odd that for as long as golf has been around..... that not even those who make their living playing the sport/game seem to have a CLEAR understanding of the rules......

I am not saying to change the rules of golf.....(although there are some rules I think need to be looked at...IE... tapping down spike marks) I do however think that the rules of golf need better interpretation ..... I think something is wrong when we can watch so called EXPERTS host a golf show and have 3 or 4 different opionions on how a rule's outcome "should" be handled.

For instance, remember earlier this year at the Hilton Head Tournament when on the final hole the golfer "touched" "nicked" a "loose" impediment on his back swing in the hazard. That one action alone took days of debate by so called experts, and had to get more then 1 OFFICIALS opinion or ruling at the tournament itself to clarify the action. Now granted, that was a hard thing to see or even call....because the people at the tournament itself were having a hard time determining if the thing he touched was even a "loose" impediment.

Bottom line..... almost every time a pro golfers makes a infraction, its debated for days if not weeks afterwards by the viewing "experts" as well as the golf show television hosts/experts whether it was a rules violation or not .

I think the rules of golf need to be made so that they are more easily understood by the masses.

I think I have a better understanding of the rules then most..... and I have come to learn, I don't understand even some of the most basic rules of golf.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='OneBowTie' timestamp='1286990748' post='2741439']
I have a great deal of respect for you Kev as well as some of the other guys on this forum who regularly post helping myself and the many others on here to understand the rules better or more clearly.

As a golf die hard who tries to play golf for fun, recreation, competition, and social/character opportunities that golf offers. I understand that if I am to play any game or sport, I should play by its rules, whether that being to the letter of the law..... or by a adopted/accepted version.

With that being said, I think that as a 20 plus year golfer, who is also a fan of golf no matter the venue, I find it a bit odd that for as long as golf has been around..... that not even those who make their living playing the sport/game seem to have a CLEAR understanding of the rules......

I am not saying to change the rules of golf.....(although there are some rules I think need to be looked at...IE... tapping down spike marks) I do however think that the rules of golf need better interpretation ..... I think something is wrong when we can watch so called EXPERTS host a golf show and have 3 or 4 different opionions on how a rule's outcome "should" be handled.

For instance, remember earlier this year at the Hilton Head Tournament when on the final hole the golfer "touched" "nicked" a "loose" impediment on his back swing in the hazard. That one action alone took days of debate by so called experts, and had to get more then 1 OFFICIALS opinion or ruling at the tournament itself to clarify the action. Now granted, that was a hard thing to see or even call....because the people at the tournament itself were having a hard time determining if the thing he touched was even a "loose" impediment.

Bottom line..... almost every time a pro golfers makes a infraction, its debated for days if not weeks afterwards by the viewing "experts" as well as the golf show television hosts/experts whether it was a rules violation or not .

I think the rules of golf need to be made so that they are more easily understood by the masses.

I think I have a better understanding of the rules then most..... and I have come to learn, I don't understand even some of the most basic rules of golf.
[/quote]

Thank you for the kind words, and I believe you have made some excellent points in your post. That is the type of debate I enjoy seeing, everybody can walk away as friends. That's really why we all play this game... well, and for the beer...

Kevin

[hayzooos]

[quote name='dirtyboy' timestamp='1286987202' post='2741362']
[quote name='02bluesuperroo' timestamp='1286980533' post='2741215']
[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1286979531' post='2741185']
Why do you feel that's arbitrary? It seems to me if you have not grounded your club next to the ball, there is far less chance that you have done something to cause your ball to move. Makes complete sense to me...

Kevin
[/quote]

I feel its arbitrary because it doesn't make sense to me that you can start and complete a stroke without at some point "addressing" the ball.
[/quote]

IIRC Jack Nicklaus never grounded any club for this reason. I try not to ground my club either.
[/quote]


You would recall correctly as Jack always "hovered" his club. Not sure if it was for this reason or because he didn't want the club to get a little caught up during the backswing. He was good enough to have stopped and started over again, but it's not like the courses were as pristine as they are now. I think Greg Norman was the same way...always hovered, never grounded.

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='dcb2821' timestamp='1286989037' post='2741397']
[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1286946802' post='2740856']
I'm surprised at how many people think that every lie in the fairway should be fluffed up...because everyone will be saying they are in a divot if they don't like their lie.
[/quote]

not fluffed up, but in an obvious hole that was chunked up by a hacker that didnt repair it
[/quote]

One person's obvious will be another's not-so-obvious. The grass does eventually grow back. Would you be allowed to drop out of a divot from three days ago?

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='OneBowTie' timestamp='1286990748' post='2741439']
..... that not even those who make their living playing the sport/game seem to have a CLEAR understanding of the rules......

I am not saying to change the rules of golf.....(although there are some rules I think need to be looked at...IE... tapping down spike marks) I do however think that the rules of golf need better interpretation ..... I think something is wrong when we can watch so called EXPERTS host a golf show and have 3 or 4 different opionions on how a rule's outcome "should" be handled.

[/quote]

I hear what you're saying, but the same thing happens in other sports. Couple years ago, the quarterback for the Eagles didn't know that a regular season game could end in a tie. A few weeks ago, there was considerable controversy over the rules for catching a football as the Lions lost to the Bears.

[ssp]

[quote name='02bluesuperroo' timestamp='1286978144' post='2741150']
[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1286939792' post='2740719']
[quote name='02bluesuperroo' timestamp='1286925135' post='2740297']
Anyways, my opinion still stands. A ball that is moved by the wind, for instance if it blows 6 inches away from you after you have addressed the ball, that is a penalty. A penalty which I still disagree with. Essentially, I believe that once the ball comes to rest, the wind should be considered an outside agency. The ball should be replaced and no penalty incurred.
[/quote]

If a ball stops on an incline for two seconds, and then rolls down, did the wind move it? Should it be replaced? One second? Ten seconds?

If you cause a ball to move, should there be a penalty? If you sole your putter on the green and the ball subsequently moves, was it the wind that moved it, or was the cause of the movement the compression of the grass? How can I be sure?

IMO your solution causes more problems than I could comfortably deal with. As things stand, if your ball is on the green on a steep slope or in windy conditions, simply don't set your putter down and there is no problem. If I do sole my putter and the ball moves, I know it's a penalty without having to make subjective decisions.
[/quote]

So you mean that as long as you don't touch your putter to the ground, the act of putting the putter behind the ball, while hovering, is not considered "addressing" the ball and if it was moved by the wind it would be no penalty? That is good to know. For how thorough the rules of golf are, it seems odd that you could swing at and hit the ball without ever "addressing" it. The rules for this game seem so arbitrary at times.
[/quote]

I agree with you... but I believe the rule states that you have addressed the ball when you have taken your stance and grounded your club. That being said.... this year I had to call a penalty (that cost me an automatic exemption into next years Mid-Am) for my ball moving on the green after I addressed the ball. It was due to the wind and moved about 1/2 inch. Although it is technically the rule.... I think it is bogus. I should have been able to remark/replace and start over. My opinion only of course.

[OneBowTie]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1287000793' post='2741648']
[quote name='OneBowTie' timestamp='1286990748' post='2741439']
..... that not even those who make their living playing the sport/game seem to have a CLEAR understanding of the rules......

I am not saying to change the rules of golf.....(although there are some rules I think need to be looked at...IE... tapping down spike marks) I do however think that the rules of golf need better interpretation ..... I think something is wrong when we can watch so called EXPERTS host a golf show and have 3 or 4 different opionions on how a rule's outcome "should" be handled.

[/quote]

I hear what you're saying, but the same thing happens in other sports. Couple years ago, the quarterback for the Eagles didn't know that a regular season game could end in a tie. A few weeks ago, there was considerable controversy over the rules for catching a football as the Lions lost to the Bears.
[/quote]

I also hear what your saying..... but the reality is, in all the major sports, the majority of the players know or have a GOOD basic understanding of the MAJORITY of the rules...... then they have refs/umps to ENFORCE them..... where in golf..... at almost every high level tournament.....MANY times, high level golfers will call over a OFFICIAL who will explain to them their options or the rule and its options for them, because they aren't really sure themselfs what that rule or options for them are......

The rule you speak about that the Lions lost on..... wasn't so much a rule in question.....they reviewed that to see if the reciever had POSSESSION/POSITION.....more of a judgement call..... could have gone either way depending on who/what offiical's view was.....Unlike say in golf..... you have many many pro's ask a official where they can take a drop or how to take a drop.....a rule that you would think should be common place to a paid professional

I guess I just don't see in other sports the frequency of golf where rules are NOT KNOWN.....by upper tier players or more specifically pro's. Or where they are left open for so much interpretation.

[grabthepin]

Even though many players want the rules simplified, it is the players who are asking for them to be more complicated as well.

It's easy to simplify the rules--get rid of the chapters on obstructions, water hazards, abnormal ground conditions and loose impediments. Get rid of the flagstick, ball marking, if your ball gets knocked off the green, bad luck, taken by a bird, bad luck, ball cleaning, play as it lies baby. I could go on and on, but the point is these are things the player demands. With 5 million dollar prize pools, there is no choice but to address these items thoroughly because like a cow looking for holes in the paddock fence, people will seek out loopholes when there's money involved.

It wouldn't matter how simple the rules were, people would still have differences of opinion--just look at the rule based fights started around a pool table.

[grabthepin]

Let's home in on one often requested rule change: drop from divot holes.

Just try defining what a divot hole is. How deep, how old, is it a hole from a non-burrowing animal, what if the detached divot has freshly been replaced but poorly, what if it was replaced two days ago and has nearly merged, what if the ball isn't in the divot but rests against the partly detached divot, what if it rests against a detached divot, what about sand spilled from filling--it's has no choice but too get complicated. All this for something that hardly ever happens--I've landed in one divot in the last 250 games.

Who says you deserve a good lie on the fairway anyway? I have just as many bad drives hit the fairway as good drives.

[jjj912]

[quote name='OneBowTie' timestamp='1287004588' post='2741758']

I also hear what your saying..... but the reality is, in all the major sports, the majority of the players know or have a GOOD basic understanding of the MAJORITY of the rules...... then they have refs/umps to ENFORCE them..... where in golf..... at almost every high level tournament.....MANY times, high level golfers will call over a OFFICIAL who will explain to them their options or the rule and its options for them, because they aren't really sure themselfs what that rule or options for them are......
...
I guess I just don't see in other sports the frequency of golf where rules are NOT KNOWN.....by upper tier players or more specifically pro's. Or where they are left open for so much interpretation.
[/quote]

I don't think the players have any less of an understanding of the Rules than the players in other sports. I think the reason it looks that way is that the players themselves have to apply the the rules, including the ones that may be a bit tricky, and if the player screws up he is further penalized or even subject to DQ. So they call over an official to make sure that whatever they do they have a fall back position: "The official said it was proper."

The rules in other sports aren't any less complicated or less open to interpretation. It's just that you don't have to understand them as well because someone else will recognize when the rule needs to be applied and how to apply it. It's a lot easier to "know" the rules when you don't have to apply them, particularly when the sitation is unusual.

I've seen some comments saying that the Rules are complicated. In some cases, they can be. In most cases, it just a lack of effort to understand them or to even read the rules. Some of the rules are complicated because somewhere along the way a situation was encountered and Player A disagreed with Player B as to what was the fairest way to proceed. If everybody was in agreement as to what constituted fair, we'd play golf with three rules: 1) play the course as you find it, 2) play the ball as it lies, and 3) when you can do neither, do what it fair.

When you and your buddies go golfing and play with rules that are at variance with the official Rules of Golf, there usually isn't an issue because you agree as to what is fair. However, on occasion there is a disagreement and there a post made in the Rules forum asking what the ruling is. The answer is usually a DQ. Then the poster gets all upset because that's not applicable for whatever reason. So the reply is to assess a 2 stroke penalty. And that sometimes doesn't make the poster happy either. The root issue in these situtations is that by deviating from the official rules, the players arrived at a situation that doesn't have obvious agreeable solution. Whereas if they had followed the official rules, they either wouldn't be in that situation, or there would be an already existing rule to cover it. Of course, if they don't know the rules to begin with, it's a moot point (and why are they asking for ruling anyway if they didn't try to learn the rules in first place?)

[mat562]

The divot one's a potential minefield. All sorts of potential for moaning, protracted discussions, refusal of relief and more moaning about [i]'well, so-and-so got a drop and my ball's in a much worse divot mark than his was...'[/i] bleat... whinge... belllyache... chunter... sulk.

Arrive at the ball. See it's in a divot. Come out with something that would have a petty officers' mess blushing [i]en masse. [/i]Hit it. [i]Sorted. [/i]

It's the same for everyone, removes all ambiguity and landing in a divot is something that only happens every so often anyway. Bemoan your misfortune and get on with it.

[OneBowTie]

[quote name='jjj912' timestamp='1287008344' post='2741824']
[quote name='OneBowTie' timestamp='1287004588' post='2741758']
I also hear what your saying..... but the reality is, in all the major sports, the majority of the players know or have a GOOD basic understanding of the MAJORITY of the rules...... then they have refs/umps to ENFORCE them..... where in golf..... at almost every high level tournament.....MANY times, high level golfers will call over a OFFICIAL who will explain to them their options or the rule and its options for them, because they aren't really sure themselfs what that rule or options for them are......
...
I guess I just don't see in other sports the frequency of golf where rules are NOT KNOWN.....by upper tier players or more specifically pro's. Or where they are left open for so much interpretation.
[/quote]

I don't think the players have any less of an understanding of the Rules than the players in other sports. I think the reason it looks that way is that the players themselves have to apply the the rules, including the ones that may be a bit tricky, and if the player screws up he is further penalized or even subject to DQ. So they call over an official to make sure that whatever they do they have a fall back position: "The official said it was proper."

The rules in other sports aren't any less complicated or less open to interpretation. It's just that you don't have to understand them as well because someone else will recognize when the rule needs to be applied and how to apply it. It's a lot easier to "know" the rules when you don't have to apply them, particularly when the sitation is unusual.

I've seen some comments saying that the Rules are complicated. In some cases, they can be. In most cases, it just a lack of effort to understand them or to even read the rules. Some of the rules are complicated because somewhere along the way a situation was encountered and Player A disagreed with Player B as to what was the fairest way to proceed. If everybody was in agreement as to what constituted fair, we'd play golf with three rules: 1) play the course as you find it, 2) play the ball as it lies, and 3) when you can do neither, do what it fair.

When you and your buddies go golfing and play with rules that are at variance with the official Rules of Golf, there usually isn't an issue because you agree as to what is fair. However, on occasion there is a disagreement and there a post made in the Rules forum asking what the ruling is. The answer is usually a DQ. Then the poster gets all upset because that's not applicable for whatever reason. So the reply is to assess a 2 stroke penalty. And that sometimes doesn't make the poster happy either. The root issue in these situtations is that by deviating from the official rules, the players arrived at a situation that doesn't have obvious agreeable solution. Whereas if they had followed the official rules, they either wouldn't be in that situation, or there would be an already existing rule to cover it. Of course, if they don't know the rules to begin with, it's a moot point (and why are they asking for ruling anyway if they didn't try to learn the rules in first place?)
[/quote]



I still have to disagree with the thought that other major sports rules are no less complicated then the rules of golf. First of all, in all the other major sports, all of them that I can think of only have ONE governing body of the rules.

I really can't recall watching on sports center where rules and conflicts of rules dominate other sports so much as golf..... and take football, basketball, baseball, hockey.... they have several games taking place during a weekend, where in golf there is only ONE professional event taking place or being covered by TV......yet we see many many rules questions holding up play, being asked for interpretation, or simply have been found to have been played wrong.

When I watch the GC, they have round table discussions with so called experts who will argue rules back and forth and when its all said and done, nobody comes away with a clear cut understanding of what was just discussed or 1/2 hour.

I played 27 golf tournaments this year so far..... at almost every single one of them, there is always at the least 1 rule called into question (thats just in my flight alone) and almost always- there are 20 different guys trying to tell 20 different versions of what the correct rule is......granted, this is all AMATEUR GOLF TOURNAMENTS......I doubt that these very same 20 guys would disagree if a rule in question was in regards to football, baseball, basketball......

I am not at all calling for any rules overhaul..... I love the game-just wish after 20 something years- that I understood the rules better- and I think I am a much more avid golfer then average..... other then spike mark tap downs....I don't know another rule that I think HAS to be changed.