How much timing should an effective swing have?

[birly-shirly]

I think the whole argument that golf is a "difficult" game misses an essential point, which is that everything about golf (other than the wind) is either man-made, designed or at least sanctioned. There's nothing absolute about golfing standards - everything, from the size of the ball, to the size of the hole, the width of the fairway, the length of holes and the par of the course is CONSCIOUSLY DESIGNED - relative to what most people are capable of doing. Some holes are harder than others, and some courses are harder than others. And some people are better than others at getting the ball in the hole, but that's life. It doesn't make golf difficult - it just makes being better than other people difficult.

The point about the ball "just sitting there" is, in my opinion, more of an excuse dreamt up by amateur psychologists and authors of self-help volumes. Would you really rather have to react to a moving golf ball? I've seen shinty up close and my response is one of awe, not "that would be a lot harder if the ball just sat there waiting to be hit, rather than flying across your face at 50mph". In my experience, most shinty players are also pretty handy with a golf club in hand and a ball waiting to be hit.

As regards timing, I think I'm with JustSteve. Every co-ordinated movement involves timing. I think a lot of golf instruction GROSSLY overstates the extent to which the role of timing can be eliminated. For an example, look at the idea of keeping your head still. Sounds deceptively simple - until you hear the Stack and Tilt explanation (which I haven't heard anyone seriously dispute) that it actually takes co-ordinated movement of the spine in 3 different dimensions just to make it look as though the spine and head haven't moved! Swing plane is the product of the relative timing of movements around the body and vertically. And ball-contact and lowpoint are the products of, at least, swing plane and the location (whether stationary or moving) of the swing centre.

I also think that golfers typically underestimate the extent to which timing improves subconsciously in even the simplest movements with proper practice. Apparently, there is research showing that even professional cyclists make substantial improvements in efficiency and ultimately performance by improving the timing of their [i]pedal stroke. [/i]But that process can take [i]years[/i]. So where does that leave the golf swing?

I would have to guess that you can effectively scupper much chance of the optimal subconscious adaptation of timing, co-ordination or sequencing (I think they all mean the same thing) if you're constantly tinkering with the relatively gross mechanics of the swing. On the other hand, golf abounds with examples of great golfers who couldn't give a stuff for [i]the proper form [/i]and have grooved a funky looking move 'til it worked. Please don't think that I'm saying that all mechanics are equal or that there are no swing [i]faults, [/i]But I do think that timing is an inescapable fact of the game and not, as some people would have it, the last refuge of the untutored.

[gators78]

[quote name='razorbird' timestamp='1288389921' post='2765536']
[quote name='gators77' timestamp='1288378932' post='2765315']
[quote name='razorbird' timestamp='1288375391' post='2765211']
[i][b]Timing[/b][/i]: "The regulation of occurrence, pace, or coordination to achieve a desired effect, as in music, the theater, athletics, or mechanics. [b]..."

[i]Tempo: "[/i][/b]relative rapidity or rate of movement, usually indicated by such terms as adagio, allegro, etc., or by reference to the metronome."



Tempo is [b]a VERY UNDERRATED ELEMENT OF TIMING AND SEQUENCE.
[/b][i][b]
Too much speed in the backswing[/b][/i] creates inertia that is very difficult to reverse (makes it hard to transition to downswing).

It's a big reason so many amateurs overswing and get out of position in the first place. It's a major cause of casting/flipping/OTT. Reversing a backswing that has too much kinetic energy is in all likelyhood going to make your chances of good sequencing damn near impossible.

So a conscious effort to regulate your tempo may very well be good medicine. Just make sure you see the forest, and not just the tree.
[/quote]


I agree with Tempo being important, but you have it backwards with amateur players being too fast in the backswing.
[/quote]

Do I? Too big, too fast, too far, and out of position is much more prevalent in my experience than too short, too slow and in step. The problem is that most players have very little concept of an impact position to start with. If they started there, going back to the top would be a whole different experience. Of course there is always the super slow backswing guy, but he, too is " too fast, too soon" and out of sequence.

[size="5"]I'll just call it "[i][b]too much backswing[/b][/i]" and leave it at that!
[/size]
[/quote]

No need to increase the font size on me, its just a golf forum!

Just kidding, I know after working with the Tour Tempo CD my backswing was too slow, and as awkward as it felt to speed it up, it totally helped accuracy. Granted the main problem they discuss was amateurs taking way too long on the downswing, which is again another major problem.

Rock on.

[Tanner25]

[quote name='gators77' timestamp='1288392721' post='2765585']
[quote name='razorbird' timestamp='1288389921' post='2765536']
[quote name='gators77' timestamp='1288378932' post='2765315']
[quote name='razorbird' timestamp='1288375391' post='2765211']
[i][b]Timing[/b][/i]: "The regulation of occurrence, pace, or coordination to achieve a desired effect, as in music, the theater, athletics, or mechanics. [b]..."

[i]Tempo: "[/i][/b]relative rapidity or rate of movement, usually indicated by such terms as adagio, allegro, etc., or by reference to the metronome."



Tempo is [b]a VERY UNDERRATED ELEMENT OF TIMING AND SEQUENCE.
[/b][i][b]
Too much speed in the backswing[/b][/i] creates inertia that is very difficult to reverse (makes it hard to transition to downswing).

It's a big reason so many amateurs overswing and get out of position in the first place. It's a major cause of casting/flipping/OTT. Reversing a backswing that has too much kinetic energy is in all likelyhood going to make your chances of good sequencing damn near impossible.

So a conscious effort to regulate your tempo may very well be good medicine. Just make sure you see the forest, and not just the tree.
[/quote]


I agree with Tempo being important, but you have it backwards with amateur players being too fast in the backswing.
[/quote]

Do I? Too big, too fast, too far, and out of position is much more prevalent in my experience than too short, too slow and in step. The problem is that most players have very little concept of an impact position to start with. If they started there, going back to the top would be a whole different experience. Of course there is always the super slow backswing guy, but he, too is " too fast, too soon" and out of sequence.

[size="5"]I'll just call it "[i][b]too much backswing[/b][/i]" and leave it at that!
[/size]
[/quote]

No need to increase the font size on me, its just a golf forum!

Just kidding, I know after working with the Tour Tempo CD my backswing was too slow, and as awkward as it felt to speed it up, it totally helped accuracy. Granted the main problem they discuss was amateurs taking way too long on the downswing, which is again another major problem.

Rock on.
[/quote]

I didn't give this topic much of a look, until I practiced using balance, tempo and timing (as described by Bobby Purepoint guy). I had that effortless swing! It seems w/ repetition this would be an easy swing to duplicate. Looking forward to taking it to the course. I don't think these qualities can get one in trouble.

[Geske]

I think there will always be timing in any golf swing, but the trick is to time the big muscles that are moving slowly (legs, core) instead of the small muscles that are moving quickly (wrists, hands).