Long Irons Push Fade

[SafariThomas]

I Need Help

With recent swing changes, ( more weight on the left @ address , weight stays left on the backswing through impact), am puring the short and mid irons with a nice straight, slight draw bias. This changes as I progress to the long irons where am hitting this dreaded shot pattern. Conversely, my 5w, 3w and driver are not affected. My swing path is inside out. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[aliikane]

[quote name='tommypar72' timestamp='1288319344' post='2764351']
With recent swing changes, ( more weight on the left @ address , weight stays left on the backswing through impact), am puring the short and mid irons with a nice straight, slight draw bias. This changes as I progress to the long irons where am hitting this dreaded shot pattern. Conversely, my 5w, 3w and driver are not affected. My swing path is inside out. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
[/quote]

it is hard to give advice without seeing your swings with the different clubs. here is my take on it. it sounds like you just aren't releasing the club on the long irons as well as your short irons and woods. getting stuck. i would just practice on releasing the club better and using drills to get the club past your body better. the right foot back drill may help. here is a youtube lesson about it.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhY2sQlTRx0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhY2sQlTRx0[/url]

[ml43]

video would definitely help

but for now,
things that cause a push fade:
ball to far back
take away/swing path to much from the inside
face open relative to the swing path

[HitEmTrue]

The first thing I'd try is moving the ball forward a scootch on those clubs and see what effect that has. My unprofessionally based thought.

[SafariThomas]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1288375286' post='2765206']
The first thing I'd try is moving the ball forward a scootch on those clubs and see what effect that has. My unprofessionally based thought.
[/quote]

I normally play my long irons forward of centre ( 2 balls forward of centre). The funniest thing is the more forward I move the ball, the worse the results. It doesn't come out like a true block but starts fairly straight and slices mid air. I will try and upload a vid for better reference. Thanks guys.

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='tommypar72' timestamp='1288377366' post='2765275']
I normally play my long irons forward of centre ( 2 balls forward of centre). The funniest thing is the more forward I move the ball, the worse the results. It doesn't come out like a true block but starts fairly straight and slices mid air. I will try and upload a vid for better reference. Thanks guys.
[/quote]

So it starts straight (not a push)? What happens if you play it back a ball? (one ball in front of shorter irons)

[nikos74]

[quote name='tommypar72' timestamp='1288319344' post='2764351']
With recent swing changes, ( more weight on the left @ address , weight stays left on the backswing through impact), am puring the short and mid irons with a nice straight, slight draw bias. This changes as I progress to the long irons where am hitting this dreaded shot pattern. Conversely, my 5w, 3w and driver are not affected. My swing path is inside out. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
[/quote]

An inside-outside swing profile will always cause a push. The fade is due to the fact you have a relatively strong grip(right hand dominates the left) that keeps the club open during impact. Combine these two factors and you will get a push-fade shot pattern.

What baffles me is why your drawing your short-mid irons in relation to your long irons. Do you employ a different swing for each club or what? You should know that short-mid irons are less fickle with swing flaws than longer irons. I would replace the inside-out profile with a *straight-down-the-target-line* profile.

The biggest reason for the inside-outside swing profile is you place too much weight on your left side(assuming your right-handed) without adjusting other factors such as ball position within your stance and/or incorrect grip. If I were to FRONT LOAD for whatever reason, I would then move the ball forward in my stance to make sure the club bottoms-out ON PLAIN and exactly where my ball is located otherwise you would be forced to bring the club FROM THE INSIDE on a steep trajectory which would either cause a total mishit or a severe push.

Its not terribly complicated but you need to understand the physics of the golf swing when doing special shots. A much easier remedy would be to play the ball in the middle of your stance with weight evenly distributed and a normal *down the target line* clubhead path!

[SafariThomas]

[quote name='nikos74' timestamp='1288390653' post='2765555']
[quote name='tommypar72' timestamp='1288319344' post='2764351']
With recent swing changes, ( more weight on the left @ address , weight stays left on the backswing through impact), am puring the short and mid irons with a nice straight, slight draw bias. This changes as I progress to the long irons where am hitting this dreaded shot pattern. Conversely, my 5w, 3w and driver are not affected. My swing path is inside out. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
[/quote]

An inside-outside swing profile will always cause a push. The fade is due to the fact you have a [b][u]relatively strong grip[/u][/b](right hand dominates the left) that keeps the club open during impact. Combine these two factors and you will get a push-fade shot pattern.

What baffles me is why your drawing your short-mid irons in relation to your long irons. [b][u]Do you employ a different swing for each club[/u][/b] or what? You should know that short-mid irons are less fickle with swing flaws than longer irons. I would [b]replace the inside-out profile with a *straight-down-the-target-line* profile. [/b]

The biggest reason for the inside-outside swing profile is you place [b][u]too much weight on your left side[/u][/b](assuming your right-handed) without adjusting other factors such as ball position within your stance and/or incorrect grip. If I were to FRONT LOAD for whatever reason, I would then move the ball forward in my stance to make sure the club bottoms-out ON PLAIN and exactly where my ball is located otherwise you would be forced to [b][u]bring the club FROM THE INSIDE on a steep trajectory [/u][/b]which would either cause a total mishit or a severe push.

Its not terribly complicated but you need to understand the physics of the golf swing when doing special shots. A much easier remedy would be to play the ball in the middle of your stance with weight evenly distributed and a normal *down the target line* clubhead path!
[/quote]


Nikos74, I honestly feel like you've been watching me swing as evidenced by the highlights... lol

1. I do have a very strong grip. I was always told that strong grip discourages fades/ slice and since this is my miss, I changed from a relatively weak grip to a stronger grip
2. To eliminate the swinging across the ball and thus aggravating the slice, I started swinging inside out to promote draw bias. My prior swing was more inside-square-inside
3. Sometimes am hitting the ball fat ( I knew I was too steep but didn't really know how to shallow the swing with my set up)
4. Finally this is not a speciality shot for me. Am just trying to hit a normal shot to the target and thats why am really struggling. BTW for some reason that I can't explain, I normally swing very flat with my woods and steep with my irons and every time I try to swing the same results in disaster. I know it will be hard without a vid but what would you recommend? Thanks in advance.

[rok78]

If the ball is starting relatively straight and then slicing off in mid flight, you are NOT swinging in to out enough. You need to swing out at it longer. In shorter irons it's easier to swing in to out. As for reasons why you may not be swinging out long enough it depends.

For the push fade, if the ball is starting on a decent line but just fades instead of draws, again you are NOT swinging inside to out enough. You have to swing more out than the line the ball is starting on.

Whatever you do, don't move the ball forward, it will only encourage coming more across it. Like Hitem said earlier, what happens when you move the ball back?

[nikos74]

[quote name='tommypar72' timestamp='1288393392' post='2765599']
Nikos74, I honestly feel like you've been watching me swing as evidenced by the highlights... lol

1. I do have a very strong grip. I was always told that strong grip discourages fades/ slice and since this is my miss, I changed from a relatively weak grip to a stronger grip
2. To eliminate the swinging across the ball and thus aggravating the slice, I started swinging inside out to promote draw bias. My prior swing was more inside-square-inside
3. Sometimes am hitting the ball fat ( I knew I was too steep but didn't really know how to shallow the swing with my set up)
4. Finally this is not a speciality shot for me. Am just trying to hit a normal shot to the target and thats why am really struggling. BTW for some reason that I can't explain, I normally swing very flat with my woods and steep with my irons and every time I try to swing the same results in disaster. I know it will be hard without a vid but what would you recommend? Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

1)weak grip encourages draws/hooks and strong grip encourages fades/slices. A weak grip causes over-rotation of the clubhead, just before and during impact, which means your impacting the ball with a slightly closed face. A strong grip causes under-rotation of the clubhead which means your impacting the ball with an open face. Are you sure they explained everything correctly to you...or maybe you just got confused!

2)Proper target alignment, normal stance in terms of width and good posture(bending at the hips rather than waist) will ENSURE *down the target line* club path which means it all happens automatically and NOTHING should be forced. If you want a draw or fade then you close or open YOUR STANCE and still make a natural swing. You close/open your stance by moving your left foot forward or backward of your right foot respectively. Don't bother with fades and draws till you can hit the ball straight first......

3)Stand more upright...ie less bend at the hips!

4)Each club has a different lie angle which means your swing vector will vary accordingly. Do NOT attempt to artificially manipulate the vertical path on any shot. A driver will have the shallowest path while a 64 degree wedge will have the steepest path. Everything should happen NATURALLY!!!

Cheers

[SafariThomas]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/user/clemshaw#p/search/0/Gg8hSHfi1oI"]http://www.youtube.c...h/0/Gg8hSHfi1oI[/url]