Early 1950s MacGregor M85W

[freddiec]

original finish

Here is a really nice original MacGregor M85W which was made for about 4 or 5 years in the early 1950s. I just received this today from my pal John (aka persimmonpal). Thanks John! Its really nice. The set contained the driver,2 and 3 woods with neck numbers. The leather grips were removed and replaced with golf pride grips. The driver sits really nice and its about 1/8th short of 1.75 inches deep. Most of the early 50s had weights on the back of the club, this one does not. The tourney shaft are perfect too free of rust or pitting. I'm going to have Dave Wood refinish the driver this year.

[persimmonpal]

I am glad that you ended up with it, Fred. I cant wait to see it after Dave does his magic on it.. Very exciting.. That clubs is going to have some major mojo to it. Will you be installing a new shaft in it? How about grip?

[freddiec]

John,
Most likely I'm going to keep the orig. shaft in there, its in great shape. A golf pride tour wrap would be great on this.

[RobotDoctor]

That's a terrific M85W! Going for a little Dave Wood MacGregor restoration magic (ala Greg Norman perhaps)?

[Maxwell]

Nice looking club Fred , just as it is.
Max

[farmer]

A question for you Macguys-I have a driver and a three wood that have a keyhole insert. They are both persimmon, the driver is stamped M2TW and the three is stamped M2W. I rescued these and a Tommy Armour 692 four wood out of a trash barrel some time in the early 70's. I reshafted them (the shafts were broken), did some extensive rebuilding and played with them for years. Does anyone know the vintage or anything about these? I have not seen any other keyhole inserts.

[RobotDoctor]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1290117263' post='2797260']
A question for you Macguys-I have a driver and a three wood that have a keyhole insert. They are both persimmon, the driver is stamped M2TW and the three is stamped M2W. I rescued these and a Tommy Armour 692 four wood out of a trash barrel some time in the early 70's. I reshafted them (the shafts were broken), did some extensive rebuilding and played with them for years. Does anyone know the vintage or anything about these? I have not seen any other keyhole inserts.
[/quote]

The MT2W/M2W are from the early 60s (don't have my Kaplan book in front of me at the moment). I would day your "682" 4 wood is actually a 693 and would be from 1949-1952.

[Bella Woods]

freddiec:

Very solid looking club, insert is really tight! I love looking at old M85s in nice original condition.

I think the M85s and the 693s are my favorite MacGregor persimmon woods. In part due to the
Tourney C chrome stiff shaft and the "deep face".

Almost all of the M85s and 693s I have measured (and own) are the same as yours (1 5/8"), which is
considered the standard starting point for a "deep face club" in my experience.

I'll look forward to seeing the finished product.

[freddiec]

Bella,
Yes, your right the insert is very tight and the head is in good shape with great stamps. No dummy marks at all, just a minor ding on the back of the plate that should come out. I can see the grain thru the Mahogany finish and it looks pretty sweet. I bet this will look good with a natural stain.

RobotDr - ;-)

Fred

[farmer]

You'r right, the 4 wood is a 693. I had to get the light just right to read the stamp. Thanks for the info.

[drewspin]

Fred,

I have a new vintage dark green leather golf pride wrap grip (actually made by gripmaster for golf pride) you can have it for your MacGregor M85 resto.

I'll put in in the box I am sending to Dave Wood with the Hal Sutton Wood Bros restoration project with a note to Dave on what the extra grip is for.

-Drew

[freddiec]

Drew,
Thanks! That might work well on this club. I appreciate that. I like the sounds of that retro look too! Dave's going to do a great job on these. I'm looking fwd to seeing the results. I spoke to him Wednesday and he loves the look of this M85 and he thought by the looks of the head the grain is probably "perfect". We'll see. I'm going to send my stuff today I think. Thanks for the grip!!

[RobotDoctor]

Can anyone imagine what the value of this M85W driver would have been in the 80s? I bet a couple of large bills just for the driver.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1290117263' post='2797260']
A question for you Macguys-I have a driver and a three wood that have a keyhole insert. They are both persimmon, the driver is stamped M2TW and the three is stamped M2W. I rescued these and a Tommy Armour 692 four wood out of a trash barrel some time in the early 70's. I reshafted them (the shafts were broken), did some extensive rebuilding and played with them for years. Does anyone know the vintage or anything about these? I have not seen any other keyhole inserts.
[/quote]


Keyhole or Keysite inserts are circa 1962-65 +/- a year. They came in all kinds of color combinations, with red/white being the most common. I think it was the start of Mac using totally Cycolac inserts instead of Fiber. Kind of hi-tech back then.
The Tommy Armour is probably a 693. But it could have been a special order with the shafts made 1 inch shorter than the standard 43". If so, it the set would have been stamped 692. The 3 in 693 stood for 43" shaft lenght on the driver. The more of the old classics you see, the more variety you discover. That's part of the fun. The hunt is almost as much fun as the capture.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='RobotDoctor' timestamp='1290192277' post='2798426']
Can anyone imagine what the value of this M85W driver would have been in the 80s? I bet a couple of large bills just for the driver.
[/quote]


In the pre-metalwood days, that beauty was $300-500! Especially a driver that does not have any lead back weights. The heads were more solid without the added weighting. An Armour 693 or 945 would bring twice the $$, just because of the name on the crown. M-85, 693 and 945 was all the same heads.
It is great to see the old classics being owned and pampered by someone who appreciates them!
Bob

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='Bella Woods' timestamp='1290127112' post='2797466']
freddiec:

Very solid looking club, insert is really tight! I love looking at old M85s in nice original condition.

I think the M85s and the 693s are my favorite MacGregor persimmon woods. In part due to the
Tourney C chrome stiff shaft and the "deep face".

Almost all of the M85s and 693s I have measured (and own) are the same as yours (1 5/8"), which is
considered the standard starting point for a "deep face club" in my experience.

I'll look forward to seeing the finished product.
[/quote]

Remember how Huge those Babies looked back in the day?
M-85's .693's, M-09 LFF, DX-300. Awesome persimmon. As I write this , I am looking at an old Mac Toney Penna 106 DFD. By todays standards they look like 4-woods. Wait. I am beginning to sound like my dad or something.

[tmharv]

guys im sorry if this is the wrong place to post but im new here as of today, i have an old set of macgregor tommy arrmour woods (1-4) i believe were made sometime in the 1940's i think the 40's because my father played with them and he passed in 1953. if i post pictures of these clubs could someone help identify what models they are or direct me in the right direction thanks for any help you can offer

[LYG]

Fred:

Great club!

Like you said, cool without the lead insert. Also, very "pure" condition with that finish...and no one has monkeyed around with the stamping in the wood on the back.

Be great to see it after the Wood's TLC.

Sweet!

Lawson

[persimmonpal]

[quote name='tmharv' timestamp='1291567920' post='2824485']
guys im sorry if this is the wrong place to post but im new here as of today, i have an old set of macgregor tommy arrmour woods (1-4) i believe were made sometime in the 1940's i think the 40's because my father played with them and he passed in 1953. if i post pictures of these clubs could someone help identify what models they are or direct me in the right direction thanks for any help you can offer
[/quote]
[b]Absolutely[/b] post your pictures.. I am fairly certain someone on here will be able to give you that info.. Welcome to the site and cant wait to see your pictures

[RobotDoctor]

Pictures will definitely be a great assistance to determine a value. Besides, we are all persimmon junkies here so we just love to see pictures of great woods. Create your own thread and we will surely view it and remark on the woods.

Speaking of pictures, where are the pictures of Fred's M85W?

[freddiec]

RobotDr,
The M85 (above) should be refinished sometime over the next 2 weeks. Dave has it now in Texas, I think he's going to start is this week. I'll be posting pics asap. :-)

[RobotDoctor]

That is going to be one sweet M85. I would love to see Dave work on this personally. We eagerly anticipate the pictures.

[tmharv]

here are a couple of pictures of the clubs i mentioned, they have been refinished once by a man named Banks from the boston area somewhere around the early 80's i would certainly appreciate any info i could get on these clubs including info on someone who could refinish them again so i might display them in a den i'm refinishing again i thank everyone for their help and apoligize again if this is the wrong forum for this post, have only been a member here for a couple of days but have found a lot of interesting topics here[attachment=695012:DSC_0003(1).JPG][attachment=695009:DSC_0001.JPG][attachment=695013:DSC_0004(1).JPG][attachment=695011:DSC_0004.JPG][attachment=695010:DSC_0003.JPG]

[LYG]

Hard to tell.

On the back...on the wood area ABOVE the sole plate...is where the model used to be stamped in the wood. Along the way, with refinishing, those stamps were sanded down and you cannot see.

These could be called 693...or 653...or earlier model. Either early 1950's or late 1940's.

Others may have more specific opinions. But the model would normally have been specified with that stamping.

Lawson

[Ironmaster Oddities]

From the looks of the heads, there is some remnant of black original finish, which would indicate to me a model 653..Unless they are pre-war. Then there are several models that were black.
If the clubface measures less than 1-5/8, it is probably a 653 or other model 40. But that doesn't always hold true. It looks like there is some stamping barely visable on the Brassie (2-wood) If you hold it to a light at an angle, maybe you can read the Rec.#. Regardless, they are nice clubs. Personally, I would not refinish them.

Bob

[freddiec]

Ed Banks was a really good club guy back in the day. I think he is still in business, but I remember in the 80s he was almost legendary in the Boston area. Nice clubs!! I'm guessing 1949 653 Model, but the sole plate and the 4 screw insert.

[tmharv]

ironmaster what a great eye for detail after you pointed that out i put all my years of watching CSI to good use and was finally able to to read the stamp it says
oil
hardened
653T
i would like to thank everyone for their input and look forward to being a member of the forum

[RobotDoctor]

The sole plate on the driver looks like a plain blank. I would say it definitely is not the original but a replacement. If that is true then who ever installed it did a pretty good job (probably Mr. Banks).

[freddiec]

The club has been stripped and now shows a really nice U grain pattern. Should look fantastic when its all done.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

Fred,
Dynamite driver! The grain is superb. I love old Macs with the proverbial 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock horseshoe grain. That baby is gonna look like a piece of fine furniture. Keep us in the loop when it gets finished.
Bob