Moe Norman

[BogeyDog11]

What a pro he could have been

Moe was so misunderstood. Too bad others didn't understand him.

http://devour.com/video/moe-norman/

[KevCarter]

What a great little movie. Thanks for sharing it.

Cheers Moe!

Kevin

[Mainlinegolfer]

I hadn't heard before that Titleist agreed to pay Moe Norman $5000 per month for life.

[TJCDAS]

Moe's problems came from a injury from being run over by a car as a youth.

[HCEG1]

Cor Blimey, mate. Sorry, but I don't Adam & Eve it!

Clever trick shot artist, but if he was 10% as good as he was supposed to be, he would have made some sort of mark on the PGA Tour

[setter02]

[quote name='HCEG1' timestamp='1292332163' post='2840144']
Cor Blimey, mate. Sorry, but I don't Adam & Eve it!

Clever trick shot artist, but if he was 10% as good as he was supposed to be, he would have made some sort of mark on the PGA Tour
[/quote]


Do a little research to see how Moe was before you type less than educated things... His legend was off the course with some of the greats. The media and officials back then didn't take kindly to people who were perceived as "different". Kinda like what I'm thinking about you!

Nice little video they put together.

[CHEFMIZ]

Thanks for posting that, i've always had a bit of interest in anything Moe related.

[ernschaeden]

what stopped him from being a pro?

[HCEG1]

[quote name='setter02' timestamp='1292332617' post='2840149']
[quote name='HCEG1' timestamp='1292332163' post='2840144']
Cor Blimey, mate. Sorry, but I don't Adam & Eve it!

Clever trick shot artist, but if he was 10% as good as he was supposed to be, he would have made some sort of mark on the PGA Tour
[/quote]


Do a little research to see how Moe was before you type less than educated things... His legend was off the course with some of the greats. The media and officials back then didn't take kindly to people who were perceived as "different". Kinda like what I'm thinking about you!

Nice little video they put together.
[/quote]

Just my opinion, mate, to which I'm perfectly entitled. I've read lots about him, seen a lot of footage ( I don't care for his 'swing') & spoken to old timers who saw him. He was highly skilled in many ways, but was definitely not the full package as a player and competitor on the big stage, which is how he's remembered

[heisagoalie]

I've heard he wasn't particularly long, and I heard he wasn't a great putter. Those are probably the other factors.

[BogeyDog11]

[quote name='ernschaeden' timestamp='1292343295' post='2840379']
what stopped him from being a pro?
[/quote]


Watch the video again. Moe was different. In being himself, others did not understand him. It has to do with the whole notion of people accepting others who are different. Life around strangers that did not understand him made him very uncomfortable which lead to him not playing as well on tour as he could.
If you Google Moe, you can find lots of info about him and he was very well known by all the top players for several decades.

[ernschaeden]

[quote name='BogeyDog11' timestamp='1292350892' post='2840664']
[quote name='ernschaeden' timestamp='1292343295' post='2840379']
what stopped him from being a pro?
[/quote]


Watch the video again. Moe was different. In being himself, others did not understand him. It has to do with the whole notion of people accepting others who are different. Life around strangers that did not understand him made him very uncomfortable which lead to him not playing as well on tour as he could.
If you Google Moe, you can find lots of info about him and he was very well known by all the top players for several decades.
[/quote]


that's all well and good, but playing on tour is more than hitting a golf ball straight.. it's all of the distractions, egos to ignore etc.
He definitely makes an interesting read...but there is a little bit of mythical legend around this fella that could be overblown..
a tad.

[ibradley]

I watched Moe on the range and followed him a few holes. The ball went dead straight every time. He didn't seem like a great putter. I think he just hit balls for hours and hours a day and never practiced putting.

[Ace In The Hole]

As a Canadian I would love to say Moe would have been this or that, but the reality is, he went out on Tour and he didn't do well. No we can say he may be the best ball striker or he is the most acurate in placing his ball ever, but he had flaws in his game and they were exposed on tour, he for sure faced an uphill battle in some ways because of the way he acted, but I know plenty of people who have done the same, I'm sure allot of people would say John Daly would be misunderstood, or that he would play better if he could "just be himself"

I must say though Moe is always a fun read, and it was a great video. Thanks for posting it.

[zzy]

I had the pleasure of watching Moe hit balls at a demonstration in Ontario in the early 90s, right when I started playing. I can confirm with my own eyes that he was the straightest and most consistent hitter I've ever seen - ever. He would hit towards a flag and hit the flagstick repeatedly. Each shot had the exact same launch and spin. It was uncanny.

It is true though that Moe couldn't hack it on the pro tour, but how could he? He had no money, no coach, and no proper practice. In his twenties he slept in the bunkers of the course before playing in a tourney, because he couldn't even afford a place to sleep. He played balatas until the wound cover showed because he had to, and his clothes were tatters. He was a range rat through and through and that is what made him the best ball striker in the world. It is said that Moe is the only person for whom Ben Hogan ever stopped hitting balls to watch.

If Moe had applied his zeal and repetition to any other element of the game, like putting, I have no doubt he could have been a pro. The fact is this man was a loner - no real friends - no coach - who had NOTHING and liked it that way. He lived out of a car well into his 40s. He had no home course, no practice facility, and had to do trick shot demonstrations to even have a place to hit balls. Moe was HEAVILY emotionally challenged and seemed to struggle with communication even to his adoring Canadian crowds. He would get extremely upset when he was heckled (by fans and fellow pros alike) in a tournament, even to the point of tears. We can only wonder if he had the emotional fortitude to close out a major.

We can only guess now, but there is no question in my mind this was a man who was born to play golf, and it was the only thing that made him happy. He did not drink, date, smoke, or even socialize. All he wanted to do was play golf, all the time. He was born with NOTHING at all, and liked it that way. He never asked for anything from anyone. He had a true golfer's soul and everyone must appreciate that. All he needed in his life to be happy is golf, and I think we could all learn something from that in tough times like these.

[kamtile]

To the naysayers (of which this board has many) Mo had 33 course records, yes I said 33. Many of those still stand today.

[KevCarter]

AWESOME post zzy!!!

[KevCarter]

[quote name='kamtile' timestamp='1292359296' post='2840861']
To the naysayers (of which this board has many) Mo had 33 course records, yes I said 33. Many of those still stand today.
[/quote]

INCREDIBLE!

[IMAway]

Anyone, and I mean anyone who wonders why Moe didn't do more on the PGA Tour is just plain ignorant. Several factors were at play here and before one comments about it, they should educate themselves. Best ball striker ever. And if not... then certainly in the top three.

Here's a quote from none other than Tiger Woods (he's not too shabby).

In January 2005, Tiger Woods told Golf Digest's Jamie Diaz that only two golfers in history "owned their swing": Moe Norman and Ben Hogan.


Here's an interesting youtube video about Moe. It's actually a semi-advertisement for Graves Golf but I am mainly referring to the first few minutes of the video about Moe. Let's not turn this into an anti-Todd Graves thing.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZbNdBg9p18"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=FZbNdBg9p18[/url]

[BogeyDog11]

zzy, You made my week with that post. It said it all. Too bad a few others don't get it.

[TheDarkOne]

The problems with Norman have already been laid out, his length and his putting.

Was he the greatest ball striker ever? Depends on how you define that. If you are talking about the Canadian Tour or the driving range, absolutely no question. If the PGA tour is the measuring stick, no way. To me being the best is directly related to the stage upon which you preform. He had his chance and things didn't work out, as is the case with thousands of very good players.

If the argument was being made he was the best that didn't play the tour for any length of time, I would agree. But to compare him to Hogan, Nicklaus, Trevino and the other players one would associate with great ball strikers is absurd.

[justinp766]

[quote name='ernschaeden' timestamp='1292343295' post='2840379']
what stopped him from being a pro?
[/quote]

He was considered artistic and when he was on the range at the masters , a good golf pro(forget his name) game him a good tip to use when he had shot a 75 in the 1st round, and Moe took this advice and obessevely smashed over 1000 golf balls on the range that night and his blisters were so bad that he couldnt hold a golf club the next day ( his hands were swollen and red with no top layer of skin).
According to ESPN documentary, what really set him off was when he was hitting these crazy shots and saying random phrases to the audience, a couple tour pros and officials took him over to the corner and pretty much talked down to him and told him that they are sick of his antics.... Moe didn't take to kindly to this left after the 1st round of the Masters the (the 2nd one he attended)

This is from what I saw on the golf channel documentary.

He then proceeded to rack up something like over 40 canadian pro titles during his time in canada and had shot 3 scores of "59".

[gators78]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1292364181' post='2840968']
The problems with Norman have already been laid out, his length and his putting.

Was he the greatest ball striker ever? Depends on how you define that. If you are talking about the Canadian Tour or the driving range, absolutely no question. If the PGA tour is the measuring stick, no way. To me being the best is directly related to the stage upon which you preform. He had his chance and things didn't work out, as is the case with thousands of very good players.

If the argument was being made he was the best that didn't play the tour for any length of time, I would agree. But to compare him to Hogan, Nicklaus, Trevino and the other players one would associate with great ball strikers is absurd.
[/quote]

I'll give you possibly the putting, but this has been debated at length and Moe was certainly not a short hitter.

Watch the videos of when he was young and tell me this physique and speed would have trouble hitting it 280+, because frankly that looks pretty powerful to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiBX1LnOWCI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOtScxKhxdI&playnext=1&list=PL3EDE26572185D3DA&index=66

[BogeyDog11]

[quote name='justinp766' timestamp='1292373146' post='2841183']
He was considered [b]artistic[/b] and when he was on the range at the masters , a good golf pro(forget his name) game him a good tip to use when he had shot a 75 in the 1st round, and Moe took this advice and obessevely smashed over 1000 golf balls on the range that night and his blisters were so bad that he couldnt hold a golf club the next day ( his hands were swollen and red with no top layer of skin).
According to ESPN documentary, what really set him off was when he was hitting these crazy shots and saying random phrases to the audience, a couple tour pros and officials took him over to the corner and pretty much talked down to him and told him that they are sick of his antics.... Moe didn't take to kindly to this left after the 1st round of the Masters the (the 2nd one he attended)
This is from what I saw on the golf channel documentary.
He then proceeded to rack up something like over 40 canadian pro titles during his time in canada and had shot 3 scores of "59".
[/quote]

I think the correct word is autistic. Bottom line was he was a very special person.

[Chappie]

I play with a single capper who swings like Moe. It's a good swing, something easy and repetitive. I think it does compromise power, but the flipside is you can be a lot more accurate. All in all, it's a shame he never stayed on the Tour, because I bet he would've been a big winner in the end.

[JVill]

As it has been said by many, golf is two games one played in the air and the other played on the ground. Has golf ever had a winner who can claim to be the absolute best at both?

The longest driver is not on the PGA tour. The straightest driver over 250 yards average is likely on the tour. The best putter is likely not on the PGA tour. The best sand player likely is. The best wedge player likely is. The best iron player likely is.

Moe was just quite good at one part of the game; really good.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1292359491' post='2840869']
[quote name='kamtile' timestamp='1292359296' post='2840861']
To the naysayers (of which this board has many) Mo had 33 course records, yes I said 33. Many of those still stand today.
[/quote]

INCREDIBLE!
[/quote]


Wowsers..that is really something.

I wonder what clubs he hit. Anyone know?

[JVill]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1292377281' post='2841297']


Wowsers..that is really something.

I wonder what clubs he hit. Anyone know?
[/quote]
When I saw him on the range in the early 90's on a Monday or Tuesday of a PGA tournament, he just grabbed the club of one of the players practicing and showd him what how to hit it straight.. In a few minutes, everybody on the practice range was there watching him for about 20 minutes hitting shot after shot. It was hilarious.

[zzy]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1292377281' post='2841297']
[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1292359491' post='2840869']
[quote name='kamtile' timestamp='1292359296' post='2840861']
To the naysayers (of which this board has many) Mo had 33 course records, yes I said 33. Many of those still stand today.
[/quote]

INCREDIBLE!
[/quote]


Wowsers..that is really something.

I wonder what clubs he hit. Anyone know?
[/quote]

He played Titleist later on, irons and balls for sure for most of his later life. Not sure of the model.

Here's the thing with Moe's clubs (I got to hold one!) - they were EXTREMELY heavy. Like E0 swingweight heavy and I think they were counterweigthed. I asked him about what clubs I should get (was a starting junior at the time) and he said accuracy was more important than distance and he liked a heavy club to slow his swing. Thus his lack of distance was by design. I can definitely tell you he could have had a much more powerful swing if he used a stronger Hogan-like wrist c0ck.

[danattherock]

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1292359457' post='2840868']
AWESOME post zzy!!!
[/quote]

Best I have read in a long time. Thanks Izzy


-Dan