Tiger Stacked at Torrey 2011

[rsballer10]

I think people are jumping to conclusions about whether his new Foley/ S&T swing is working. I think Sean Foley and Tiger deserve more than a couple months of time before it's time to evaluate whether his new swing is better for TIGER. I just don't see how one person makes or breaks the method. Another thing to consider is the fact that despite his poor driving accuracy, his misses weren't off the planet, he wasn't doing as much Charles Barkley in the downswing, and more of a low and left release. He used to sling it with his hands on his big misses.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='whatwhatwhat' timestamp='1296270241' post='2933814']
Im sorry but wasnt leaning away from the target on the way down a fundamental principle of S&T when it first came out? Seems they abandoned that now, Im all for staying centred during the backswing, but S&T strikes me as gimmicky, has it ever won on tour?
[/quote]
9 wins for Mike and Andy's guys. S&T has always been a centered pattern the entire swing from start to finish since it was first publicly released in 2005. Head was never supposed to move back on downswing, but axis tilt is present in all good swings

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='redfirebird08' timestamp='1296244414' post='2932786']
[quote name='stuckntx' timestamp='1296243291' post='2932736']
If Tiger didn't have it in him to choose a new non-method teacher, then he should have swallowed his pride and gone back to Butch.
I just can't believe that Tiger is choosing to swing like a robot. He has crushed the competition for a decade, and now, he decides that he wants to change his swing to look like the guys he's been crushing. WTF????
[/quote]


To be fair, he was crushing them from '05 to '09 primarily because of his scrambling and putting ability. Guarantee you he would rather play from the fairway like Mahan instead of the trees.
[/quote]


Ummmm...do you have the stats to back that up? You might want to check. He was pretty much near the top in GIR in all those years, despite only playing in the toughest events. No Bob Hope Desert Classics or Kapalua Invitationals, or events where 25 under was winning. 2008 he plays on one leg. 2009 he comes back and after 9 months off and wins 7 events. You don't do that with scrambling ability and putting alone. Love when I read this stuff...nonsense. PGATour.com will give you all the info you need to know.

Tiger was frustrated with his driver in 2009, but everything else was pretty darn good. After watching him today, missing it both right and left with his 3 wood, it's obvious he still doesn't have it.

[JMac02]

[quote name='rsballer10' timestamp='1296270446' post='2933822']
I think people are jumping to conclusions about whether his new Foley/ S&T swing is working. I think Sean Foley and Tiger deserve more than a couple months of time before it's time to evaluate whether his new swing is better for TIGER. I just don't see how one person makes or breaks the method. Another thing to consider is the fact that despite his poor driving accuracy, his misses weren't off the planet, he wasn't doing as much Charles Barkley in the downswing, and more of a low and left release. He used to sling it with his hands on his big misses.
[/quote]

Hopefully no one under a handicap of 30 would be compared to Barkley

[Oldboy]

Man it just goes to show how high expectations are for tiger.. Or how much some people want him to fail.. He seems to be more and more comfortable.. Lets give him a few events to evaluate but it will always come down to his putting (and short game).. I personally like the new action.. Foley must be presenting ball flight laws with him so what does that mean?? and maybe more importantly will he stick with the cameron? Going back an forth with putters will be more destructive than him being stacked or not

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='zerofade' timestamp='1296272710' post='2933913']
Man it just goes to show how high expectations are for tiger.. Or how much some people want him to fail.. He seems to be more and more comfortable.. Lets give him a few events to evaluate but it will always come down to his putting (and short game).. I personally like the new action.. Foley must be presenting ball flight laws with him so what does that mean?? and maybe more importantly will he stick with the cameron? Going back an forth with putters will be more destructive than him being stacked or not
[/quote]

Ummmm, you think Foley is the only instructor who knows about the new ball flight laws?

Indeed though, swing changes take time, but Foley's own stable is responsible for hyping it up...Mahan said Tiger would "get it" in a couple months. We'll know where things stand by the PGA Championship.

[Oldboy]

I never said that bro.. Just sayin maybe its new for tiger.. Dunno bout haney

[MK7Golf21]

tiger cheveron, charli wi on right

 

[tembolo1284]

Very nice pics! Tiger is definitely a bit more on his right side at the top of the bs. He also drives forward more and the followthroughs are totally different. Tiger also compresses into the ground more as can be seen by his head lowering in both his bs and ds. Wi I think is special in that his head doesn't really lower much...but then again he's not a power player, and Tiger is. Fascinating comparisons nonetheless!

[tembolo1284]

It could be that Tiger was hitting a more punchy draw fairway wood on that shot. He took some turf and that could explain why he let his center move so much. Compared to Tiger Wi looks like he hung back there a bit.

Seems to me when you are so much on your left side throughout the swing(relative to traditional move) you really have to get your spine tilted away from the target during the ds if you want to hit the ball real high. Seems the setup will promote that.

I wonder if we can get some footage of Tiger with his new move when he's trying to hit one real high.

[stryper]

[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1296269430' post='2933771']
Did anyone notice how many references Faldo made to Tiger being "stacked"? He continually talked about how he was working on keeping his weight left, staying centered, etc. Hmmm....


[u]On a side note, whether Tiger is "stacked" or not, he'll NEVER give ANYONE or ANYTHING credit but himself. This, we all know[/u].
[/quote]
Can't say I agree with this. In fact, when interviewed, It is not at all uncommon for Tiger to refer to whichever instructor he is working with at the time--[i]Sean and I are working on this; Hank and I are working on that;[/i] etc....

Along those lines, why would he give the instructor credit for his ultimate performance? After all, it is the student who keeps the grade on his college transcript in the end, not the professor. Nowhere will it be noted that it was the professor who failed, should that be the case. To be fair, should Tiger publicly point the finger at Hank for his own pre-Foley performance failure?

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='zerofade' timestamp='1296273588' post='2933947']
I never said that bro.. Just sayin maybe its new for tiger.. Dunno bout haney
[/quote]

I can assure you that Hank was well aware of the new ball flight laws while he was still coaching Tiger.

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1296300131' post='2934278']
Very nice pics! Tiger is definitely a bit more on his right side at the top of the bs. He also drives forward more and the followthroughs are totally different. Tiger also compresses into the ground more as can be seen by his head lowering in both his bs and ds. Wi I think is special in that his head doesn't really lower much...but then again he's not a power player, and Tiger is. Fascinating comparisons nonetheless!
[/quote]


What really stands out to me in these photos is that Charlie has virtually no hip turn in his back swing! Only way he can generate any power at all is with that big hip thrust in the down swing.

Second thing that stands out is that Tiger's left leg is dead straight impact, whereas you can clearly see the flex in Charlie's knee. Tiger's gonna need knee surgery again if he can't lose that move.

[bladestriker]

[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1296310026' post='2934385']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1296300131' post='2934278']
Very nice pics! Tiger is definitely a bit more on his right side at the top of the bs. He also drives forward more and the followthroughs are totally different. Tiger also compresses into the ground more as can be seen by his head lowering in both his bs and ds. Wi I think is special in that his head doesn't really lower much...but then again he's not a power player, and Tiger is. Fascinating comparisons nonetheless!
[/quote]


What really stands out to me in these photos is that Charlie has virtually no hip turn in his back swing! Only way he can generate any power at all is with that[size=3] [i][b]big hip thrust in the down swing[/b][/i][/size][i][b].[/b][/i]

Second thing that stands out is that Tiger's left leg is dead straight impact, whereas you can clearly see the flex in Charlie's knee. Tiger's gonna need knee surgery again if he can't lose that move.
[/quote]

Looks like a giant slide to me

[mvmac]

Charlie gets plenty of hip turn, that's why he straightens his right leg to free up his hip movement and gets his arms to swing deep.

[attachment=720301:Charlie P4 3.jpg]

Giant slide is correct, especially with a driver. Produces the shallowest attack, gets the hands forward and keeps the head relatively centered

[attachment=720306:Charlie P4-P7 caddy.jpg]

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='stryper' timestamp='1296307685' post='2934341']
[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1296269430' post='2933771']
Did anyone notice how many references Faldo made to Tiger being "stacked"? He continually talked about how he was working on keeping his weight left, staying centered, etc. Hmmm....


[u]On a side note, whether Tiger is "stacked" or not, he'll NEVER give ANYONE or ANYTHING credit but himself. This, we all know[/u].
[/quote]
Can't say I agree with this. In fact, when interviewed, It is not at all uncommon for Tiger to refer to whichever instructor he is working with at the time--[i]Sean and I are working on this; Hank and I are working on that;[/i] etc....

Along those lines, why would he give the instructor credit for his ultimate performance? After all, it is the student who keeps the grade on his college transcript in the end, not the professor. Nowhere will it be noted that it was the professor who failed, should that be the case. To be fair, should Tiger publicly point the finger at Hank for his own pre-Foley performance failure?
[/quote]

Pre-Foley performance failure? Where is the failure? His last full year with Hank, he won 7 tournaments with 17 top 10s in 19 events. Last tournament they worked together was Augusta last year, and he finished 4th in his first tournament of the year. Tiger was on his own after Augusta, as he never called Hank back to Florida after that.

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='mvmac' timestamp='1296324805' post='2934854']
Charlie gets plenty of hip turn, that's why he straightens his right leg to free up his hip movement and gets his arms to swing deep.

[attachment=720301:Charlie P4 3.jpg]

Giant slide is correct, especially with a driver. Produces the shallowest attack, gets the hands forward and keeps the head relatively centered

[attachment=720306:Charlie P4-P7 caddy.jpg]
[/quote]

Ummm, I still don't see much of a hip turn in the down the line view, but whatever. I wasn't criticizing his lack of hip turn, just surprised to see how little he has in the back swing. Some people simply have limited range of motion in that regard.

[yourhonoryourhonor]

So when does Tiger bail on this Charlie Wi swing?

[stryper]

[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1296332554' post='2935110']
[quote name='stryper' timestamp='1296307685' post='2934341']
[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1296269430' post='2933771']
Did anyone notice how many references Faldo made to Tiger being "stacked"? He continually talked about how he was working on keeping his weight left, staying centered, etc. Hmmm....


[u]On a side note, whether Tiger is "stacked" or not, he'll NEVER give ANYONE or ANYTHING credit but himself. This, we all know[/u].
[/quote]
Can't say I agree with this. In fact, when interviewed, It is not at all uncommon for Tiger to refer to whichever instructor he is working with at the time--[i]Sean and I are working on this; Hank and I are working on that;[/i] etc....

Along those lines, why would he give the instructor credit for his ultimate performance? After all, it is the student who keeps the grade on his college transcript in the end, not the professor. Nowhere will it be noted that it was the professor who failed, should that be the case. To be fair, should Tiger publicly point the finger at Hank for his own pre-Foley performance failure?
[/quote]

Pre-Foley performance failure? Where is the failure? His last full year with Hank, he won 7 tournaments with 17 top 10s in 19 events. Last tournament they worked together was Augusta last year, and he finished 4th in his first tournament of the year. Tiger was on his own after Augusta, as he never called Hank back to Florida after that.
[/quote]
It seems you've missed the point of my post. The point is, if a coach/professor wants credit for any given success, then a coach/professor should also accept blame for any failure as well. Ultimately, however, it is the player who owns the play, regardless of its relative success.

As to Tiger, while he does freely credit his coaches for the things they are working on, I've never heard him assign blame. (Perhaps he does in some venue to which I/we don't have access, but I don't know this.) So, of the flaws we might agree on in his character, I'm not sure that is one.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='bladestriker' timestamp='1296310831' post='2934415']
[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1296310026' post='2934385']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1296300131' post='2934278']
Very nice pics! Tiger is definitely a bit more on his right side at the top of the bs. He also drives forward more and the followthroughs are totally different. Tiger also compresses into the ground more as can be seen by his head lowering in both his bs and ds. Wi I think is special in that his head doesn't really lower much...but then again he's not a power player, and Tiger is. Fascinating comparisons nonetheless!
[/quote]


What really stands out to me in these photos is that Charlie has virtually no hip turn in his back swing! Only way he can generate any power at all is with that[size="3"] [i][b]big hip thrust in the down swing[/b][/i][/size][i][b].[/b][/i]

Second thing that stands out is that Tiger's left leg is dead straight impact, whereas you can clearly see the flex in Charlie's knee. Tiger's gonna need knee surgery again if he can't lose that move.
[/quote]

Looks like a giant slide to me
[/quote]

The hip slide is a SnT thing.

I agree it's not much of a hip turn. He doesn't have much of a shoulder turn either. He's not a power player though with a huge turn...he's a precision player.

Agree with the left knee straightening. Don't know what the F he's doing. But let's see what happens over the next few events. I'm watching him getting stuck and blocking shots...so he's clearly not comfy yet with his new move. He's also pushing putts. Come on Tiger, FIX IT!

[redfirebird08]

[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1296271685' post='2933863']

Ummmm...do you have the stats to back that up? You might want to check. He was pretty much near the top in GIR in all those years, despite only playing in the toughest events. No Bob Hope Desert Classics or Kapalua Invitationals, or events where 25 under was winning. 2008 he plays on one leg. 2009 he comes back and after 9 months off and wins 7 events. You don't do that with scrambling ability and putting alone. Love when I read this stuff...nonsense. PGATour.com will give you all the info you need to know.

[/quote]


Uh, I consider part of his scrambling to be hitting miracle iron shots from the trees. He is a master at it, or used to be at least. He was a brilliant iron player at one time. That just isn't the case anymore. So now when he misses fairways, he isn't able to scramble as well as he used to.

[BackWoods]

OMG! Tiger is so using stack and tilt! It must be the correct way! All this time I thought it was crazy, but now I see the light.. This is a swing that will win majors, unlike his ridiculous old swing...

[SOONERMAGIC]

[quote name='stryper' timestamp='1296307685' post='2934341']
[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1296269430' post='2933771']
Did anyone notice how many references Faldo made to Tiger being "stacked"? He continually talked about how he was working on keeping his weight left, staying centered, etc. Hmmm....


[u]On a side note, whether Tiger is "stacked" or not, he'll NEVER give ANYONE or ANYTHING credit but himself. This, we all know[/u].
[/quote]
Can't say I agree with this. In fact, when interviewed, It is not at all uncommon for Tiger to refer to whichever instructor he is working with at the time--[i]Sean and I are working on this; Hank and I are working on that;[/i] etc....

Along those lines, why would he give the instructor credit for his ultimate performance? After all, it is the student who keeps the grade on his college transcript in the end, not the professor. Nowhere will it be noted that it was the professor who failed, should that be the case. To be fair, should Tiger publicly point the finger at Hank for his own pre-Foley performance failure?
[/quote]


I would have to agree with you, he does always mention his coaches. Everyone is so quick to bash on Tiger... Its funny. Almost like he is the only somewhat selfish person on the planet. WE ARE ALL SELFISH. ITS SELFISH TO NOT ADMIT THIS!! lol...

[GetmeouttaJersey]

[quote name='stryper' timestamp='1296337254' post='2935261']
[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1296332554' post='2935110']
[quote name='stryper' timestamp='1296307685' post='2934341']
[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1296269430' post='2933771']
Did anyone notice how many references Faldo made to Tiger being "stacked"? He continually talked about how he was working on keeping his weight left, staying centered, etc. Hmmm....


[u]On a side note, whether Tiger is "stacked" or not, he'll NEVER give ANYONE or ANYTHING credit but himself. This, we all know[/u].
[/quote]
Can't say I agree with this. In fact, when interviewed, It is not at all uncommon for Tiger to refer to whichever instructor he is working with at the time--[i]Sean and I are working on this; Hank and I are working on that;[/i] etc....

Along those lines, why would he give the instructor credit for his ultimate performance? After all, it is the student who keeps the grade on his college transcript in the end, not the professor. Nowhere will it be noted that it was the professor who failed, should that be the case. To be fair, should Tiger publicly point the finger at Hank for his own pre-Foley performance failure?
[/quote]

Pre-Foley performance failure? Where is the failure? His last full year with Hank, he won 7 tournaments with 17 top 10s in 19 events. Last tournament they worked together was Augusta last year, and he finished 4th in his first tournament of the year. Tiger was on his own after Augusta, as he never called Hank back to Florida after that.
[/quote]
It seems you've missed the point of my post. The point is, if a coach/professor wants credit for any given success, then a coach/professor should also accept blame for any failure as well. Ultimately, however, it is the player who owns the play, regardless of its relative success.

As to Tiger, while he does freely credit his coaches for the things they are working on, I've never heard him assign blame. (Perhaps he does in some venue to which I/we don't have access, but I don't know this.) So, of the flaws we might agree on in his character, I'm not sure that is one.
[/quote]


All I was trying to say is that Tiger will NEVER say he is following a swing method that a lot of other guys are as well. He'll never come out and say he's SnT when he may adapt 90% of the swing methodologies... You are 100% correct in saying he does acknowledge his instructor.

[GetmeouttaJersey]

[quote name='SOONERMAGIC' timestamp='1296340977' post='2935388']
[quote name='stryper' timestamp='1296307685' post='2934341']
[quote name='GetmeouttaJersey' timestamp='1296269430' post='2933771']
Did anyone notice how many references Faldo made to Tiger being "stacked"? He continually talked about how he was working on keeping his weight left, staying centered, etc. Hmmm....


[u]On a side note, whether Tiger is "stacked" or not, he'll NEVER give ANYONE or ANYTHING credit but himself. This, we all know[/u].
[/quote]
Can't say I agree with this. In fact, when interviewed, It is not at all uncommon for Tiger to refer to whichever instructor he is working with at the time--[i]Sean and I are working on this; Hank and I are working on that;[/i] etc....

Along those lines, why would he give the instructor credit for his ultimate performance? After all, it is the student who keeps the grade on his college transcript in the end, not the professor. Nowhere will it be noted that it was the professor who failed, should that be the case. To be fair, should Tiger publicly point the finger at Hank for his own pre-Foley performance failure?
[/quote]


I would have to agree with you, he does always mention his coaches. Everyone is so quick to bash on Tiger... Its funny. Almost like he is the only somewhat selfish person on the planet. WE ARE ALL SELFISH. ITS SELFISH TO NOT ADMIT THIS!! lol...
[/quote]

Agree. He definitely acknowledges his instructor. Never bashed Tiger though. He is part of the reason I got into golf. There is still no one more exciting to watch down the stretch. It's ashame his public persona will never be the same. ..

[Siteseer2]

[color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Lets give it some time... Irons are looking better, long stuff (and short game stuff), not so much....I see a guy who's left arm is too far inside the baseline at p5, and he is trying to over-rotate his shoulders from p5.5 to p8 to stay on the circle. He either needs to shift out and down earlier ala Snead, or hit cf fades ala P&B boys... He's early into some RADICAL changes--wow, he must REALLY have been frustrated to throw the whole Haney model out the window, and go total SnT/Foley method. I think it will work, and he's starting to look better (despite the "struggles" mentioned), but it will take a year, imo. Short game will be a mess for a while, as shaft plane/low point is WAY different....jmho...
[/size][/color]

[DavePelz4]

60% of the time Tiger is 100% SnT. He's also rocking Sex Panther.

[gators78]

I know the Haney stuff wasn't as good as he would've liked, but I keep feeling he's gonna get lapped by people while he's demolishing-rebuilding all this swing stuff, and he's racing the clock for his body holding together.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1296349749' post='2935793']
60% of the time Tiger is 100% SnT. He's also rocking Sex Panther.
[/quote]

This post is awesome.

[tembolo1284]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/user/wdefrancesco#p/u/0/4hG9GaXzGTM"]http://www.youtube.c...u/0/4hG9GaXzGTM[/url]

Just came across this video. Hey snT guys...is this much movement of the head to the right allowed? I'm actually surprised to see this movement. Explains why he appears to be with more weight on the right leg at the top compared to Charlie Wi.

He's hitting a punchy 3 wood too...so even more surprised he has head movement right. I know everyone moves a bit...but I thought he was working on staying centered? What gives?