CP Release?

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1298468997' post='3002431']
Depends on angle of attack but a 3 iron baseline would need to be about 2 degrees more right than a 9 iron baseline to get same path for both clubs. Very small I would agree but [b]decent info to have[/b]
[/quote]

sorry, i thought you were still replying to d, yeah i agree, very useful,

[b]better info is always better[/b]

what ever the field, science is good. though personally i'd rather trackman was a non-commercial org, to much of a deliberate push for zeroed out 'sweet spot' straight balls, when to date by observation it seems non-optimum, at the very least an extremely rare variation of optimum.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

let me get this straight d,

all instructors are wrong and mislead.
when a student follows no one they must be dumb.
when they are smart they must be with out reason.
when they contemplate they are fooled.

seems an extraordinarily unlikely set of circumstances for a 1000 year old game, lol.

who's not hogan ?

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1298552056' post='3004941']
let me get this straight d,all instructors are wrong and mislead. when a student follows no one they must be dumb.when they are smart they must be with out reason.when they contemplate they are fooled.

seems an extraordinarily unlikely set of circumstances for a 1000 year old game, lol.who's not hogan ?
[/quote]

Are you a poet or philosopher, j ?

Let me get it straight for you, too. Step by step:
- pic.no.1. - bad angle to determine fully but diagonal stance principles visible (feet closed in relation to hips, hips open in relation to shoulders);
- pic.no.2. - same as above, except one can say anyhing about feet;
- pic.no.3. - diagonal stance in its full beautiful form;
- pic.no.4. - diagonal stance in its full beautiful form;
- pic no.5. - a good example to support the thesis that Hogan used parallel stance and played push-fade(draw) shots sometimes;
- pic.no.6. - as above;
- pic.no.7. - the diagonal stance principles visible (feet closed in relation to hips, hips open in relation to shoulders);
- pic.no.8. - bad angle to determine anything for sure but it can be a good example to support the thesis that Hogan used parallel stance and played push-fade(draw) shots sometimes;
- pic.no.9. - the diagonal stance principles visible (feet closed in relation to hips, hips open in relation to shoulders);
- pic.no.10. - no Hogan on the pic;
- pic.no.11. - diagonal stance in its full beautiful form;
- pic.no.12. - a good example to support the thesis that Hogan used parallel stance and played push-fade(draw) shots sometimes;
- pic.no.13. - a good example to support the thesis that Hogan used parallel stance and played push-fade(draw) shots sometimes;
- pic.no.14 - the diagonal stance principles visible (feet closed in relation to hips, hips open in relation to shoulders);
- pic.no.15. - no Hogan on the pic.

As you can see, I am pretty objective and even gracious with my descriptions. At least half of pics you presented not only do not support your thesis, but somehow support mine.

Now you tell me something, j - how is it that such a great Hogan expert cannot recognize if there is really Hogan on the footage/picture or not ?

Cheers

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298554293' post='3004987']
As you can see, I am pretty objective and even gracious with my descriptions. At least half of pics you presented not only do not support your thesis, but somehow support mine.
[/quote]
which thesis ? i said he varied, you were more rigid, [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/446546-the-push-fade/page__view__findpost__p__2989470"]here is a quote[/url] from you only a week ago.

[quote]Posted 18 February 2011 - 09:40 AM
I was attacked some weeks ago that I do not know what a push-fade is and was persuaded to support a silly thesis that Hogan hit push-fades (!) with his closed feet stance.
Now, the inclosed Couples's diagramme is what I would classify as a push-fade: feet line open in relation to initial ball flight direction. Same as Trevino did. But [b]never Hogan[/b]. Unless we find another correlation as e.g. hips line in relation to initial ball flight direction. Let's clear it before some will try to blind eyes of readers again.

Cheers [/quote]

now your saying he varied. ...and you brushed over the open shorter clubs, he was closer to 5 lessons than you present, imo. if i wanted to pick apart biok i wouldn't of put all those images up, i could choose 2 or 3 damming shots, i was trying to show some objective variations. with some of the swings you'd want to study the shadows to make a guess at set up lines.

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298554293' post='3004987']
Now you tell me something, j - how is it that such a great Hogan expert cannot recognize if there is really Hogan on the footage/picture or not ?

Cheers
[/quote]

you'll have to answer that one yourself, lol.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ichED9EAxU4&t=2m14s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ichED9EAxU4&t=2m14s[/url]
2m14s in:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ichED9EAxU4[/media]


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQXqH7Bd9O8&t=0m18s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQXqH7Bd9O8&t=0m18s[/url]
0m18s in:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQXqH7Bd9O8[/media]

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298536793' post='3004803']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1298509623' post='3003960']
Some examples
[/quote]

Well, frankly speaking I was expecting something different than just three pics that prolly shows adaptation of the stance for a given scenario (e.g. desired trajectory). I believe the knowledge how to set one's stance in order to cure one's compensations is great and cannot be underrated, but this is not what I would like to discuss right now.
The fundamental question is if O'Grady claims that the stance should not be parallel because of important objective reasons, independently on one's microscale issues (compensations), simply because it is better for all humans playing golf. I claim that it is.

Cheers
[/quote]
He teaches feet closed and shoulders/hips open. He sets up that way on all shots he plays that I've ever seen, amount varied depending on shot and club but feet closed and shoulders open. I wont get into exact info on how many degree as its not my place to give out Mac's info. I already said he teaches that earlier, and is not a compensation, so I don't understand your issue, except that you always seem to have one.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1298557567' post='3005103']which thesis ? i said he varied, you were more rigid, now your saying he varied. ...and you brushed over the open shorter clubs, he was closer to 5 lessons than you present, imo. if i wanted to pick apart biok i wouldn't of put all those images up, i could choose 2 or 3 damming shots, i was trying to show some objective variations. with some of the swings you'd want to study the shadows to make a guess at set up lines.[/quote]

I always said he might and he varied, however, I said that his stock fade was pull-fade taking into account the closed feet stance from purely technical point of view. I said that his feet stance was open seldom. That's all.
As regards if he was closer to '5 Lessons' or to what Dickinson and Burke saw (or I can see watching his footages and pics with my own eyes) - it's a subjective matter of everyone of us whom to believe.

[quote]you'll have to answer that one yourself, lol.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ichED9EAxU4&t=2m14s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ichED9EAxU4&t=2m14s[/url]
2m14s in:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ichED9EAxU4[/media]


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQXqH7Bd9O8&t=0m18s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQXqH7Bd9O8&t=0m18s[/url]
0m18s in:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQXqH7Bd9O8[/media]
[/quote]

The fact that someone puts fragments of video (made by a contemporary fan of Hogan's swing stylized at Hogan) to a compilation being fooled that's real Hogan is not a proof. It is not Hogan. Don't you see this ? If it's Hogan please present me a link to a historical footage here and I'd be the first to admit I am mistaken and to apologize openly.



[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1298563537' post='3005341']He teaches feet closed and shoulders/hips open. He sets up that way on all shots he plays that I've ever seen, amount varied depending on shot and club but feet closed and shoulders open. I wont get into exact info on how many degree as its not my place to give out Mac's info. I already said he teaches that earlier, and is not a compensation, so I don't understand your issue, except that you always seem to have one.
[/quote]

And I wanted to be nice...what issue do I have ? You were talking before in this thread why you use closed feet/open shoulders stance so that it helps you to compensate for something in your own motion.
OTOH, I wanted to know and just asked if we can regard O'Grady's school as the only one big school of golf that is of the opinion that parallel stance is not the best option for a golfer from mechanical point of view irregardless of anything else.
That's all for God's sake.

Cheers

[iteachgolf]

I wouldnt say only but probably one of the first, and I agreed and post examples of Mac's setup. I setup up closed to encourage deeper turn and correct slide/rotation ration in the downswing. I change the shoulders position depending on where I want the baseline to be but the feet are always right of the target. Shoulders are the only thing that i change, lower half is virtually the same for every shot

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1298566528' post='3005477']
I wouldnt say only but probably one of the first, and I agreed and post examples of Mac's setup. [/quote]

And this is the info I wanted, thanks. Another argument to my private collection of intuitions that MORAD can be a cure for today's instruction. Unfortunately, my access to such infos is extremely limited, hence I call them "intuitions".
You may believe me or not, but I haven't ever heard about anyone different than myself prescribing a non-parallel stance as better for humans playing golf. Until this thread.

Cheers

[Staffer]

I guess you guys have already covered this, in like a million posts, before, but...

What about the "kicked in" right knee at address, and the way it moves the knee line to the left in relation to the feet line? Is it important or?

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298565632' post='3005432']
The fact that someone puts fragments of video (made by a contemporary fan of Hogan's swing stylized at Hogan) to a compilation being fooled that's real Hogan is not a proof. It is not Hogan. Don't you see this ? If it's Hogan please present me a link to a historical footage here and I'd be the first to admit I am mistaken and to apologize openly.
[/quote]

right i'll search and find proof that it is hogan, it might take a while. is this revenge for annoying you ? lol

but if i'm going to do this, in the mean time, can you analysis this impostor and tell me what you think hogan would tell him to change to make his swing the same as hogans. he seems pretty close to me, maybe he should bring out a 'secret' ebook, lol.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1298577040' post='3005954']
I guess you guys have already covered this, in like a million posts, before, but...

What about the "kicked in" right knee at address, and the way it moves the knee line to the left in relation to the feet line? Is it important or?
[/quote]

There are quite a few explanations about the rear knee. Some e.g. say it is conscious position linked to the so-called reverse-K at address. My theory is that it is a natural reaction to of presetting the torques in rear ankle/knee joints.
The importance of it is relatively huge, namely, it prevents the rear hip from sliding laterally away from the target (instead turning).


[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1298577491' post='3005975']right i'll search and find proof that it is hogan, it might take a while. is this revenge for annoying you ? lol

but if i'm going to do this, in the mean time, can you analysis this impostor and tell me what you think hogan would tell him to change to make his swing the same as hogans. he seems pretty close to me, maybe he should bring out a 'secret' ebook, lol.
[/quote]

Found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqI6IzDdpZM

If you look closely at the DTL view you can clearily see that this guy's face profile is entirely different than Hogan's. Moreover, there are other physical differences - this guy's too slim, his forearms too weak, his shoes are rather contemporary, etc. etc.

As regards the very swing motion - he's surprisingly close indeed but something does not match to me. Who knows, it can be a sophisticated montage here. Readr also oldest commentaries (!).

Cheers

[Staffer]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298579081' post='3006042']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1298577040' post='3005954']
I guess you guys have already covered this, in like a million posts, before, but...

What about the "kicked in" right knee at address, and the way it moves the knee line to the left in relation to the feet line? Is it important or?
[/quote]

There are quite a few explanations about the rear knee. Some e.g. say it is conscious position linked to the so-called reverse-K at address. My theory is that it is a natural reaction to of presetting the torques in rear ankle/knee joints.
The importance of it is relatively huge, namely, it prevents the rear hip from sliding laterally away from the target (instead turning).
[/quote]

Yeah, heard about reverse-K. But the way I figure you can kick the knee in 2 ways, either in a way that keeps the knee line aligned with (or even slightly to the right of) the feet line, or in a way that makes the knee line aligned left of the feet line. Did Hogan do either of these?

[Siteseer2]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298579081' post='3006042']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1298577040' post='3005954']
I guess you guys have already covered this, in like a million posts, before, but...

What about the "kicked in" right knee at address, and the way it moves the knee line to the left in relation to the feet line? Is it important or?
[/quote]

There are quite a few explanations about the rear knee. Some e.g. say it is conscious position linked to the so-called reverse-K at address. My theory is that it is a natural reaction to of presetting the torques in rear ankle/knee joints.
The importance of it is relatively huge, namely, it prevents the rear hip from sliding laterally away from the target (instead turning).


[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1298577491' post='3005975']right i'll search and find proof that it is hogan, it might take a while. is this revenge for annoying you ? lol

but if i'm going to do this, in the mean time, can you analysis this impostor and tell me what you think hogan would tell him to change to make his swing the same as hogans. he seems pretty close to me, maybe he should bring out a 'secret' ebook, lol.
[/quote]

Found this:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqI6IzDdpZM"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=FqI6IzDdpZM[/url]

If you look closely at the DTL view you can clearily see that this guy's face profile is entirely different than Hogan's. Moreover, there are other physical differences - this guy's too slim, his forearms too weak, his shoes are rather contemporary, etc. etc.

As regards the very swing motion - he's surprisingly close indeed but something does not match to me. Who knows, it can be a sophisticated montage here. Readr also oldest commentaries (!).

Cheers
[/quote]

THAT is "Spider"....Geoff's star pupil Matt Loving who died in a tragic auto accident last year. Closest Geoff EVER saw to Hogan...which is why he superimposed his swing over Hogans....RIP

[chris_golf]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298568305' post='3005564'] And this is the info I wanted, thanks. Another argument to my private collection of intuitions that MORAD can be a cure for today's instruction. Unfortunately, my access to such infos is extremely limited, hence I call them "intuitions". You may believe me or not, but [b]I haven't ever heard about anyone different than myself prescribing a non-parallel stance as better for humans playing golf.[/b] Until this thread. Cheers [/quote] [b]In this teaching video the guy wants a closed stance as well ... must be from the 80´s... I think a lot of the older tour players did it intentionally - it felt just right. I don´t think Billy Casper has a biomechnical answer for doing this.[/b] [b]But the truth is, it is somehow lost in teaching, exept in MORAD[/b]. <object width="480" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/koUPXbkAgeQ?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/koUPXbkAgeQ?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="390"></object> Chris

[Lake]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1298589991' post='3006553']
[b]In this teaching video the guy wants a closed stance as well ... must be from the 80´s... I think a lot of the older tour players did it intentionally - it felt just right. I don´t think Billy Casper has a biomechnical answer for doing this.[/b] [b]But the truth is, it is somehow lost in teaching, exept in MORAD[/b]. <object width="480" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/koUPXbkAgeQ?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/koUPXbkAgeQ?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="390"></object> Chris
[/quote]

Love this video Chris...brings me back to when I was a kid...thank-you for finding this...love youtube

[Siteseer2]

One of my faves:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VP4_Ohpiclg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298579081' post='3006042']
As regards the very swing motion - he's surprisingly close indeed but something does not match to me.
[/quote]


what doesn't match ?

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1298582963' post='3006233']Yeah, heard about reverse-K. But the way I figure you can kick the knee in 2 ways, either in a way that keeps the knee line aligned with (or even slightly to the right of) the feet line, or in a way that makes the knee line aligned left of the feet line. Did Hogan do either of these?
[/quote]

I have a trouble imagining what you're describing. Anyhow, my answer would not matter much since in my case, bending the knee inwards is just a natural reaction and cannot/shouldn't be steered. It just leaves no options.


[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1298589991' post='3006553']I think a lot of the older tour players did it intentionally - it felt just right. I don´t think Billy Casper has a biomechnical answer for doing this.[/b] [b]But the truth is, it is somehow lost in teaching, exept in MORAD[/b]. [/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree, Chris. As I said even somewhere in this thread - the diagonal stance is something that subconscious mind chooses if any dynamic activity is being taken into the Western direction. Many older players just felt it, but noone put a squeeze at this fact. Moreover, golf instruction (appears except MORAD) tried and still trying to propose an exactly opposite model.
As per biomechanical explanation - it's quite clear for me and it's no big problem to present coherent argumentation - as I did in one of my earlier posts. I am sure Mac would present his without any problems as well. Too bad that I cannot compare my version of argumentation with his one.


[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1298602518' post='3007230']what doesn't match ?
[/quote]

I don't know, it is just a feeling that something is not right. I'll try to compare clips on V1 parallelly step by step in the evening when I get on my home PC.

Cheers

[chris_golf]

[b]Setup of the right leg, knee and foot like George Knudson and Mr. Hogan... Looks to me this promotes more later hiprotation but than faster opening of the hips....[/b] <object width="480" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKtj4T71Vg?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZdKtj4T71Vg?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="390"></object>

[chris_golf]

[b]Same here:[/b] <object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wOO92e_TS_U?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wOO92e_TS_U?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="390"></object> [b]Just some quotes from George Knudson´s book: "I alter the plane to change curvature or ball flight by moving the feet. I realized an important factor concerning Hogan's placement of his left foot. He used the left foot to establish a stopping point in the swing. It set up a resistance in the left knee and hip that would stop him directly on target. This was a superb way of ensuring direction."Footwork is so important, if we move our legs, the rest of our body moves. Harvey Penick told me, Son, if you are going to play this game for a living, you'd better learn how to use your legs."""A golfer can do marvelous things with his feet. I believe in playing golf through your feet. Footwork is the VOLUNTARY action that initiates the motion."[/b][b]"Golf is full of misconceptions. This is the result of the majority of golf instruction ignores the aspect of motion" But even he used in his prime Mr. Hogans footwork he does not elaborate about this in his book! Chris[/b]

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298627956' post='3007774']
[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1298602518' post='3007230']what doesn't match ?
[/quote]

I don't know, it is just a feeling that something is not right. I'll try to compare clips on V1 parallelly step by step in the evening when I get on my home PC.

Cheers
[/quote]

cheers, give us the biok breakdown that you gave to all the other hogan impostors.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

the varied foot stance is old as the hills, very generally speaking historically,
personal preference & trial and error to find a base point,
then varied for club and shot as hogan wrote but didnt invent,
and generally an overall opinion of open or closed depending on which side of the pond you came from.

the old old ball was hard to get up, when they said sweep your cleek, they meant hit it fat, lol.

i think a better q is when did all parallels start ? i never done it and always considered it a base point tip for the proprioceptively-challenged, stop them ending up in knots diy fixing ball flight issues.

mac (at a guess obviously), lol, might be the first to attempt to approach spectrums of the variations/cause&effect in a more universal-scientific manner.

[HalfManHalfGod]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298536793' post='3004803']
- rear foot squared (less flared out) - to promote creating firm rear side from the ground up to ensure the linear motion occuring early enough which is the key of automating the transition;
[/quote]


This is interesting can you explain this further? I understand the firm rear side but the rest I'm not sure what your trying to say. Automating the transition sure sounds like something I want to employ in my swing.

Thanks!

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1298645238' post='3008064']cheers, give us the biok breakdown that you gave to all the other hogan impostors.
[/quote]

I admit I am stupid. I can see several differences but they are in an acceptable range of errors. The three biggest differences are: a. setup DTL, b. setup FO and c. transition FO. The rest is surprisingly Hoganesque (although rather pre-secret and pre-accident for sure):
[attachment=735701:Comp01.gif]
[attachment=735704:Comp04.gif]
[attachment=735703:Comp03.gif]

And what about your search ? Have you succeeed to find this footage somewhere except this YT vid ?


[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1298645989' post='3008085']
the varied foot stance is old as the hills, very generally speaking historically,
personal preference & trial and error to find a base point,
then varied for club and shot as hogan wrote but didnt invent,
and generally an overall opinion of open or closed depending on which side of the pond you came from.

the old old ball was hard to get up, when they said sweep your cleek, they meant hit it fat, lol.

i think a better q is when did all parallels start ? i never done it and always considered it a base point tip for the proprioceptively-challenged, stop them ending up in knots diy fixing ball flight issues.

mac (at a guess obviously), lol, might be the first to attempt to approach spectrums of the variations/cause&effect in a more universal-scientific manner.
[/quote]

I agree to the above. Neither me or O'Grady or even Hogan invented diagonal or non-parallel stance. The sad thing is that it is not a frequent topic today (while it definitely should). I believe that the key is awareness and understanding why this kind of stance is biomechanically better than a parallel one. That's why only golf instruction based on sound physical but also anatomical researches that is able to point out such issues has a bright future. IMO.

Cheers

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='HalfManHalfGod' timestamp='1298649727' post='3008188']This is interesting can you explain this further? I understand the firm rear side but the rest I'm not sure what your trying to say. Automating the transition sure sounds like something I want to employ in my swing.

Thanks!
[/quote]

It is a procedure based on such basic physical phenomena as friction and torques. The very mechanical procedure is being described in detail on my site here:

http://biokineticgolfswing.blogspot.com/2010/04/sagittal-plane-compression-concept-part_7030.html

The key to understanding the whole mechanism is to understand that meeting the anatomical limit of a joint's RoM results in reversing the orientation of the motion. Like one meets a hard rubber wall that bounce everything back with double power. Transition is nothing more but just rapid changing of the orientation of the motion. It would be a problem if we want to start everything altogether - that's why the sequentiality of the action from the ground up is crucial - the lower a joint is the sooner it must react back.

Hope that it helps, cheers.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298658073' post='3008554']
And what about your search ? Have you succeeed to find this footage somewhere except this YT vid ?
[/quote]

i'm sure it's on one of the official dvds, i thought you wanted to find where they sourced it.

i was hoping for something more like : pelvic trigger compression too small and lumber flexion too big, ..or maybe its just the pants aren't huge, ..[i]'clothes maketh the man'[/i] lol. ..yeah it looks pre-crash to me, the color might throw you off.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1298666747' post='3008712']
[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298658073' post='3008554']
And what about your search ? Have you succeeed to find this footage somewhere except this YT vid ?
[/quote]

i'm sure it's on one of the official dvds, i thought you wanted to find where they sourced it.

[/quote]

Yes, I would like to have a confirmation what is this footage taken from with this strange hat on Hogan's (?) head.
Perhaps someone knows the source here. I cannot prove it is not Hogan, which I admit. But to be sure it's Hogan, we still need to confirm it.

Cheers

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='Siteseer2' timestamp='1298583343' post='3006248']
[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1298579081' post='3006042']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1298577040' post='3005954']
I guess you guys have already covered this, in like a million posts, before, but...

What about the "kicked in" right knee at address, and the way it moves the knee line to the left in relation to the feet line? Is it important or?
[/quote]

There are quite a few explanations about the rear knee. Some e.g. say it is conscious position linked to the so-called reverse-K at address. My theory is that it is a natural reaction to of presetting the torques in rear ankle/knee joints.
The importance of it is relatively huge, namely, it prevents the rear hip from sliding laterally away from the target (instead turning).


[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1298577491' post='3005975']right i'll search and find proof that it is hogan, it might take a while. is this revenge for annoying you ? lol

but if i'm going to do this, in the mean time, can you analysis this impostor and tell me what you think hogan would tell him to change to make his swing the same as hogans. he seems pretty close to me, maybe he should bring out a 'secret' ebook, lol.
[/quote]

Found this:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqI6IzDdpZM"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=FqI6IzDdpZM[/url]

If you look closely at the DTL view you can clearily see that this guy's face profile is entirely different than Hogan's. Moreover, there are other physical differences - this guy's too slim, his forearms too weak, his shoes are rather contemporary, etc. etc.

As regards the very swing motion - he's surprisingly close indeed but something does not match to me. Who knows, it can be a sophisticated montage here. Readr also oldest commentaries (!).

Cheers
[/quote]

THAT is "Spider"....Geoff's star pupil Matt Loving who died in a tragic auto accident last year. Closest Geoff EVER saw to Hogan...which is why he superimposed his swing over Hogans....RIP
[/quote]
Couple of small points. First, that is absolutely 100% Hogan in the bucket hat. Not sure the year but pretty certain it was pre-accident.

The young guy is not Spider, but another College player that Geoff gave some lessons to. I don't recall his name though.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1298757450' post='3011119']First, that is absolutely 100% Hogan in the bucket hat. Not sure the year but pretty certain it was pre-accident.

[/quote]

OK, but what year and what does this footage come from ? I do not want to claim that I saw every possible footage of Hogan, but saw a lot and never ever seen this one. Moreover, the vast majority of Hogan's "original" vids are being doubled on YT (I am guilty for this as well) and there is no other "original" film with this one...

Cheers

[dap]

That sure as as heck looks like Hogan.He hits all of Ben's signature positions.If it's not him then this guy has to have the closest swing to Hogan ever.Someone must know him if that is the case.

It is 99.99% a young Hogan in all probability.You can see the biggest difference would be the strong grip which Ben used before 1946.