THE PRICE OF EQUIPTMENT

[DWCobraJR]

I agree that prices for new clubs are pretty ridiculous.

It has really gotten to the point where I don't even consider purchasing any clubs brand new. I always wait a year or buy something a little older that works the same as the new stuff. Especially with Drivers! That tech hasn't changed in any major way in 8 years. I have an FT-3 and an FT-5 that i bought this year and spent a total of $150 for both. Love them both and was actually able to get a Fubuki tour in the FT-5 for 70 bucks. Maybe its just me but I would prefer just to buy something a little older and upgrade the crap out of it with all the money I save

[bbrammeier]

[quote name='YipMaster' timestamp='1300973946' post='3083646']
[u][b]I'd like to see them (USGA, R&A) finally put a cap on how far a driver can hit the ball; not the COR, but actually how far the ball can go[/b][/u].

Hard not to justify spending half a grand on a new driver every year when it's 10 yards longer than the one I bought last year.
[/quote]

I'm sorry but this is the most absurd thing I have yet to hear today. The COR restriction is esentially putting a cap on how far the ball can go. If you go and look at the PGA stats the average driving distance for the past few year you will find that there is not huge difference like you believe. As for the second part of the statement if every year you bought a new driver that was truly 10 years longer, everyone would be hitting 400+ and thats clearly is not the case. I can hit my old R540 as far as my R7 and far as my 910 D3. The yardage gain that manufacturers claim is all marketing hype and the ways they justify it.

[Jimmy Mac]

Yeah, I'd say the prices have actually fallen a bit. I remember paying something around $600 for a Ping TISI Tec Driver when they first came out. Now Ping's newest hottest drivers have all been released at right around $300. I'm pretty sure my old PING i3 cost the same as a new set of i15's would be today.

It's just a natural market adjustment less demand because of a down economy, lower prices.

The other thing you have to take into account is that people WANT to spend $600-700 on golf equipment. Go to any WalMart and you can probably pick up a set of clubs for under $200. If you took the time to REALLY learn the swing and timing that works with those soft-shafted clubs, your scores would likely go up a lot less than you might expect. As cheap and poorly built as those clubs may be they're probably not as far behind the clubs used by pros in the 80's and 90' as you might expect.

Despite that, people are convinced that having a precision-built, tour-proven club makes a difference.

I happen to be among that group. I'm stupid like that.

[kitsoasis]

After reading through this thread again, it seems like people mistake expensive clubs with stupidly low resale value. The latter is true, which I guess makes the brand new prices seem more inflated.

[realitycheck]

[quote name='Mtngolfer1' timestamp='1300978940' post='3083874']
[size="3"]I am not sure you can put the rising cost of Golf on the equipment manufactures alone. The price of golf continues to increase on all levels. The game is actually loosing participation, getting smaller rather than increasing its player numbers. [/size]

[size="3"]I think this can be contributed to multiple factors, cost to play the game, the initial investment can be substantial (equipment) and the daily cost of play is not cheap in many areas (green fees) and instruction is also a cost many players new and old continue to incur. My wife pointed out to me the other day a pair of golf shorts I bought at a national golf retailer were $60.00 a similar pair of shorts she bought our son at a mall national clothing retail chain was $45.00. Both were tech fabrics both were similar plaid patterns both Bermuda lengths. We have all kinds of programs introducing players to the game, but the issue is once a player is introduced the game is not always affordable for them to continue play. [/size]

[size="3"]I consider myself very fortunate, I have been able to continue to afford to play this wonderful game, but I have lost playing partners do to tighter budgets as a result of a struggling economy, these are country club members that have shelved the game do to high cost. What about the young people getting started in a career or "Joe main street" with a family and fewer work hours in the week to support them? All this on top of 5-1/2 hour rounds! Our beloved game is struggling on many levels and the cost of the latest & greatest do everything driver is just a drop in the bucket.[/size]


[/quote]

That's a great post! Well said.

[hef63303]

Clubs that are this good have never been cheaper. Titanium drivers in the early 90's sold for $500 or more and were way inferior to today's product. Big Bertha irons sold for $1200 for steel heads and graphite shafts. In the past, if you wanted a bargain, you have to buy a second tier brand or a house brand. Today, you can buy major name brand drivers at less than $200. Golf has never been more affordable.

[rufus mangler]

I went from playing twice a week, two years ago, to playing twice a month now. All my equipment is used or really old. You know what happened when I stopped buying equipment and played less?

I had money to buy a $4 loaf of bread.



Golf hasn't become more expensive. Everything else has!

[glfpunk]

<BR>[quote]That's a great post! Well said. <BR><BR>[/quote]It was a very well written post. Just completely incorrect.

[Obsessotron]

[quote name='Grizzly3000' timestamp='1300980066' post='3083928']
I still have the original reciept from the irons I bought in 2002 and the cost is exactly the same for the irons I'm looking at buying this year. To me the price of green fee's are what have become excesive. In the last 3 years the cost of local green fee's have gone up 10% every year and to me the courses have gone down in condition and what you get for your $$. The course's in my area want $2400 for an annual membership. I'd have to play 40+ rounds to even make it worth while to me it's like buying a drink for a dollar and 12 for $15. Absurd.
[/quote]

Well if your avatar is any indication of where you live, I agree 100% the green fees in Alberta are absolutely criminal

[bananapel]

[quote name='Grizzly3000' timestamp='1300980066' post='3083928']
I still have the original reciept from the irons I bought in 2002 and the cost is exactly the same for the irons I'm looking at buying this year. To me the price of green fee's are what have become excesive. In the last 3 years the cost of local green fee's have gone up 10% every year and to me the courses have gone down in condition and what you get for your $$.
[/quote]


Same here. Even the county courses have gone up that number too. Kind of ridiculous.

[Grizzly3000]

[quote name='bananapel' timestamp='1301065502' post='3087113']
[quote name='Grizzly3000' timestamp='1300980066' post='3083928']
I still have the original reciept from the irons I bought in 2002 and the cost is exactly the same for the irons I'm looking at buying this year. To me the price of green fee's are what have become excesive. In the last 3 years the cost of local green fee's have gone up 10% every year and to me the courses have gone down in condition and what you get for your $$.
[/quote]


Same here. Even the county courses have gone up that number too. Kind of ridiculous.


[/quote]

Okay atleast i'm not the only one that has a problem with this. It seems like every course in Alberta just assumes that you'll lye down and take it. The lowest price any where is about $65. With out range, with out cart and the only thing the all seem to have in common is a 6 hr round.

[JP101]

[quote name='jimjc' timestamp='1300972280' post='3083596']
Does anyone believe the price of clubs needs to stay at these silly inflated prices any longer.........Average price of a entry set of irons from the top Mfg`s is $699 and up.....These are made in China by people earning $0.50 an hour with the heads made for about $8......Many people I know that purchased a new set of irons every 2 years...not only arn`t buying every 2 years they`re buying used now.....I myself am going to sell everything I have and go back to 2 sets of clubs....and forget about anything new.....[b].As far as I`m concerned there needs to be a end of these massive profits....big dollars spent on Tour player endorsement deals....and mega salaries for upper management.....so called R&D when they just keep putting a new face on old tech....Maybe they don`t get[/b] ....it`s a hole new game out there....[ pun not intended] Jim
[/quote]

I love posts like these. Claiming companies are making too much money and people's salaries should be slashed because YOU feel they are out of control. If you think there too expensive, then don't buy them, pretty simple. Maybe the companies should sell you there clubs at cost, and make zero profit, why would they need to make money? They should lay off multiple people and slash "upper managements" salaries to lower the price of golf clubs because you feel there too expensive.

If they are actually too expensive, then people won't buy them.

[jabrch]

There are plenty of lower cost options to buying new, high end equpment. There is the secondary market, there is the option to buy last year's equipment, and there is the option to buy other than the top name brands. Golf can be as expensive as one wants it to be...it can also be significantly less costly. That said, it will never be as inexpensive as Basketball can be....

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='jimjc' timestamp='1300972280' post='3083596']
Does anyone believe the price of clubs needs to stay at these silly inflated prices any longer.........Average price of a entry set of irons from the top Mfg`s is $699 and up.....These are made in China by people earning $0.50 an hour with the heads made for about $8......Many people I know that purchased a new set of irons every 2 years...not only arn`t buying every 2 years they`re buying used now.....I myself am going to sell everything I have and go back to 2 sets of clubs....and forget about anything new......As far as I`m concerned there needs to be a end of these massive profits....big dollars spent on Tour player endorsement deals....and mega salaries for upper management.....so called R&D when they just keep putting a new face on old tech....Maybe they don`t get ....it`s a hole new game out there....[ pun not intended] Jim
[/quote]


The problems you complain about are caused by a lack of self-control by golfers. We all think "I can buy a golf game" and OEMs are merely reacting to the hype and the demand.

Stop buying and the OEMs will react. They can't control your wallet and what you spend....but you can. Economics 101.


There are no "massive profits" in the golf industry for equipment. And of the things that make money for a shop - the most profit is in clothes.

[BrianOravetz]

Credibility typically goes right out there door when someone says that "x company" is making "too much profit", and that the people who work for said company's make "too much" money. Wow... the arrogance in that alone is staggering. Then heap the comments about why things should be cheaper so that you can have them is simply silly when heaped on top of the original statements.

That said, obviously, there are enough people paying those crazy prices because they're apparently not having trouble moving the gear at those prices.

I'm fairly new to the game, and while $800 for a set of irons, to me, seems like a lot of money; I also know that I'll use those clubs for years to come, and I'll get my money's worth. So for a quality product that I'll likely never be too good for, count me in. Hell, my gym membership is $150 a month. And I can't go as as often as I like. I say that as a fitness buff. So $800 for the gear to play a sport that brings enjoyment seems like a pretty good thing.

Is it that you do not like the price, or is a "want it now", delayed gratification be damned type thing?

The "invisible hand" of the market is the best regulator of these things. Just don't buy it if you don't like the price. There will be many like you, and at some point, the company's will get the point and the prices will reflect accordingly.

[Pr3cision]

[quote name='swbyps' timestamp='1300972678' post='3083602']
This one should be interesting. I agree with you. Golf and everything about it is too expensive.
[/quote]
AKA: [b]Everything is about money.[/b]

[JP101]

[quote name='BrianOravetz' timestamp='1301081612' post='3087968']
[b]Credibility typically goes right out there door when someone says that "x company" is making "too much profit", and that the people who work for said company's make "too much" money. Wow... the arrogance in that alone is staggering. Then heap the comments about why things should be cheaper so that you can have them is simply silly when heaped on top of the original statements. [/b]

That said, obviously, there are enough people paying those crazy prices because they're apparently not having trouble moving the gear at those prices.

I'm fairly new to the game, and while $800 for a set of irons, to me, seems like a lot of money; I also know that I'll use those clubs for years to come, and I'll get my money's worth. So for a quality product that I'll likely never be too good for, count me in. Hell, my gym membership is $150 a month. And I can't go as as often as I like. I say that as a fitness buff. So $800 for the gear to play a sport that brings enjoyment seems like a pretty good thing.

Is it that you do not like the price, or is a "want it now", delayed gratification be damned type thing?

The "invisible hand" of the market is the best regulator of these things. Just don't buy it if you don't like the price. There will be many like you, and at some point, the company's will get the point and the prices will reflect accordingly.
[/quote]


Couldn't agree more. Newsflash: Companies are in business to make money!!

[enduro]

[quote name='Grizzly3000' timestamp='1301066181' post='3087151']
[quote name='bananapel' timestamp='1301065502' post='3087113']
[quote name='Grizzly3000' timestamp='1300980066' post='3083928']
I still have the original reciept from the irons I bought in 2002 and the cost is exactly the same for the irons I'm looking at buying this year. To me the price of green fee's are what have become excesive. In the last 3 years the cost of local green fee's have gone up 10% every year and to me the courses have gone down in condition and what you get for your $.
[/quote]


Same here. Even the county courses have gone up that number too. Kind of ridiculous.


[/quote]

Okay atleast i'm not the only one that has a problem with this. It seems like every course in Alberta just assumes that you'll lye down and take it. The lowest price any where is about $65. With out range, with out cart and the only thing the all seem to have in common is a 6 hr round.
[/quote]


Yeah, Calgary has to be one of the worst places for golfing I've ever lived. OTOH used clubs in Calgary can be found for so cheap its ridiculous. There's something wrong though when you can buy a top of the line driver for cheaper than a round of golf costs. New club costs have pretty much remained the same in the last ten years while green fees and memberships have doubled or even tripled in the same time frame

[CassinoNorth]

Gotta look at it this way.

 

 

The price your paying isn't going directly into the pockets of the OEM's CEO. That profit has to be equally divided between player contracts (90% of the reason you play the clubs), R&D, marketing, reps, etc etc.

 

 

The money they make off irons isn't nearly as bad as lets say....balls or clothes

[BrianOravetz]

Ultimately, who cares where the revenue goes for whatever item(s) you're purchasing. If you do not like the price, or the company, represent by walking away and guying something that you do find equitable value in.

One of the beautiful things about a free society is the ability to contract freely with whomever you choose. Those who are not seen as favorable, by lack of commerce; are by default weighed, judged, and found wanting. They leave the market.

Manipulation of market forces by emotional machinations of accusation of "evil" profit is simply insanity, and never works.

Don't like the price or the manufacturer, don't buy it. Pretty simple.

[statmagic]

The interesting thing is scores aren't getting any better. See data below the National Golf Foundation (found here: [u][url="http://secure.ngf.org/cgi/faqa.asp#5"]http://secure.ngf.org/cgi/faqa.asp#5[/url][/u]). I play quite a bit (100+ rounds per year) and I must be playing with the 3 out of four people who can't break 90 almost every time.

I can't remember the last time I played with someone who even got close to breaking 80.

I think even the NGF's stats below might be overstated as the majority of the time the people I play with don't "play it down, putt it out". I see people more often than not turn in scores when they improved their lies, took gimmies, don't know the rules etc. In my opinion, that 1 in 4 who break 90 would probably be more like 1 in 10.

If you don't play the ball down or putt everything out you may as well just tear up your scorecard right then and there because it is meaningless.

My apologies for the hijack.
[i]
[/i]
[i]How do golfers score on an 18-hole regulation golf course?[/i]
[i]
[/i]
[i]Nearly half shoot 100 or more, and only about one in four can break 90 consistently:[/i]
[b]
[/b]
[b]Average score[/b] [b]Percent of adult golfers[/b]
Under 80 5%
80-89 21%
90-99 29%
100-109 24%
110-119 10%
120+ 11%
Total 100%

[mozgolf]

The one that irks me the most is wedges. They wear out the fastest and given the jacked loft on irons you normally need 3 at a time.

I can buy a full set of irons including two decent hybrids (a7) for $400-500, and some/ any maintstream OEM wedges to go with them are about $300 at average retail of $100 each. They start new at about $115, maybe drop to $100 and eventually as low as perhaps $80, whereas many drivers start at $300-350 and are at just over $100 in 6 months/ year.

Three cast wedges, with a design that stays in the market place longer than any other club for 1/2 to 3/4 the cost of a set of irons. Makes no sense to me. Perhaps thats why I am on my third iteration of the Adams Watson wedges at $99 for a set of three

[Nike Markiie]

[quote name='johnnythunders' timestamp='1300977081' post='3083775']
Golf is cheap coming from collectng vintage guitars and amps which sound better than the new crap out. Reverse in golf, new stuff is usually better. But just wait 6-18 months and you can get good technology at very resonable prices. I have around $4,000 in all of my golf clubs including 3 sets of irons, 4 drivers and 9 putters. I had that in 1 guitar so once I got back into golf a couple of years ago it was cheap.
[/quote]

I'm coming from the car world. Night and Day price difference. Golf is much, much, much, less expensive.


I totally understand that it is pretty expensive for the starters. That's for sure.

[larrybud]

[quote name='jimjc' timestamp='1300972280' post='3083596']
Does anyone believe the price of clubs needs to stay at these silly inflated prices any longer.........Average price of a entry set of irons from the top Mfg`s is $699 and up.....These are made in China by people earning $0.50 an hour with the heads made for about $8......Many people I know that purchased a new set of irons every 2 years...not only arn`t buying every 2 years they`re buying used now.....I myself am going to sell everything I have and go back to 2 sets of clubs....and forget about anything new......As far as I`m concerned there needs to be a end of these massive profits....big dollars spent on Tour player endorsement deals....and mega salaries for upper management.....so called R&D when they just keep putting a new face on old tech....Maybe they don`t get ....it`s a hole new game out there....[ pun not intended] Jim
[/quote]

I never understood arguments like yours. Don't buy them and the price will fall. Nobody is forcing you. If you're a manufacturer you should be able to [i]try [/i]to sell anything at whatever price you want. It's up to the buyers to choose to buy them or not.

[puttingmatt]

It is just money , Thou want.... Thou pays !!!
Never going to change !!!

[cardia10]

I agree with the wedge observation. A cast Vokey head costs between 2-3.50 to produce. A shaft is another 3. A grip is .50-.75. Assembly labor may be .50-1.00. Titleist may have 12-15 dollars in a $120 wedge. Of course they will say that money goes to RD and marketing. Seems kind of sad that TItleist is still going under with those profit margins. Guess they're wasting too much on RD (borrowing from Scratch seems to be their only RD of late).

[Solutions Etcetera]

[quote name='cardia10' timestamp='1303079818' post='3162544']they will say that money goes to RD and marketing[/quote]
And shipping, customs, other logistics, dealer margin, customer service, warranty repairs, dealer reps… and these are just the costs I know about.

Trust me, the 9-10x margin you are inferring just does not exist anywhere in the golf industry.

[Grizzly3000]

Calgary is really good for equipment. I find even in the store all of the people are really well educated and nice. And you can almost find deals every week. Seeing some of the prices for this year once again makes me want to my business else where. Possible Edmonton or the US.

[quote name='enduro' timestamp='1301109668' post='3089239']
[quote name='Grizzly3000' timestamp='1301066181' post='3087151']
[quote name='bananapel' timestamp='1301065502' post='3087113']
[quote name='Grizzly3000' timestamp='1300980066' post='3083928']
I still have the original reciept from the irons I bought in 2002 and the cost is exactly the same for the irons I'm looking at buying this year. To me the price of green fee's are what have become excesive. In the last 3 years the cost of local green fee's have gone up 10% every year and to me the courses have gone down in condition and what you get for your $.
[/quote]


Same here. Even the county courses have gone up that number too. Kind of ridiculous.


[/quote]

Okay atleast i'm not the only one that has a problem with this. It seems like every course in Alberta just assumes that you'll lye down and take it. The lowest price any where is about $65. With out range, with out cart and the only thing the all seem to have in common is a 6 hr round.
[/quote]


Yeah, Calgary has to be one of the worst places for golfing I've ever lived. OTOH used clubs in Calgary can be found for so cheap its ridiculous. There's something wrong though when you can buy a top of the line driver for cheaper than a round of golf costs. New club costs have pretty much remained the same in the last ten years while green fees and memberships have doubled or even tripled in the same time frame
[/quote]

[hef63303]

[quote name='cardia10' timestamp='1303079818' post='3162544']
I agree with the wedge observation. A cast Vokey head costs between 2-3.50 to produce. A shaft is another 3. A grip is .50-.75. Assembly labor may be .50-1.00. Titleist may have 12-15 dollars in a $120 wedge. Of course they will say that money goes to RD and marketing. Seems kind of sad that TItleist is still going under with those profit margins. Guess they're wasting too much on RD (borrowing from Scratch seems to be their only RD of late).
[/quote]
You are way off on the cost of the components. Throw in paying every golf pro $10k to $50k to play the wedges(and before you say it, yes, they do and so does everyone else). Plus Titleist does not get $120, the retailer gets $120. Titleist gets something less than that. Then add in the R and D, the marketing, the fees to Vokey for using his name, etc. Remember, the cost of the print ads and TV ads are the same for wedges(where you sell one club) as it is for irons(where you sell 7 or 8) No one is getting rich in the golf business. No one.

Wedges are more per club than iron sets because you are buying them one at a time instead of 7 or 8 at at time. Irons are the least profitable product that golf club companies make from a percentage standpoint but the largest dollar profit per sale.

[gioreeko]

Maybe try to learn to make your own. (from components) If you really love to golf, there is a sense of satisfaction one can get from playing with clubs that you assembled and tweaked yourself. There are some really good component manufacturers out there, like Wishon, Golfsmith, and Maltby to name a few.