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Acushnet bought by fila-korea


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[quote name='elwhippy' timestamp='1300128156' post='3054509']
I seriously hope a non Golf company gets hold of Acushnet. They need to retain their individuality.
[/quote]

I think that is what will happen. The only reason I could see TMaG or Nike purchasing a competitor would be for intellectual property to grow their brand and eliminate competition for a larger market share. $1 bil is too much for any golf company to invest for that. Also keep in mind that there has never been an acquisition of one golf company by another of this size before. The biggest was Achusnet's acquisition of Cobra back in 1997 which I believe was around $700 mil.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Kind of got a "peek" at the first pass of finalists. Can't say much for obvious reasons, but suffice to say Nike/TMAG or any other golf company is on the list for now, but its a longshot, a very longshot they buy Acushnet. FO is firmly committed to a June deal; the shareholders are expecting it. No way can one golf company swallow one as big as Acushnet without huge anti-trust scrutiny and that means a lot of delay. The deal needs to be done relatively quick which means a low-key non controversial buyer willing to pay $1B+ cash and not do anything wreckless to the company, as in flip it in two years. As for the silly rumors of Scotty/Vokey going elsewhere, it is way too early for that to happen, too early to even be shopping. Those guys are not hurting for money and will always have plenty of opportunities in front of them, so what's the rush?

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I wish Bridgestone would get into the mix, I mean they have the resources to eat nike and crap TMAG. They already have a huge following in Asia with Tourstage and even though B-stone has awsome equipment here they are still a little unknow, scooping up Acushent would be a great way to make headway in the US market, it that is what they want to do.

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[quote name='Par Fore' timestamp='1300845219' post='3079360']
I wish Bridgestone would get into the mix, I mean they have the resources to eat nike and crap TMAG. They already have a huge following in Asia with Tourstage and even though B-stone has awsome equipment here they are still a little unknow, scooping up Acushent would be a great way to make headway in the US market, it that is what they want to do.
[/quote]

Not going to happen. The number of ball patents they would own combining their own and Acushnet's would trigger the anti-trust alarm - game over.

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[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300845525' post='3079378']
[quote name='Par Fore' timestamp='1300845219' post='3079360']
I wish Bridgestone would get into the mix, I mean they have the resources to eat nike and crap TMAG. They already have a huge following in Asia with Tourstage and even though B-stone has awsome equipment here they are still a little unknow, scooping up Acushent would be a great way to make headway in the US market, it that is what they want to do.
[/quote]

Not going to happen. The number of ball patents they would own combining their own and Acushnet's would trigger the anti-trust alarm - game over.
[/quote]

I like the idea but agree it's not likely. CasualLie, how did Callaway get around this when they
bought Topflite? A lot of patents there but a lot less in sales compared to a Bridgestone/Titleist
marriage. Would that be the difference?

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[quote name='linkslad' timestamp='1300846485' post='3079438']
[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300845525' post='3079378']
[quote name='Par Fore' timestamp='1300845219' post='3079360']
I wish Bridgestone would get into the mix, I mean they have the resources to eat nike and crap TMAG. They already have a huge following in Asia with Tourstage and even though B-stone has awsome equipment here they are still a little unknow, scooping up Acushent would be a great way to make headway in the US market, it that is what they want to do.
[/quote]

Not going to happen. The number of ball patents they would own combining their own and Acushnet's would trigger the anti-trust alarm - game over.
[/quote]

I like the idea but agree it's not likely. CasualLie, how did Callaway get around this when they
bought Topflite? A lot of patents there but a lot less in sales compared to a Bridgestone/Titleist
marriage. Would that be the difference?
[/quote]

Callaway had no ball patents at the time and Spaulding Golf was in bankruptcy. Same with TMaG's purchase of Maxfli. The government generally doesn't have a problem with a big company buying a struggling company that is on the verge of closing.

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I think the anti trust arguments went away in the 80s. If someone wants to do the deal, they will find a way to do it.

Despite the name of this forum, one has to be objective and look at the financial performance - and potential. Market share and brand equity are important, don't get me wrong. But you can have the best brand out there and nowhere to go with it.

These guys don't really manufacture anything, so there is a limited cost reduction opportunity (as in cut more staff.) The golf equipment market is not exactly booming. These incremental equipment enhancements all meet the price ceilings: driver $400, irons $800-1,000, balls $45.

It will boil down to one of these strategies:
[list][*]brand affinity in the sporting goods business[*]brand awareness for adjacent market segments (apparel, i.e. Levis)[*]some foreign investor pining for US market share.[/list]
However it goes, it is safe to say the Titleist glory days are gone for good. I was part of a similar situation with a long time category leader in a $1B consumer market. Wound up acquired by a New Zealand investor. The business, and the brand - once an American namesake - are fading into obscurity...

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[quote name='designdog' timestamp='1300888743' post='3080455']
I think the anti trust arguments went away in the 80s. If someone wants to do the deal, they will find a way to do it.
[/quote]

If ATT buying T-Mobile this week does not trigger anti-trust issues, then anyone buying Titleist would not even be a blip on the FTC's radar. Over the last ten years there have been a ton of major mergers in just about every major economic segment from technology to telecommunications to banking.

I don't see the FTC taking a stand on golf balls.

/bd

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[quote name='bd8802' timestamp='1300889757' post='3080489']
[quote name='designdog' timestamp='1300888743' post='3080455']
I think the anti trust arguments went away in the 80s. If someone wants to do the deal, they will find a way to do it.
[/quote]

If ATT buying T-Mobile this week does not trigger anti-trust issues, then anyone buying Titleist would not even be a blip on the FTC's radar. Over the last ten years there have been a ton of major mergers in just about every major economic segment from technology to telecommunications to banking.

I don't see the FTC taking a stand on golf balls.

/bd
[/quote]

There are way too many companies that even if Nike or Addidas bought Acushnet it would be a non issue. Still Callaway, Cleveland/Srixon, Cobra, Nike/TM (Whoever didn't win), Bridgestone, etc.


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[quote name='bd8802' timestamp='1300889757' post='3080489']
[quote name='designdog' timestamp='1300888743' post='3080455']
I think the anti trust arguments went away in the 80s. If someone wants to do the deal, they will find a way to do it.
[/quote]

If ATT buying T-Mobile this week does not trigger anti-trust issues, then anyone buying Titleist would not even be a blip on the FTC's radar. Over the last ten years there have been a ton of major mergers in just about every major economic segment from technology to telecommunications to banking.

I don't see the FTC taking a stand on golf balls.

/bd

[/quote]

Exactly!

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I think you guys are missing the point. Mergers/buyouts need regulatory approval. You think the ATT - T-Mobile deal is going to close tomorrow? The regulatory approvals take a long time. It took Comcast over a year to get the NBC deal blessed. And that's the point. At a minimum a golf company with significant market share and/or patents trying to buy Acushnet will get the attention of DOJ/FTC and that will kick off a months long process, not days long. And if a competitor complains, that's more delay. This goes against FO's stated commitment to investors to sell Acushnet by June this year, not June next year.

As for those capping on Titleist as a has been brand, that's crazy talk. Acushnet still made money in a down economy, a lot of money, arguably the most profitable golf company in the world. It's not a high growth potential purchase, nothing is in golf. What's Srixon doing with Cleveland? A joke. And next year we'll be laughing at Puma's mangling of Cobra. But Acushnet is a trophy, and a money maker. In the right hands there is no reason not to expect your $1B purchase gets you a 12%+ return. Not bad, not dot com glory, but safe, and not a bad return at all.

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[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300901193' post='3081027']
I think you guys are missing the point. Mergers/buyouts need regulatory approval. You think the ATT - T-Mobile deal is going to close tomorrow? The regulatory approvals take a long time. It took Comcast over a year to get the NBC deal blessed. And that's the point. At a minimum a golf company with significant market share and/or patents trying to buy Acushnet will get the attention of DOJ/FTC and that will kick off a months long process, not days long. And if a competitor complains, that's more delay. This goes against FO's stated commitment to investors to sell Acushnet by June this year, not June next year.

As for those capping on Titleist as a has been brand, that's crazy talk. Acushnet still made money in a down economy, a lot of money, arguably the most profitable golf company in the world. It's not a high growth potential purchase, nothing is in golf. What's Srixon doing with Cleveland? A joke. And next year we'll be laughing at Puma's mangling of Cobra. But Acushnet is a trophy, and a money maker. In the right hands there is no reason not to expect your $1B purchase gets you a 12%+ return. Not bad, not dot com glory, but safe, and not a bad return at all.
[/quote]


Your kidding right? There would be no anti-trust issues here. There are literally 4 wireless providers in the US and the ATT-T-Mobile deal will go thru eventually making it three. Microsoft went thru the same....they escaped almost scott free....Exxon bought Mobile....approved....Your talking about a company with a market value in the $1.5 billion range....the gov't wouldn't blink an eye. Look at how many golf equipment companies exist. The barriers of entry to the golf world are nill. But getting into the mobile space is costly and difficult since there is limited spectrum. You also need to look at Acushnet financials....they are not getting a 12% return....it's been declining.

Remember...it's not illegal to be a monopoly....only illegal to use monopolistic powers illegally.

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[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1300907082' post='3081380']
[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300901193' post='3081027']
I think you guys are missing the point. Mergers/buyouts need regulatory approval. You think the ATT - T-Mobile deal is going to close tomorrow? The regulatory approvals take a long time. It took Comcast over a year to get the NBC deal blessed. And that's the point. At a minimum a golf company with significant market share and/or patents trying to buy Acushnet will get the attention of DOJ/FTC and that will kick off a months long process, not days long. And if a competitor complains, that's more delay. This goes against FO's stated commitment to investors to sell Acushnet by June this year, not June next year.

As for those capping on Titleist as a has been brand, that's crazy talk. Acushnet still made money in a down economy, a lot of money, arguably the most profitable golf company in the world. It's not a high growth potential purchase, nothing is in golf. What's Srixon doing with Cleveland? A joke. And next year we'll be laughing at Puma's mangling of Cobra. But Acushnet is a trophy, and a money maker. In the right hands there is no reason not to expect your $1B purchase gets you a 12%+ return. Not bad, not dot com glory, but safe, and not a bad return at all.
[/quote]


Your kidding right? There would be no anti-trust issues here. There are literally 4 wireless providers in the US and the ATT-T-Mobile deal will go thru eventually making it three. Microsoft went thru the same....they escaped almost scott free....Exxon bought Mobile....approved....Your talking about a company with a market value in the $1.5 billion range....the gov't wouldn't blink an eye. Look at how many golf equipment companies exist. The barriers of entry to the golf world are nill. But getting into the mobile space is costly and difficult since there is limited spectrum. You also need to look at Acushnet financials....they are not getting a 12% return....it's been declining.

Remember...it's not illegal to be a monopoly....only illegal to use monopolistic powers illegally.
[/quote]

Bingo, all this talk of anti-trust is BS the government won't care about Titleist being bought out by Nike or TMag.

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[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1300907082' post='3081380']
Your kidding right? There would be no anti-trust issues here. There are literally 4 wireless providers in the US and the ATT-T-Mobile deal will go thru eventually making it three. Microsoft went thru the same....they escaped almost scott free....Exxon bought Mobile....approved....Your talking about a company with a market value in the $1.5 billion range....the gov't wouldn't blink an eye. Look at how many golf equipment companies exist. The barriers of entry to the golf world are nill. But getting into the mobile space is costly and difficult since there is limited spectrum. You also need to look at Acushnet financials....they are not getting a 12% return....it's been declining.

Remember...it's not illegal to be a monopoly....only illegal to use monopolistic powers illegally.
[/quote]

Agreed. Comcast purchasing NBC/Universal is another example. The FTC isn't going to focus as much on a luxury market in decline. Gas, cell phone service, and computer operating systems all have much higher consumer demand and less competition than the golf industry.

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[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1300911446' post='3081598']
I really think you will see a private equity firm win out on this. I don't think the ROI will be worth it for Nike, Callaway or TMAG for the unit as a whole as you'll get some cannibalization from merging the two companies.
[/quote]

Exactly. And with private equity it will be a quick sale. A point lost on some posters here, but what do I know? I only talked to someone at Morgan about it who danced around the issue as much as he could without risking unemployment. No one is worried about government approval, of course that would happen, eventually. It's the timing that matters the most. And how would a Nike/TMag/Cally rationalize purchasing a company that just went through their own long-term painful experience of overpaying for Cobra? How did the $700M purchase price of Cobra work out for Acushnet?

Nike already has a long term golf strategy that does not include major acquisiitons.
Cally doesn't have $1B+ to spend on another company not to mention the shareholders would have a cow.
FO will not sell to TMAG, they don't have to, and they really are not interested. Maybe for $2B, money does still talk, but that offer is never going to happen.

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[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300912827' post='3081664']
[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1300911446' post='3081598']
I really think you will see a private equity firm win out on this. I don't think the ROI will be worth it for Nike, Callaway or TMAG for the unit as a whole as you'll get some cannibalization from merging the two companies.
[/quote]

Exactly. And with private equity it will be a quick sale. A point lost on some posters here, but what do I know? I only talked to someone at Morgan about it who danced around the issue as much as he could without risking unemployment. No one is worried about government approval, of course that would happen, eventually. It's the timing that matters the most. And how would a Nike/TMag/Cally rationalize purchasing a company that just went through their own long-term painful experience of overpaying for Cobra? How did the $700M purchase price of Cobra work out for Acushnet?

Nike already has a long term golf strategy that does not include major acquisiitons.
Cally doesn't have $1B+ to spend on another company not to mention the shareholders would have a cow.
FO will not sell to TMAG, they don't have to, and they really are not interested. Maybe for $2B, money does still talk, but that offer is never going to happen.
[/quote]


if you look at the financials...you will see that they made an operatong profit of $11.3 million on the sale of Cobra. Research before you make assumptions.

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[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1300913355' post='3081697']
[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300912827' post='3081664']
[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1300911446' post='3081598']
I really think you will see a private equity firm win out on this. I don't think the ROI will be worth it for Nike, Callaway or TMAG for the unit as a whole as you'll get some cannibalization from merging the two companies.
[/quote]

Exactly. And with private equity it will be a quick sale. A point lost on some posters here, but what do I know? I only talked to someone at Morgan about it who danced around the issue as much as he could without risking unemployment. No one is worried about government approval, of course that would happen, eventually. It's the timing that matters the most. And how would a Nike/TMag/Cally rationalize purchasing a company that just went through their own long-term painful experience of overpaying for Cobra? How did the $700M purchase price of Cobra work out for Acushnet?

Nike already has a long term golf strategy that does not include major acquisiitons.
Cally doesn't have $1B+ to spend on another company not to mention the shareholders would have a cow.
FO will not sell to TMAG, they don't have to, and they really are not interested. Maybe for $2B, money does still talk, but that offer is never going to happen.
[/quote]


if you look at the financials...you will see that they made an operatong profit of $11.3 million on the sale of Cobra. Research before you make assumptions.
[/quote]

Who cares what the financials say. No assumptions here, just facts. Purchase price of Cobra was $715M in 1996, 14 years later sold for $120M. That's brilliant. Did FO grind out $40M in profit out of Cobra a year to break even??? Check the financials on that. Any FO/Acushnet executive will tell you off the record buying Cobra wasn't their best move. Selling it was a good move though.

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[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300915176' post='3081796']
[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1300913355' post='3081697']
[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300912827' post='3081664']
[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1300911446' post='3081598']
I really think you will see a private equity firm win out on this. I don't think the ROI will be worth it for Nike, Callaway or TMAG for the unit as a whole as you'll get some cannibalization from merging the two companies.
[/quote]

Exactly. And with private equity it will be a quick sale. A point lost on some posters here, but what do I know? I only talked to someone at Morgan about it who danced around the issue as much as he could without risking unemployment. No one is worried about government approval, of course that would happen, eventually. It's the timing that matters the most. And how would a Nike/TMag/Cally rationalize purchasing a company that just went through their own long-term painful experience of overpaying for Cobra? How did the $700M purchase price of Cobra work out for Acushnet?

Nike already has a long term golf strategy that does not include major acquisiitons.
Cally doesn't have $1B+ to spend on another company not to mention the shareholders would have a cow.
FO will not sell to TMAG, they don't have to, and they really are not interested. Maybe for $2B, money does still talk, but that offer is never going to happen.
[/quote]


if you look at the financials...you will see that they made an operatong profit of $11.3 million on the sale of Cobra. Research before you make assumptions.
[/quote]

Who cares what the financials say. No assumptions here, just facts. Purchase price of Cobra was $715M in 1996, 14 years later sold for $120M. That's brilliant. Did FO grind out $40M in profit out of Cobra a year to break even??? Check the financials on that. Any FO/Acushnet executive will tell you off the record buying Cobra wasn't their best move. Selling it was a good move though.
[/quote]


I guess they lied to the sec in their 10k

[size="2"]Operating income increased $63.7 million to $88.7 million due to lower restructuring and other charges ($32.4 million), favorable foreign exchange rates (approximately $20 million), [b]and a pre-tax gain on the sale of the Cobra golf product line of $11.3 million.[/b] [/size]

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[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1300915432' post='3081810']
[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300915176' post='3081796']
[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1300913355' post='3081697']
[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300912827' post='3081664']
[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1300911446' post='3081598']
I really think you will see a private equity firm win out on this. I don't think the ROI will be worth it for Nike, Callaway or TMAG for the unit as a whole as you'll get some cannibalization from merging the two companies.
[/quote]

Exactly. And with private equity it will be a quick sale. A point lost on some posters here, but what do I know? I only talked to someone at Morgan about it who danced around the issue as much as he could without risking unemployment. No one is worried about government approval, of course that would happen, eventually. It's the timing that matters the most. And how would a Nike/TMag/Cally rationalize purchasing a company that just went through their own long-term painful experience of overpaying for Cobra? How did the $700M purchase price of Cobra work out for Acushnet?

Nike already has a long term golf strategy that does not include major acquisiitons.
Cally doesn't have $1B+ to spend on another company not to mention the shareholders would have a cow.
FO will not sell to TMAG, they don't have to, and they really are not interested. Maybe for $2B, money does still talk, but that offer is never going to happen.
[/quote]


if you look at the financials...you will see that they made an operatong profit of $11.3 million on the sale of Cobra. Research before you make assumptions.
[/quote]

Who cares what the financials say. No assumptions here, just facts. Purchase price of Cobra was $715M in 1996, 14 years later sold for $120M. That's brilliant. Did FO grind out $40M in profit out of Cobra a year to break even??? Check the financials on that. Any FO/Acushnet executive will tell you off the record buying Cobra wasn't their best move. Selling it was a good move though.
[/quote]


I guess they lied to the sec in their 10k

[size="2"]Operating income increased $63.7 million to $88.7 million due to lower restructuring and other charges ($32.4 million), favorable foreign exchange rates (approximately $20 million), [b]and a pre-tax gain on the sale of the Cobra golf product line of $11.3 million.[/b] [/size]
[/quote]

Of course they didn't lie, it's called a write-down. As in hey investors, we f'd up and totally overpaid for some acquisitions, but we're going to call it a change in accounting procedures resulting in a $1.1 Billion in 1999. So of course 11 years later it looks like Cobra was sold with a pre-tax gain. Try that trick on your 1040 this year and see how the IRS likes it.

I did give FO a little too much credit. They sold Cobra for $89M not $120M. But hey, I'm not complaining, I bought FO at $35 based on the old idea when the economy sucks, people get drunk. I'm glad to see FO get out of the golf business.

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[quote name='daydreamer' timestamp='1300906119' post='3081330']
just a hunch (a stretch really), Cleveland Golf will win out. Merging similar sized companies and like brand sensibilities.
[/quote]


Actually, SRI has the best chance of any golf company. It's a weird fit given the direction Cleveland has been going, but who's to say it's not possible this happens, and Cleveland takes a big backseat ???

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Nobody buys a company based upon financials with short term write downs, current gains, and "restructuring." They buy for solid ROIC over the long term, dominant brand position, and/or some kind of regional (as in country) entry.

Nobody with money to invest in this economy is going to invest in Acushnet. That is why they are being spun off. This will either be an emotional deal, or an IPO.

That said, for some reason, a stray thought has just entered my mind about the potential affinity with Titleist and a sports beverage (Gatorade) brand. Nah...

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[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300919580' post='3082042']
[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1300915432' post='3081810']
[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300915176' post='3081796']
[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1300913355' post='3081697']
[quote name='CasualLie' timestamp='1300912827' post='3081664']
[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1300911446' post='3081598']
I really think you will see a private equity firm win out on this. I don't think the ROI will be worth it for Nike, Callaway or TMAG for the unit as a whole as you'll get some cannibalization from merging the two companies.
[/quote]

Exactly. And with private equity it will be a quick sale. A point lost on some posters here, but what do I know? I only talked to someone at Morgan about it who danced around the issue as much as he could without risking unemployment. No one is worried about government approval, of course that would happen, eventually. It's the timing that matters the most. And how would a Nike/TMag/Cally rationalize purchasing a company that just went through their own long-term painful experience of overpaying for Cobra? How did the $700M purchase price of Cobra work out for Acushnet?

Nike already has a long term golf strategy that does not include major acquisiitons.
Cally doesn't have $1B+ to spend on another company not to mention the shareholders would have a cow.
FO will not sell to TMAG, they don't have to, and they really are not interested. Maybe for $2B, money does still talk, but that offer is never going to happen.
[/quote]


if you look at the financials...you will see that they made an operatong profit of $11.3 million on the sale of Cobra. Research before you make assumptions.
[/quote]

Who cares what the financials say. No assumptions here, just facts. Purchase price of Cobra was $715M in 1996, 14 years later sold for $120M. That's brilliant. Did FO grind out $40M in profit out of Cobra a year to break even??? Check the financials on that. Any FO/Acushnet executive will tell you off the record buying Cobra wasn't their best move. Selling it was a good move though.
[/quote]


I guess they lied to the sec in their 10k

[size="2"]Operating income increased $63.7 million to $88.7 million due to lower restructuring and other charges ($32.4 million), favorable foreign exchange rates (approximately $20 million), [b]and a pre-tax gain on the sale of the Cobra golf product line of $11.3 million.[/b] [/size]
[/quote]

Of course they didn't lie, it's called a write-down. As in hey investors, we f'd up and totally overpaid for some acquisitions, but we're going to call it a change in accounting procedures resulting in a $1.1 Billion in 1999. So of course 11 years later it looks like Cobra was sold with a pre-tax gain. Try that trick on your 1040 this year and see how the IRS likes it.

I did give FO a little too much credit. They sold Cobra for $89M not $120M. But hey, I'm not complaining, I bought FO at $35 based on the old idea when the economy sucks, people get drunk. I'm glad to see FO get out of the golf business.
[/quote]


anytime you purchase another company you write down "goodwill" ....goodwill is the amount you pay over the fair market value of the acquistion.. you don't take write down's for the heck of it...plus it's a non-cash charge......you can't just make up some random number and call it a write down. If you look at Fortune Brands income and balance sheet you will see thaey have recorded a large amount of good will write downs since they have acquired a number of companies over the past 15-20 years which have licensing agreements or patents which are required to be written down. And how would the IRS like it if I did it? Actually you can! If you have a home office for work purposes only....you are allowed to depreciate that portion of your home yearly resulting in a reduced tax liability. Non-cash charge resulting in lower taxes!! yipee! You will just have to reduce your cost basis when you sell.

Anyhow....back to original post...the FTC could care less who buys Acushnet.....I think they have bigger fish to fry than golf equipment.

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Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use.  
Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 5-G
Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG3 56* TW grind.  Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS.  
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell
ProV1x-mostly
 

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    • 2025 3M Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
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