New and Improved Shaft Chart

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='da_boys' timestamp='1338927727' post='5036276']
I'd be interested about the FCM in the Ping AWT as well.
[/quote]


I cant help you with any other brands than whats under True Temper Sports (True Temper, Rifle ,Project X, Grafalloy, PX Graphite)
- The chart earlier in this post also contains KBS, but thats because KBS is generous enough to share them, so i only had to change all values by 1 to get comparable numbers vs Swing weight (D2 for KBS vs D3 in the Rifle FCM system)

[Aragolf]

Such a great thread and so full of valuable information. Howard not sure if you can offer me any guidance here, i'm 6"6 and currently play DGX100's at three quarters of an inch over standard length. I have hit the Ctapers and loved the feel so i'm making the switch and putting them in my 712 MB's i'm just torn as to whether or not i play a set of S+, X or X SS to come out around the same flex as my DGX100's because i know that the overlength aspect affects each shaft differently essentially making one softer and one stiffer!! I'd like them to CPM to around 6.9 or 7.0 in the end. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Bullroarer Took]

Howard, Can you please relate the Project X [i]graphite[/i] iron shaft to the standard Px or Px Flighted?

[andef]

Mr Jones,

would you be able to post the CPM number for a Project X Tour Issue 8C4 (6.0, 82g)?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='andef' timestamp='1339950392' post='5113530']
Mr Jones,

would you be able to post the CPM number for a Project X Tour Issue 8C4 (6.0, 82g)?
[/quote]

203 Cpm with a 2.5 inch clamp or 216 Cpm with a 5.0 clamp.
- both measured with a 285 gram drill chuck

TT info say CPM number is 251 Cpm with a 5.1 inch clamp and a 200 gram drill chuck
(i dont have that clamp lenght or that tip weight)

[andef]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1339951628' post='5113608']
[quote name='andef' timestamp='1339950392' post='5113530']
Mr Jones,

would you be able to post the CPM number for a Project X Tour Issue 8C4 (6.0, 82g)?
[/quote]

203 Cpm with a 2.5 inch clamp or 216 Cpm with a 5.0 clamp.
- both measured with a 285 gram drill chuck

TT info say CPM number is 251 Cpm with a 5.1 inch clamp and a 200 gram drill chuck
(i dont have that clamp lenght or that tip weight)
[/quote]

That plays very soft doesn't it? I'm curious as my driver shaft, a made for Titleist Matrix XCon 6 is 250 and I thought that made it play as a hard regular/soft stiff.
Thank you for the help and best of luck with the match tonight!

[stodge17]

When a shaft is "hard stepped" what exactly done to the shaft to hard step it?

[Howard_Jones]

Taper tip shafts is made 1 for each head, so you have both head and shafts with the same "number"
- If you move the shaft series "1 step" up or down, you hard or soft step them
Using a 5 iron shaft in a 4 iron head is hard stepping
Using a 4 iron shaft in a 5 iron head is soft stepping

If this is done on a set where the shafts already is cut to play length you will have to :
- When hard stepping - you need to add 0.5 inch by using butt extensions
- When soft stepping - you need to cut of 0.5 inch from the butt side.

All shafts within a set is made with different flex strength to handle head with different weight on different lengths, so when we move shafts like this we manipulate the flex in the play ready set. Hard stepping makes them about 1/3 flex class stronger, while soft stepping makes them about 1/3 flex class weaker. If you start on S flex and hard step, you end up with "S 1/3", and if you soft step you end up with "R 2/3"

Hard stepping will lower ball curve, while soft stepping will raise it, but before we jump into it, consider whats happening with your short irons.
If the shaft set is Dynamic Gold, the shortest and stiffest shaft is the #9 iron shaft (PW uses a #9 shaft)
- When hard stepping, also your #8 iron will use the #9 iron shaft, and that makes both the #9 and PW to play SOFTER withing the set.
- When soft stepping, the shortest shaft the #9 iron shaft will be used for your PW, and thats makes CPM /flex progression to go "all the way" up to the shortest. Thats why hard stepping might lead you into problems with the shortest irons, while soft stepping never makes problems in the short irons.

[stodge17]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1340083753' post='5126458']
Taper tip shafts is made 1 for each head, so you have both head and shafts with the same "number"
- If you move the shaft series "1 step" up or down, you hard or soft step them
Using a 5 iron shaft in a 4 iron head is hard stepping
Using a 4 iron shaft in a 5 iron head is soft stepping

If this is done on a set where the shafts already is cut to play length you will have to :
- When hard stepping - you need to add 0.5 inch by using butt extensions
- When soft stepping - you need to cut of 0.5 inch from the butt side.

All shafts within a set is made with different flex strength to handle head with different weight on different lengths, so when we move shafts like this we manipulate the flex in the play ready set. Hard stepping makes them about 1/3 flex class stronger, while soft stepping makes them about 1/3 flex class weaker. If you start on S flex and hard step, you end up with "S 1/3", and if you soft step you end up with "R 2/3"

Hard stepping will lower ball curve, while soft stepping will raise it, but before we jump into it, consider whats happening with your short irons.
If the shaft set is Dynamic Gold, the shortest and stiffest shaft is the #9 iron shaft (PW uses a #9 shaft)
- When hard stepping, also your #8 iron will use the #9 iron shaft, and that makes both the #9 and PW to play SOFTER withing the set.
- When soft stepping, the shortest shaft the #9 iron shaft will be used for your PW, and thats makes CPM /flex progression to go "all the way" up to the shortest. Thats why hard stepping might lead you into problems with the shortest irons, while soft stepping never makes problems in the short irons.
[/quote]

So basically if I soft stepped Dynamic Gold Tour X7's instead of hard stepping Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100's I would run into fewer problems?

[Tony_Ireland]

Hi howard just curious where would you put the ctaper x 1/2 inch longer and soft stepped once in the frequency scale
Cheers
Playing these at them, about 96 5iron ss with heavy transition

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='stodge17' timestamp='1340249976' post='5139868']
[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1340083753' post='5126458']
Taper tip shafts is made 1 for each head, so you have both head and shafts with the same "number"
- If you move the shaft series "1 step" up or down, you hard or soft step them
Using a 5 iron shaft in a 4 iron head is hard stepping
Using a 4 iron shaft in a 5 iron head is soft stepping

If this is done on a set where the shafts already is cut to play length you will have to :
- When hard stepping - you need to add 0.5 inch by using butt extensions
- When soft stepping - you need to cut of 0.5 inch from the butt side.

All shafts within a set is made with different flex strength to handle head with different weight on different lengths, so when we move shafts like this we manipulate the flex in the play ready set. Hard stepping makes them about 1/3 flex class stronger, while soft stepping makes them about 1/3 flex class weaker. If you start on S flex and hard step, you end up with "S 1/3", and if you soft step you end up with "R 2/3"

Hard stepping will lower ball curve, while soft stepping will raise it, but before we jump into it, consider whats happening with your short irons.
If the shaft set is Dynamic Gold, the shortest and stiffest shaft is the #9 iron shaft (PW uses a #9 shaft)
- When hard stepping, also your #8 iron will use the #9 iron shaft, and that makes both the #9 and PW to play SOFTER withing the set.
- When soft stepping, the shortest shaft the #9 iron shaft will be used for your PW, and thats makes CPM /flex progression to go "all the way" up to the shortest. Thats why hard stepping might lead you into problems with the shortest irons, while soft stepping never makes problems in the short irons.
[/quote]

So basically if I soft stepped Dynamic Gold Tour X7's instead of hard stepping Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100's I would run into fewer problems?
[/quote]

How would i know ? im not familiar with you and your game, but X7 is more than 1 hole flex class stronger than X100
- I will post some numbers during this weekend to compare X7 to X100 trough out the set, because X7 goes from #2 up to SW, while X100 stops at the #9 iron, so in cases where flex progression is wanted all the way X7 is a better choice if you can handle that much of a shaft.

Try to PM @cqjeff on this board. He plays X7 and is familiar with both X100 and X7, so he can better tell you how much difference there is. im just an R flex player myself, so for me X7 is equal to "No flex" or as close as you can get.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Tony_Ireland' timestamp='1340328736' post='5145606']
Hi howard just curious where would you put the ctaper x 1/2 inch longer and soft stepped once in the frequency scale
Cheers
Playing these at them, about 96 5iron ss with heavy transition
[/quote]

like i said above, i cant help with other shaft than what comes out from the True Temper Company, so KBS, Nippon or Ping is not in my shop so i dont have any shafts to measure to help you with specs for those.

[bosoxfan]

So, is a PX 5.5 shaft, soft stepped twice, pretty much just the same as a PX 5.0, (nearly the same flex, same launch, same spin) or do some noticeable differences remain as far as launch and such but the flex measures overall softer? I'm trying to make a decision as to whether to soft step some 5.5s one or twice, my joints wouldl like twice, but I would prefer for flight purposes and control to go once.
Kelly

[jeffrey08250]

I've been making a few swing changes lately and I'm starting to notice that my ball flight is getting lower. My good swings are really low and my okay swings are still a pretty low trajectory. I'm playing S+ C-Tapers at the moment in my Cobra S3 Pro combos. I'm looking to potentially change clubs to a slightly more forgiving iron (588 CB, MP-59, etc.).

I assume that with the more forgiving iron, I'll instantly see a higher ball flight (or not?). I'm considering going to a different shaft though and don't want to see a ball flight that will be too high. I'm wanting to go to a softer feeling shaft than the C-Tapers, like the KBS Tour. I was thinking of going with the KBS Tour X soft stepped once. Comparing to my current shaft, how much of a ball flight increase would I see just with the shaft change? Are we talking minimal increase or a big increase?

[JoshuaVnyrd1817]

Great info. Always learn something reading your posts.

[DNice26]

Question for you guys: im interested in buying the Adams CMBs but i was told they dont offer the CTapers in S+ flex. Im currently playing the S+ flex in my MP68s at a 0.25" over standard length. If i bought the CMBs in standard length, what shaft flex would i want to go with....S, X or maybe some soft/hard stepping?

Thanks!!!!

[SpineNFlow]

I am playing the KBS Tours S+ (straight in) my MP59's they are perfect flex just a bit loose (I think they are 6.5fcm)

I am thinking changing of KBS C-Taper for more tip stiffness / accuracy

Question is the C-Taper a tad firmer in flex being tip stiffer?

I am thinking of soft stepping the C-Taper S+ to closely match my KBS Tours S+ (that are straight in)

I installed my KBS Tours S+ (125gm) to D2 length (coming out to...approx 1/4 inch over std)

Should I go to a D2.5 - D3 with C-Tapers to help the action of the stiffer lower shaft profile?

Have any of you KBS Shaft users had experience with the change from Tours to C-Tapers

[DNice26]

SpineNFlo.....go to KBS' website and go through their online fitting. When i went through it, the first recommendation was KBS Tours in S+ and the second recommendation was the CTapers in S flex. So to answer your question....yes, it would appear as though the CTapers are a bit more stout than the KBS tours.

[jcannan14]

Great chart, this helps to looks at the difference between shafts. I just recently switched from S300's to KBS Tour's after a proper fitting. What a huge difference the correct shaft makes.

[DoubleCup]

<<<So, is a PX 5.5 shaft, soft stepped twice, pretty much just the same as a PX 5.0, (nearly the same flex, same  launch, same spin) or do some noticeable differences remain as far as launch and such but the flex measures overall softer?  I'm trying to make a decision as to whether to soft step some 5.5s one or twice, my joints wouldl like twice, but I would prefer for flight purposes and control to go once.
Kelly>>>

I am debating the exact same thing here. Interesting that the chart shows soft-stopping PX once roughly equals one Full flex. This would suggest that PX flex differences aren't much different at all, correct? Most OEMs label 5.5s as "stiff" and 5.0s as "regular." But a "regular" PX is closer to a "Stiff" on the dynamic gold scale; which is pretty much the standard. Seems as though most modern shafts (KBS Tours, C-Tapers, PX) are much stiffer relative to what was once called "stiff."

[smoky25]

Howard-
Just wondering if you ever finished the FCM chart for overlength shafts (+1/2" etc.) Thanks.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='smoky25' timestamp='1343771041' post='5386172']
Howard-
Just wondering if you ever finished the FCM chart for overlength shafts (+1/2" etc.) Thanks.
[/quote]

No im sorry, but i never finished up that.
All Premium models from True Temper Sports is measured, but i have not done the math for converting this numbers yet, so i dont want to publish them like they are.

[tinman]

Howard, are the standard Rifle non-flighted shafts in the same category as the PX's(cpm's)?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='tinman' timestamp='1344244179' post='5414466']
Howard, are the standard Rifle non-flighted shafts in the same category as the PX's(cpm's)?
[/quote]

NO - Rifle shafts is what they tell they are, while PX is stronger, so if we let the mid and tip section out of it, butt cpm of a PX is 0.5 higer average than Rifle, meaning a Rifle 6.0 is equal to PX 5.5 (1 flex class difference all the way is the normal way of judging Rifles VS PX). If you go back to the chart on this page and look at FCM values, then they are Rifle flex numbers, so a shaft that is FCM 6.0 got equal butt CPM as Rifle 6.0

[pencilwhipper]

Any info on True Temper Black Gold shafts? I understand they play stiffer... possibly 6.5 fcm for a regular stiff shaft?

[Howard_Jones]

look at post #71

[dcforuk]

Howard - I have not yet had time to read every single post........so if this question has already been addressed, please just say so. For DGS300 @ 5.8 FCM, it also shows DGS400 ss. Is this for both tapered and parallel tips?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='dcforuk' timestamp='1345026042' post='5474866']
Howard - I have not yet had time to read every single post........so if this question has already been addressed, please just say so. For DGS300 @ 5.8 FCM, it also shows DGS400 ss. Is this for both tapered and parallel tips?
[/quote]

Both S300 and S400 is NOT made to be judged by butt CPM but when they are measured, S400 comes out 2-3 CPM stronger
I have used S300 Taper and S400 Tour Issue taper in this chart.

Use Hireko's very informative list of shafts for more info.
http://support.hirekogolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/2012SFAchapter2.pdf
se page 30

[Wardonation]

Does anyone know where the TT Monaco X flex lands on this chart?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Wardonation' timestamp='1345046414' post='5476492']
Does anyone know where the TT Monaco X flex lands on this chart?
[/quote]

They are as close as can be to ordinary Dynamic Gold X100.