Should Tiger get a new coach?

[MrParr1Noid]

I don't know that there is a coach who will be able to put tiger back together. Whatever his natural swing might have been, it is long gone, never to return.

 

 

Are you saying that "All The Kings Horses, And All The Kings Men"? Tiger is stale, and has been away from competitive golf for too long, maybe too long...

 

 

[kmiller2928]

He has put in too much time with foley to quite right now. He committed to a new swing coach. It's going to take a while to groove the swing. I would give it at least one more year. Then, if he's still not doing well, think about getting a new coach.

[Jimbud]

[quote name='xrayvsnlv' timestamp='1313110135' post='3475424']
Who cares?
[/quote]

Honestly, Why would you click on a thread and then comment on it when you don't care about it?

[grahler]

Tiger was doing better with no coach than what he has shown so far with Ghandi. To me the issue is Tiger alienated the people who were guiding him well before now and now he has made his own decisions about the direction of his game-LOOK where it got him!
Don't listen Tiger!
Talks about fighting old patterns???
Why not use his natural inclinations as part of a hybrid type move? Foley is method and Tiger does not suit the method.

[PedronNiall]

He said himself in his post-round interview that when he stopped using the mechanics he's been working to integrate and started trying to play by feel again is when he fell apart. It takes time to work into grooving a new swing and a conscious effort not to fall back on old habits once you're out on the course. I think the Foley method, whatever it is, will work for him.

[triplebogeyblues]

[quote name='PedronNiall' timestamp='1313123200' post='3476246']
He said himself in his post-round interview that when he stopped using the mechanics he's been working to integrate and started trying to play by feel again is when he fell apart. It takes time to work into grooving a new swing and a conscious effort not to fall back on old habits once you're out on the course. I think the Foley method, whatever it is, will work for him.
[/quote]

After a few bad holes, I am curious why he couldn't regroup, and go back to using the mechanics that made him so successful the first 4 holes.

[faux_maestro]

[quote name='grahler' timestamp='1313122682' post='3476226']
[b]Tiger was doing better with no coach than what he has shown so far with Ghandi. [/b] To me the issue is Tiger alienated the people who were guiding him well before now and now he has made his own decisions about the direction of his game-LOOK where it got him!
Don't listen Tiger!
Talks about fighting old patterns???
Why not use his natural inclinations as part of a hybrid type move? Foley is method and Tiger does not suit the method.
[/quote]
The last time I remember Tiger without a coach was last year at Firestone. What was he, +18 that week?



[quote name='perry.m.gill' timestamp='1313115125' post='3475753']
[b]Except Charlie Wi.[/b]
[quote name='tbowles411' timestamp='1313110924' post='3475471']
[quote name='Frankie Lob Wedge' timestamp='1313110881' post='3475466']
I wonder if the [b]Stack & Tilt[/b] guys could help him?
[/quote]
That swing can't help ANYBODY.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Yeah 'cause Charlie Wi is KILLING the tour right now.


[quote name='H.A. Kerr' timestamp='1313111826' post='3475530']
I think Tiger should spend more time on internet forums finding out what's best for his game.
[/quote]

This is best advice I've heard in a while.....

[grahler]

Sean Phony has been very busy confusing and retraining Tiger for some time now. Tiger himself said he wanted to use his feel/instincts but they didn't work.
Sean Phony has ruined the instincts of the greatest player in golf.
He should resign.
Has Tiger won under Phony, I mean Foley?

[TheDarkOne]

I have said this from day one, he doesn't need a coach. I believe Woods knows more about the golf swing than Butch, Haney, and Foley put together. If he could ever get himself away from Foley, by far the worst of the bunch, it would be a great move.
When Foley finally gets the boot after this year is over, I hope Woods does his own work, alone away from everyone else. He needs time away to find himself, his swing, and his soul.

[HCEG1]

[quote name='grahler' timestamp='1313128109' post='3476357']
Sean Phony has been very busy confusing and retraining Tiger for some time now. Tiger himself said he wanted to use his feel/instincts but they didn't work.
Sean Phony has ruined the instincts of the greatest player in golf.
He should resign.
Has Tiger won under Phony, I mean Foley?
[/quote]

Your avatar got me thinking about Hogan.

Best ball striker ever, despite, or maybe because of the fact that he didn't have a coach

Smoked like a chimney, never went near a gym, ate whatever he wanted, didn't have a shrink,,,,,

I'd love to see many of the hangers-on that so any players feel they need these days get sent packing. Bring back a more natural form of the game, please!

[ChrizZ]

There is nothing natural about the golf swing. Tiger has had a swing coach since he was 2 years old. It took Hogan 10+ years of trial and error to develop the swing he had. TIger doesn´t have the time to "dig it out in the dirt".

I believe him when he says that the swing isn´t fully engrained yet. Swing changes are extremely tough.

[PowayDoyle]

[quote name='H.A. Kerr' timestamp='1313111826' post='3475530']
I think Tiger should spend more time on internet forums finding out what's best for his game.
[/quote]

That best comment I have ever heard

[-oo-]

[quote name='PedronNiall' timestamp='1313123200' post='3476246']
He said himself in his post-round interview that when he stopped using the mechanics he's been working to integrate and started trying to play by feel again is when he fell apart. It takes time to work into grooving a new swing and a conscious effort not to fall back on old habits once you're out on the course. I think the Foley method, whatever it is, will work for him.
[/quote]

Right now opposing mindsets are not working for him...

IS:
Foley's method brings to mind way too much detail.
Foley's method, aka kool aid in an unmarked bottle, is killing Tiger's game with way too many brain waves.

WAS:
Tiger could take a complex situation and make it simple.
"Don't think just do it."

[GooseHook]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1313111939' post='3475545']
[quote name='PedronNiall' timestamp='1313110685' post='3475458']
I voted no. He was three-under through five. Whatever caused him to blow up was mental, not his long or short-game.
[/quote]

Well he blew up on that par 3 with a 3 iron to a right flag. He tried to hit a fade and just wiped across the ball, got too in front of it and never recovered. Not really mental on that hole atleast, probably afterward
[/quote]


True, yes, but also difficult to tell. I wasn't there in person, but that was a tough hole to get at, being 250+ yards or so. You could argue that the mental error was the line he picked off the tee, he was getting so much bunker practice that he should have bailed to the left!

[cinnepa]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1313128722' post='3476371']
I have said this from day one, he doesn't need a coach. I believe Woods knows more about the golf swing than Butch, Haney, and Foley put together. If he could ever get himself away from Foley, by far the worst of the bunch, it would be a great move.
When Foley finally gets the boot after this year is over, I hope Woods does his own work, alone away from everyone else. He needs time away to find himself, his swing, and his soul.
[/quote]


totally agree, i think all these guys place much stock into coaches....tigger and phil especially. if you're at that level you would think all you would need is a set of eyes to help you out once in a while, that's it.....not going thru a total swing breakdown/rebuild. they probably do it out of fear.

[imakaveli]

You really think a new coach is what Tiger needs most? I think he needs to get his life together and change the attitude! He is a very fragile person, so he first have to recover as a person, then as a player!

[abc]

Long story short: Tiger needs a new attitude.

[juslow]

No doubt Tiger for me is the greatest golfing talent we have seen since the early early days of vardon , Ray, Oumet, Jones, Hogan etc etc,

We know he has the talent and skill to come back and win and take more majors.......the problem right now for Tiger is purely psychological after all he has put himself through recently.

The mental battle is going to be the hardest fight of all for Tiger, changing caddies, trainers etc will not help. If he can win this battle then he will have proved himself truly to be a great and worthy champion and undoubtedley the best of all time.

Tiger has proved himself to be amazingly single minded and focused out on the golf course........now its time to do it off the course......

Time will tell if hes got the character to pull through but its not gonna be easy.

[D2Doug]

he hit 4 iron to the water, not 3 iron. He thought 3 would be to long he said. He thought 4, and he's either on, or right at the front, chip on, and get out of there, but as Golf Channel showed, he had a horrible swing move on that ball. He essentially crouched down on the ball to more of a wedge position at one point, then had to compensate and straighten it up. If that's natural, he needs to swing mechanical.

[HCEG1]

Calamitous stuff yesterday, I can't remember when [i]I[/i] last visited 11 bunkers in one round. In a week, maybe, but in 18 holes, what the heck?


Just to make it even more challenging, he found 2 lakes as well

[mikpga]

I voted NO...

How would you define a "Traditional" coach?

[SFFP(2)]

There's a lot of duality in his comments. He said last week and this week that he's not moving the ball as much as he's used too ... To be honest thats a pretty easy fix, once you know it doesn't move that much, line it up a little less to the left/right.

He talks about the mechanics and so fort ... I think he's asking Foley to teach him a swing he wants to have, and thats not working yet. I'm not sure Foley is pushing his mechanics on Tiger, I think Tiger wants a certain swing ans Foley needs to make it happen.

If you get burnt touching a stove once, even twice, would you do it again? Why does he consistently hit fades or draws too far off target if he knows they're not turning as much as he would like them too?
Sounds like he's being stubborn. He'd like to curve it more, well sorry Tiger it's not working, play the swing that works instead of trying to do something that's proven not to work.

Foley has no fault here. Would you line up 5 yards left if you know you can only draw it back 2 yards?

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1313128722' post='3476371']
I have said this from day one, he doesn't need a coach. I believe Woods knows more about the golf swing than Butch, Haney, and Foley put together. If he could ever get himself away from Foley, by far the worst of the bunch, it would be a great move.
When Foley finally gets the boot after this year is over, I hope Woods does his own work, alone away from everyone else. He needs time away to find himself, his swing, and his soul.
[/quote]
I agree...never understood why TW needs a coach. He knows more about the game than anyone.

I think Tiger has become too enamored with gaining distance. He is saying he is hitting everything further right now. What good does that do when you have a two way miss? At least with Hank and Butch's swing, he only had the one way miss to the right. The guy (Steve Stricker) leading the tournament with a 63 yesterday is not long by any stretch of the imagination. He gets it around by managing his game and getting it down from 100 yards and in better than anyone. Tiger has not adjusted to other guys blowing it by him yet. With his iron play and short game (old short game, not current), he could get back to dominance by scaling it back 20 yards and hitting 65% of the fairways.

[Philadelphia Collins]

The reverse pivot can't be good for the knee.

[varsityhacker]

Tigers problems are not Foley's fault. The golf channel showed last night where Tiger is bowing forward in his downswing as he always has done which puts him to close to the ball and he then has to pop up to save the shot. If Tiger began his downswing by standing and extending his spine up he would be fine.

Now you could argue that Tiger should never have gone to the swing philosophy of Foley because he has always lowered his body in the downswing which is not compatibly with the swing he is trying to make. However is that Foleys fault or Tigers?

[HCEG1]

[quote name='SFFP(2)' timestamp='1313149929' post='3476663']
There's a lot of duality in his comments. He said last week and this week that he's not moving the ball as much as he's used too ... To be honest thats a pretty easy fix, once you know it doesn't move that much, line it up a little less to the left/right.

He talks about the mechanics and so fort ... I think he's asking Foley to teach him a swing he wants to have, and thats not working yet. I'm not sure Foley is pushing his mechanics on Tiger, I think Tiger wants a certain swing ans Foley needs to make it happen.

If you get burnt touching a stove once, even twice, would you do it again? Why does he consistently hit fades or draws too far off target if he knows they're not turning as much as he would like them too?
Sounds like he's being stubborn. He'd like to curve it more, well sorry Tiger it's not working, play the swing that works instead of trying to do something that's proven not to work.

Foley has no fault here. [b]Would you line up 5 yards left if you know you can only [i]draw[/i] it back 2 yards?[/b]
[/quote]

'fade' maybe?

[7humbs]

He's going mental, and maybe it is paralysis by analysis. I have to say that when he's on the range the positions look great but if he has to think too much to hit them, it's no good. It's like stack and tilt... they mean well but it's just too much crap to think about (this accumulator, that accumulator...). It would work great for a robot but we're not robots - they took it too far.


Not that it has anything to do with Tiger but there's something about Foley that annoys me - maybe it's the man purse, constant filming, and swing modeling that he does for Tiger. He just doesn't seem like a natural golf coach compared to a guy like Butch Harmon who just fits in.

[spitfisher]

I didn't vote because there was no 3rd option of :

I don't care, or I don't know

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

He needs Matt Killen. Matt did wonders for Kenny Perry.

[7humbs]

[quote name='grahler' timestamp='1313128109' post='3476357']
Sean Phony has been very busy confusing and retraining Tiger for some time now. Tiger himself said he wanted to use his feel/instincts but they didn't work.
Sean Phony has ruined the instincts of the greatest player in golf.
He should resign.
Has Tiger won under Phony, I mean Foley?
[/quote]
You have to remember that Tiger went to Foley to learn something... It was Tiger's choice (good or bad) and now he's trying to learn Foley's methods, so it's Tiger's fault if they don't work.

Ultimately, a coaches ability shouldn't be judged solely on a particular player's performance. [b]I think a coach can only take a player so far (hopefully to their maximum potential), and then keep an eye on things to try and ensure that player is at their peak as often as possible.[/b] [color="#ff0000"][u]Tiger's going through hell right now because he's trying to make a ton of swing changes[/u][/color] - it's probably one of the worst experiences in golf (it was for me).