Should Tiger get a new coach?

[Sean2]

TW probably knows what he needs better than any of us.

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

[quote name='swbyps' timestamp='1313198773' post='3479113']
[quote name='stoverny' timestamp='1313163675' post='3477287']
Tiger is really a case in point in just how much of this game is mental.

Before his car crash in 2009, his previous 10 tournaments were 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 11th, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 6th, 1st.

He went through personal hell and it screwed up his head which screwed up his game.

Unfortunately he made a very poor choice to scrap a swing that was producing amazing results, when all he probably needed was some more time off to clear his head.
[/quote]

[b]THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING EVER SINCE THIS MESS STARTED! HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE CHANGED HIS SWING FROM HANEY![/b] No one would have expected to play good golf going through what he was at the time. And you are right...it was not the swing..he needed to get his head right.

That being said..A new coach? Another swing change? I dont know. I do think Tiger is sold on the method. The way he keeps saying how hes hitting it farther, getting more compression, the flight is tighter. I dont think hes going to make a change. He just thinks he needs more practice.
[/quote]


BUT Tiger fan boys attacked Haney for ruining his swing! They trashed Haney!

He needs Dr. Rotella and Trevino. I also said Matt Killen but people disagreed.

[tackotis]

foley's players haven't had any success, which doesn't bode well for tiger, but i think it would help tiger to have some continuity in his game

[LUMA]

He's too far away from the ball and bent too dam far over. He needs to stop trying to "fix a new swing". Seeing him struggle is not fun. I think he has paid his dues...

[neutral]

there should be a third choice a nice 6 iron tour striker.

[Tate]

I know its a movie but i think it fits for Tiger..... "Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."
-Bagger Vance

[LUMA]

[quote name='Tate' timestamp='1313208277' post='3479893']
I know its a movie but i think it fits for Tiger..... "Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."
-Bagger Vance
[/quote]


I watched that the other night lol. "Oh yes ..."

[PedronNiall]

I definitely know he needs to figure his short game out and that I don't think Foley can teach him anything about.

[hogans71]

[quote name='tigerphan' timestamp='1313200692' post='3479244']
with all of his time off, its really only 6 months with foley. new distance is great, just needs to get used to it. Once his short game/putting gets more solid then he'll get some "w's" again. Foley is a great teacher, even looking what he did with all of his juniors/am's in the last few years is beyond crazy. Basically dominating every event. He knows how to produce/what people need. Tiger will be back to normal by the masters/has a good amount of time to work with foley in the upcoming months.
[/quote]

Man- you gotta love your persistence. You've been suggesting a return to form for months. Even predicting high finishes/ wins. Now you say by next April? Oh well, whatever floats your boat...

[usmcdad]

It's not his coach right now. He's still trying to hit the shots of old with a new swing. If you saw his press conference, he explained that. His fades and draws aren't moving as much but he's compressing the ball better than ever. Because of this better compression, he doesn't know what his yardages are for each club. As an amateur that's devastating, but think of it at a Tour Pro level. He'll finally have time to practice and work on everything now that he's healthy. I do think he will be back and will be competitive again. He just needs some time.

[puttingmatt]

Time to Fire Foley !!! Tiger needs to
work on his swing alone !!! No outside
interference !!!! Foley's Methods Fail !!!!

[golfdu]

Can someone get Carl Weathers to teach Tiger? He'd be perfect because he could just teach him it's all in the hips and he can teach Tiger how to get the Eye of the Tiger back!

[starsail85]

I actually like the way he's swinging it,big jump from the practice tee to a major though.hel get there I think,and sooner than many of you would have thought. That laid off swing with haney was never going to hit fairways, I like the new action

my biggest worries are how poor his bunker play is, some of the worst on tour surely, and his wedge game is poor from inside 100 yards, I think he's struggled with the groove change and needs more practice, seems to be holing a few putts however

he will win majors under foley

[jeffrott]

I would go to more traditional instructors, Peter Kostis, Jim Mclean, Hell why not try Michael Breed, it couldn't hurt his swing anymore than it already has, he looks like a 12 hcp.
.

[jimb]

Tiger doesn't even need a coach. He has video equipment. By now if he doesn't understand what comprises a good golf swing a new coach isn't going to help.

He has the money to afford his own video equipment. If I were him, I would study Adam Scott's swing and then copy it. Better yet, copy Tom Watson. Tiger's tee game has always been his weakness. There is absolutely no tempo with driver or now with the 3 wood. This is now creeping into his iron game. He has become a hitter with his irons when he used to be a swinger.

Anyone notice how many greens he flew at the PGA? Right over the flags and into trouble. He is also pressing. The longer this goes on the worse it is going to be.

He is now happy for time off. He has had enough time off, he needs to play against competition like someone trying to get their card.

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

He needs to watch videos of Hogan, Trevino and Seve. One of his "[i]girlfriends"[/i] said he liked to watch cartoons and eat cereal.

[AFcelica]

if i was tiger i'd come to threads like these to have a good laugh

[trapsmv15]

[quote name='usmcdad' timestamp='1313214557' post='3480162']
It's not his coach right now. He's still trying to hit the shots of old with a new swing. If you saw his press conference, he explained that. His fades and draws aren't moving as much but he's compressing the ball better than ever. Because of this better compression, he doesn't know what his yardages are for each club. As an amateur that's devastating, but think of it at a Tour Pro level. He'll finally have time to practice and work on everything now that he's healthy. I do think he will be back and will be competitive again. He just needs some time.
[/quote]
It is a fair point.

[HCEG1]

Some interesting remarks from Butch, moments ago, talking to Ewan Murray on Sky tv

'Tiger ought to get a still of that swing by Adam Scott right there' (Scotty on the 2nd hole)

He went on to say that when Adam came to him as a 19 year old, he didn't 'teach him a Tiger swing' it was just the way he swung it anyway. Said he played a lot with Tiger as a youngster and won his first event with a back-up set of Tiger's irons

[hbgpagolfpro]

I think Sean Foley has the potential to be an excellent teacher, but he needs to be a bit more open minded. What he needs to realize is that guys like Haney, Harmon, Kostis, and the like, have been around the block many times. They know better than to totally apply one method to every player. Foley needs to understand this at some point. There is no one best way to swing a golf club. Changing the swing of the best player of all time, and taking away the artistic side of that player's swing is a recipe for disaster. I can see Tiger playing well in spurts, but at this point, he has a two-way miss with both his driver and his irons. Alot of that is due to rust, but some of that has to do with the search for the distance he wants to find to keep up with the younger players. That search for distance has cost a lot of players their careers. Tiger is the best ever, so most of us feel like he will find it eventually, but it gets harder and harder as we get older, particularly if we have injuries.

Foley needs to mature as a teacher. Some have pointed out his success with juniors. Juniors are EASY to teach because they can imitate way better than adults. The best teachers are able to make lousy adult golfers alot better. Foley has not proven that yet...he works mainly with gifted players. It has always seemed to me that he is trying to prove that his method is the best. That kind of arrogance will destroy him, and the longer it takes Tiger to get it, the worse it will be for Foley, especially since his other players are not winning either.

[HCEG1]

[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1313296085' post='3483186']
I think Sean Foley has the potential to be an excellent teacher, but he needs to be a bit more open minded. What he needs to realize is that guys like Haney, Harmon, Kostis, and the like, have been around the block many times. They know better than to totally apply one method to every player. Foley needs to understand this at some point. There is no one best way to swing a golf club. Changing the swing of the best player of all time, and taking away the artistic side of that player's swing is a recipe for disaster. I can see Tiger playing well in spurts, but at this point, he has a two-way miss with both his driver and his irons. Alot of that is due to rust, but some of that has to do with the search for the distance he wants to find to keep up with the younger players. That search for distance has cost a lot of players their careers. Tiger is the best ever, so most of us feel like he will find it eventually, but it gets harder and harder as we get older, particularly if we have injuries.

Foley needs to mature as a teacher. Some have pointed out his success with juniors. Juniors are EASY to teach because they can imitate way better than adults. The best teachers are able to make lousy adult golfers alot better. Foley has not proven that yet...he works mainly with gifted players. It has always seemed to me that he is trying to prove that his method is the best. That kind of arrogance will destroy him, and the longer it takes Tiger to get it, the worse it will be for Foley, especially [b]since his other players are not winning either.[/b][/quote]

Eg Justin Rose. Watching him recently at Wentworth, I saw some horror wedge shots, both thin and fat.

Ironic in that that's why he had specifically enlisted Foley

[grahler]

Foley needs to learn a bit more about competitive golf and how to win IMO. The ball doesn't care what plane the backswing is on on video or how baseline and clubface affect aiming. All golfers in competition will have movement pattern breakdown tendencies and the swing pattern must fit so that these do not become disastrous.
With Foney it appears to me one thing is certain-Sean Foney is very theory based-reminds me of a book mechanical engineer fresh out of school who has never been in an industrial environment or on a production line.

Foley's swing might look good on paper but Hogan even said competition is the true test.

[CANgolf]

I think Tiger should stick with Foley and see what happens, Foley's a great coach a couple of personal friends have been taught by him.. Tiger's always had a good short game, besides putting as of late.. I think if he gets some solid practice in with Foley he can eventually develop a great swing again.. He hasn't had much time with Foley between his injury and everything else going on, they haven't really been able to get solid practice in.. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens when he comes back after some work done with Foley.

[PedronNiall]

This nonsense Foley has in Tiger's head about his putting being "a microcosm" of the full-swing is a joke. That right there tells me about all I need to know about what he's going to do for Tiger's short game. True pitching--not three-quarter wedges--chipping, and putting are their own animal and need to be treated as such. In the words of August Burns Red, "This ship is sinking, deeper and deeper. We've abandoned this vessel, and left the captain for dead."

[tommytom11]

[quote name='PedronNiall' timestamp='1313301842' post='3483355']
This nonsense Foley has in Tiger's head about his putting being "a microcosm" of the full-swing is a joke. That right there tells me about all I need to know about what he's going to do for Tiger's short game. True pitching--not three-quarter wedges--chipping, and putting are their own animal and need to be treated as such. In the words of August Burns Red, "This ship is sinking, deeper and deeper. We've abandoned this vessel, and left the captain for dead."
[/quote]

the guy had the very best short game, scramble save game, and was the best putter in the history of the game. WHY would you change that?????????????????????????

[300yard+]

Get back to Butch and the old swing with a bit modification for the leg...With foleys mess he looks so stiff and out of sync. At times he looks like hes seizing.

[Bob57]

Maybe Foley can change Tiger's swing to be more like Barkleys. At times his swing looked interrupted, especially the over the top moves he was doing.

[farmer]

OK, here's a new thought. Perhaps tiger has some form of OCD. Look at what he has done. A very serviceable swing that blew away the Masters. Then a change to anew swing that was so good that he blew away the world. Tinkered and tinkered, then adopted another new swing that enabled him to dominate, even while in transition. Tinkered and tinkered, is now in process for another new swing, with very questionable results. Has worked out to the point that he has injured himself. Was a compulsive adulterer, to the point that he destroyed his public image as well as private life. Someone here will have some clinical knowledge, but this matches some of the criteria.

[tigerphan]

[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1313296085' post='3483186']
I think Sean Foley has the potential to be an excellent teacher, but he needs to be a bit more open minded. What he needs to realize is that guys like[b] Haney[/b], Harmon, Kostis, and the like, have been around the block many times. They know better than to totally apply one method to every player. Foley needs to understand this at some point. There is no one best way to swing a golf club. Changing the swing of the best player of all time, and taking away the artistic side of that player's swing is a recipe for disaster. I can see Tiger playing well in spurts, but at this point, he has a two-way miss with both his driver and his irons. Alot of that is due to rust, but some of that has to do with the search for the distance he wants to find to keep up with the younger players. That search for distance has cost a lot of players their careers. Tiger is the best ever, so most of us feel like he will find it eventually, but it gets harder and harder as we get older, particularly if we have injuries.

Foley needs to mature as a teacher. Some have pointed out his success with juniors. Juniors are EASY to teach because they can imitate way better than adults. The best teachers are able to make lousy adult golfers alot better. Foley has not proven that yet...he works mainly with gifted players. It has always seemed to me that he is trying to prove that his method is the best. That kind of arrogance will destroy him, and the longer it takes Tiger to get it, the worse it will be for Foley, especially since his other players are not winning either.
[/quote]

potential to be a excellent teacher, last time i checked having hunter mahan, tiger woods, justin rose, steven ams, jamie lovemark , some of the top am's in the world is a sign of a one the best teachers in the world. if you understood the foley method, you would know he doesn't fit the players into one standard swing.

haney destory's juniors swings consistently at his junior academy, i know one junior as a example that went there as a good golfer, one year later got worse, then went to foley's camp and is a lot better now then when he was at his best before.

haney swing is lay off bump the hips and hope to catch it good. have you seen his tv show, he didn't improve ray or charles.

Im not going to get into these stupid debates about foley much more. No one in here clearly understands anything about what foley teaches(unless you work with him still/have worked with him/are tiger woods) do some research into his background when he was back in Canada and what he did with all of students(young/old/bad/good players) and then come back with points on other students why he is not a good teacher.

*not trying to come off rude

[PedronNiall]

Good post tigerphan, especially as it speaks to a post I was going to put up about some coaches ruining many players' swings just to make a name for themselves with one or two other players. That said, tthat still doesn't answer the more important issue of Tiger's short game and what has happened to it under Foley.

His ball striking isn't what destroyed him this week, it was his inability to save par from around the green and drop putts for birdie. Maybe you can shed light on that, but I still find "the putting stroke is a microcosm of the full-swing" to be ridiculous., and it is a joke as well to apply this philosophy to the rest of the short game as well. I welcome a retort to this.

Tiger said he fell apart when he stopped focusing on the mechanics that Foley wanted him to work on, but there's nothing mechanical about a good short game.