Can your path be inside out...

[upanddown]

.. but have a steep angle of decent? I thought inside out was always shallow...

[juststeve]

Yes, although it is not very common you can be inside out and steep. Why not?

Steve

[JJK947]

[quote name='upanddown' timestamp='1314302009' post='3518877']
.. but have a steep angle of decent? I thought inside out was always shallow...
[/quote]

Play the ball off your back foot with your weight forward, that should do it...

But generally, the further right your path is, the more shallow you will be, but it isn't impossible to manipulate these things.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Sure and I have the divots to prove it. Mostly in front of where the ball was teed up with my driver.

My poor swings are too steep with all clubs. Wedges and short irons, too steep and out-to-in. Hybrids, woods and especially driver too steep and in-to-out.

Doesn't work well but yet I do it anyway, go figure...

[upanddown]

Can someone provide a good description of path vs angle of attack and what might cause this (and the correction)? I feel like its a little over the top but how can an inside out swing path be over the top?

[TB07]

[quote name='upanddown' timestamp='1314317893' post='3519536']
Can someone provide a good description of path vs angle of attack and what might cause this (and the correction)? I feel like its a little over the top but how can an inside out swing path be over the top?
[/quote]


It depends what your definition of "over the top " is. Over the top of your backswing plane, shaft plane etc etc. Measurments of HSP is the base of the plane, measurment of path is the sweetspot of the club at impact, and AoA is how much down or up you are hitting.

So your Horizontal Swing Plane (base of the plane) might not be at the hole, your Angle Of Attack might be downward, and your Path (sweet spot of the club) as it travels down, might still register in to out.

[upanddown]

[quote name='slicer2scratch' timestamp='1314323856' post='3519841']
[quote name='upanddown' timestamp='1314317893' post='3519536']
Can someone provide a good description of path vs angle of attack and what might cause this (and the correction)? I feel like its a little over the top but how can an inside out swing path be over the top?
[/quote]


It depends what your definition of "over the top " is. Over the top of your backswing plane, shaft plane etc etc. Measurments of HSP is the base of the plane, measurment of path is the sweetspot of the club at impact, and AoA is how much down or up you are hitting.

So your Horizontal Swing Plane (base of the plane) might not be at the hole, your Angle Of Attack might be downward, and your Path (sweet spot of the club) as it travels down, might still register in to out.
[/quote]

Okay.. I would define "over the top" as anytime the clubhead is outside the hands (further away from your body) BEFORE you reach the delivery position (club parallel to the ground). Not sure if that is accurate or not.. I just made it up.

I would define "steep" as when the shaft at impact is "significantly" higher than it was at address. I say "significantly" because not even Tour pros return it exactly to the same position "planed".

How is that?

[TB07]

As the handle raises toward impact the clubhead tends to fall under plane. However if your hands are outside at that delivery position likely your outside in.





What is your ball flight and what are you trying to do?

[nitefisher111]

Loss of axis tilt will allow you to come in steep and still hit it from the inside.

[happyroman]

The answer to your question is yes, you can swing inside out with a steep angle of attack. Think of the swing arc as a hula hoop. The more the hoop is standing up on its side, the closer it would be to a vertical swing plane, creating a sharply descending angle of attack. The more the hoop is tilted, so that it gets closer to a horizontal plane, and if it is aligned with the target line, the more the arc would approach impact more from the inside. This is what you are referring to when you say that more from the inside is shallower.

However, you could take the more vertical plane and rotate it so that it is no longer aligned with the target line, but rather crosses the target line from in to out as much as you want. This would create an in to out plane with a more sharply descending angle of attack.

[ObieTrice5]

[quote name='nitefisher111' timestamp='1314368714' post='3520796']
Loss of axis tilt will allow you to come in steep and still hit it from the inside.
[/quote]


Can you explain axis tilt? Does this have anything to do with losing spine tilt at impact?

[upanddown]

[quote name='happyroman' timestamp='1314372137' post='3520937']
The answer to your question is yes, you can swing inside out with a steep angle of attack. Think of the swing arc as a hula hoop. The more the hoop is standing up on its side, the closer it would be to a vertical swing plane, creating a sharply descending angle of attack. The more the hoop is tilted, so that it gets closer to a horizontal plane, and if it is aligned with the target line, the more the arc would approach impact more from the inside. This is what you are referring to when you say that more from the inside is shallower.

However, you could take the more vertical plane and rotate it so that it is no longer aligned with the target line, but rather crosses the target line from in to out as much as you want. This would create an in to out plane with a more sharply descending angle of attack.
[/quote]


That makes sense.. To answer the question "what am I trying to do?" My typical miss is a block or push.. sometimes push draw but other times push slice. So, I fear OB/trouble right. While I tend to draw the ball, I have no fear of left because I'm always starting balls to the right and if they turn back.. great! The real problem with my type of miss is under pressure it can turn into a pull because of the fear of missing right. I know I'm inside out, steep and usually face open because I just went through a fitting. What am I trying to do? Play the draw but have my miss be where the ball is starting..not right to right and eliminate the band aid fix pull...

[TB07]

The push fade comes from the face being more open than your path is inside out.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1314304470' post='3519010']
Sure and I have the divots to prove it. Mostly in front of where the ball was teed up with my driver.


[/quote]

Shouldnt be taking divots with the driver...

[upanddown]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1314382737' post='3521417']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1314304470' post='3519010']
Sure and I have the divots to prove it. Mostly in front of where the ball was teed up with my driver.


[/quote]

Shouldnt be taking divots with the driver...
[/quote]


Hey..no hijacking my thread!

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1314382737' post='3521417']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1314304470' post='3519010']
Sure and I have the divots to prove it. Mostly in front of where the ball was teed up with my driver.


[/quote]

Shouldnt be taking divots with the driver...
[/quote]

Tell me about it. Especially in front of the ball.

But I can make 'em behind the ball too. There actually aren't too many awful swings that I haven't made at some point.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='upanddown' timestamp='1314383034' post='3521430']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1314382737' post='3521417']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1314304470' post='3519010']
Sure and I have the divots to prove it. Mostly in front of where the ball was teed up with my driver.


[/quote]

Shouldnt be taking divots with the driver...
[/quote]


Hey..no hijacking my thread!
[/quote]
okay okay...back on topic

I think most of the stack and tilt guys see inside out and steep. Im making changes to my pattern at the moment and have hit lots of steep in-out shots. Usually the clubface is a little more shut than it needs to be and I hit a fairly large draw. A steep shoulder turn with lots of intentful arm to body connection and setting the weight left with shaft leaning forward at address. Depending on your grip I think its easy to be in-out and steep with those parameters.

[upanddown]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1314411956' post='3522380']
[quote name='upanddown' timestamp='1314383034' post='3521430']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1314382737' post='3521417']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1314304470' post='3519010']
Sure and I have the divots to prove it. Mostly in front of where the ball was teed up with my driver.


[/quote]

Shouldnt be taking divots with the driver...
[/quote]


Hey..no hijacking my thread!
[/quote]
okay okay...back on topic

I think most of the stack and tilt guys see inside out and steep. Im making changes to my pattern at the moment and have hit lots of steep in-out shots. Usually the clubface is a little more shut than it needs to be and I hit a fairly large draw. A steep shoulder turn with lots of intentful arm to body connection and setting the weight left with shaft leaning forward at address. Depending on your grip I think its easy to be in-out and steep with those parameters.
[/quote]


I think you are right.... I think I need to work on shallowing the club on the transition a la Sergio, GMac.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='upanddown' timestamp='1314414327' post='3522478']


I think you are right.... I think I need to work on shallowing the club on the transition a la Sergio, GMac.
[/quote]

just keep in mind those are dead handed maneuvers you see in slow mo vids. Thats not a conscious hand action.

If youre steep and in to out without a stack and tilt looking motion the there could be some grip issues...or a flaw in hip moves during transition

[golfdu]

Yes, but it is not common. Basically, to get the path inside-out, you slide your hips (not that much) in the downswing. A high draw is a lot easier goal to achieve than trying to hit it dead straight IMO. Think about it, to hit the ball straight in no wind, the ball must have 0 RPM of side-spin, and that's physically impossible. Most PGA Tour golfers have a high draw as their stock shot.

[nitefisher111]

[quote name='ObieTrice5' timestamp='1314372319' post='3520944']
[quote name='nitefisher111' timestamp='1314368714' post='3520796']
Loss of axis tilt will allow you to come in steep and still hit it from the inside.
[/quote]


Can you explain axis tilt? Does this have anything to do with losing spine tilt at impact?
[/quote]

Yes. Axis tilt is upper body tilt away away from the target. If someone is overly steep and from the inside they either have the ball way back in their stance or or lose this tilt (or never create it). Many higher handicappers slide both their upper and lower body at the same time toward the target. Lower body (hip) slide is fine, upper body slide is a no no.