Numbers from US AM

[apprenti23]

I don't have to refer to one specific market. I'm talking golf as a whole. When you talk equipment manufacturers, you encompass their entire product line; so you must include all types of golfers.

[golflifer]

[quote name='apprenti23' timestamp='1314660775' post='3528537']
I don't have to refer to one specific market. I'm talking golf as a whole. When you talk equipment manufacturers, you encompass their entire product line; so you must include all types of golfers.
[/quote]

I'm not and this wasn't my point, simply I thought TM would have better numbers at US AM

[WhiteStake]

I volunteered at the US Am this year and Titleist did have a huge presence. Ping was definitely next. After those two, it was just the odd player here or there. The only exception was the R11 Driver; I'd say there were quite a number of those in play. Very little of anything else. Also...lots of Blades and S56; never saw one shovel in two days.

One other thing I found interesting was a lot of players seemed to be using GP Tour Velvet grips. Much more than I would have expected.

[jmygolf]

And dont forget that your local pro gets a little kickback into a retirement fund when he is selling Titleist as a staffer. Unless that has changed in the last few years. So there are alot of players out there in clubs all over the country that have Titleist equipment whether than can play it or not. NOT THAT OTHERS HAVENT SOLD FOR THEIR OWN BENEFITS, by the way. But keep these things in mind when thinking on numbers. There are reasons behind other than just "playing what is best."
Golf is a BIG business and it starts on the retail and club levels.


[quote name='BigLeftyinAZ' timestamp='1314460764' post='3523273']
No shock here.This is where and how the brain washing begins. Titleist begins their tactics at the JR levels. It's why you see so many 70 year olds playing the Pro V.
[/quote]

[OB ReT Hit 3]

[quote name='bjfed' timestamp='1314584209' post='3526448']
I caddied in the USGA MidAm when it was here in 08. Didnt see the survey but there was Titleist everywhere. I may be wrong but i bet the amateur equipment hook ups are a little harder to come by after college and you arent turning pro so you have limited earning potential for the OEM. Im sure guys like Nathan Smith, Trip Kuehne, Tim Jackson and a few others get free gear but a lot of them are on their own dime in the 25+ crowd and its still a lot of Titleist out there.
[/quote]


Kuehne and Smith get WHAT ever they want from TM. (Kuehne not so much any more since he is retired) TM indentifies several top ams and mid ams, basically puts them on staff. I have a good friend who is on that program. What ever he wants when ever he wants it. clubs shoes hats shirts, pants, etc. Anything with a TM logo or 3 strips

[dusts66]

College players play what ever they can get free(know from experience D1 program). Titleist really pushes their College programs where the other manufacturers don't. Titleist has never had the best equipment nor are they innovators in any way, but they know how to market. That's why they dominate.
[quote name='Dillinger' timestamp='1314495568' post='3524324']
[quote name='wfrogge1' timestamp='1314486125' post='3523985']
[quote name='jbrunone' timestamp='1314465868' post='3523416']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1314460763' post='3523272']
Titleist is the biggest contibutor to college golf. Those players are Ams so there is no money, but there is free equipment.

Never EVER trust those playing numbers as a statement of a product's quality. This is BIG business worth millions. The major OEMs know where to and how to groom product reps (top ams).
[/quote]

+1 atleast half of these guys arnt paying for clubs, Im sure Titleist is helping that cause just to do that. Advertise they are the best....you would be shocked how many those guys use Circle T Putters.
[/quote]


Pretty sure Taylor Made, Callaway, Nike, etc are doing the same thing..... Not saying Titleist is the best, but these guys want to play those clubs, balls, etc
[/quote]


Titleist is either the biggest or the second biggest Manufacturer in the wolrd. I would say #1 but I dont know the numbers. I am sure there is probbly more new Titleist clubs put in pay each year than any
other Manufacturer. If You count Cameron and Vokey and Titlest clubs and balls its Titlesit by far. On tour by far its Tiltleist.
.
[/quote]

[golflifer]

College players play what ever they can get free(know from experience D1 program). Titleist really pushes their College programs where the other manufacturers don't. Titleist has never had the best equipment nor are they innovators in any way, but they know how to market. That's why they dominate.

 

 

ever heard of the Pro V1?.......pretty much changed the landscape of golf balls.

[Dizz]

[quote name='dusts66' timestamp='1314926408' post='3536161']
College players play what ever they can get free(know from experience D1 program). Titleist really pushes their College programs where the other manufacturers don't. Titleist has never had the best equipment nor are they innovators in any way, but they know how to market. That's why they dominate.
[quote name='Dillinger' timestamp='1314495568' post='3524324']
[quote name='wfrogge1' timestamp='1314486125' post='3523985']
[quote name='jbrunone' timestamp='1314465868' post='3523416']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1314460763' post='3523272']
Titleist is the biggest contibutor to college golf. Those players are Ams so there is no money, but there is free equipment.

Never EVER trust those playing numbers as a statement of a product's quality. This is BIG business worth millions. The major OEMs know where to and how to groom product reps (top ams).
[/quote]

+1 atleast half of these guys arnt paying for clubs, Im sure Titleist is helping that cause just to do that. Advertise they are the best....you would be shocked how many those guys use Circle T Putters.
[/quote]


Pretty sure Taylor Made, Callaway, Nike, etc are doing the same thing..... Not saying Titleist is the best, but these guys want to play those clubs, balls, etc
[/quote]


Titleist is either the biggest or the second biggest Manufacturer in the wolrd. I would say #1 but I dont know the numbers. I am sure there is probbly more new Titleist clubs put in pay each year than any
other Manufacturer. If You count Cameron and Vokey and Titlest clubs and balls its Titlesit by far. On tour by far its Tiltleist.
.
[/quote]
[/quote]



Its funny when people make comments like this but when a WRX'er asks the community here which company they would play if every club had to be from said company...Titleist wins every time. There have been 3 of them somewhat recently and Titleist usually wins by a margin.

[Dizz]

[quote name='jmygolf' timestamp='1314921068' post='3535944']
And dont forget that your local pro gets a little kickback into a retirement fund when he is selling Titleist as a staffer. Unless that has changed in the last few years. So there are alot of players out there in clubs all over the country that have Titleist equipment whether than can play it or not. NOT THAT OTHERS HAVENT SOLD FOR THEIR OWN BENEFITS, by the way. But keep these things in mind when thinking on numbers. There are reasons behind other than just "playing what is best."
Golf is a BIG business and it starts on the retail and club levels.


[quote name='BigLeftyinAZ' timestamp='1314460764' post='3523273']
No shock here.This is where and how the brain washing begins. Titleist begins their tactics at the JR levels. It's why you see so many 70 year olds playing the Pro V.
[/quote]
[/quote]



No clue if that has ever happened or not but I don't get any bonus like that and I am a Titleist Staff member. My head pro has been so for 10+ years and gets equipment VERY early before release and he doesn't get that either. And our account does quite a bit of business. I know probably 10-15 more local Titleist staff guys and none get that either. There might be some guys out there at certain clubs but I would guess it has more to do with the club than it does the pro being with Titleist.

[StarFleetGolfer]

[quote name='spacecowboy' timestamp='1314550259' post='3525331']
[quote name='BigLeftyinAZ' timestamp='1314460764' post='3523273']
No shock here.This is where and how the brain washing begins. Titleist begins their tactics at the JR levels. It's why you see so many 70 year olds playing the Pro V.
[/quote]


Agreed, was looking through some photos from the 1950's and all those guys had ProV's. Not a Penta to be found.
[/quote]

[tigerwoodsbeard]

at the canadian junior during registration, titleist give out boxes of pro vs for everyone, 1 or 1x, your choice, they give everyone footjoy gloves, then, on the first tee the next day a guy checks everyones bag to see what clubs they use, ask what ball and glove theyre using too. So, if someone is providing you with free equipment, youre obviously going to use it (i am at least), so then you wonder why is titleist the most played ball by amateurs too, not just because it is awesome, but because its given out for free

[smackygolf]

[quote name='Dizz' timestamp='1314929377' post='3536303']
[quote name='jmygolf' timestamp='1314921068' post='3535944']
And dont forget that your local pro gets a little kickback into a retirement fund when he is selling Titleist as a staffer. Unless that has changed in the last few years. So there are alot of players out there in clubs all over the country that have Titleist equipment whether than can play it or not. NOT THAT OTHERS HAVENT SOLD FOR THEIR OWN BENEFITS, by the way. But keep these things in mind when thinking on numbers. There are reasons behind other than just "playing what is best."
Golf is a BIG business and it starts on the retail and club levels.


[quote name='BigLeftyinAZ' timestamp='1314460764' post='3523273']
No shock here.This is where and how the brain washing begins. Titleist begins their tactics at the JR levels. It's why you see so many 70 year olds playing the Pro V.
[/quote]
[/quote]



No clue if that has ever happened or not but I don't get any bonus like that and I am a Titleist Staff member. My head pro has been so for 10+ years and gets equipment VERY early before release and he doesn't get that either. And our account does quite a bit of business. I know probably 10-15 more local Titleist staff guys and none get that either. There might be some guys out there at certain clubs but I would guess it has more to do with the club than it does the pro being with Titleist.
[/quote]
You are saying Titleist doesn't put a % of the ship-to number into the head pro's PGA retirement account? Wow. He needs to negotiate better. Everyone else is getting it.....

[dusts66]

Pro V1...... check the actual history behind the ball. Titleist was sued by both Bridgestone and Callaway for patent infringement for their Pro V1. They lost both lawsuits but little was published about it. All the other manufactures kind view Titleist as copiers not innovators, but Titleist does a great job of not letting this affect their market through very proactive advertising programs and maintaining market share at all costs.

College players play what ever they can get free(know from experience D1 program). Titleist really pushes their College programs where the other manufacturers don't. Titleist has never had the best equipment nor are they innovators in any way, but they know how to market. That's why they dominate.

 

 

ever heard of the Pro V1?.......pretty much changed the landscape of golf balls.

[golflifer]

Pro V1...... check the actual history behind the ball. Titleist was sued by both Bridgestone and Callaway for patent infringement for their Pro V1. They lost both lawsuits but little was published about it. All the other manufactures kind view Titleist as copiers not innovators, but Titleist does a great job of not letting this affect their market through very proactive advertising programs and maintaining market share at all costs.

College players play what ever they can get free(know from experience D1 program). Titleist really pushes their College programs where the other manufacturers don't. Titleist has never had the best equipment nor are they innovators in any way, but they know how to market. That's why they dominate.

 

 

ever heard of the Pro V1?.......pretty much changed the landscape of golf balls.

 

http://www.golfcrunc...-with-callaway/

You need to check your history. The patents in question were Spalding issued in 2001 and 2003, after the ProV1 was introduced in 2000. Callaway bought Spalding and the patens fell in their lap, as it turned into a desperate cash, market share and attention grab. Titleist won the appeal and the court told Callaway to stop. How has it worked out for Callaway? Not good, look at their numbers....

[Doublebuck]

More club pros play Titleist and promote it. Grass roots level marketing.

[MCoz]

[quote name='golflifer' timestamp='1314548486' post='3525291']
[quote name='MCoz' timestamp='1314516538' post='3524795']
[quote name='duck hook' timestamp='1314488163' post='3524053']
no surprise to me, pro v and vokey's are the best by far, same numbers for the guys who play for a living
[/quote]
Clueless--The Pro V and Vokey's are not even close to being "the best by far". If they were all of the best players in the world would be playing them.
Titleist spends a huge amount of their promo budget on volume. They are the biggest spender on amateur golf, Ping is second. (NIKE invests and owns the schoolyards in Basketball and football) It allows them to get big player numbers (bang) for lesser overall costs (for the buck). The interesting thing is that they "spend" more equipment dollars in terms of giveaways for "elite" or "high visibilty players" (read: high school, college, lead amateurs and selected celebrity types) than any other Golf company.[b] But not counting balls, they get the least return in club sales as a result of this. [/b]But when you consider that their target customer (better players) are getting the stuff for free, they don't need to actually purchase it! I was gifted equipment from them back in the late 90's. I choose to play what worked best for me and it tended to be other OEM's equipment.
Their balls are good and actually have gotten better this year, but they are no better than the "players" balls from Srixon, Callaway, TM, Bridgestone or the new Nike's. [b]Look at today's tournament results coming from the top 125 in the playoffs: TM-1st, Bridgestone-2nd and tie 3rd with Srixon. The top 9 had 4 from TM, 2-Titleist, 2-Bridgestone, and 1-Srixon. If the ProVs were "the best by far", I don't think those players would have exposed themselves to playing an inferior ball.[/b] Titleist will continue to win the ball counts in total numbers because that is their marketing plan. They will sign any tour player to a Ball-shoe-and-glove contract that hasn't a previous agreement with someone else. Although it is a small money deal it gives them numbers (again, Bang-for-the-buck), with that they will provide these players with a hefty free goods deal involving anything from FootJoy and clubs from from Titleist-Vokey-Cameron. Wearing a Titleist hat fattens the deal. Although they are not required to play those clubs (used to include Cobra before that was sold off). Full Staff players (much smaller numbers) are now required and paid to play a full bag of their clubs.
Vokeys are very good wedges especially if you can have them customized to fit your every whim. All of the OEMs are really getting good at customizing wedges. [b]Cleveland Golf still dominates wedge sales.[/b]
[/quote]
You should definitely apply to work for some golf company with all these AMAZING analyzation of the golf market and ROI's.


How can you judge a ball by one week on the PGA Tour? Thats clueless. Titleist has won 6 out of 10, 3 for TM, and 1 from Srixon.


And you might want to check your number on the last one.
[/quote]
What I have reported are facts. My point here is that people want to believe what they want, not what is actually going on in the world.
If Titleist is the "end all" in Collegiate golf then how is it that the NCAA Champions the last two years were one of the few schools that TaylorMade "supported". So by the logic that seems to pervade here, TM is only for the winners, not the others.
Is this stupid? Yes, just as the thought that Titleist is the "best" because they have more "players". That is like saying that Gallo makes the best wine because they are the biggest winery in the world or Budweiser is the best beer made in the world, or Walmart is the best retail company in the world, or GM makes the best cars in the world or on and on and on. And by the logic here, this means that Tiger, Phil, Kaymer, Jason Day, Goosen, Freddy C, Nick Price, A. Kim, Lucas Glover, Cink, Ernie, Darren Clarke, Dustin, Furyk, DL III, Justin Rose, Sergio, Snedeker, Kucher, and countless others are all playing inferior balls and/or equipment.
Sometimes the air around here is a little too thick. All of these major OEMs make really good equipment. Even today most of all of the iron blades trace their beginnings back to early Wilson and MacGregor clubs, that just get tweaked from time to time (the innovations apply to the cavitybacks and game improvement which one could say are variations of the original Pings (as do many of todays non-mallet putters). Some things fit some players better than others. When it comes to drivers TM does a better job than most. Scotty and Callaway seem to fit putters to individual players better than the others. But Scotty has never been a great original designer, that's why his nickname for the first 5-7 years on tour was "Xerox".
Vokey is a great club fitter but all of the OEMs make very good wedges now (most have taken their design cues from the earlier Cleveland Golf, including Callaway which hired Roger Cleveland himself, only Ping uses a different wedge format).
I don't work for anyone in the golf business. I usually have around four different manufacturers in my bag at any one time when looking from top to bottom. I also test nearly all of the new stuff as it (or before it) comes to the marketplace. I play what works best for my game! And that is the facts.

[takingitdeep]

Titleist makes great stuff and market to the better player really well! It always helps to get stuff at PUD