GolfLogix vs GolfShot vs Skycaddie

[Shizeman]

[quote name='Kempi' timestamp='1333477902' post='4640787']
Those Golfshot-users among you: Any of you know whether it is possible to use Golfshot parallel on iPad and iPhone without having to pay twice? And do the two apps synchronize between each other?
[/quote]


You should be able to do that. You can just transfer the app by getting it from a computer that you've sync'd the app too. You won't have to pay twice. The apps will synchronize because its all linked to your account. You can even look at your info online. Hope that helps

[bushy007]

[quote name='Tyrone Tyger' timestamp='1331654176' post='4499031']
BnB, I gotta say, I agree with a few things he said. I've been waiting for SkyGolf to have their smartclub technology for ever, if it ever showed up, I might get an SGx for that.

Sounds like a lot of pent up anger on your part. Not everyone is part of the USGA, and even for those that are, smartphones are considered non-conforming because of other things you COULD do with them. I thought golf was about honor, no? You make a lot of assumptions about him as a player based on his statements of preferring to use a smartphone. Almost makes me wonder if YOU'RE an employee of SkyGolf...

Hmm, especially that, now that I look, I see that you've made 35 posts, 33 of them in the GPS / rangefinders, and all seem to be in support of SkyGolf...
[/quote]
+ another 1 here. Some thing smells fishy. I use golfshot because it's cheap, easy and tracks my stats. It Doesn't get used in official events but as BnB says I must be a "NONCONFORMING" cheat. Everything in my bag is conforming, even though the rules state it doesn't have to be for years. Alot of broad based accusations and incinuations in that rant BnB.

[Primexcel]

Golfshot all the way here. I love their scorecard and stat tracking, especially being able to view your golfshot scorecards and stats online at their website (golfshot.com). Just recently bought the GPS app version for $29.99 on my iphone 4. Had a best buy gift card and used it to get an itunes card.

I have a Bushnell Tour V2 Slope Edition Rangefinder from over a year ago and when comparing to the Golfshot GPS, it's off by a few yards. I really use the Golfshot GPS mainly on the tee box as it gives you lay-up distances as well as distances to fairway bunkers, doglegs, etc. It's really great. For the approach shots or par 3 holes is where I go to my Rangefinder. The combination of having both is really great.

[jons1]

At this point I've had:

SG3 from SkyCaddie
GolfLogix on iPhone
gx3i from leupold

My honest opinion is the following... buy a skycaddie.

here's why. the iPhone is horrible in the sun, and the battery life is generally some what of an issue. The accuracy is questionable as well. other then that, it's pretty cool to use an app. if i'm left between nothing and this, I'd use it no doubt.

the skycaddie was always pretty accurate. I knew distances to everything relevant on the course, something lasers will never be able to do. And the newer models out now are ridiculously good from what I see. You can't possibley have more useful information, and use anything like a laser to get this info. Sure, there's a 2 yard variation from reality... anyone here have a 2 yard variation in their swings? It's a joke... plenty accurate, very fast and easy to use, and lots of great info for course management. Yes, it requires a yearly membership, but, it's also better mapped then some 20 year old kid in India doing etch and sketches on old google maps like the preloaded ones use (and no, that's not an exaggeration as to how that happens).

lasers... well, I have the best out there and here's the scoop. Not always easy to get the distance to the pin. Sometimes you miss the pin, and almost any yardage to a bunker or something is not accurate because you have no solid edge to shoot. Basically, it's a very accurate way to get distance to the flag. Great... but there's a heck of lot more to course strategy then that. For practice they are awesome, and this is where they really shine in my opinion. On the course, unless you are in the middle of the fairway / have clear line of site and playing a flat course, good luck, and you'll only know one thing... how far is the pin. Where that is in relation to bunkers, the depth of the green, where there are ridges/slopes on that green... nope. Fairway bunkers, doglegs, layups to water, etc... eh, not really.

In a perfect world, you'd own both a laser and gps and leave the phone in the car. But budgets being what they are, if you need to save money, use the app and realize it's just not as accurate. If you have $200-400 to spend, then the handicap legal devices in gps and laser come into play, and in my opinion, go with gps or buy both.

[SnowPlow]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1334210600' post='4706194']
At this point I've had:

SG3 from SkyCaddie
GolfLogix on iPhone
gx3i from leupold

My honest opinion is the following... buy a skycaddie.

here's why. the iPhone is horrible in the sun, and the battery life is generally some what of an issue. The accuracy is questionable as well. other then that, it's pretty cool to use an app. if i'm left between nothing and this, I'd use it no doubt.

the skycaddie was always pretty accurate. I knew distances to everything relevant on the course, something lasers will never be able to do. And the newer models out now are ridiculously good from what I see. You can't possibley have more useful information, and use anything like a laser to get this info. Sure, there's a 2 yard variation from reality... anyone here have a 2 yard variation in their swings? It's a joke... plenty accurate, very fast and easy to use, and lots of great info for course management. Yes, it requires a yearly membership, but, it's also better mapped then some 20 year old kid in India doing etch and sketches on old google maps like the preloaded ones use (and no, that's not an exaggeration as to how that happens).

lasers... well, I have the best out there and here's the scoop. Not always easy to get the distance to the pin. Sometimes you miss the pin, and almost any yardage to a bunker or something is not accurate because you have no solid edge to shoot. Basically, it's a very accurate way to get distance to the flag. Great... but there's a heck of lot more to course strategy then that. For practice they are awesome, and this is where they really shine in my opinion. On the course, unless you are in the middle of the fairway / have clear line of site and playing a flat course, good luck, and you'll only know one thing... how far is the pin. Where that is in relation to bunkers, the depth of the green, where there are ridges/slopes on that green... nope. Fairway bunkers, doglegs, layups to water, etc... eh, not really.

In a perfect world, you'd own both a laser and gps and leave the phone in the car. But budgets being what they are, if you need to save money, use the app and realize it's just not as accurate. If you have $200-400 to spend, then the handicap legal devices in gps and laser come into play, and in my opinion, go with gps or buy both.
[/quote]

You do realize that the cartoon pictures Skycaddie uses, as can be seen here ([url="http://www.skygolf.com/products/default.aspx"]http://www.skygolf.c...ts/default.aspx[/url]), utilizes the same "etch and sketch" method as you put it? How else do you think they get them made? The answer of how and by whom may surprise you...

You also make a huge assumption that various companies rely on Google imagery, this is simply false. There are many companies that provide aerial imagery and true satellite imagery. There is a difference between them. In fact, many countries have their own imagery programs and agencies that can be accessed for a fee and they are exquisitely accurate. Google just happens to be one of them and any company who relies solely on that source is missing the boat completely. Many reputable companies have a variety of imagery resources.

I don't doubt your personal experiences and sharing them is what this forum is about. However, there are a multitude of people using Golf apps who post here that state high level of accuracy in comparison to expensive GPS units. I don't think they are making it up. I've read a multitude of reviews and accuracy does not seem to a major defining factor. What may be a factor is that like any hardware, there may be issues with individual GPS chips within a phone. In other words, some may be good and a minority bad. However, that's the same issue that dedicated GPS units have. Some have faulty chips.....that's the reality. Too many people want to blame the app when it may be an issue with their phone. You can ask any retailer what the failure rate out of the box is for your own personal manufacturer of choice for a dedicated unit....again the answer may surprise you.

[dcmidnight]

Just spend a few minutes reading threads here about the atrocious customer service that SkyGolf has. Atrocious It is the reason I sold mine a couple of years ago after not being able to get them to solve a very simple problem. But if you are someone that will never need customer service than this wouldnt be an issue for you.

I've previously used a SkyCaddie and SkyDroid on my Evo. Currently use the UproMX and love it. I have compared it to different versions of SkyCaddies as well as the Bushnell and it shows no appreciable differences. I love the size of the Upro and with the new software update it has been running great. Cant imagine ever getting a unit I had to pay to use every year.

[Swisstrader98]

[quote name='Striker760' timestamp='1330798282' post='4426551']
I use golfshot and love it. Accurate, aerial views, and tracks FIR, % missed short, long, left, right, GIR, putts, putts in regulation, sand saves, scramble %, distance tracking...etc. For $29 I'm very pleased. I use it on my iPad because the screen is so large. Every time I play with a new person there impressed with it.
[/quote]

+1 for Golfshot, but I take away a lot of points based on the fact that there's no auto advance between holes. For such a great app, kind of a drag to have to manually advance each hole.

[Swisstrader98]

[quote name='BirdiesnBogeys' timestamp='1331130535' post='4454531']
I have the SGXW and the screen is never an issue seeing it even in the bright sunlight and wearing polarized glasses. The battery life gets me through 2 rounds on one charge and that is good enough for me. I can't read my iPhone in the bright sunlight as the sun washes out the screen, with or without my sunglasses
[/quote]
I think you've been watching too many kindle commercials where the only knock they have on the amazing iPad is glare when trying to read a book at the pool. Not the reason I bought an ipad and in the case of the iPhone, I have NEVER had a problem reading my Golfshot gPS on my iPhone.

I personally think the handheld sky caddies will go the way of the dinosaur when ppl realize they can have the same functionality on one device. Why carry around another device that needs to be charged up when you can have it all on your iPhone? And for those who say battery life sucks, they simply have no clue about how to make their iPhones run more efficiently w wifi off, push off, lowering brightness, simply clicking the sleep button on the phone between shots or worse case purchasing a backup battery wich costs less than $30 now.

Not sure how ANYONE can justify the crazy costs of a sky caddy or some of the other systems out there when Golfshot costs a mere $29.95 and is more functionally rich in most cases.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

But if you did buy an e-reader to read at the pool the Kindle is far better, not to mention having superior battery life.

While i enjoy my ipad2, for those that don't gulp apple koolaid, we realize they have limitations.

[Swisstrader98]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1335111265' post='4767906']
But if you did buy an e-reader to read at the pool the Kindle is far better, not to mention having superior battery life.

While i enjoy my ipad2, for those that don't gulp apple koolaid, we realize they have limitations.
[/quote]
10 hours of battery life from my iPad Is more than i could have ever imagined or wanted. I guess if your only need from a reader is to read at poolside, the kindle is fine. Bought one for my mom and it really is "your mothers device." if you want an Internet powerhouse and a ton of great apps and music and a reader, get an iPad for G-ds sake.

Try to use your kindle for any golf apps

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='Swisstrader98' timestamp='1335109256' post='4767750']
[quote name='BirdiesnBogeys' timestamp='1331130535' post='4454531']
I have the SGXW and the screen is never an issue seeing it even in the bright sunlight and wearing polarized glasses. The battery life gets me through 2 rounds on one charge and that is good enough for me. I can't read my iPhone in the bright sunlight as the sun washes out the screen, with or without my sunglasses
[/quote]
I think you've been watching too many kindle commercials where the only knock they have on the amazing iPad is glare when trying to read a book at the pool. Not the reason I bought an ipad and in the case of the iPhone, I have NEVER had a problem reading my Golfshot gPS on my iPhone.

I personally think the handheld sky caddies will go the way of the dinosaur when ppl realize they can have the same functionality on one device. Why carry around another device that needs to be charged up when you can have it all on your iPhone? And for those who say battery life sucks, they simply have no clue about how to make their iPhones run more efficiently w wifi off, push off, lowering brightness, simply clicking the sleep button on the phone between shots or worse case purchasing a backup battery wich costs less than $30 now.

Not sure how ANYONE can justify the crazy costs of a sky caddy or some of the other systems out there when Golfshot costs a mere $29.95 and is more functionally rich in most cases.
[/quote]


You want justification of the Skycaddie over iPhone apps.

1) Conforms to USGA rules!
2) Readable in bright sunlight. I drink the Apple koolaid and still admit the iPhone screen washes out in bright sun and difficult to read with sunglasses.
3) More accurate. The quality of the Skycaddie GPS receiver is far more accurate than the iPhones.
4) Better maps. Skygolf walks the course providing much better information and more accurate yardages.
5) I can make it over two rounds with a SGXw and less than one round with an iPhone without an additional battery.
6) Conforms to USGA rules!

The iPhone is a great phone and does a lot of things good to great. And when it coms to golf GPS, it is good at what it does. For the occasional golfer that does not care about a handicap, it is fine. But Skycaddie is great at what it does and I want great when I am on the course.

[jons1]

[quote name='Swisstrader98' timestamp='1335109256' post='4767750']
[quote name='BirdiesnBogeys' timestamp='1331130535' post='4454531']
I have the SGXW and the screen is never an issue seeing it even in the bright sunlight and wearing polarized glasses. The battery life gets me through 2 rounds on one charge and that is good enough for me. I can't read my iPhone in the bright sunlight as the sun washes out the screen, with or without my sunglasses
[/quote]
I think you've been watching too many kindle commercials where the only knock they have on the amazing iPad is glare when trying to read a book at the pool. Not the reason I bought an ipad and in the case of the iPhone, I have NEVER had a problem reading my Golfshot gPS on my iPhone.

I personally think the handheld sky caddies will go the way of the dinosaur when ppl realize they can have the same functionality on one device. Why carry around another device that needs to be charged up when you can have it all on your iPhone? And for those who say battery life sucks, they simply have no clue about how to make their iPhones run more efficiently w wifi off, push off, lowering brightness, simply clicking the sleep button on the phone between shots or worse case purchasing a backup battery wich costs less than $30 now.

Not sure how ANYONE can justify the crazy costs of a sky caddy or some of the other systems out there when Golfshot costs a mere $29.95 and is more functionally rich in most cases.
[/quote]

because the gps on phones are not as accurate.... simple.

[Swisstrader98]

Are you guys aware that most smartphones have a compass or an app that could be purchased that contains a compass? Did you know that you can use your watch as a compass? In this interpretation, 90% of all golfers out there are in breach, not just iPhone users using Golfshot. I know there are some who preach about leaving their phones in their lockers, but what if a buddy is having a heart attack, or you need a ruling from either a golf official or the pro shop, or what if the group ahead of you is playing at a snails pace.

The ruling on an iPhone being nonconforming is just a bunch of hooey and while I would not want to have my lovely iPhone switched on if I were Freddie playing at The Masters, I have yet to see someone DQ'd for having an iPhone in a local tournament or anywhere else for that matter. The USGA and the R&A are seriously confused and behind on how to treat the whole issue. In fact, Decision 14-3/16 seems to contradict this joint statement where it states; "The use of an electronic device such as a mobile phone, hand-held computer, calculator, television or radio is not of itself a breach of Rule 14-3."

I also get a kick out of ppl who say how much more accurate sky caddies are vs the golfshot app. I have buddies who have the sky caddie while I have the Golfshot app and the most they ever differ is 2-3 yards. Not enough for me to cost justify paying between $250-350 plus subscription fees for the sky caddie vs $29 for the iphone app.

p.s. Have you seen the golfscape app? Absolutely crazy with augmented reality!! Like having a video game on the course

[Swisstrader98]

Sorry, meant to paste Golfscape video...makes some other devices out there look a bit antiquated...oh, also forgot to mention all the cool stats I can track on GIR, fairways hit, number of putts, etc in addition to keeping an automated scorecard with Golfshot. I might be wrong, but unsure if other devices can do and at 1/10th the cost!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKiMhl2DDG8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='Swisstrader98' timestamp='1335123131' post='4768692']
Sorry, meant to paste Golfscape video...makes some other devices out there look a bit antiquated...oh, also forgot to mention all the cool stats I can track on GIR, fairways hit, number of putts, etc in addition to keeping an automated scorecard with Golfshot. I might be wrong, but unsure if other devices can do and at 1/10th the cost!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKiMhl2DDG8&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.c...be_gdata_player[/url]
[/quote]

While I do find that very, very cool, it's also overkill and frankly the overview of a hole is much more useful in my opinion. Also the last thing I want to have to do is pull out my smartphone and hold it up in from of me every time I want to get yardage. I see this as something that will slow down play.... the last thing golf needs.

[dcmidnight]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1335125382' post='4768850']
[quote name='Swisstrader98' timestamp='1335123131' post='4768692']
Sorry, meant to paste Golfscape video...makes some other devices out there look a bit antiquated...oh, also forgot to mention all the cool stats I can track on GIR, fairways hit, number of putts, etc in addition to keeping an automated scorecard with Golfshot. I might be wrong, but unsure if other devices can do and at 1/10th the cost!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKiMhl2DDG8&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.c...be_gdata_player[/url]
[/quote]

While I do find that very, very cool, it's also overkill and frankly the overview of a hole is much more useful in my opinion. Also the last thing I want to have to do is pull out my smartphone and hold it up in from of me every time I want to get yardage. I see this as something that will slow down play.... the last thing golf needs.
[/quote]
Ugh, exactly. I can just imagine someone sitting there like an idiot holding their phone up and waving it around.

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='Swisstrader98' timestamp='1335122832' post='4768668']
Are you guys aware that most smartphones have a compass or an app that could be purchased that contains a compass? Did you know that you can use your watch as a compass? In this interpretation, 90% of all golfers out there are in breach, not just iPhone users using Golfshot. I know there are some who preach about leaving their phones in their lockers, but what if a buddy is having a heart attack, or you need a ruling from either a golf official or the pro shop, or what if the group ahead of you is playing at a snails pace.

The ruling on an iPhone being nonconforming is just a bunch of hooey and while I would not want to have my lovely iPhone switched on if I were Freddie playing at The Masters, I have yet to see someone DQ'd for having an iPhone in a local tournament or anywhere else for that matter. The USGA and the R&A are seriously confused and behind on how to treat the whole issue. In fact, Decision 14-3/16 seems to contradict this joint statement where it states; "The use of an electronic device such as a mobile phone, hand-held computer, calculator, television or radio is not of itself a breach of Rule 14-3."

I also get a kick out of ppl who say how much more accurate sky caddies are vs the golfshot app. I have buddies who have the sky caddie while I have the Golfshot app and the most they ever differ is 2-3 yards. Not enough for me to cost justify paying between $250-350 plus subscription fees for the sky caddie vs $29 for the iphone app.

p.s. Have you seen the golfscape app? Absolutely crazy with augmented reality!! Like having a video game on the course
[/quote]

Are you serious? This issue has been discussed for at least the past two years. Use the search tool.

You can give all the excuses you want, until the USGA changes their minds, smartphone apps are non-conforming. Period. As far as people being DQ, it has happened when the smartphone apps first came out. At the club I belonged to last year, the rules were clear, use a smartphone app and you are DQ. Also no one used one for regular rounds because they knew that if they submitted a score for handicap, they would also be DQ from tournaments.

The companies that make these apps are in it for one thing. Quick and easy money. They know there are cheapskates that are too cheap to to buy a dedicated, conforming GPS or conforming laser. They are laughing all of the way to the bank.

[SnowPlow]

[quote name='TM_HOYER' timestamp='1335131907' post='4769368']
[quote name='Swisstrader98' timestamp='1335122832' post='4768668']
Are you guys aware that most smartphones have a compass or an app that could be purchased that contains a compass? Did you know that you can use your watch as a compass? In this interpretation, 90% of all golfers out there are in breach, not just iPhone users using Golfshot. I know there are some who preach about leaving their phones in their lockers, but what if a buddy is having a heart attack, or you need a ruling from either a golf official or the pro shop, or what if the group ahead of you is playing at a snails pace.

The ruling on an iPhone being nonconforming is just a bunch of hooey and while I would not want to have my lovely iPhone switched on if I were Freddie playing at The Masters, I have yet to see someone DQ'd for having an iPhone in a local tournament or anywhere else for that matter. The USGA and the R&A are seriously confused and behind on how to treat the whole issue. In fact, Decision 14-3/16 seems to contradict this joint statement where it states; "The use of an electronic device such as a mobile phone, hand-held computer, calculator, television or radio is not of itself a breach of Rule 14-3."

I also get a kick out of ppl who say how much more accurate sky caddies are vs the golfshot app. I have buddies who have the sky caddie while I have the Golfshot app and the most they ever differ is 2-3 yards. Not enough for me to cost justify paying between $250-350 plus subscription fees for the sky caddie vs $29 for the iphone app.

p.s. Have you seen the golfscape app? Absolutely crazy with augmented reality!! Like having a video game on the course
[/quote]

Are you serious? This issue has been discussed for at least the past two years. Use the search tool.

You can give all the excuses you want, until the USGA changes their minds, smartphone apps are non-conforming. Period. As far as people being DQ, it has happened when the smartphone apps first came out. At the club I belonged to last year, the rules were clear, use a smartphone app and you are DQ. Also no one used one for regular rounds because they knew that if they submitted a score for handicap, they would also be DQ from tournaments.

The companies that make these apps are in it for one thing. Quick and easy money. They know there are cheapskates that are too cheap to to buy a dedicated, conforming GPS or conforming laser. They are laughing all of the way to the bank.
[/quote]

Skycaddie had absolutely no problem selling and profiteering from their non-conforming devices prior to the rule changes in 2006, I don't blame companies for using the exact same philosophy. If they have an issue with it...then they are hypocrites.

Yes they are in it to make money and make profit, they are fraction of the cost, sales of dedicated GPS devices are plummeting, I have spoken to many retailers and they tell the same story. The technology of GPS chips within smartphones has improved drastically and will continue to do so and I think people are realizing the gig is up. There will always be hardcore dedicated GPS users who won't use smartphones but by the same token far more people will never go near a dedicated unit because they can get an app for pennies on the dollar. Use a new droid phone and an application like Orux maps, it's just as accurate as the GPS chip in a Garmin or Magellan. Use an app like Blackstar on the newer Blackberry cell phones and again the GPS accuracy is comparable, the GPS chip in the older iphones was terrible, it has greatly improved especially with the new 4 series.

I think Skycaddie is decent product probably one of the better GPS units......but the reality is technology and software has caught up with them.....I'm sure they will figure something out.

[jons1]

[quote name='SnowPlow' timestamp='1335137212' post='4769820']
[quote name='TM_HOYER' timestamp='1335131907' post='4769368']
[quote name='Swisstrader98' timestamp='1335122832' post='4768668']
Are you guys aware that most smartphones have a compass or an app that could be purchased that contains a compass? Did you know that you can use your watch as a compass? In this interpretation, 90% of all golfers out there are in breach, not just iPhone users using Golfshot. I know there are some who preach about leaving their phones in their lockers, but what if a buddy is having a heart attack, or you need a ruling from either a golf official or the pro shop, or what if the group ahead of you is playing at a snails pace.

The ruling on an iPhone being nonconforming is just a bunch of hooey and while I would not want to have my lovely iPhone switched on if I were Freddie playing at The Masters, I have yet to see someone DQ'd for having an iPhone in a local tournament or anywhere else for that matter. The USGA and the R&A are seriously confused and behind on how to treat the whole issue. In fact, Decision 14-3/16 seems to contradict this joint statement where it states; "The use of an electronic device such as a mobile phone, hand-held computer, calculator, television or radio is not of itself a breach of Rule 14-3."

I also get a kick out of ppl who say how much more accurate sky caddies are vs the golfshot app. I have buddies who have the sky caddie while I have the Golfshot app and the most they ever differ is 2-3 yards. Not enough for me to cost justify paying between $250-350 plus subscription fees for the sky caddie vs $29 for the iphone app.

p.s. Have you seen the golfscape app? Absolutely crazy with augmented reality!! Like having a video game on the course
[/quote]

Are you serious? This issue has been discussed for at least the past two years. Use the search tool.

You can give all the excuses you want, until the USGA changes their minds, smartphone apps are non-conforming. Period. As far as people being DQ, it has happened when the smartphone apps first came out. At the club I belonged to last year, the rules were clear, use a smartphone app and you are DQ. Also no one used one for regular rounds because they knew that if they submitted a score for handicap, they would also be DQ from tournaments.

The companies that make these apps are in it for one thing. Quick and easy money. They know there are cheapskates that are too cheap to to buy a dedicated, conforming GPS or conforming laser. They are laughing all of the way to the bank.
[/quote]

Skycaddie had absolutely no problem selling and profiteering from their non-conforming devices prior to the rule changes in 2006, I don't blame companies for using the exact same philosophy. If they have an issue with it...then they are hypocrites.

Yes they are in it to make money and make profit, they are fraction of the cost, sales of dedicated GPS devices are plummeting, I have spoken to many retailers and they tell the same story. The technology of GPS chips within smartphones has improved drastically and will continue to do so and I think people are realizing the gig is up. There will always be hardcore dedicated GPS users who won't use smartphones but by the same token far more people will never go near a dedicated unit because they can get an app for pennies on the dollar. Use a new droid phone and an application like Orux maps, it's just as accurate as the GPS chip in a Garmin or Magellan. Use an app like Blackstar on the newer Blackberry cell phones and again the GPS accuracy is comparable, the GPS chip in the older iphones was terrible, it has greatly improved especially with the new 4 series.

I think Skycaddie is decent product probably one of the better GPS units......but the reality is technology and software has caught up with them.....I'm sure they will figure something out.
[/quote]




I have the iphone 4s. they aren't accurate. need proof, do almost anything involving the gps and tell me it shows you within 1 yard of where you are standing or driving... sorry, it doesn't. I dont care if where talking google earth or golflogix or otherwise, the gps on phones were never designed to provide you that kind of accuracy. The dedicated gps devices are more accurate because they actually communicate with 4-5 satellites to get as accurate a position as possible, and using very accurate golf mappings from aerial photography.

the cell phones don't really work this way. they use "assisted gps" which means the phone actually calls a computer server that attempts to relay information to a satellite to determine your position, and where cell towers are located has a bearing on the accuracy of this entire transaction of data. Basically, comparing this process to a dedicated gps device is subject to error... like at least 10 yards in many cases.

There are people that wont even use dedicated gps devices because they're not considered accurate enough, so they use lasers, so you can only imagine how poor the phones are at providing accurate yardages. Your phones can easily be off by 10 yards. Not a big deal when driving a car, but on a golf course, totally useless unless your error is 3 yards or less imo. The other obvious issues with using your phone for this includes battery life, although it's gotten better, and screen glare.

[Swisstrader98]

[quote name='TM_HOYER' timestamp='1335131907' post='4769368']

Are you serious? This issue has been discussed for at least the past two years. Use the search tool.

You can give all the excuses you want, until the USGA changes their minds, smartphone apps are non-conforming. Period. As far as people being DQ, it has happened when the smartphone apps first came out. At the club I belonged to last year, the rules were clear, use a smartphone app and you are DQ. Also no one used one for regular rounds because they knew that if they submitted a score for handicap, they would also be DQ from tournaments.

The companies that make these apps are in it for one thing. Quick and easy money. They know there are cheapskates that are too cheap to to buy a dedicated, conforming GPS or conforming laser. They are laughing all of the way to the bank.
[/quote]]

You need to enter the 21st century dude! I heard the same crap arguments just a few short years ago from ppl who argued that GPS devices should be banned and that the USGA would never approve such devices. NEWSFLASH: they did! And the same will happens with smartphones and smartphones apps.

Also, why is it so shocking for you to think that these companies are in it "to make money"?? The golfing community is DEMANDING these apps and thats why theyre making money and that's why the GPS hardware manufacturers are having to rethink their overall business strategies and that's why some have recently announced that they're now in the software business.

C'mon son, get a clue!

[dcmidnight]

[quote name='TM_HOYER' timestamp='1335131907' post='4769368']
The companies that make these apps are in it for one thing. Quick and easy money. They know there are cheapskates that are too cheap to to buy a dedicated, conforming GPS or conforming laser. They are laughing all of the way to the bank.
[/quote]
LOL are you serious? Please show me one golf company that is not in it to make quick and easy money. How much do you really think that $100 graphite shaft costs to make? Please...

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='Swisstrader98' timestamp='1335139580' post='4770038']

You need to enter the 21st century dude! I heard the same crap arguments just a few short years ago from ppl who argued that GPS devices should be banned and that the USGA would never approve such devices. NEWSFLASH: they did! And the same will happens with smartphones and smartphones apps.

Also, why is it so shocking for you to think that these companies are in it "to make money"?? The golfing community is DEMANDING these apps and thats why theyre making money and that's why the GPS hardware manufacturers are having to rethink their overall business strategies and that's why some have recently announced that they're now in the software business.

C'mon son, get a clue!
[/quote]


I have a clue and am in the 21st Century. I bought my first iPhone on the second day they were available. I am the guy tech firms love because I buy items before they become popular or people find out it is a crap product. All companies are in it to make money but there are a lot of people and companies that write iPhone apps to make a quick buck. I took a look at Golfshot when it came out. It was deleted after a couple rounds because it provided bad yardages, it was slow, and I could not even get through a round before the battery was drained. When it came to the quality of the yardages, my Skycaddie SG3 was better and faster. The companies that sell golf GPS apps are in for the quick buck because they know there are people too cheap to spend at least $100 for a conforming golf GPS.

As far as accuracy, why do the major GPS map companies make a dock for the iPhone? Because the GPS built into it is not accurate enough and they provided a dock with an antenna and a GPS receiver that can provide the necessary accuracy. The iPhone is a great product. But there was also a lot of compromises used to have everything fit and increase battery life.

[jons1]

I think people are confused about how phones actually use locations services. I have a feeling the average Joe out there thinks their cell phones do the same things as dedicated GPS devices, and they dont. Cell phones use A-GPS ("Assisted GPS") which is different. Your phones actually relay information to a computer server which trys to figure out where you are based on the cell towers, and then send that information to a satellite to provide your location. Sorry if I'm confusing a step here techno geeks, but the bottomline is, they are like 4-5 times less accurate then the dedicated GPS devices that actually link to 4-5 satellites to pin point your position. There's really no comparison. smart phones weren't designed to have the level of accuracy needed to play golf, so the apps, although great for stats and getting a general idea of the distance, are not in the same league as the skycaddie. That's more then personal opinion, that's a fact. I'm not knocking anyone that uses the apps, I have the golflogix myself, but it's a joke to compare these imo if you know how cell phones work. Perhaps in the future this will be different, but that's the deal right now. I don't know, maybe we should just start walking off yardages from markers that were lasered to the center of greens again... the horror...

[SnowPlow]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1335145002' post='4770728']
I think people are confused about how phones actually use locations services. I have a feeling the average Joe out there thinks their cell phones do the same things as dedicated GPS devices, and they dont. Cell phones use A-GPS ("Assisted GPS") which is different. Your phones actually relay information to a computer server which trys to figure out where you are based on the cell towers, and then send that information to a satellite to provide your location. Sorry if I'm confusing a step here techno geeks, but the bottomline is, they are like 4-5 times less accurate then the dedicated GPS devices that actually link to 4-5 satellites to pin point your position. There's really no comparison. smart phones weren't designed to have the level of accuracy needed to play golf, so the apps, although great for stats and getting a general idea of the distance, are not in the same league as the skycaddie. That's more then personal opinion, that's a fact. I'm not knocking anyone that uses the apps, I have the golflogix myself, but it's a joke to compare these imo if you know how cell phones work. Perhaps in the future this will be different, but that's the deal right now. I don't know, maybe we should just start walking off yardages from markers that were lasered to the center of greens again... the horror...
[/quote]

I don't doubt your personal experience so I hope you don't mind me sharing mine. I have field tested various GPS units over the last few years on various continents and more recently have been testing the accuracy of GPS within smart phones. I don't work in the field so my testing may be too rudimentary for some.

I'll start by saying that not all smart phones are created equal. I decided to record the longitude and latitude of 10 points using 2 dedicated GPS units and different smart phones including Blackberry, Droid and iPhone. I did each of the ten points sequentially and with one GPS device at a time and stood at each point for 8 seconds, I recorded the co-ordinates. I found very little variance, all were within 4 yards. Now I'm not saying that is perfect but how can you explain my decimal degree readings being so so similar to dedicated units? Interestingly, regarding the iPhone, the accuracy did change with two different apps, I found GPS Kit by Grafa, to be more accurate. I'm also not discounting the fact that the same smart phones can vary in accuracy depending on carrier. Certain carriers can degrade accuracy by using their own Navigation applications, Telus did this in Canada. Without question I found the iphone the least accurate but not anything close to 10 yards

I don't want to appear argumentative but how can you explain 100's of reviews I have read on Golfshot and GolfLogix in both the Android market and iTunes where people say they are generally within 2-3 yards of markers. How can you explain, even on this forum, many people stating a high accuracy level? Are they all working for these companies or are they just liars? I have read reviews where some have said their readings are off by over 10 yards but for every one of these there are about 10 reviews saying readings they are accurate. Obviously I'm not getting into the GPS versus laser debate since that's a given in my opinion. If anything I think the lag time for yardages can sometimes be an issue. As I said, I don't doubt your personal experiences but how do you explain that of others?

[jons1]

the phones are getting better, but i've read documentation on testing done where dedicated vs iphone were compared, and the iphone was consistently 3-5 times further off actual. Like for example, lets say garmin was 1 yard, and iphone was 5 yards. And let's face it, the average golfer probably wouldn't even recognize these kind of distance variations. If I'm a 18 handicap, play golf 12-15 times a year, casual non handicap keeping golfer... heck ya I'm going with the $20 app. If I'm a player that plays more often, demands a little more out of my game, I need/want to keep a handicap, then I want the best of the best... and to be honest, that usually means going with a laser as well because distance variation is just not acceptable. I don't know, I think the SGXW is a sweet device that works better then the golf apps but you can't beat the price points of the apps for what you get.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1335145002' post='4770728']
I think people are confused about how phones actually use locations services. I have a feeling the average Joe out there thinks their cell phones do the same things as dedicated GPS devices, and they dont. Cell phones use A-GPS ("Assisted GPS") which is different. Your phones actually relay information to a computer server which trys to figure out where you are based on the cell towers, and then send that information to a satellite to provide your location. Sorry if I'm confusing a step here techno geeks, but the bottomline is, they are like 4-5 times less accurate then the dedicated GPS devices that actually link to 4-5 satellites to pin point your position. There's really no comparison. smart phones weren't designed to have the level of accuracy needed to play golf, so the apps, although great for stats and getting a general idea of the distance, are not in the same league as the skycaddie. That's more then personal opinion, that's a fact. I'm not knocking anyone that uses the apps, I have the golflogix myself, but it's a joke to compare these imo if you know how cell phones work. Perhaps in the future this will be different, but that's the deal right now. I don't know, maybe we should just start walking off yardages from markers that were lasered to the center of greens again... the horror...
[/quote]

You are partly correct. To function AGPS does require the geolocation services via the cellular network. AGPS helps the GPS in the phone locate itself more quickly upon initial read of the satellite network-- for instance when you leave an underground parking garage where you would not have been able to get satellite signals. AGPS also helps assist locating the phone when it doesn't have the ability to lock onto satellites, like when you are inside. However to clarify your statement--- if a modern smartphone has a clear view of the sky, then AGPS really serves no purpose once satellites are locked, and nor does the phones GPS receiver need the cellular network to locate itself.

For instance I just disconnected my phone completely from the cellular network and it still returns accurate lat/lon and I'm locked onto at least 7 satellites. (FYI I have an android HTC Incredible 2)

Does that make sense?

Also I have no idea if the phone GPS chip is as accurate as a dedicated GPS. I suppose that varies from device to device and gets better with each new model. And since I'm hopelessly geeky, I will have to run my own phone GPS accuracy test soon.

[SnowPlow]

From the Iphone user guide: Unfortunately what I can't seem to find is how many satellites it links to.


[b]About location precision or accuracy[/b]
Depending on your device and available services, Location Services uses a combination of cellular, Wi-Fi, and GPS to determine your location. If you're not within a clear line of sight to GPS satellites, your device can determine your location using Wi-Fi[sup]3[/sup]. If you're not in range of any Wi-Fi, your device can determine your location using cellular towers.

[SnowPlow]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1335148209' post='4771126']
[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1335145002' post='4770728']
I think people are confused about how phones actually use locations services. I have a feeling the average Joe out there thinks their cell phones do the same things as dedicated GPS devices, and they dont. Cell phones use A-GPS ("Assisted GPS") which is different. Your phones actually relay information to a computer server which trys to figure out where you are based on the cell towers, and then send that information to a satellite to provide your location. Sorry if I'm confusing a step here techno geeks, but the bottomline is, they are like 4-5 times less accurate then the dedicated GPS devices that actually link to 4-5 satellites to pin point your position. There's really no comparison. smart phones weren't designed to have the level of accuracy needed to play golf, so the apps, although great for stats and getting a general idea of the distance, are not in the same league as the skycaddie. That's more then personal opinion, that's a fact. I'm not knocking anyone that uses the apps, I have the golflogix myself, but it's a joke to compare these imo if you know how cell phones work. Perhaps in the future this will be different, but that's the deal right now. I don't know, maybe we should just start walking off yardages from markers that were lasered to the center of greens again... the horror...
[/quote]

You are partly correct. To function AGPS does require the geolocation services via the cellular network. AGPS helps the GPS in the phone locate itself more quickly upon initial read of the satellite network-- for instance when you leave an underground parking garage where you would not have been able to get satellite signals. AGPS also helps assist locating the phone when it doesn't have the ability to lock onto satellites, like when you are inside. However to clarify your statement--- if a modern smartphone has a clear view of the sky, then AGPS really serves no purpose once satellites are locked, and nor does the phones GPS receiver need the cellular network to locate itself.

For instance I just disconnected my phone completely from the cellular network and it still returns accurate lat/lon and I'm locked onto at least 7 satellites. (FYI I have an android HTC Incredible 2)

Does that make sense?

Also I have no idea if the phone GPS chip is as accurate as a dedicated GPS. I suppose that varies from device to device and gets better with each new model. And since I'm hopelessly geeky, I will have to run my own phone GPS accuracy test soon.
[/quote]

Just download some app like orux Maps or something similar, walk to a few points, pause for few seconds and record the lon/lats. Assuming you are living in an area with Geo-referenced global orthorectified imagery ( Google Earth would be easiest)....see how your points line up. Just remember what "landmarks" you stood at.

[jons1]

yeah, when i use google earth with the iphone 4s, sorry, it's not accurate to a yard or two. maybe 5-7 yards. skygolf says they have the first sub meter gps unit for golf. if that's true, that's 5 times more accurate.

[Swisstrader98]

Funny stuff on the "not as accurate" front. No need for any fancy studies or to turn this into a gear head techno wiz discussion. Simply go out on the course as I have with a couple buddies and test your Golfshot against their Skycaddie for accuracy. I've done it for multiple rounds and most times they are within 2-3 yards of each other and more often, they are dead on one another. I've NEVER seen a case of my Golfshot being 5-10 yards off or something even close.

At 1/10th the price of any of the GPS devices and with no yearly subscription fees, you'd be crazy NOT to buy the Apple or Android apps that are now available. And to the guy who says the devices are slow, I have zero issue with this...on my walk from the pro shop to the first tee I'm able to load up a course I've never played before. Each time I get to my ball, my device takes about a nanosecond to find where I am...no issue.