Proper Length Fitting - how it needs to be done

[tpcdeere]

If I am playing an iron shaft 1" long, should I definitely consider a lightweight shaft ?

[HighlandLaird]

If I am playing an iron shaft 1" long, should I definitely consider a lightweight shaft ?

 

Yes, because lighter shafts always reduce the swingweight.

I use slightly longer shafts in my irons and have gone to 90 gram (uncut) Apollo Spectre Lite shafts which means the clubs no longer feel "clumsy".

[Stuart_G]

Yes, because lighter shafts always reduce the swingweight.

 

Actually, sorry but no they don't always. Some do, but not all of them. In some cases there are even lighter shafts that SW heavier than heavier weight shafts. The particular balance point of the shaft and how the designers distribute the weight is as important - if not more important - than just the static weight of the shaft.

[TLT_Dan]

Would one keep a roughly 1/2 degree increment in lie angle using length increments like this or would the lie angle increment be altered as a result?

 

If you grip your clubs - all - at full length - then with the 1/2 degree lie change you will notice that the long irons become too to up. This is an error close to industry wide. With a 3/8 length increment and a 1 degree lie change / club you will be much closer to having a consistent lie when addressing at full length. many players find their long irons too long - and their short irons too short. This can correct that with improved contact and improved directional control.

 

follow up question to your post; are you suggesting that 1/2 degree lie increments is or isn't good for 3/8" iron length increments. Please elaborate. I have mine currently at standard lie which is about 1/2 degree increments...

 

The math works out far better with a 1 degree lie angle change for a 3/8" length increment. Your current longer irons would still go upright if you stay with 1/2" length increments.

 

So if your wedges are good at - say 64 lie and 36 inch length, then by the time you get to your 3 iron at a 3/8" increment the 3 will still be slightly too upright even though you have made a length adjustment. If we assume the 1/2" increment your 3 will be 39 1/2 inches, where a 3/8 increment will put the 3 iron at 38 5/8'ths. So the length increment is now mathematically sound if related to a 1 degree lie change down to a 57 degree lie 3 iron.

 

All this is assuming your wedge is correct.

[kooch1221]

MODS, could you please sticky this topic? With amount of threads generated regarding length questions I think it woul be helpful to have it at the top of the posts for this forum category.

[trying2scratch]

+1,000 this needs a sticky for sure!!! So much good info that can really help a lot of people.

 

One thing I didn't see here, but is an awesome reference tool (maybe added to the first post on this thread?). It will be a must have for the DIY'r. Here is the chart from Tom, as listed in the article below, you have to scroll to the bottom of the page for the section titled:

 

"The “How-To” of Professional Clubfitting – First in a Series – Club Length"

 

http://wishongolf.com/etech/archive/2009-2/august-2009/

 

 

 

It's been a game changer for me. Hope it helps others out as well.

[AMATEUR_GOLFER79]

So the question is, if I want to go to 43 1/2 inch driver shaft length. (Playing length) do I go to a heavier 80+ gram shaft to fix the swing weight issue? Is there anything else I should consider like a shaft that has a higher launch,?

[Stuart_G]

So the question is, if I want to go to 43 1/2 inch driver shaft length. (Playing length) do I go to a heavier 80+ gram shaft to fix the swing weight issue? Is there anything else I should consider like a shaft that has a higher launch,?

 

A heavier shaft wont always impact the SW the same. Depends a lot on the specific balance point of the shaft. However, going to a heavier shaft (and heavier static weight) is one possible way to deal with the issues of shortening the playing length but keep in mind that shaft weight (and total club weight) is a different spec from the swing weight (or head weight). The two are coupled but changing one is not the same as changing the other. Only way to know what will work best for you is to try different options and see how they impact the results.

[TomWishon]

So the question is, if I want to go to 43 1/2 inch driver shaft length. (Playing length) do I go to a heavier 80+ gram shaft to fix the swing weight issue? Is there anything else I should consider like a shaft that has a higher launch,?

 

No. Regardless of the length, you choose the shaft weight that best fits your swing tempo, transition force, strength and your preference for whether you have liked heavier or lighter total weight clubs. For the swingweight, or rather the head weight feel problem that comes from cutting an existing driver down in length, you simply have to add weight back to the head to bring the head weight up to a point where you sense that it is not too light nor too heavy when you start the downswing and release the club to impact.

 

When cutting a lot off an existing driver, this can be a problem to get as much weight back into the head as you may need to find this point of enough head weight feel. Some guys are fine with just using lead tape anywhere on the head that it does not cause you to be visually distracted looking down at the head. Others cannot deal with lead tape on the head so they have to find a clubmaker skilled at being able to inject hot melt glue inside the head to raise the weight, followed by plugging the hole.

 

And then of course in the end if the loft and face angle in addition to the length are not perfectly fit to you, then it is better to be custom fit for a whole new driver where all these specs can be fit from scratch.

[cane700]

Great info in this thread. I was wondering how do you gap a set's playing lengths when a shorter club is needed. Say for example someone needs a 1/2 inch shorter club.

[TLT_Dan]

Great info in this thread. I was wondering how do you gap a set's playing lengths when a shorter club is needed. Say for example someone needs a 1/2 inch shorter club.

 

Basically you should just build all your wedges to the 9 iron length and lie. This will stop the clubs from getting too short and allow you a single address position for all these clubs.

[cane700]

Great info in this thread. I was wondering how do you gap a set's playing lengths when a shorter club is needed. Say for example someone needs a 1/2 inch shorter club.

 

Basically you should just build all your wedges to the 9 iron length and lie. This will stop the clubs from getting too short and allow you a single address position for all these clubs.

thanks for that info. What about 3 and 4 iron? Is it wise to go a little shorter than .5in with the long irons?

[TLT_Dan]

Great info in this thread. I was wondering how do you gap a set's playing lengths when a shorter club is needed. Say for example someone needs a 1/2 inch shorter club.

 

Basically you should just build all your wedges to the 9 iron length and lie. This will stop the clubs from getting too short and allow you a single address position for all these clubs.

thanks for that info. What about 3 and 4 iron? Is it wise to go a little shorter than .5in with the long irons?

 

You need to play the length of club that fits you, so if this requires the 3 and 4 to be more than 1/2 inch short then so be it. You want every club to fit right for length and each clubs individual lie angle.

[cane700]

Great info in this thread. I was wondering how do you gap a set's playing lengths when a shorter club is needed. Say for example someone needs a 1/2 inch shorter club.

 

Basically you should just build all your wedges to the 9 iron length and lie. This will stop the clubs from getting too short and allow you a single address position for all these clubs.

thanks for that info. What about 3 and 4 iron? Is it wise to go a little shorter than .5in with the long irons?

 

You need to play the length of club that fits you, so if this requires the 3 and 4 to be more than 1/2 inch short then so be it. You want every club to fit right for length and each clubs individual lie angle.

Thanks again. I'll do some experimenting.

[J_Birdie]

so if I am 6'3" and 37.5 WTF

 

Would this be around where I would want my clubs? Also is there a way to statically fit for lie angle? My 5 iron LA is currently 62.5* or 1* UP from Cobra standard.

 

3 39.25

4 38.875

5 38.5

6 38.125

7 37.75

8 37.375

9 37

PW 36.625

GW 36.25

SW 35.875

 

I currently play 37" 9iron but a 39.25" 5 iron and a 36" SW. I was fit by Golfsmith last year when I bought my first set of clubs in September after being given clubs used by a 5'8" male haha (I am now 7 months into golf and at an 11 HDCP). I practice and play often. I have taken lessons. They fit me to +.75" over Cobra Fly-Z standard and 1* UP.

 

For reference I strike my 9-5i & woods/driver very well. I find my 4i @ 40" to be incredibly erratic. I think 39.25 is my 5i is the limit at which I can strike irons consistently (or its in my head).

 

I struggle with my SW-PW. I find I flip a lot with these clubs, definitely much more so with SW/GW. It creates really erratic gapping as I can carry my 9i 130 yards but sometimes I struggle to get my PW to 100 and my GW to 90.

 

Should I just play all my wedges at 36.75 or 37"? Any repercussions to this?

[TLT_Dan]

so if I am 6'3" and 37.5 WTF

 

Would this be around where I would want my clubs? Also is there a way to statically fit for lie angle? My 5 iron LA is currently 62.5* or 1* UP from Cobra standard.

 

3 39.25

4 38.875

5 38.5

6 38.125

7 37.75

8 37.375

9 37

PW 36.625

GW 36.25

SW 35.875

 

I currently play 37" 9iron but a 39.25" 5 iron and a 36" SW. I was fit by Golfsmith last year when I bought my first set of clubs in September after being given clubs used by a 5'8" male haha (I am now 7 months into golf and at an 11 HDCP). I practice and play often. I have taken lessons. They fit me to +.75" over Cobra Fly-Z standard and 1* UP.

 

For reference I strike my 9-5i & woods/driver very well. I find my 4i @ 40" to be incredibly erratic. I think 39.25 is my 5i is the limit at which I can strike irons consistently (or its in my head).

 

I struggle with my SW-PW. I find I flip a lot with these clubs, definitely much more so with SW/GW. It creates really erratic gapping as I can carry my 9i 130 yards but sometimes I struggle to get my PW to 100 and my GW to 90.

 

Should I just play all my wedges at 36.75 or 37"? Any repercussions to this?

 

I would set all 3 of your wedges to the same length and lie of 36.625 providing this feels correct.

Nothing wrong with matching the 3 wedges to the same length and lie as that of your 9 iron, except the swing weight may start to climb a bit high.

I am afraid you are still being pulled down - out of position - with the shorter wedges.

[texas_tom]

If I shorten a driver shaft by 1", and I want to make it a little stiffer, do I need to cut from both ends or just the butt end?

[pearsonified]

Bumping this thread after my fitting journey this summer.

 

Basically, I have determined that, for me, lie angle is the most important spec on my irons and wedges.

 

I find it interesting that Tom more or less doesn't even mention this in the OP, and he tends to give much more attention to length and weight whenever he talks about clubfitting.

 

Length and weight are clearly important variables, but if you are not working on a plane that suits your natural alignments, you're still going to experience a ton of problems even if you nail all the other variables.

 

IMO, lie angle gets very little attention because [1] it's very hard to fit (lie boards are worthless—ask any top 100 clubfitter), [2] it's a dependent variable (change the lie and you change the length), and [3] most fitters aren't going to bend clubs for you while testing.

 

(To be fair, length and lie are both dependent variables of one another. If you change the length, you aren't changing the actual lie angle, but you are changing the height of the hands, which can change the effective lie angle if that hand height is too high or too low for the golfer.)

 

Regarding the OP, Tom mentioned how lengths have gotten longer over the years. Lie angles have increased, too, but only by a small amount since the 1980s (woods have gotten WAY more upright, but irons have only gotten ~1º more upright).

 

The result is a double-whammy for hand height—average hand heights are up ~0.75" on irons and wedges. This may not sound like much, but it can literally be the difference between total planar comfort and never-ending issues at impact (steepening, inability to maintain spine angle, etc).

 

Now, perhaps it's true that these evolving specs actually fit today's golfers better than ill-fitting clubs of yesteryear...

 

Or perhaps it's true that specs have evolved to help golfers hit the ball straighter—or even draw the ball—when testing out new clubs...

 

Bottom line?

 

Lie angles are the most cumbersome spec to fit, and because of this, they are de-emphasized in fittings. I am of the opinion that nothing is more important than the lie angle; furthermore, I don't believe the tiny 1-2º lie angle window (during fittings) comes anywhere close to covering even a majority of golfers.

 

Think of it like this:

 

Given the massive differences in human anatomies (very tall, very short, long arms, short arms, long legs, short legs, fat, thin, etc), how likely does it seem that golf club specs fit into a tiny window of ±1" and ±2º of lie angle?

 

Heck, even fitted hats show a much larger fitting variance than golf clubs!

 

There's no easy answer to this issue. In my view, a true "fitting" is an ever-evolving process that you must undertake—and understand—as your golf game progresses.

 

**********

 

My own fitting journey has proven that, despite my "standard" anatomical measurements, I'm actually way off the charts as far as fittings go.

 

I like my irons and wedges 3-6º flat, depending on the club and length. I like my putters ~10º flat (close to 60º)! I have a hell of a lot more control over the club head with my hands very low at both address and impact.

 

And just for fun...

 

If I were to try and modify clubs with standard lie angles to suit my swing, I'd have to play everything -2" of standard! Even then, I'd still battle with club face control because I naturally deliver the club on a plane that is significantly more shallow than standard lie angles allow.

[Wherewereyouwhen]

This thread was created in 2012, when 5i loft was 28 or 27 degrees. Currently 5i are 25 and 6i are 28. Should we still take the 5i as the club to base all our measurements @tomwishon.

[5hort5tuff]

This thread was created in 2012, when 5i loft was 28 or 27 degrees. Currently 5i are 25 and 6i are 28. Should we still take the 5i as the club to base all our measurements @tomwishon.

 

I generally build a set based off the club i like or hit best. I use the 8 iron and go up or down from there.

 

OEMs are a whole different beast. They are now making clubs to go further and spin less. This isnt exactly a set design anyone should base their length on. I can't even imagine playing a 45.75" driver...

 

I find trial and error is a great way to fit for length. The 5i is typically not the club one should start with...